People the song is about a relationship between 2 people that are using eachother for their own personal gain. He's using her for her money and she's using him for the sex. It aint about race. I'm about as lily white as they come and I'm not offended at all. It's not a true story or a commentary coming directly from P, it's fictional story about something real in the world. ICP&C is one of the better songs on Musicology, don't get mad at the story teller.....

OdysseyMiles said:

I've been diggin' P's music for 20+ years, and bad reasoning or not, the dude has said some very color-ful things in recent years that should make most people go "Hmm..."

Snap said:

well, i'm just another face on a message board. in the end it's only the internet and who cares what i think?

but.... i miss prince

Snap said:

Saying "hmm..." is one thing. Saying something is borderline racist when it's nowhere near that is something else. Some folks will see what they wanna see.

XxAxX said:

Your "old Prince" was offending people left and right back in the day. Now that he says something you might find offensive, there's a problem. How convenient.

OdysseyMiles said:

HUGE difference between the sexually charged lyrics that offended JWs/tipper gore back in the day, and racist remarks . HUGE difference

XxAxX said:

But Prince seems to take the stance on that what he was doin to poor ole Doris wasn't right. At the end of the song one gathers that the guy's an ass/giggalo and that Doris got the better of him and his ways. I really don't think it's a reflection of Prince at all. It's more story than anything.

That said... I do getcha on the anti-white thing a bit. I thought TRC was going a bit into the Black/Slavery white done the black people wrong sorta thing a bit too much. I have found P to be a little more seperatist (is that the right word?) than he was back in the 80's. Not more racist...but pointing out white injustaces on the black people...current and past than he used to do.

I don't dwell on it too much...it's only Prince. And it's not in such a way that really offends me. I just roll my eyes...wish he'd get past certain "thing's" and move on.

XxAxX said:

1.JWs never made a big deal about Prince's sexually charged lyrics. If a JW was offended, they simply didn't listen. No need to lump them in w/Tipper.

2.You assume the lyrics to ICP&C are racist. It's been pointed out that the tune is merely a fictional story. No need to get wound up about that.

3.Offense is offense. Whether he's saying something that you find a little too "pro-black" or a little too "anti-white", or using curse words. Again, you had no problem with Prince when his "offenses" were convenient for you.

In fairness to XxAxX, i sorta took her outrage at this song as being kind of a "straw that broke the camel's back" sort of thing.... The way I imagine it, she's been brooding (get it? ...oh, look at her avatar! ) over Prince's stance on racial politics for a while, and this song was just the moment that the dam burst....!

Personally, I find this song too mind-numbingly dull (especially the lyrics!) to even spend time thinking about what the hell he's rambling on about in it....

I mean think about it, he's 46, and in the past few years the guy's lost a baby, his marriage has broken down, he's had a religious conversion, his career seemed to be at its lowest ebb.... As a fan who thinks that he can be a great lyricist when he puts his mind to it, I'd love to hear him delve into all of that... How did he cope? What has he learnt, etc? If he wrote something really soul-searching and honest, I think it could be incredible...

Sadly, he's too busy trying to sound cool and appeal 'to the kids' ("chips 'n' whips", etc), that he'd rather babble on with some half-assed narrative about two pretty daft characters (neither of whom I can be bothered to give a toss about!) than just break it down and be upfront with us, and give us all The Big One that I know he's still got in him.....

I've listened to this song enough to know what Prince is talking about now and its definately not Doris Duke. Given that Prince hasn't put lyrics in a studio album for a while, he was due to react in some way to what was going on with his ex.

In Prince's traditional cryptic way, I suspect this song is referring to he as a she.

About Tommy Lee (the bitch) and his most recent marriage, fallout and hook up with Mayte and Prince still paying the bills... from the tone of his voice, private jokes and comic defense mechanisms. . i'm convinced this is the point of the song.

Listen to it a few more times. its quite a funny and jabby song.

blablabla race racism

Can anyone please answer my question?

WHO IS DORIS DUKE?

Savannah said:

interesting theory. now i have to go listen to it again.

OdysseyMiles said:







well, the overall tone if the story/song is cynical, not racist. i'm just tired of finding little digs at whitey here and there in the things he says/writes.



i see the point you're making but i still think there's been a measurably darker content in the remarks he makes about white folks, in recent years. it's turning me off his music

deebee said:

yes you got me, there. my total outrage didn't actually come from the lyrics of this song, it was the end result of several years of hearing things i never expected to hear coming from prince, the individual who once united us all

gooeythehamster said:

quiet! i'm busy jacking the thread!

XxAxX said:

XxAxX,

If the lyrics are so offensive, you don't have to listen to them. There are situations where I have to put up with reading offensive literature, as I am studying to be an English teacher, To Kill a Mockingbird, for instance, however sometimes you have to block out the offenses and get the message of the material. Especially because I love the classics. But in your case you don't have to listen to P if it is such a turn off.

This has got to be one of Prince's worst songs he's ever released. Absolute shitty shit-shit poo. Badly sung. Badly produced. Reverse-racism or not, this bitch hits "skip".

TheDreamingPeasant said:

PLZ PLZ PLZ
I cry when I read this dribble - If you do recall there was song call Come On

I know U got a young man
U don't care about me
He's darker than quicksand
He's taller than a tree


Oh oh racist!!!! watch out now!!!


When Doves Cry 2000 still speaks the Truth...
if ya wanna get ta Heaven - Follow me!

This whore here hits "skip" also.

squirrelgrease said:

...The song seems terribly out of place with the rest of the album,too.

gooeythehamster said:

Yes who is Doris Duke????


Anybody??

[This message was edited Tue Aug 10 4:40:25 2004 by PurpleCharm]

Lovesexy2 said:

excuse me for, pointing this out but for you to compare harper lee's nobel prize-winning book 'to kill a mockingbird' to ICP&C is.....ridiculous!!!

and, the point i've been making is that, because of how the lyrics affect me, i hardly ever do listen to prince anymore at all. i mean period. when a new album comes out i buy it out of habit (i've been supporting his work for 20+yrs now) then listen, then put it away.

i was initially pissed because when dreaming peasant posted that bit above, about the lyrics to this song, i was like 'no way'. because i first thought ICPC seemed 'user safe'. but then i checked the lyrics and sure enough, it's there. a tiny jab. he just HAD to work in something about skin color

in the end he'll do whatever he pleases, as usual. i just find it odd that, at a point in his life when he has supposedly found spiritual peace, he sounds angrier than ever in his work.

AND, most importantly of all. prince keeps saying he wants to rid his music of raunchiness, sexually charged lyrics and curse words. he wants his music to be 'saef for children' well imo the anger and hatred which occasionally comes out of some of his songs is far, far more corrosive, more dangerous to the mind of a child than any of his sexuality-driven work ever was. i'm surprised he don't see that

starbuck said:

Wise man once say:
"Seek ye first the kingdom of google, and its righteous search technology; and all these things shall be added unto you..."
(Or something like that, anyway...)

[This message was edited Tue Aug 10 6:01:20 2004 by deebee]

XxAxX said:

If you are willing to put an imperfect person on a pedestal this high, then you deserve every ounce of disappointment you get when that individual does something that you don't like.

kellyann22 said:

What are those contract pages burning on the album lyric page next to the song

OdysseyMiles said:

don't put words into my pedestal ....erm mouth, OM. i never put him on a pedestal that high. nor do i 'deserve' to experience racsim at the hands of ANY artist. disappointment? i'm old enough to understand about life by now, and i take this in stride. am i the only person around who is 'disappointed' by this issue? nope.

like i said, in the end it's aiight. he do what he want. i just.... don't listen to p much anymore. haven't even been spending that much time here anymore lately either.

I am really beginning to believe our society is way to pc. This is a song whose lyrics tell a story. The gigolo in the song wishes the woman was a little darker, however he still has no qualms about using her for her money. ITS A STORY!!! The song itself makes me think of his character from UTCM...remember the wrecka stow scene.
I can't believe Prince is any way shape or form racist...first of all he has white musicians play with him, secondly has anyone noticed that his wife is hispanic. Yes i do understand that an artists ideals and beliefs are reflected in their work but come on... this song is in no way offensive. people can't just pull a random lyric from a song and expexct that to reflect the artist on a whole. I suppose people want to put the line from Dinner with Delores in with his racist comments too.

XxAxX said:

As I said earlier honey, suit yourself. I (and others here) honestly feel that you're being way too sensitive about this. Princey luuuvs your lily white skin, darling. You think he had a problem with Kim Basinger's skin color?
Seriously, it sounds like you're looking for something that's just not there.
It's merely a missunderstanding of the lyric. You shouldn't let it bother you.

Since when did this week become "National over-reaction to everything about Prince" week then