New topic
PrintableBinaryJustin said: TheDeacon said: Remember Octavius, 1999 was written BEFORE Wendy came to the group. PR was an extension of 1999 as far as style and sound.
Wendy sings backing vocals on 'Free' on the 1999 album. She was definitely hanging around by that point.  And replaced Dez at some rehearsals around that time due to him losing interest in being in the band.if you've gotta pay for things that you've done wrong I've gotta big bill coming at the end of the day- Gil Scott Heron
Prince.org where fans of Prince meet and stay up too late | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
Byron said: Well...I'll say this...
[snip] Don't get me wrong, I like the work he did that Wendy and Lisa obviously inspired (except for that HORRID "In All My Dreams"...good god)...but SOTT is brilliance, and possibly brilliance he would(could?) have only achieved by stepping off the Wendy & Lisa train. Thank you. It's always nice to run into someone else who thinks this song is truly awful. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later. -Miles Davis- | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
EverlastingNow said: TheDeacon said: As much respect as i have for Wendy and Lisa, i do not believe they influenced P's sound. He may have given them some credit on the PR-Parade albums but remember HE ALSO GAVE CREDIT TO VANITY, APPOLLONIA, SHEILA E. AND THE TIME ON THEIR ALBUMS AND IT WAS P WOULD WROTE ALL THE SONGS AND EVEN PLAYED MOST IF NOT ALL OF THE INSTRUMENTS. P did not need W&L's influence at all.
 That's odd, I wonder why their solo albums still had that SOUND. I understand that some people just don't get it but WOW.Hmmm. could, it be the same reason that some of their work after working with Meshell N' Degeocello sounds just like Meshell after working with her. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later. -Miles Davis- | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Ifsixwuz9 said: EverlastingNow said: That's odd, I wonder why their solo albums still had that SOUND. I understand that some people just don't get it but WOW.Hmmm. could, it be the same reason that some of their work after working with Meshell N' Degeocello sounds just like Meshell after working with her. Hmm...ask MeShell who influenced who, I did and you wouldn't like the answer  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
No, I don't think they hurt his music at all. He trusted them more back then than anyone else he worked with-and for an artist like Prince to let someone work on any aspect of his art I think is saying a lot.
Their influence on AATWIAD and Parade is for the better I think. If Prince hadn't wanted them to have a larger influence on his music, he wouldn't have. From interviews with Wendy and Lisa-and granted you'd say "Well, of course, from them you'd hear that"-that he got too reliant on having them around and had to go back and do things his way and prove things to himself, which makes perfect sense that if you're so used to working with someone that you have to at a point go back and start again and know that you can write without having someone to throw ideas off of. I love their stuff post-Prince-solo, girl bros. and their work on Crossing Jordan. I wish he'd do something again with them-a one-off gig or song or at least a way to celebrate the anniversary with them involved. If not, it's a great time to wish I was around for. At the end of it all too is, what had to happen for him to get to SOTT, or even now. That part of his career was there as a reason-love or hate the Wendy and Lisa factor, I always thought of it more as point a had to happen to get to point b and so on-more of a natural progression. I doubt anybody on the Org has loved every single aspect of his career, which is part of the reason why he remains so interesting to us all-and keeps selling records. I'd doubt it if he analyzes all this even remotely to the point we do-if he second-guessed himself he'd never get anything done-or be Prince for that matter. For me though, the rap thing was just wrong.  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
It's not like I look at Wendy and Lisa as these evil women who brainwashed Prince into using more of their style. I know Prince probably wanted them to have a larger influence on his music, but I just think Prince was better off without them on some future albums.
Like I said, the overall psychadelic, experimental sound to Around the World.. and Parade just doesn't appeal to me, and I think Wendy and Lisa are incredibly overrated here when ppl talk about the good old days of their influence in P's music. If anythimg, I miss just the image of The Revolution, and not necessarily any strong W&L influence... The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
"You still wanna take me to prison...just because I won't trade humanity for patriotism." | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Prince needs some of their influence these days. Someone's gotta help him get out of his creative slump. "You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "
Al Pacino- Scarface | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
EverlastingNow said: Ifsixwuz9 said: Hmmm. could, it be the same reason that some of their work after working with Meshell N' Degeocello sounds just like Meshell after working with her. Hmm...ask MeShell who influenced who, I did and you wouldn't like the answer That Meshell likes W&L has absolutely zippo to do with the fact that some of W&L's stuff after working with her sounds just like what she was doing before she hooked up with them. Do not try to twist Meshell's admiration of them to make your point. As anybody that's heard Mehsell's first album knows it sounds nothing like anything W&L had ever done. And right back at cha'.
. [This message was edited Mon Aug 23 17:13:14 2004 by Ifsixwuz9] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later. -Miles Davis- | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
thanks2joniandu said: I couldn't imagine some of Prince's music without Wendy and Lisa.Their love for Joni Mitcell's music really helped to add another layer of color and sound to the music Prince produced in the mid-80's.
Most of my favorite Prince songs are the ones that have a heavy Wendy and Lisa (and Joni) influence. I'd take Around the World in a Day and Parade over Batman,Diamonds and Pearls,The Symbol Album,Come,Emancipation,New Power Soul and Rave un2 the joy fantastic anyday. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
what freakin hogwash.
there would be no "mountains" or "sometimes it snows in april" without wendy or lisa. how could that have "hurt" prince? get a life[b] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Ifsixwuz9 said: EverlastingNow said: Hmm...ask MeShell who influenced who, I did and you wouldn't like the answer That Meshell likes W&L has absolutely zippo to do with the fact that some of W&L's stuff after working with her sounds just like what she was doing before she hooked up with them. Do not try to twist Meshell's admiration of them to make your point. As anybody that's heard Mehsell's first album knows it sounds nothing like anything W&L had ever done. And right back at cha'.
[This message was edited Mon Aug 23 17:13:14 2004 by Ifsixwuz9] Wendy and Lisa's stuff AFTER working with MeShell? You mean Girl Bros? That album sounded NOTHING like MeShell's stuff. There sound was heavily influenced at that point by Tchad Blake. Please tell me which Wendy and Lisa stuff you are referring to because I sure don't hear it. So I'll keep my right where it is thanks.[This message was edited Mon Aug 23 19:23:03 2004 by EverlastingNow] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
EverlastingNow said: Ifsixwuz9 said: That Meshell likes W&L has absolutely zippo to do with the fact that some of W&L's stuff after working with her sounds just like what she was doing before she hooked up with them. Do not try to twist Meshell's admiration of them to make your point. As anybody that's heard Mehsell's first album knows it sounds nothing like anything W&L had ever done. And right back at cha'.
[This message was edited Mon Aug 23 17:13:14 2004 by Ifsixwuz9] Wendy and Lisa's stuff AFTER working with MeShell? You mean Girl Bros? That album sounded NOTHING like MeShell's stuff. There sound was heavily influenced at that point by Tchad Blake. Please tell me which Wendy and Lisa stuff you are referring to because I sure don't hear it. So I'll keep my right where it is thanks.
[This message was edited Mon Aug 23 19:23:03 2004 by EverlastingNow] The music scores they did for various TV shows and movies. I remember hearing something they did around the time they were doing music for a show with Gina Gershon and it sounded just like Meshell pre-peace beyond passion. I'll assume the track was never released. So, no I'm not talking about the Girl Bros. album. Once again please do not try to twist what I'm saying to suit your needs. Still stands ...~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later. -Miles Davis- | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
All this talk about the dreaded W&L influenced Purple Rain - CB period!..how about the Larry Graham infuenced NewPower Soul 1999 New Masters - Musicology Period? Sorry girls and boys I like a little bit of it all. So do we now blame LG for 2004? Do we blame W&L for 1984? If the next album sucks its cause of LG no Jehovah..wait he hung with Wendy..its her fault..yeah. Yeah, Prince's career was really hurting 84-87..must be W&L..bawhawhaw..or how about "Cloreen Bacon Skin"..Morris Day and Prince tripping on acid in the studio yeah from that experimenting really ruined him.. Damn Morris. Or better yet Mayte, she really started to ruin Prince..she was really hated by many when she was married to Prince!!!!! 1800GET A LIFE!!!!! I'm OUT!!!! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Yes, they diluted Prince's talent....I agree with you. There's a reason why his best album (SOTT) came after he fired them. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
|
Once again, Wendy and Lisa's impact is being given too much weight. They had more influence on his music than any other bandmembers-- only Eric and Sheila come close. On a few songs they were even co-writers. The music on Power Fantastic, for example, is nice and with Prince's voice and lyrics it is a great song. Nevertheless, Prince was and is a great artist regardless of who was around. Wendy, Lisa, and the others are talented in their own rights and would be successful-- perhaps not as famous-- without Prince. All of his bandmembers and contacts have contributed something to the artist/man he has become and they all can share in some of his success and his failures.
Personally, I'm glad they came along because some great music came during their time together. I'm also glad they left because great music came after they left. If they were to someday work together again I would welcome it. The thing is, Prince is an independent artist and insists on having final say of a song. I don't know if W&L want to give up their creative control again. |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
[quote] whodknee said: Once again, Wendy and Lisa's impact is being given too much weight. They had more influence on his music than any other bandmembers-- only Eric and Sheila come close.
Eric's influence was even worse. Andy is a four letter word. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
CynicKill said: BinaryJustin said: It's not just about songwriting credits or performance - it's about attitude and how personal relationships manifest themselves in an artist's body of work. That's very well put. It's obvious that The Revolution influenced the work in a special way that has been missing since Prince disbanded them, part of his way of disconnecting from people close to him. Yeppers, very, very good points. 
Those that have done this please 4give me… but I'm finding it hard 2understand y there is a need 2say "this" is better than "that!" Peeps… its only gonna make every1 chase their tails in circles looking 4the right answer (when there really isn’t 1 answer… *cue duh*) B/c (no disrespect 2any1) it is clear 2me that music is subjective, per person... so y not just break it down by saying; the musical run that Prince took with the influence of W&L at his feet, was DIFFERENT from his solo runs?! 
Whether or not we like W&L… it would b impossible 2deny them their part in the Prince sound “revolution.” The whole point of the band name was 2make evident that Prince’s music was transforming in ways other artists’ music wasn’t, no? Well I believe the only way he could rightly accomplish an uncharacteristic musical revolution was 2align himself with people that could lead him in directions that he not necessarily couldn’t, but wouldn’t know how 2travel in, on his own. & hell he did just that! So who knows where Prince would have gone without the others… but really & truly who cares? B/c every member of the Revolution mixed themselves & their own colors in with Prince’s & on HIS freakin canvas! Colors that no1 else could have supplied in the same fashion, in the same situation or @ the same time. & no doubt Prince himself even gave them the brushes 2do this… & what a rarity that is. So xcuse me if I think W&L r special!  
In truth I’m personally gonna give credit where I believe credit is due & appreciate W&L beyond their music. B/c not only do I think they enhanced Prince’s music but they also influenced the man as a human being... as good friends normally do (& yes as I say this I'm also praying 4 a reunion album hehehe) 
& I’m soooo stating the obvious… but that’s what I do  HeheheGot Gackt??!  
J-Rock ME 2 Death!  + = | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Anyone that is close to Prince is sooner hated by certain fans. Seen it with W&L, Mayte, and now Larry G. Words that come to mind: scapegoat, anger, jealousy, severe head cases. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
|
Regardless if it was Wendy and Lisa or some other Dick and Jane, Prince would've changed his sound every couple of years anyway. Its in his blood to be everchanging. I for one am grateful for everything they contributed to Prince's music and movie. The time line would be dramically different. Consequently, Wendy and Lisa would have changed with him. (Insert something clever here) |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I don't know if I would say that they hurt some of his music, but I definetly wasn't feeling Prince post Purple Rain albums as much as his pre-Purple Rain joints. Lisa was never a problem for me. I think when she was the only female in the group, her voice probably wasn't heard. Maybe when Wendy came along, she felt like someone had her back and together some of her/their ideas would not only be heard but actually fleshed out. Wendy on the other hand left me with something to be desired. First and foremost, I'm a Dez fan 'til then end, so yes my opinion is very biased. At first, I was intigued by the fact that he would have a female guitarist. Before you sistas bite my head off, hear me out. I've been to alot of shows. Not just Prince, but a lot of different acts. Prince shows always stood head and shoulders above them. Especially, the guitar work. He and Dez ripped the roof off the Coliseum and I had never seen a woman play guitar like that. Not with that physicallity. So, I was expecting her to be a beast on the guitar, but I never saw one time where she just ripped shit up. Up until Purple Rain, that's what I associated Prince with. Also, it's like when you see the Little Red Corvette video and P spins over to Dez, you can feel them vibin' and I never got that from Wendy. To me his music got softer when she came on board. Don't get me wrong, I think she has talent and I like her and Lisa's work, but the two of them together took the edge of Prince's music. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Ifsixwuz9 said: Byron said: Well...I'll say this...
[snip] Don't get me wrong, I like the work he did that Wendy and Lisa obviously inspired (except for that HORRID "In All My Dreams"...good god)...but SOTT is brilliance, and possibly brilliance he would(could?) have only achieved by stepping off the Wendy & Lisa train. Thank you. It's always nice to run into someone else who thinks this song is truly awful. I won't be jumping on this W&L underappreciation thing....but I have to admit...I hate "All My Dreams" too! That song really does take the hippie-dippie day-glo too far. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
MendesCity said: Ifsixwuz9 said: Thank you. It's always nice to run into someone else who thinks this song is truly awful. I won't be jumping on this W&L underappreciation thing....but I have to admit...I hate "All My Dreams" too! That song really does take the hippie-dippie day-glo too far. So it's agreed...regardless of whether or not Wendy and Lisa's influence helped or harmed Prince, "In All My Dreams" bites ferociously. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
The
Majority of that so called PRINCE music IS W & L  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I like Wendy and Lisa,and the contributions they made to Prince's music.But I was glad when Prince decided to start over in late 1986 with a new line-up.The Lovesexy Band was Prince's best band ever and I didn't miss W&L one bit.In fact,to be honest,I didn't really care for 'ATWIAD' and some of the other post-Purple Rain songs recorded with W&L (like a few folks on this thread have pointed out,"All My Dreams" is a VERY overrated track). | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Irish9 said: I don't know if I would say that they hurt some of his music, but I definetly wasn't feeling Prince post Purple Rain albums as much as his pre-Purple Rain joints. Lisa was never a problem for me. I think when she was the only female in the group, her voice probably wasn't heard. Maybe when Wendy came along, she felt like someone had her back and together some of her/their ideas would not only be heard but actually fleshed out. Wendy on the other hand left me with something to be desired. First and foremost, I'm a Dez fan 'til then end, so yes my opinion is very biased. At first, I was intigued by the fact that he would have a female guitarist. Before you sistas bite my head off, hear me out. I've been to alot of shows. Not just Prince, but a lot of different acts. Prince shows always stood head and shoulders above them. Especially, the guitar work. He and Dez ripped the roof off the Coliseum and I had never seen a woman play guitar like that. Not with that physicallity. So, I was expecting her to be a beast on the guitar, but I never saw one time where she just ripped shit up. Up until Purple Rain, that's what I associated Prince with. Also, it's like when you see the Little Red Corvette video and P spins over to Dez, you can feel them vibin' and I never got that from Wendy. To me his music got softer when she came on board. Don't get me wrong, I think she has talent and I like her and Lisa's work, but the two of them together took the edge of Prince's music.
I pretty much agree with this viewpoint.It's a shame that Dez didn't hang around a little longer. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
TheDeacon said: As much respect as i have for Wendy and Lisa, i do not believe they influenced P's sound. He may have given them some credit on the PR-Parade albums but remember HE ALSO GAVE CREDIT TO VANITY, APPOLLONIA, SHEILA E. AND THE TIME ON THEIR ALBUMS AND IT WAS P WOULD WROTE ALL THE SONGS AND EVEN PLAYED MOST IF NOT ALL OF THE INSTRUMENTS. P did not need W&L's influence at all.
Yet Prince is also wellknown for denying credit to people as well, to maintain the image of the solitary artist. I have a songwriter friend whose band member was a wrote a Prince song about 15 years ago (off Crystal Ball), and Prince took the song, the credit, and never mentioned the writer. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Irish9 said
[/quote]
To me his music got softer when she came on board. Don't get me wrong, I think she has talent and I like her and Lisa's work, but the two of them together took the edge of Prince's music. I totally agree. Lisa basically did as she was told before Wendy came along. The two of them together totally took the edge off Prince's music and made it "weirder". Dez was one of my favorites also, as well as Andre and Fink. Andy is a four letter word. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DavidEye said: I like Wendy and Lisa,and the contributions they made to Prince's music.But I was glad when Prince decided to start over in late 1986 with a new line-up.The Lovesexy Band was Prince's best band ever and I didn't miss W&L one bit.In fact,to be honest,I didn't really care for 'ATWIAD' and some of the other post-Purple Rain songs recorded with W&L (like a few folks on this thread have pointed out,"All My Dreams" is a VERY overrated track).
They did kick mucho booty didn't they. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later. -Miles Davis- | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I love Wendy and Lisa. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |