HowComeUdontBanMeAnymore said:

I don't claim to understand 23 anymore than I understand Prince, but it seams here he is trying to disscuss Prince as art, and your asking him to dumb down his writing? In my point of view, the basic thrust of the thread is that we as society understand that certain music should be seriously studied, and we don't seem to be doing that with Prince, even his fans (look at an average days threads in here if you don't beleive me) 23's wit can go for the jugular and he certainly doesn't need me sticking up for him, but I don't think he was trying to offend anyone here, just try to disscuss the man as art rather than a bubblegum act.

Number23 said:

You know I’ve caught a couple of your posts, and I’d really like to see you quantify your comments.

It’s time to put up!

Tell us why YOU, are the [only?] person that can “…truly understand Prince and what he is attempting to express with his projects”.

Feel free to add your OWN thoughts about “true art/defining the age/raping history to fertilize the future”.

I’m hoping you are able to rise to this challenge, because I would likely learn a little something. But I’m not holding my breath.

paintsprayer said:

Lovely set of darts you have there, pp. Nice aim too.

DuckPurple said:

Now that's the kind of playground psychology I like to see. Antagonism as bait.
Anyway, plucky young gunslinger, I'll structure this in a way you'll understand.

1) I neva eva say I undastud P.
2) All da thoughts abov ur mi own.
3) I fink ur to clozed off to actauli learn from anyon who may have somethin to pass on cuz doo to aroganc and blind self-regurd.

Hey man, I'm just kidding with you. Anything you want to discuss I'll be glad to do it through this thread or orgnotes or whatever your desired communication of choice may be. I might come across as overtly pretentious at times, but that's the way it comes out and why change?
I dont want to offend anyone, but it's interesting to actually see who is offended by this thread. I'm just throwing monkeys at typewriters here. But the topic certainly seems to have sparked debate, which is what I intended. My own personal opinions don't really matter just now. I just like watching the show.

.
[Edited 10/17/04 16:16pm]

paintsprayer said:

No.. Im asking 23 to find an appropriate level of discourse that would fit a message board of this sort.
If you truly are a smart person you would know to deliver your message clear and to the point.
I am sure 23 has many intersting views on this subject, but unfortunately the message gets lost in the form.

You've been drinking again, haven't you 23!

HowComeUdontBanMeAnymore said:

Sometimes the point is in the way it is written, and not the other way around, I usually find them interesting, or at least amusing.

doctormcmeekle said:

Please, DON'T listen to HowComeYouDon'tCallMe....she is one of the people you describe so well in your original post. Trust me. She may have a "nice ass" to some, but she's not got much upstairs and she's not a particularly nice person.

To address your topic - and frankly, I don't care how arrogant this sounds - I wholeheartedly agree with your statement and I don't think your writing skills are SO ingenious anyway as to be better than or cloud what you're really saying. HCUDCM is just drawing attention to her own bimbosity.

It's true, most people know SHIT about "art" or "real music" on this site. This place used to be a lot better when people like giotto, boris and langebleu posted more often. But now, the Prince forum is filled with dipshits who currently make this place compete with the NPGMC for banality. And I don't care how arrogant that sounds, either, because I don't care for everyone to get along as a united ORG -- it won't happen and it is one of the things that thankfully makes this place that little bit better than the NPGMC. I'm not trying to spread negativity, just stating "my truth".

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[Edited 10/17/04 16:55pm]

mrdespues said:

I've always liked you, mrdespues. I also think my writing style is a pot of pish. But I'm very, very young and I'm willing to learn.

Number23 said:

thanks.



is that sarcasm I detect?

mrdespues said:

Number23 said:[quote]

DuckPurple said:

I dig what you are saying.
And I appreciate your attempt to promote a deeper level of discussion.

But you seem to be making accusations without giving anything of yourself. Does this make sense?

Let me be more specific:
* You attack the “tastes” of fellow orgers
* You question their interest in “true art….”
* You question their ability (intellect) to “truly understand Prince and what he is attempting to express…”

And you did all three of these things without providing any insight as to how YOU may be above the same accusations.

It’s simple. Explain:
* WHY their tastes is so bad
* WHY you don’t think they are interested in “true art…” and WHY it matters
* WHY they lack the intellect to “truly understand Prince….”
* AND WHY you are any better?

Right now…it looks like it’s just all talk.

I’m a new member…I came here to try to learn a little more about an artist I truly admire.
But I’m not learning anything, I’m just hearing people bitch.

Rather than complaining about their intellect, try educating them/me.
Again…I won’t hold my breath.

Number23 said:

this is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read. you bash langauge's ability to convey meaning by...USING LANGUAGE! if language can't convey meaning, than what does the nonsense you wrote mean?

fine, practice what you preach and convey your nonsene without language. that's right, you can't!

of course the word "red" exists independent from the color, just like the word "tree" exists independent of any vertical stump covered in bark with branches and leaves, but can be used to describe every tree you'll ever see and will keep you from needing a different word for every one of those trees.

language is the most glaring and brilliant example the minds ability to express our sense of wonder, observe and reflect upon the world around us, from the mere color red to Prince's music. it is the human mind and language that is inexblicable, not the color red. Is it safe to assume you are more amazed by a basic compound such as water than the human mind?

time to start studying the history of language and its impact on human existence and stop spending so much time on worthless Prince discussions. your entire post was self indulgent, contradictory and specious. of course you'll probably blame language for not conveying what you meant accurately as opposed to analyzing the faulty thoughts they merely conveyed...accurately, as language tends to.

Number23 said:

so true

dumbass said:

Couldn't agree more..
I study linguistics at the university, and that particular sentence you quoted from 23 is so contradictory and pseudo philosophical that I would be laughed out of any course if I even attempted to state something similar
Nice try though 23; I see where you coming from (or rather what books you didn't read or are reading to fast), but you gotta get your shit together if the content of your words are to match the form.

HowComeUdontBanMeAnymore said:

Not neccessarily true. Art can aspire for commercial greatness if its the commercial success which makes up part of that art in the first place.

I dont think Lovesexy was meant to be a musical peice of art on its own. I think the Lovesexy project was meant to be all things combined. The art of Lovesexy was the whole idea, and part of that idea was the success of the project commercially. It needed the commercial success for the rest of the project to work - The live show was more than just the live music, it was pure theatre, it was fantasy and, in it's message it was meant as a life changing experience.

Prince had gone through spiritual/artistic change and he wanted to share that very change publicly. Everything surrounding Lovesexy was about that change, and commercial success was definately aspired to just as much as musical integrity...

Everything surrounding Lovesexy is art, including the commercial success. Whether everyone understood the art is another question, but if you look beyond the album and see the whole era in its entirety you will see the art crosses all kinds of barriers accross the board. Some may say it was too diverse, but I think WB messed the idea up in the end restricting Prince in what he could and couldnt do...

Musicology for example takes on a completely different guise artistically. The art surrounding this particular project also incorporates commercial desire, but it is less about the whole idea as its concept and a little smaller in its ambition and what is being conveyed.

Most Prince projects take on a different slant and the art behind them is very different. But I think commercial success is always going to be an aspect of the art for as long as the measurement of accessibility is tied to it. The internet and online music club has tried to that, which is just another aspect of the art.

I dont claim to understand Prince or his art, and no one but him truly can. But im having a great time trying to figure it out. Because there is no doubt that as soon as I think I have figured it out, something happens that changes my view and I have to start again... And that is what art is about...

Hey Jon,
I tend to agree with you, but try to quote the right person next time

Jon said:

This is exactly the type of response this this was intended to provoke. Level-headed, incisive and intelligently worded. I really enjoyed reading that, Jon.

dumbass said:

.
[Edited 10/18/04 4:13am]

Excellent post! I couldn't have said it any better myself. By the way, I noticed you said you are a new member. Welcome to the org.
[Edited 10/18/04 8:21am]

vainandy said:

No, you couldn't.

THEY don't but as long as they njoy whatever it is they njoy...

...isn't that all that matters?

That's because I'm just a poor dumb little old Prince fan that does not "get it". I'm not "level-headed, incisive, or intellegent" enough to word it in such a superior "artsy" fashion that you would prefer.

vainandy said:

At least we agree on something, andy.

Alright Number23---

I’ve basically called you out twice on this topic, the very thread you began, and all I’m hearing are the crickets.

I contend you like nothing more than to watch people squabble. Though you appear naturally articulate, you are unable to contribute in any meaningful way to this discussion.

You questioned our taste, and challenged our interest in Art, as well as our intellect. Yet when questioned about your own ability to fall under the same scrutiny, you fail to provide any meaningful response.

How Say You?

I love the way Number 25 has deliberately avoided answering DuckPurple's response, which, personally I find far more "level-headed, incisive and intellegent" than the pretentious (and ridiculously flawed) drivel Number 25 spouted in his initial thread.

For the record, as a proud Michael Jackson fan, I find a hell of a lot more true artistry in tracks like Who Is It, Morphine and Stranger In Moscow than anything Prince has made post-1989.

That's my personal taste and does not make me less musically intellectual because I think so. If you believe otherwise then you're an arrogant snob.

But then what is "snob?" Does it really exist outside the confines of social... Oh fuck it... I can't even joke about it, it's so fucking pretentious.

DuckPurple said:

What was the question again?

Number23 said:

U're certainly refering to semiotics aren't u?

Number23 said:

have a scrap!