Yea, the real Gigolo…...

bigonez said:

OdysseyMiles said:

well, OM, i sure do appreciate your multiple reassurances on this point. and in answer to your question - no obviously prince enjoyed kim's color at the time. but no one can deny prince has changed his point of view on a number of things recently. he's done a complete about face on his stance regarding sexuality, to name one, so why couldn't he change his mind on skin color? this is why i'm concerned, watching him change his mind 180 degrees on issues like this. . . then hearing/reading the lyrics of TRC put me in mind to wonder how far under the surface his recent changes extend.


OM, surely even YOU can admit that prince is, how to say this nicely, 'vague' at times. and sometimes his vagueness extends to taking jabs at people. but, he is aware of his own vulnerability as a public figure and so takes these jabs in such a way as to be able to later say "no, i didn't mean it that way - you just read into it. shame on you", when in fact it IS a jab. like, for example, the song billy jack bitch.

HOWEVER, in making this point i want to emphasize that after reflection i don't think he's a racist and has reached the point where he 'hates' white people. i just think that, if he does NOT intend to be taken as a racist, he needs a capable editor, someone to help him craft his words carefully so as to erase all possibility of his lyrics being misconstrued as anti-semitism and anti-white people, such as the arguably offensive message in TRC's 'family name'
[This message was edited Tue Aug 10 13:23:35 2004 by XxAxX]

XxAxX said:

Of course Prince is "vague". Most artists are. Especially the really good ones.
This allows us to paint our own picture if you will, using their words for color (parden the term "color" ) You know good and well our little man will never use an editor to ensure that nothing is misconstrued. If he did, folks would complain that Prince has "lost his sense of mystery" that he's "spoon feeding us with the obvious". People will always have a complaint about something, especially when it comes to Prince.
As far as Family Name goes, this is just an expression. An honest expression regarding the family history that many people don't know. Nothing more nothing less. I mean, think about it. The only ones who should be offended are the ones who are responsible for taking that family history away. They are no longer here. So I don't know why any caucasian person today would take offense to such a thing since it does not address them personally.

ICP&C isn't at all racist, but the lyric in issue may be a jab at white people.




BUT





I said it before, and I'll say it again: Prince is an equal opportunity asshole. At any given point in his career he has, either in lyrics, movies, or interviews, purposely said something that's guaranteed to offend somebody.

meow85 said:

True.

God, I can only laugh at some of the insane reactions my thread spawned from people.

It's cool to try and conceive what a song might be about. But, as with everything, there
is such a thing as going TOO FAR.

Jeez. It seems like some people here are intent to start a race-issue every chance they
get.

For crying out loud, we're on the PRINCE org here. If anything, Prince always tought us
that black, white, yellow and red were all equal.

The way he sometimes mentions specifics about black and white people in songs are
simply a way of pointing out wrongs in our current society.

They're not jabs and not racist remarks.



For example:

I take the lyrics of ICP&C to be about a white, smooth talking slick gigolo who's got
himself a nice little sugarmommy in Doris.

Now, eventho he's supposedly pimpin her, she is also pimpin him. And despite all
the money he gets he tries to "hip" her up a bit. So he 'hips her 2 the funk' and he
wishes she'd get a tan for christ's sake cuz she's obviously very very old with silver
hair and pale as a sheet -as some of these old rich hags are.

So by getting her a nice tan, some funky moves and a younger style, this gigolo
hopes to make something out of Doris that will make it less hard to bang her for
the money.

But while this proces is in the making, he has to unburden his mind by 'burnin old
flames' and taking baths in Crystall. An end to justify the means, I guess.

But despite all these things he does, he's still confronted with the old gal who's
so white that she seems to glow in the dark.

I don't see the racist undercurrent in this tune at all, but hey.....

so please stop fighting on my threads

IstenSzek said:

Everyone's reading so much into this song. Based on the straight-forward nature of most of the songs on the album, I'm going to go out on a limb and say Illusion, Coma, Pimp & Circumstance is about a hot looking guy without much money hooking up with an ugly rich girl and living off her in exchange for "hipping her to the funk." And that's it. She's a sugar momma. He likes sugar. Maybe when they have sex he says, "give me some sugar, baby" and then Sam Raimi sues him.

Luv & Peace,
Alex
Clubbin' in Mpls/A Night w. Prince

deebee said:

Yes.
And Gooey says now, in the gestest of gests; Piss Off and tell us.

I do not believe people can be on SUCH a trip they just exclude others.

Exactly what is wrong with the Org RIGHT THERE.

But please, be my guest and ignore this post also.

i think the whole couplet is about Doris taking to much cocaine, every night. that is why her skin is so pale. her nose is even fluorescent of the stuff. this whole race issue is ridiculous in my point of view.

but who is Doris Duke.

you can answer it in one sentence.

dawntreader said:

Yeah, but we can ignore you like three times.

squirrelgrease said:

The same could be said about anybody here.

The pimp, whoever it is, is clearly BLACK, no?

Afterall, how many white men make fun of how white girls dance? It's a black thing. That's something Prince has always found humorous, as a BLACK man. This goes way back to the days of The Time. Prince ain't changed his jibes at white folk in this sense at all. It's just all in jest, and not to be taken seriously. Whatever anyone's getting offended about now, they should have the left the camp a long time ago.

dawntreader said:

Ditto this whole post!

I thought it was obviously about coke-abuse.

Isn't the Crystal bath thing about Puff Daddy?

B4 I heard the album, a friend of mine who was a fan back in the day and was re-excited by Musicology was raving to me about ICP&C. He said that P was telling it just like it is. I think he meant that somehow it referred to the music biz or something (he's a muzo). Anyway, I got the album and ever since, I've been trying to understand this song. It means NOTHING to me, and yet my mate thought it hit the nail. What am I missing????

And what does the title mean???

Oh, yeah, and WHO THE FUCK IS DORIS DUKE?????

WHY R U FUCKERS IGNORING US??
(xcuse the shouting and swearing, but I think by now it's deserved!!!)

thepurpleaxxe said:

Actually, Mani is Italian.

How can you see the first line bolded here, and miss the line 2 lines down.


[This message was edited Wed Aug 11 9:54:51 2004 by alandail]

Sorry folks...He wrote this songs during his "Parade" Days.
It was written for "Under the cherry Moon". He didn't use it for reasons unknown.
He's singing as Christopher Tracey.

Got this from an inside source.

Lovsexy4 said:

Inside a box? No one was using the phrase 'chips n whips' in 1985.

wasitgood4u said:

thanks, i am glad i wasn't the only one.

Doris Duke

Doris Duke, who was born on November 22, 1912 in New York City, was the only child of James Buchanan Duke, a founder of the American Tobacco Company and Duke Energy Company and a benefactor of Duke University in his native North Carolina. When J.B. Duke died in 1925, he divided his fortune between the Duke Endowment — a foundation he established to serve the people of the Carolinas — and his 12-year-old daughter.

Adventurous, intelligent and independent, Doris Duke was determined not to be defined by social expectations or her wealth. At the same time, she enjoyed the freedom her wealth provided to pursue her many interests, which included travel, the arts, historic preservation, environmental conservation, wildlife and horticulture.

Fascinated by different cultures, Doris Duke gathered countless treasures on her worldwide excursions and acquired remarkable collections of Islamic and Southeast Asian art. In addition to collecting art, she was a patron of the performing arts as well as a participant, actively exploring various art forms as a jazz pianist and composer, a student of modern dance, and a singer with a gospel choir in New Jersey.

Doris Duke also was a lifelong environmentalist with a keen interest in conservation and horticulture. She designed elaborate greenhouse display gardens at Duke Farms to reflect various regions of the world and opened them to the public in 1964.

Although Doris Duke lived a private life, she contributed to a number of public causes. She was an active supporter of medical research and child welfare throughout her life. When she was just 21, she established a foundation called Independent Aid, which later became the Doris Duke Foundation. It is estimated that she gave away more than $400 million in current dollars during her lifetime, often as anonymous contributions.

Doris Duke died in October 1993 at the age of 80. In her will, she left the majority of her estate to the Doris Duke Charitable Foundation.

Jestyr said:

Please grow up and stop acting so childish...you guys read into to much.
You sound more like fanatics!!!! not fans

oh and...

Tobacco heiress Doris Duke died two years ago, but she is still making headlines. The on-going battle over her will seems an appropriate epilogue for such an eventful life.
In "Too Rich: The Family Secrets of Doris Duke" (HarperCollins, $25), Pony Duke, Ms. Duke's cousin and godson, teamed up with Jason Thomas for a revealing look at the life of the eccentric heiress. The book was published with the approval of the Duke family.
When Doris was 12, her father died, leaving her the sole heir to the family fortune. Along with her father's wealth, Doris inherited his creed: "Never trust anyone." Both would shape her life and ultimately rule it.
And so began the public's fascination with Doris Duke. Whether it was what she wore or who she was with, the media watched and commented on her every move.
Undaunted by the attention, she kept herself in the spotlight. There were many love affairs, notably with Errol Flynn and Gen. George Patton, and two marriages. She engaged in a variety of business ventures and exhibited some strange behavior -- for example, her adopting Chandi Heffner, a woman in her 30s, whom Ms. Duke believed was the reincarnation of her own daughter, Arden, who had died at birth. (Ms. Duke had previously believed that slain actress Sharon Tate was her reincarnated daughter.)
"Too Rich" also covers the death of Ms. Duke's friend and interior designer Eddie Tirella, who was crushed by the car Ms. Duke was driving soon after he told her he was leaving her.
In her last years, Ms. Duke avoided attention. According to family members, what little contact she had with the outside world had to be approved by her butler, Bernard Lafferty, who is executor of her will.
The authors suggest that Ms. Duke's death might have been caused by overmedication administered by Mr. Lafferty, who dismissed and replaced Ms. Duke's physicians. Mr. Lafferty is currently in a legal battle over Ms. Duke's will. Family members claim that she knew she was being poisoned and had tried just before her death to regain control of her life and her wealth.

Here's my theory...

http://www.prince.org/msg/7/105901

OdysseyMiles said:

True.


Waitaminute... why, you...

Anji said:

ok. i admit i over reacted. sorry to have tainted this thread. upon review i do see that prince has been poking fun at 'white' stuff for some time now. is it in jest? i don't know. can't tell at times, even. but, my black friends have gently helped me see i don't have the same cultural reference points and therefore don't 'really' udnerstand some of what he's saying. don't have a similar background so i can't totally quite relate.

anyway, sorry to made a bad smell on this thread.

XxAxX said:

heres my two cents:

first off i find it very stupid of u to feel that prince is being racist with the lily white comment since its commin from someone who was damn near lily white (wit his make up), used to say he was half white and considered sellin out to the white folks (wit his music)...

number two i agree i think ur just mad cuz he's offendin u...yes it is the same thing..theres no HUGE difference....he offended tipper gore and a whole buncha otha folks wit his freaky deaky lyrics and offended the public in general wit his flamboyant dress and cocky attitude...did u have a problem wit it then? no i don't think u did..cuz u was cool wit that....i also agree wit the people who r sayin its just a song...yea its just a song thats all it is...don't take it so seriously...its a song its a story...now if he came out in an interview and said some shit like that than i could c u being mad.....

he said it best himself tho

"F" is 4 frustration
I'm looking 4 what isn't really there"





and this is exactly what i'm talkin about..he didn't have to choose his words wisely in darling nikki or come on or any other of his "offensive songs" y should he start now?

but i think i'm startin to get it now



its not really WHAT he said its the fact that it deals wit race and ANYTHING dealing wit race is always gonna get attention..so he coulda said white folks rock! and that would got attention



2 the person who asked who dorris duke is shes some rich old lady (think shes dead now)
[This message was edited Fri Aug 13 19:03:28 2004 by Moonwalkbjrain]
[This message was edited Fri Aug 13 19:24:42 2004 by Moonwalkbjrain]

no. don't get me wrong, i stand by my assertion he takes jabs at people with his lyrics. i'm just apologizing for messing up the topic on this thread

Jestyr said:

So you never saw "Weird Science," then?

Luv & Peace,
Alex
Clubbin' in Mpls/A Night w. Prince

XxAxX said:

David Duke's sister.