Remember that line from FACE DOWN?

I can't help but think it's sort of neat that Prince is actually highlightling so much of his 90's output that it seemed was surpressed by the record industry... I'd be willing to bet "dollars to donuts" that a significant percentage of NPGMC membership consists of people that didn't get to experience much of the music being featured in the listening rooms.

And too, can anyone really say with a straight face that albums like "New Power Soul" or "Emancipation" are so inferior to other better selling albums that Prince has given us? I believe much of the dissing of his work during the "symbol years" is based more so on marketing concerns -- because the creativity is still very evident to me.

I guess I should of called this thread "I appreciate New Power Soul, how about you?"

Peace

i can say with a very straight face that NPS and emancipation are inferior to many of prince's albums, regardless of sales. then again, i think come and the gold experience are better than many of prince's more popular and "legendary" albums. and i know people will disagree with me on that. it's all subjective to the tastes of the listener.

i will agree with you on this, however - much of prince's 90s output could have been made far more successful with better marketing by warner bros. - still and all, as mercurial as he was about his own work during the 80s and 90s, it couldn't have been easy to promote his work.

I don't only just appreciate New Power Soul, I LOVE it!!!!! I've been blasting it today while cleaning the house and its on now...."Mad Sex" just started. I was thinking today, I STILL don't understand the flack NPS gets. I know all of the arguments, I've heard them all before: "oh its a party album, nothing more", "its all fake plastic drumming", "prince did it in his sleep", "its filler".....and lots more. Whatever.

In my opinion I think Prince's creativity is very heavy on the cd....actually I think its one of his weirder cds and I say that in a GOOD way. As far as the drums go...so what if they are programmed or fake drums? So was half of the Revolutions stuff and that Linn drum we all love. Has the NPS haters ever heard Bjork? Especially some of her new stuff? Heck, most of her new stuff doesn't even have drums, its just sampled pecks, spits, and computer blips. And who can put down Bjorks creativity?

NPS rocks!!! And so does Emancipation for that matter!
[Edited 9/16/04 9:35am]

Emancipation and New Power Soul always get, unfairly, dogged on around here. A good deal of people are biased towards the earlier Prince albums and when Prince doesn't give them what they expect (the MPLS sound) they don't like it.

It's like how George Lucas has updated Star Wars with better special effects, but all those fans can do is bitch and moan because it's "not what they grew up with". Also, in many ways the new Star Wars movie a superior to the older ones, but due to nostalgia a good deal of fans will never admit it. Just like Prince fans.

Prince's new stuff is arguably as good as his older material, but because Emancipation wasn't a movie/album that came out in their formative years, they aren't as impacted by it. It's not that Prince's creative power has diminished, it's that as you grow older you become more picky and cynical.

I totally agree with Anxiety.

It's got nothing to do with marketing or success. IMO Emancipation and NPS just aren't up to
the same standard as most of Prince's other albums. It's difficult to put my finger on, but it's
to do with their 'sound'. There's a certain 'generic bland r&b-ness' to Prince's sound that was
introduced on these albums (and unfortunately has remained to a certain extent ever since).

The sonic playing field was narrowed on Emancipation. Had these songs been commited to
tape even 2 years earlier, I'm sure the results would have been far more adventurous and
challenging. Unfortunately, Emancipation seemed to iron out most of the diversity on the
album, making everything quite samey. Potentially vibrant and eclectic music seemed to
all meet at a kind of inoffensive middle-ground, and the end result was fairly unsatisfying.

Well WB had given up with P since all the contract arguements were in full flow for a number of years. In fact they said that they were extracting everything they could out of him before they canceled his contract, one of the main reasons for the Hits/B-Sides was that 'extraction'. So its no wonder that the albums didn't get the right marketing as WB would have seen him as a lost cause. It is shame that it all happened in many ways, but thats just how things turned out whether people feel for better or worse. And yes I think Emancipation is a great album also

skywalker said:

5...4...3...2... I believe if Emancipation would have been released in 1987 (instead of Sott) it would have regarded as one of his best.

slm4m said:

I doubt that...there was too much mediocre stuff on it. Nothing too adventurous...and it was quite angry. SOTT really has no skippers.

slm4m said:

That's a load of tosh and you know it.

People would have shit themselves if "Face Down" or "Joint 2 Joint" came out in '87.

skywalker said:

Yes, but they didn't. Prince and rap have never quite mixed, and "Face Down" is yet another clear example. Besides, it's dull and there's no melody, no matter the year.
And "Joint to Joint" stands out for me on "Emancipation", but mainly because
a) it's just plain weird, and
b) not much else does stand out.
But again, it's just a weird, long track. By no means a great "song", and frankly would have been regarded as filler on "Sign O' the Times". It would have become the one track on that album that everyone would always skip over.

Emancipation ryhmes with constipation.


Coincidence... I think not.


Terrible... Just terrible.

I mean, Face Down, Joint to Joint, Holy River, Sex in the Summer are great, but the rest sounds like the ugly musical lovechild of Prince and John Tesh... Blandness...

At least NPS was going for a certain vibe and style. I don't know what the heck P. was thinking, using Emancipation as his comeback, satement album, unless the statement was, "I have lost my mind, my memory of drums, my ear for production, and my ability to rock in any way, shape or form!"

skywalker said:

So: "Emancipation" is great, and I just think it sucks because I'm too cynical.
But how come I loved TRC, and alot of the NPGMC stuff? That's new, right?
The answer is because much of that material finds Prince striving to explore again, and break new ground. With regards to the NPGMC material, it's also funky as hell.
The exact opposite can be said of "Emancipation", IMO.
Boring, dull, sometimes plodding and filler padded with some of the lamest r&b and dance crap I ever heard.
Sorry, no sale...it's a career low point, and with all the hype at the time surrounding his break from Warners and the triple cd and the hands breaking through the chains on the album cover....
I've never been more let down by a Prince album.

P.S. The new "Star Wars" movies really do suck. Boring, dull, sometimes plodding and filler padded....

skywalker said:

WTF?!

You're taking songs out of their chronological context.

"What if Prince released "She Loves Me 4 Me" on Dirty Mind, or "Strange But True" in 1979.

It makes no sense, this discussion is worthy of ridicule!

//
[Edited 9/16/04 16:37pm]

I respectfully disagree. I love emancipation, especially disk 2. It's his lovey dovey, I'm getting married album. You won't find a song like "Head" on this one. I admit it's not his funkiest album, but I like tons of his non-funky songs. I like NPS as well, but I am firmly in the camp of those who believe that Emancipation is one of his career highlights.


So: "Emancipation" is great, and I just think it sucks because I'm too cynical.
But how come I loved TRC, and alot of the NPGMC stuff? That's new, right?
The answer is because much of that material finds Prince striving to explore again, and break new ground. With regards to the NPGMC material, it's also funky as hell.
The exact opposite can be said of "Emancipation", IMO.
Boring, dull, sometimes plodding and filler padded with some of the lamest r&b and dance crap I ever heard.
Sorry, no sale...it's a career low point, and with all the hype at the time surrounding his break from Warners and the triple cd and the hands breaking through the chains on the album cover....
I've never been more let down by a Prince album.

P.S. The new "Star Wars" movies really do suck. Boring, dull, sometimes plodding and filler padded....[/quote]

swiped
[Edited 9/17/04 0:36am]

skywalker said:

my friend... i shit myself when i first heard it in 96 or 97 or whatever! i think that the whole problem with so many of us dissing a NPS or Emancipation has to do with Prince not getting the whole "rap" thing. high expectations and all that considering he has been able to conquer virtually every other sonic territory. rap and Prince don't get along in the final analysis because his voice ain't monotonous enough -- listen to your average rapper and you'll say:

the rapper's main problem stems from being tone deaf
pack the house and try to sing won't be no one left

i am still, literally, digesting Emancipation 7 years later, the album is tight yet expansive -- my favorite disc is at present the third one.

stole
[Edited 9/17/04 0:34am]

BorisFishpaw said:

I agree totally with Boris's assessment.

I think he purposely pitched it that way, to cash in on the bland sound that was popular at the time, but it backfired.

I think there are many excellent songs on Emancipation but it is too banal to work as a three disc set. Due to it's flat production it just doesnt stand the test of time I think. Please bear in mind I'm talking as a "whole" here.

I do agree that Face Down and Joint to Joint are great tunes.

for those who know the number and don't call, fuck all y'all.

BorisFishpaw said:

Well put, Boris, I totally agree!

I'm going to disagree with most of you here. I think Emancipation and NPS are fantastic albums. NPS especially is very much a dark horse. Listen to them both with good quality headphones and turn it up loud and hear how it was meant to be heard. I really struggle finding weak albums in his output. If anything, Karmasutra is the weakest because it sounds unfinished, though there are some great moments.

Wow! i don't think i have read a thread about 'which albums are good' that is so calm and respectful to each others opinions. bizarre.

BorisFishpaw said:

-----
"certain 'generic bland r&b-ness' " I am glad someone said. It proves the dislike for RnB on this board.

There is nothing wrong with Emancipation. I play it for people all the time who seem to like it.
Of course they like Rnb music.

I don't have a problem with R&B, I like R&B, but there's good R&B, and there's bad R&B.

Prince's attempts during this period (Emancipation) were attempting to emulatte the bad R&B, drivel like R. Kelly.

NouveauDance said:

-----
Prince has nothing in common with R Kelly. R Kelly is bad RnB. Prince is good RnB.

jpav said:

Sex in the Summer? great?

I see a lot of people really rating this song. I just don't get it, to me it sounds like some shite a boyband might put out. One of his very worst IMO.

As for his 90's ouput in general, i do like a lot of it but tend to think there are only one or two songs on each album that could rest alongside Classic Prince's 80's output.

OK, not every song on Emancipation is brilliant.

The real achievement is the creation of a project on that scale. Three seperate discs, each with their own theme, yet still unified as a whole.

As for the flatness or slickness of the production, I think that is one more aspect that ties into the influence of the pyramids. It would be easy to dismiss the structure of the pyramids as being flat & uninspired, too. But they still stand thousands of years later.

The dated production style that we compare Emancipation to now will be forgotten eventually. But the music will remain, and it is an amazing achievement for one person (mostly one person).