DorothyParkerWasCool... true! i agree

I haven't seen the newspaper story - I wonder if it is quoted in full - because I did see the TV newscast referred to and not only did they show:
"... Jewish Council chairman David Zwartz..." who saw the vid as "...rather superficial"
TV3 also showed a member of NZ Muslim community who said he was glad these issues were being presented in such a popular medium - this is not an exact quote, but something to that effect anyway... and they quoted a Prince representative as saying Prince wants the issues to be discussed ...and I guess that's what we are doing right here.

i remember when the new npgmc site was opened one of the comments on it was saying how good a film whalerider was.it was in "The digital Garden section.
i personally think Prince has fucked up this time with such a controversial video that does(at first) seem to glamorise the life of a suicide bomber.

just my opinion.

or maybe not glamorise it
wrong choice of words

newpowerlove said:

Good job...I hate when artists start explaining their lyrics....it is lame.

Hey this is good.
Good for Keisha can't wait to see the video clip here in New Zealand.

I hope she encouraged Prince to come tour here.
Come on Bloody New Zealand!!!

I think Prince is raising the question in the video that if you are picked on and treated cruelly often enough and long enough, you can eventually become what you've been repeatedly accused of being. If a child in school is constantly picked on and made fun of, they eventually begin "hating", their self-worth hits rock bottom and violence can be the step to follow after that. I use Columbine as an example. Let's face it. Most people can be really cruel to one another. Another example: If you're told over and over by people that you're "crazy", you begin to question why people keep saying that about you. Is something wrong with you? Next thing you know, you begin having mental problems and difficulty dealing with reality. It messes with your head. If you're strong enough, you can overcome it without it snowballing, like the girl in the video obviously did. If the hate festers and grows, you can become a "terrorist" no matter what race, color or creed you are. Again, I refer to Columbine. IMO, the whole point of the video is to say, stop jumping to conclusions based on how people look and what you "perceive" them to be anndddd, a little kindness, tolerance and accepting differences in people everywhere can do more than any politician, government, etc. could hope to.

OdysseyMiles said:

Exactly

darladee said:

and there it is. Well, what I believe the "intention" of the video is.

I dont think it's meant to be a blueprint on how to make a terrorist.

OdysseyMiles said:

yeah i understand that sucks. i'm sorry cat stevens was denied entry because of a misspelling of his name and i'm sorry the patriot act was passed after 9/11 and that homeland security is a priority instead of education.

but let's separate the events of 9/11 from the way george bush's corrupt administration has handled the situation since then.

9/11 was a sneak attack on the american people made by religious freaks who died in order to destroy the american way of life.

you see, because of prince's conversion to jehovah and the connection between fanatic religious sects and the events of 9/11 i've been waiting for prince to address 9/11 since it occurred and now he comes out with this type of commentary?????

basically stating let's feel sorry for people of color?

it just seems simplistic to me, and i'm stunned he never addressed WHY 9/11 happened. nothing at all about the dangers of belonging to a fundamental religious sect, a sect that separates people by claiming to have the one true way to heaven and demands that those who cannot be converted, die instead to please god.

this was a core element of what happened and all prince has to say is 'let's feel sorry for people of color because since 9/11 they've been discriminated against'??""

ok. if that's what he has to say ..
[Edited 10/5/04 4:47am]

XXAXX, ur vision is blurred.

IF u were less prejudiced, u would realise there is more good than bad 2 the statement n ?uestion.

It's transparent u ONLY c what u have convinced urself 2 c...ironic, no?!

XxAxX said:

Why are you looking to Prince for some sort of explanation? Everybody knows why 9/11 happened. Everybody knows who the perpetrators were and what they represented. Prince made his statement based on current events, not what's in the past. To say that "Prince wants everyone to feel sorry for people of color" is a very narrow-minded way to take the song.
When you think about it, the song is really urging all people to simply respect one another.

XxAxX said:

Did u not read the post before yours? Anyways, great to see P provoking an interesting debate on this site.

Snap said:

I appreciate your point but do u really think there is just 'one religious group that is persecuting all others...'? If u read 'Islam' for 'terrorist' then how do u think those in Iraq and Palestine are reading 'American' and 'Israeli' ?

Anji said:

no, it's not what i've convinced myself to see. i'm asking about prince's reasoning behind making the video, which is likely more of a question than any person on this board could handle answering. .. i guess i'm not making myself clear.

the video is cool. it has a fairly straightforward message (as straightforward as can be expected from prince, anyway) that people should treat each other kindly as we are all human beings no matter what color. it seems to make the point that people who seen as terrorists and are treated as terrorists, can become terrorists or become more likely to behave as a terrorist. therefore we should never treat anyone as a terrorist, but as a human being.

okay this is kindergarten stuff, very simplistic.

assuming this is the message of the video, what i'm asking is why prince would choose to leave out any comment whatsoever on the part that religion played and is playing today, as far as the terrorist activities that are happening in the world today. religious intolerance is an important part of the key to understanding what's happened.

why doesn't the video address this at all?
if prince has chosen to make a terrorist act the focus of the video, then how can he overlook the religious element that is motivating the terrorists of today?? is he ignorant of the fact that radical, militant sects of the muslim faith are blowing the hell out of people because they are not muslim?



or maybe the problem really is me. i'm actually expecting prince to be balanced, informed and sensible as far as current events are concerned. expecting his work to be representative of a reasoning mind . ..
ooops. y'all are right.
my bad huh. my expectations of prince are and always have been a little unrealistic.

vivid said:

see this is what i mean. this is my point. religion, not skin color or man's inhumanity to man, seems to be at the root of todays' terrorist acts.

why not address the fact that different religions all think they have the one true way to god and simultaneously deny other religions any claim to the truth? why not speak on the fact that jihad is being committed against christians who are considered to be evil by certain sects of the muslim religion?

this is asking too much of today's prince, ain't it?

OdysseyMiles said:

i AM talking about events of today. i'm wondering why prince has chosen not to spoeak on how religious intolerance is the key issue regarding terrorism today

XxAxX said:

Maybe it's because he has a different point of view. You can't expect him to see and then describe things exactly the way you see them. I think this is what's causing issues with some people here. I don't think "Cinnamon Girl" was meant to sum up the entire terrorism situation and what it means to everyone.
It's a simple song with a simple message, not a State of the Union address.

OdysseyMiles said:

right. point taken. prince's message is quite simple indeed.

so i won't even go into the religious significance of the 5:5 on his forehead or how ironic that he counters muslim extremists with a christian message, thereby demonstrating to the underlying conflict without addressing it. ..

i'm sorry i said a word of criticism. ain't my project at all. it's prince's and he can do what he wants. lovely video, it is. quite colorful and lovely
[Edited 10/5/04 10:57am]

XxAxX said:

Odyssey is correct. The problem is that Prince is an artist. He's not running for President. Just because he writes a song and makes a video about a social issue doesn't mean that he's now obligated to write a thesis and develop a nuanced party platform on the root causes of world terrorism.

Doesn't mean that you can't criticise the video though. Your opinion is what it is.

.
[Edited 10/5/04 11:45am]

Universaluv said:

(good to see you!)

OdysseyMiles said:

back atcha!

Everybody at the club freaked
When I stepped from the limousine
They said - "Ooh, it's good to see ya"
I said - "Oh, it's good to be seen
You know what I mean?"

XXAXX, ur PREJUDICE 2 belittle those who have chosen a path in subjection 2 GOD is directing ur need 2 find fault BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY...

there was NO mission statement xpressing an intent 2 provide the ENTIRE rationale on the motivating factors bhind terrorism. the DIRECTION simply focuses on the GOOD that religion can do and the BAD that religious intolerance can cause.

Universaluv said:

yes i know. or even make it a balanced, realistic look

Anji said:

where did you see this part of the video?

this is my criticism, i didn't see anything at all in the video which addresses the evil of religious intolerance which, is what we're dealing with in the world today


btw where'd you come up with this interpretation of what i've been saying here: "XXAXX, ur PREJUDICE 2 belittle those who have chosen a path in subjection 2 GOD is directing ur need 2 find fault BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY..."

cause that's a steaming pile of crap, anj. my comments on prince's video have nothing to do with condemnation of people who have chosen to subject themselves to god

I have only seen the video twice,however I think you are all missing the point they were trying to make. I feel that the video is showing that people subject to racism, abuse etc try and change their situation. When Keisha is in the airport there is chaos going on around her as witnessed by the family arguing. She is subject to passport checks etc and is frustrated or dismayed by how she is being perceived. The red button/detonator is not an act of terrorism as witnessed by the reversing of the explosion. The pressing of the button is the desire to change things. After the explosion is reversed, the airport scene is calm and the family is getting along. So it is not about people being repressed becoming terrorists, it is about how people who are repressed hope and pray for things to change. Some people take things into their hands and make positive changes or negative changes-such as terrorists. But the common thing is that they have the desire for change and Keisha has the desire for things to go back to the way they were.

So-called "FRIENDS" turning on one another and the "AMERICANISATION" of life due 2 the fear of victimisation. These r but 2 xamples of the "BAD that religious intolerance can cause" as mplied by the DIRECTION.

4 a reminder of ur PREJUDICED viewpoint, XXAXX, this is what u said elsewhere...

"it's like he wants to reduce the problem to a 'racism' type level, when in fact terrorism is strongly grounded in differences of religious theologies. i suppose that because he's joined a strong religious movement that actively seeks to convert others and promulgates the belief that all other religions are wrong, prince can't really focus on that particular element of terrorism, now can he"

XXAXX, it's nigh mpossible NOT 2 notice how u seethe n ANGER at Prince since his religious CONversion. u ONLY seek evidence 2 support ur preCONceived notion of what Prince stands 4 nowadays. Like eye said b4, ur vision is blurred.

Anji said:

i stand by what i said. let me rephrase it so it makes sense to you in light of my comments about the video. and this is the last time i'll make this point, so as not to totally jack the thread and force the mods to move it into the dreaded P&R forum

i'm not denouncing prince's belief system - i defend his right to worship as he chooses even though i disagree with a lot of the JW organization's doctrine

the reason i'm a bit disappointed in the cinnamon girl video is because it clean shies away from addressing the root cause of many of the terrorist acts being committed in the world today - religious intolerance

in order for the video to address that particular issue honestly, prince might have had to actually think about the issue of religious tolerance, the idea that we should worship as we choose and respect others' right to do the same, maybe even allow for the possibility that many different paths lead to god.

that might mean that he'd have to acknowledge that going door to door and preaching to jewish people might be a tad annoying to said jewish people. it might mean he'd have to actually question whether or not the watchtower society is really the voice of god, he might have to admit that there are as many paths to god as there are people and that, quite possibly, no one religious organization has alll the answers.

he might have had to question the path he's on, if he'd included the issue of religious intolerance, or even addressed it, in the video.

but instead we see him with matthew 5:5 on his forehead (christian doctrine). in a way, that message in itself, IS the cause of terrorist acts happening today - the lack of religious universality, the idea that ONLY ONE religion has the truth, the path to god, and other religions are 'wrong'

this is why wars have been and are being fought - devout religious zealots are out there forcing their version of the 'word' on those who follow another spiritual path. in the case of terrorism in many cases it's muslim extremists. (obviously other factors are involved, local politics, societal woes, etc.)

i just find it ironic that he displays a christian message regarding violence with an underlying cause of religious intolerance.

can you even see my point?

XXAXX, eye c ur point of view but it is FUNDAMENTALLY flawed n the assumption that u pertain 2 no what Prince's bliefs r. U DON'T...

N spite of u NOT knowing, u have been projecting an entirely NEGATIVE outlook on what these bliefs MAY b based on ur preCONceived notion of what a JW is "xpected" 2 blieve.

Furthermore, ur PREJUDICE is guiding how u seek evidence 2 support what u INcorrectly claim. This has MORE 2 do with UR own hang-ups, and less 2 do with Prince's.

Eye rest my case.

at least prince is newsworthy in new zealand!!it makes a change from all the nz hiphop which is bloody terrible!