Hes a top Bass Player. I learned more about bass from him than anyone really.

I don't have anything against him. I just got tired of seeing him with Prince everywhere and singing in his songs. Thats all. I think its funny when people complain about him. I can understand. Peace!
Oh yeah i really hated when he was singing The Cross with Prince.

He's even older and cornier than prince has gotten and he got Prince caught up in that JW bullshit. That's right. I called it bullshit.

Don't Start and your not so young yourself same age as prince aren't you ?

I guess that's why you lied about your age didn't you ??

I just cant understand the sudden interest in Prince/Larrys personal lives.

Surely its the music that matters?

He helped instill Prince with a huge guilt complex.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

ellaborate

If it was only about music, I'd have no problem with Prince collaborating with a musician of Larry Graham's stature.

Unfortunately, it's much more about one of my least favorite subjects, religion. Larry's religious influence has altered Prince's music, both in terms of lyrics and style of performance. It's bad enough that the new music has been lyrically sterilized, but it's plain offensive to hear edited versions of old songs.

Age shouldn't matter, but for me, it does with Larry. When Prince is jamming with other senior funk-masters, like George Clinton, I don't see or feel an age difference. But Larry, saddled with his midlife religious baggage, looks to me like a senior citizen onstage.

Finally, make no mistake, I fully recognize the obvious, that Prince is an adult, free to be influenced by whomever he wants. But the question asks what Prince fans have against Larry: It's his religion.
[This message was edited Fri Mar 8 17:33:02 PST 2002 by TheMax]

The only problem eye have with Larry is his religious beliefs that he put in2 Prince's head. If he wants 2 jam with him on stage that's fine, just stop with the bible studies back stage.

Paisley

In truth (nobody will admit to this), people are mad at Larry because of his influence on P. Most will attempt to say they hate the religious influence, but thats bull, because P's religion don't affect theirs (not to mention his music always been quite religious). What is most affected is his music. With Larry around, the output from P will be mostly funk/soul based, and we know how much folks around here hate him playin "black music". If Larry influenced him to play all rock, you'd never hear a peep.

At least once a week you hear a call for him to re-unite with musical lightweights (when compared to the master of the funk bass), Wendy & Lisa and/or the Revolution. While these ladies are talented, they aren't even close to LG, the difference is they're genre is rock-based and thats what "people" want P to return to.....rock only.

So all ya'll bitchin about LG need to come clean....it ain't about the religion (they ain't knockin on your door), its about the fact you hate that an artist you came to love for his rock, has returned to playin mostly black music (which many of you don't like).

I'll admit that P's music suffered over the last few years, but it has less to do with Larry (the bass work has been exceptional, don't front), than with P trusting Kirky J to handle percussion (which basically sucked since C&D). Now that Blackwell is handling the beat chores, P's music is already MUCH better. So

I’m all for believing what you want but at least be intelligent about the decisions you make. Prince trying to go back and recreate the past by butchering his old music, only makes him look like a fool. No matter how much he tries, he’ll never erase all the “foul” language from his musical legacy. This is what I’m talking about. Instead of simply deciding to stop cursing, Prince’s newfound Guilt complex compelled him to go back and censor his own art, something the REAL Prince would never have considered.

Did I elaborate enough for ya?

oops...hit the wrong button. As I was saying.....

So....stop playin like LG's religion is having a great affect on P's music. TRC and anything from the time LG came around is no more religious than the religious songs he did pre-LG.

Just admit you don't like him playing black music (jazz, funk, soul) as his main focus.

So what he re-edits his own music....its not like we all don;t have it ALL un-edited. Get over it!

Cod, don’t you think you are engaging in a HUGE AND SWEEPING generalization? I think most of us here are very open to ANY AND ALL musical styles the man lays down. As you can see, I’m not black and I’m absolutely thrilled with the more Jazz oriented output as of late. I was thrilled when Larry came on the scene but IMO the period of music that he inspired was very lazy. Compare NPS to TRC for an example. NPS made during the height of Prince’s involvement with Larry and it was very lazy when compared to what he’s doing now.

cod, the point about editing his music is that he is trying IN VAIN to represent his past with his current beliefs. Deleting "fuck" out of a song isn't going to change the fact that he used the word in the first place. And him using foul language hasn't harmed any of us. Has it harmed you in any way? Me either.

SuperFunky.....I'm not trying to generalize people all in one category, I just don;t see where P's music has undergone a change in his religious nature. He's no more religious than before, yet thats all people seem to have to say about LG. Everybody has assumed that P is now JW because of LG, but he's never confirmed it, nor has his music become a strict JW doctrine put to music. So minus any outward change in the religious aspects of P's music, I'm left to believe its the music itself....which has undergone a change since LG came on board. The change has basically been a change in styles from the pop/rock that the masses enjoyed to the funk/soul/jazz that so many are quick to criticize.


As far as him re-editing his music...I'm with you that he can't change whats already been released. My exact comment on it was "you can't put the shit back in the horse". Otherwise, its his right to do so since its his music. If he chooses to edit an older track, fine....I'll just listen to the original. No sweat...it doesn't ruin the 20+ albums I have that aren't edited.

Me personally, I'm glad LG has come into P's life. He needed someone (other than the yes men recently at PP) to tell him something. He needed to understand that his talent far outweighs the need to pollute his music with the non-stop sex and vulgarities. See, outside us, the P fams (or fans), the world sees him as a over-sexed, eccentric little musician. P is much more than that and he needed somebody to set him straight. Sure the sex stuff can be included, but it should not DEFINE him as he has made it to do.

I guess my beef is that when people bitch about the religious aspect, its really bull. Its not as if since LG came around, P has been the opposite of what he had been religiously, he's just more attentive to the SAME beliefs he had before. Its not as if he's now putting out watchtowers in every song. Its not as if musically he's gotten worse, because he hasn't. It's not as if P has come out and said that all our religions are wrong and JW is the only way to believe. None of that is the case..... So in my eyes, whats left is the underlying dislike of a vocal portion of his fans (and the media) that P is playing black music again.

If your issue is not the black music, then there really shouldn't be a complaint about LG, because otherwise he has not changed P the way people are making it out to be.

I do agree with you that he now has a guilt complex....he should. As one of the major influences over many young musicians, he must be accountable for the content he puts out. Which would you rather have, him encouraging negativity or positivity? Me personally, the older I get, I see that all the negative crap you put out in this world comes back to you in spades, so I'm all for him making less vulgar/sexual music, if only because he doesn;t HAVE to. He's so talented, he doesn't need to push the envelope as a Britney or madonna have to make themselves popular.
[This message was edited Fri Mar 8 18:52:53 PST 2002 by codshort]

The short answer: Any opportunity people can use to tear into Jehovah's Witnesses, they'll take full advantage. Oh well, refer back to 1 Pet 4:3,4. They must be doing something right.

I agree codshort..

I think it gets down to.. I think Prince thinks of him like a father figure.. or a guy he can actually talk to..

we all have an idea of Prince's family past as a child.. but Larry is an older Brother/Father...

good or bad .. it is Prince's expirence
[This message was edited Fri Mar 8 23:01:34 PST 2002 by locoarts]

For me, the Larry influence is more simple.

When Larry, and Chaka for that matter, came on board with Prince, he became lazy.

I like the rock and the funk output, but what I like most is interesting new sounds. Prince once said in 85 that musically he had just scratched the surface. For years he got sounds out of instruments and panels that no one can. Alphabet, Housequake, Question of U, Now, etc etc.

With Larry and Chaka, prince was trying to pay dues to heroes, and in doing that, let the old school music and style slip into he own and cut off the invention process.

If he had just helped them with new albums, he might have escaped, but all their music seemed to merge into one old school jam. Often great live, but not on CD.

I keep reading about how good or bad the band members are, but the point is, this never used to matter (Bobby Z!) bacause in the studio, Prince could create whatever he wanted. But now, a lot of his studio work sounds like a live band recording. It simply not as good.

So what do I have against Larry? Nothing personally, I met him and he is a great guy, but Prince is guilty of letting Larry's musical style (70s) creep into nearly everything he does.

All these new tracks like Northside and Everyday is a winding road are just cheap retro funk. All the instruments sound the same on every record.

When you listen to Larry's album (and it was ok, for a 70s retro record) and Chaka, and most of what Prince has turned out, its the same sound on all the them

Prince needs to lock himself in the studio with no guests for a long time....

I want the funk, but I want it to be original....

Prince's MUSIC right now sounds alot better than it did a couple of years ago. i personally totally dig TRC musically. But that's something else than lyrically.

Kirky j influenced Prince' music a lot during the late 90's. I don't think larry influenced the music a lot then. Maybe now more than ever since Kirk doesn' seem to be around programming modern r&b beats and synths no more.

But Larry and the JW brothers have influenced Prince lyrically and it shows on TRC. Codshort, to me Larry has changed Prince' music lyrically. Allthough of course Prince himself writes them, they are very much influenced by JW doctrines and that makes a clear difference with the past. Like Organgrinder says with the editing of old songs, that's bad and I don't care if I have a recording where it's unedited. It's just bad, it's pushy, it's silly, it ruins the song and he wants fans to pay for it.
I can live with it, but I think it's a shame that it has to go down like this. The lyrics are my only 'problem'. Musically I am all for what he is doing right now.

For me this era in Prince music is pretty strange, because i stuck with him during his bullshit of the 90's and still could dig his music more than most of what's out there. Now he changed again musically and sounds damned great, but now he also changed lyrically and he IS saying that what he beliefs is the ONLY way to GOD and that's just, well that's just really hard to listen to for me. It's defiantely not the same as LoveSexy...

Prince's MUSIC right now sounds alot better than it did a couple of years ago. i personally totally dig TRC musically. But that's something else than lyrically.

Kirky j influenced Prince' music a lot during the late 90's. I don't think larry influenced the music a lot then. Maybe now more than ever since Kirk doesn' seem to be around programming modern r&b beats and synths no more.

But Larry and the JW brothers have influenced Prince lyrically and it shows on TRC. Codshort, to me Larry has changed Prince' music lyrically. Allthough of course Prince himself writes them, they are very much influenced by JW doctrines and that makes a clear difference with the past. Like Organgrinder says with the editing of old songs, that's bad and I don't care if I have a recording where it's unedited. It's just bad, it's pushy, it's silly, it ruins the song and he wants fans to pay for it.
I can live with it, but I think it's a shame that it has to go down like this. The lyrics are my only 'problem'. Musically I am all for what he is doing right now.

For me this era in Prince music is pretty strange, because i stuck with him during his bullshit of the 90's and still could dig his music more than most of what's out there. Now he changed again musically and sounds damned great, but now he also changed lyrically and he IS saying that what he beliefs is the ONLY way to GOD and that's just, well that's just really hard to listen to for me. To me, it definately doesn't sound the same as LoveSexy...

Personally, i don't like Larry's influence on Prince. Sure, i respect his ability on the bass, you cannot deny that the brotha can play that thing. I don't like Larry preaching to me. Whenever Prince would let him on the mic, i would always cringe, because i knew that here would come the sermon, when all i wanted to do was funk the place up.
The worst was when they would change a great song, "The Cross", into " The Christ"
I know that Prince gives his little speeches also, but that is coming from the man that i admire the most in music...in other words, i'll put up with it from him, but no one else.
Also, you know, without a doubt, that Prince is speaking from his heart, he believes in everything that he is saying. He's proven that to me. Can't say that about anyone else.....
I think it was very noble of Prince to bring Larry back out into the spotlight. Many had forgotten about his brilliant bass playing, but the time has come to move on. Bring the funk, experiment with your music again. No one does it like u can.

BLACK MUSIC... THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN' 'BOUT

I was recently listen' 2 Emancipation and reexperienced "Da, Da, Da" I was amazed that someone called that song filler in a thread here. What do people have against Prince producing music that GENRE-ally speakin' ain't like "Let's Go Crazy" with the screamin' guitars and things? I think that Cod has a point about the music style bein' the problem -- not LG religous beliefs.

I LOVE Larry Graham and I have been a Prince fan for years.

If Larry Graham were a Catholic no-one would have a problem. Some Prince fans hold Larry's religion against him. They're dislike for Larry has nothing to do with his musical ability. It has EVERYTHING to do with their own religious prejudice and intolerance.

There is the ridiculous notion (see Science Fiction) that Larry has brainwashed Prince into the JW faith. Of course, there is no evidence to prove this, but that doesn't prevent it from becoming accepted as fact.

Some Prince fans feel that Prince owes them something PERSONALLY. They placed him on a pedestal and then reacted angrily when he didn't behave how they EXPECTED him to. They are incapable of looking beyond they're own ignorance and accept that Prince is capable of making his own choices. They are not happy when Prince is happy. They are only satisfied when he is playing the part they have assigned for him.

They have de-humanised Prince. To them he exists purely for their amusement.

They need a scapegoat and that man is Larry Graham.

Fortunately, outside of the this tiny piece of cyber-space Larry Graham is known and accepted as a bass pioneer and funk legend.

Unfortunately, people on this forum, think that its ok to victimise and abuse a specific religious group or persons if they are called Jehovah's Witnesses. They seem to believe that it is somehow more palatable and acceptable to attack JW's, when in reality it is like any religious prejudice against any religious faith, whether it be Protestant, Catholicism, Baptist, Methodist, Spiritualist, Quaker, Seventh Day Adventist, Mormonism ... whatever:

IT IS HATRED

IT IS PERSECUTION

AND

IT STINKS.

The main problem is with Prince himself. If he was just a little bit stronger minded, he would have never let Larry infect his mind the way he has. Prince needed a father figure and Larry took full advantage of that.

The difference in Prince's music is obvious. Musically it has changed by becoming some retro 70's funk garbage, and lyrically it's changed with all the JW mumbo jumbo. None of this would have happened if Prince just stayed strong and kept doing his own thing.

And Codshort, come on man. You keep going on and on about us being pissed cuz Prince is doing "black music". No, we're pissed cuz he's doing shitty music that has been influenced by a negative entity. And it's not that Prince has to continue being sexual and vulgar, but that's part of who he is. And Larry made him change his nature by making him feel guilty for it. Plus, you keep saying that he's no more religious that he was before. Look back at the Chris Rock interview, Prince himself said that it was spirituality in his music, not religion. There is a difference.

Prince got brainwashed by Larry, plain and simple. He keeps on about how Larry showed him the truth. The truth? In life we're taught not to always believe what we read. Prince needs to think about that. Just because the Bible is an old ass book, doesn't mean it true, especially when it's been altered in the JW version. It was written by men who had no science and no explanation for why the world works the way it does. It's all theory. I have no problem with people believing in what they choose. But how dare anyone say what they believe is the "truth", when there is no proof of it. Unless it can be proven, it is simply theory. Jesus having died on a pole instead of a cross is the truth? Either prove it or shut your fucking mouth.

So everything before Larry sounded like "white" music..I don't get it, what does "white" music and "black" music sound like when we are talking about Prince. Larry probably influenced the sound but I think it just sounded like Prince doing something different, I mean this man does everything, Rock, Jazz, Techno, Rap....
I just had to laugh, So if I am listening to TRC I would be listening the "black" sounding Prince???
Prince's music is Prince to me, not black or white
MS

I really never got "the rush" to player hate on Larry Graham. To this day I dont know why or where it came from.

To me Prince's whole hooking up with Larry Graham has been a personal education for me.

When "One In A Million You" came out, I was in Jr. High School and we sung that song in the chorus for one of our competitions. Every boy wanted to sing the lead including myself.

I never knew Larry Graham was in Sly and The Family Stone or wasn't even familiar with Graham Central Station until Prince hooked up with him and I put the two together by listening to them in interviews and seeing them in concert together.

I've bought every Larry Graham/Graham Central Station CD since that I can find! I had no idea Mr. Larry Graham, Jr. came up with that whole thumb playing funky style! I was amazed to find this out cuz I only knew him from his vocal career on the slow jam stations, etc.

I love how Prince shows respect to his elders, it turns on people like me who are always looking for peoples influences and inspirations-Hey its all musical history! Ya gotta come thru certain folks to learn certain styles techniques and more. Its what music is all about-Sankofa!-taking a look at your roots to know where your coming from so you can have a clearer picture of who u r abd then you add your own self into the mix to set and see where u're going!

peace!

Larry is a very good bass player, no doubt about it. But I think lots of fans get annoyed with the spiritual influence that Graham had on Prince. Personally I think it´s good, because I believe in the Bible, Christ, etc.
The thing I dont really like is the influence Graham had on Prince´s MUSIC in 98-2000....he and Kirky J ruined Prince´s music with predictable drum programming and 70s retro stuff.
I think Larry´s bass playing is cool, and I liked his solo CD on NPG, but I wished Prince kept Rhonda as the official player for a long time. I wished she has the opportunity to make a solid bass/drum team with Blackwell like SonnyT/Michael B were in the past...