Hey

Most of us might remember back in 2000 when there was serious talk of a
Prince & The Revolution re-union and when push came to shove Prince had
-according to Wendy- sent her a message that she was to publicly denounce
her homosexuality and embrace the JW faith before a reunion could happen.

Wendy than said that she felt sorry for him and kind of had to mourn him
because in a way, he was lost to us.

So, in all fairness I don't see Wendy denouncing her sexuality nor do I see
her embracing JW faith any time soon.

So then, what made him perform "Reflection" on TV together with Wendy??

And why the "white black straight gay christian muslim" line in United States
Of Division? A song, which likely has huge Wendy involvement since there
was talk of a song they recorded together the same day they performed on
the Tavis Smily show. A new song.

Listening to "United States Of Division" it sounds a lot like a song that she
has a hand in. Heck, I can even distinguish her on backing vocals.



So what's up with his JW faith now?

It's pretty weird but I think that he's backpeddling on some of the more
severe shit he used to say a while ago.

Remember, this is still Prince and altho he might put on a lot of make up
this is one leopard that can't hide his spots for too long.

After 40 years of sharing a beautiful vision of equality, spirituality in God
as well as in Sex and mutual Love -spiced up with some raunchy stuff at
times, I find it hard to believe that he could not only convert to JW faith
but also completely abandon all his former beliefs.

We're talking about 40 year's worth of conditioning of the kind you don't
forget that easily. If you were a solitary, unknown John Doe, well then you
might be able to surpress your own self and your memories and the things
you stood for all along.

But not if you're Prince. With your back catalogue, with all your songs and
all your concerts, video's, interviews, public affairs, etc etc etc.

You cannot sever yourself that easily from what you used to be. Especially
not if you're an internationally known icon who wants to continue his "job"
and try to intertwine his newfound faith with his old practices.

It still seems to me that Graham came at exactly the right moment when
Prince was most vulnerable: when his child had just died.

Prince being the cloistered recluse that he is, who built his own little world
in many ways just like MJ did must have been overwhelmed by the fact
that he now had a wife, a child and had to deal with all these factors that
went way above and beyond him. Real life was seeping into his own world
and then it just flooded and floored him.

His child died, he was accused by former employees, his marriage started
to shake and then enters Larry Graham. By no means a bad man, don't
get me wrong, but surely a bad influence on Prince imo.

It was yet another escape. Where his former beliefs might have left him
feeling betrayed or abandoned, he must have thought that in a way he
was being punnished for the things he did and used to stand for.

Hey, even normal people are prone to think like that -even the ones that
don't live half their life in dedication to love and god and sex.

I guess it's all been a way of trying to redeem himself and of trying to
find answers that weren't present in his former beliefs.

But, like all beliefs it is likely to throw up many more questions than it
will answer.

However, like I said at the beginning of this post, his performance with
Wendy on national TV made me think again.

Why would he do that? There was no real need for it at the time was there?

Now, "United States Of Division" and it's (old Princely) lyrics is another
hint that the tide might be [ever so slightly] changing again.

But then, I also read that on the recent tour he talked to a group of fans
at an afterparty and even went to his limo to get JW pamflets and handed
them out to the small crowd before he left.

yeah its a theory that the whole JW thing came as prince needed something, cos theres also the thing about him attempting suicide at this time too.

i imagine around 2000 he sent wendy that message just to put her off, i mean, i doubt he wanted to do a reunion anyway even if she did renounce, but it does seem he went into it wholeheartedly and that was at its most horrible and extreme.

i dont know if his views are changing on certain things though, more that hes just not preaching as much, he still said that thing about womens roles at a recent press conference.

as for performing with wendy, one person on the org insisted it was cos mike scott couldnt come out to play the guitar at that point, and prince bumped into wendy in a studio or something and asked her, so it was all coincedence, but obviously shes guested on stage several times since then.

i dont necessarily think the JW is a bad thing for prince in relation to his mental health, and to alot of people we're still getting good music, TRC and NEWS (dont bother witha debate, some love it some dont!), and to me about half of musicology is really really good.

if you listen to ONA live, isnt there a line where he starts preaching about all religions and we should focus on our similarities and not our differences? cos thats not very intolerant at all and that was at the height of his preachiness wasnt it?

Mike wasn't able to make it

'Cause he's a 46-year old man who can do what he wants.

Interesting thread.

Extremely well-written.

Not surprising coming from you, Isten.

IstenSzek said:

Why is it upsetting, or incompatible with him being open and free like he used to, for him to want to share his current beliefs with fans in the form of a pamphlet? I'm not a Witness, nor will I ever be one, but I wouldn't be offended if he handed me a Watchtower. I can choose to read it or not, and I can do what I like with the information I find inside.

This is just my opinion, but I think back then, Prince was still a "baby" in his newfound religion, and frequently new religious converts see things in black and white... either you are for them or against them.
It is just part of the process of shedding the old life and embracing the new. I know people who when they became born again, went to the other extreme... pratically hated people who did not share their religious views and was almost smug that they were in some sort of elite club and the rest of us were heathens. Then as time passes, those people learn that don't have to condemn, or harshly judge others just to prove how christian they are. They learn tolerance and are secure in their convictions so that not speaking out against someone else who is different is not a reflection of friend's committment.
I think Prince went thru something similar and is now seasoned enough to allow tolerance of others who think differently.

softandwet said:

I missed this.. what is women's roles according to Prince?

FunkMistress said:

prodigalfan said:

1000% co-sign. I've seen this in others, and it's true.

OdysseyMiles said:

It's definitely a common phenomenon. Well-put, prodigal.

prodigalfan said:

That's a very good explanation. I like that, it seems very plausible.

Because, as I tried to explain with the pamphlet thing, he is still a
JW for obvious reasons but he seems to have become a lot more
tolerant -like the Prince of old- about some things he spoke about
with some scorn when he first became a JW.

So yes, your explanation seems to hit the mark!

thanx.

OdysseyMiles said:

Incontheivable!

Good essay, IstenSzek. Haven't got a single answer for you but still a good question!

FunkMistress said:

Reading back my initial post I can see why you misunderstood what I was trying to say.
It is in no way a bad thing that he would want to share his current beliefs with his fans,
or even to talk to them about it.

What I meant to say is that, on the one hand he seems to become more appreciative
of things he used to condemn and somehow seemed the "old" Prince again in many ways.
And then this pamphlet thing kind of made it all too clear again that he is still very much
a JW.

Come to think of it, indeed, it isn't such a bad thing at all. We still got very good music,
as someone else pointed out above. Plus he seems very very happy at the moment.

I don't know, I gues Prince just got to me a bit by becoming so extreme a while ago. Here
he was, the man that had preached love, honesty, peace and harmony for so long, covered
in a nice hot chocolate sauce with a porn cherry on top LOL.

And all of a sudden he's off the deep end. It was just a bit much to wrap your head around.
On the one hand we were thinking "That's all just bs, he's not a JW at all. It's just Tabloids"
and then the cursewords were cut even from old material on the npgmc. etc etc etc.

Still, I just hope that he's tested his own limits now and will be a more relaxed and happy
man for it. That way, we're a bit more in the picture again of what to expect.

Like people say, he's 46 and has a right to do whatever he wants to. And that's 100% true.
But, this is also a man who'se career I followed for 16 years now and I'd just like to know
what's up with him and how come he's changed his mindset so abruptly.

It has nothing to do with being over-obsessed fan or something since I don't start this
kind of topic every day. Not even every month

But there are so many people here on the org who've got interesting things to say that I
just like to throw up a ball sometimes and see what the reactions are and how other fans
think about stuff.

Pfffff.

Now, back to the MUSIC

FunkMistress said:

OdysseyMiles said:

if this is what's happening it would be excellent!!

prodigalfan said:

I perceive it the same way.

XxAxX said:

XxAxX,
This happens with a lot of new JWs (not all). They get really fired up with zeal
and may offend some by coming on too strong. It takes a little time to find the right balance between their newfound faith and their own personality.
It appears as though Prince has calmed down a bit and learned to pick his spots, so to speak.

Posted on www.hiphopmusic.com February 13, 2004 01:43 PM | TrackBack:

Prince Fans, Brace Yourselves

It's heart attack time. Wendy and Lisa's website reports that Prince finally made that phone call:

eye on the Tavis Smiley Show on PBS, and you'll see Wendy and Prince playing guitars together and singing a song!! They taped it today... Feb. 12th so check it out!! what could be more amazing!?!?!?! .... welllll... maybe if the Revolution.... oh nevermind! " I'm told it is scheduled to air Feb. 19th.

?uestlove also has the inside scoop on it, from his sessions with my future wife (as soon as we her pesky husband out of the way) Nikka Costa:

cat is outta the bag? i really really wanted to dry snitch this.... but damn.... i got beat to it. p came by the nikka sessions. nikka revealed that wendy's studio was next door tommorow came and wendy called nikka all excited about who called her today--a person whom she hasn't spoken to in 9 years. and that he called her to do an acoustic set in LA that is that shit. i was told not to tell--but i guess y'all know now.

Fans have been hoping the recent reunion of the Revolution, sans Prince, at this benefit show would plant a seed in the little big man's mind.. could the unthinkable be happening? My sources also report that that Bobby Z, Wendy and her twin sister Susannah were present at Prince's House of Blues grammy afterparty.. And we know Prince is slated to perform at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ceremonies, not to mention rumors of an aftershow that night. COULD IT BE???

Either way, an acoustic performance from P and Wendy should be pretty damn amazing.

February 13, 2004 02:35 PM | TrackBack

It might be time to nominate Nikka Costa for a nobel prize. Not only did she evidently play a role in reuniting Prince and Wendy (see previous post), but according to ?uestlove she helped to bring him back together with D'Angelo. Here is the scene ?uest reenacted on okayplayer, between himself, James Poyser, Nikka, Wendy, and D:

nikka: ahmir, come here one sec... (i leave drum booth)
nikka: ahmir....meet wendy...

?uesto: blahblahablalaahlablasblsdlahlhdl ,asdlaslalajdljald.....

wendy: (lols)---wow....it is such a pleasure!

?uesto: liar!

wendy: no for real....such a fan of yours

?uesto: huh?!?...i mean....

james: hahahahahaha

?uesto:i.....i.....i (think the retarded kid and bus driver in bernie mac's standup routine)....i.....i

james: breathe in....


?uesto:....i .....i...i mean....look---it gets on my nerves when a cat tries to go all over the top by singing the most obscure shit on my album. so i will spare you all the "erocia" talk and just say that i love you to death

nikka: dont feel bad ahmir.....i once sang the whole first side of "fruit at the bottom" to them when i first met them....

wendy: (lols)

?uesto: see....i'd get damn near stalkerish.....i got all the "Crossing Jordan" bootle---

wendy: GASP!!! NOBODY WAS SUPPOSED TO KNOW ABOUT THAT!!!! (lol).....

?uesto: awww man i cannot believe this----i gotta cal


james: what?!!?!?!?!?


?uesto: nothing!


james: do it man!!!!


?uesto: no man!!!


nikka: do what?


james: call d'a--


?uesto: okay okay okay okay already! (dials phone---second it rings.....throws it to james)


james: yo d? you there?

d: (!!!!!)


james: sup man!

d: (!!!!!)

james: yeah man....hey i got somebody you should talk to....hang on

wendy: hello?

d

wendy: who's this?

d:.

wendy: oh....mike...(offphone to ?uesto: mike?)

d??

wendy: this is wendy

d


wendy: yes wendy

d???!??!??!???!!!


wendy: yes....wendy "yes, lisa" wendy...

d:!!!!! [exclamation points edited for space]

wendy: but who is this?

d:....

wendy: mike.....

?uesto: man--tell that fool to tell you what his MIDDLE name is

wendy: okay michael....what is your middle name?

nikka (whispering to wendy)

wendy: gasp?!?!? oh my god! is this DANGELO?!?!?!?.....um...can i have your babies?

room: lol!!!!!

wendy gushed (yes prince heads she is still fine)

...nikka took the phone next...and then

(cue dragnet horns)

we talked, bickered, cried, and most importantly...made plans to come back stronger than ever.

friends again.

So you can pretty much thank Nikka Costa for reuniting Wendy with Prince.
[Edited 10/6/04 12:41pm]

Read my sig, from Prince himself in an interview in August.

wow that was so random, but THANKS Nikka!
Shes the best!

Hey Jestyr, thanks for that info. Very cool to read.

Wonderful thread. I love your writing style, IntenSzek

Isten, GOOD 2 c u again. It's been a LONG time!

As 4 ur ?uestion: no matter how far he appears 2 b gone, he always returns "home" sooner or later. Do u remember the feeling u got receiving those "letters" from a far away friend each year as u grew up?

Well, ur friend's still writing...

Correct me if I am wrong....but I thought P got into the JW at the request of his dying mother?? He had just lost his dad and 6 months later his mom, plus what was going on in his own personal life. I was under the impression that he sought after LG per his mom.

OdysseyMiles said:

ok. this is really comforting, and to know that the church is flexible enough to accomodate individuality like this in its members is also really good news. i'm really, really glad he got back together with wendy after all. it's heartening

Yes Isten, wonderful thread and very well written! I've wondered about every one of your points myself also.

Ahhhh..... Prince is playing with Wendy, and Isten is back in outstanding form.

Both were missed, both were long overdue, and as a fan of both I hope Prince keeps playing with Wendy, and Isten keeps posting his great material.

And like prodigalfan, I think Prince is growing in his faith, and able to see beyond the strict black and white judgments.

Anji said:

that is so cool of you to remember that!

and you're right, you're so very right.