Anxiety said:

Exactly.

Partyman76 said:

I don't think that's the only stuff he listens to. I think that's the answer he gives to pacify reporters.

estelle1981 said:

Puhleaze, do u really think i need a radio or cable to hear some new decent music?
I'm a music lover, i don't care about image but i LISTEN to new music in my favorite record shop (or internet shops).
Damn do u really think there's only Britney these days??

I'm talking about music, man: M-U-S-I-C!

There's so much good new releases/records (electronic, pop, rock, funky, blues, fusion, etc...) but those artists/musicians
aren't showing their *sses on cable duh. Please dig a little deeper, we're talking about music here baby.

TheDreamingPeasant said:

Exactly my point!

PaisleyPark said:

Thank you Paisly!!! There are plenty of great artist and musicans out here and Prince knows that.
If he wants to save the music try writting something good and maybe young folks will learn from that. I'll take most of the new stuff over Musicology anyday.

heartbeatocean said:

-----
So to be supported he should just not tell the truth. I really think he is focusing on Rnb and if so he is right on the button.

Littlewing said:

-----
Do you really think P's jealous of people who lip synch? People who ae not going to be making music when they are 46 years old.

Littlewing said:

Meaning what, exactly?

I know he gives props to NORAH and I knew people would say that, but I'm saying when he is being interviewed and when he gets to complaining about the state of music and talking about the lack of musicians, I am thinking: THERE ARE SO MANY just look around you-- instead of just trying to focus on the black artists-- who can't be saved!

There's a similar discussion running about the state of today's music, and Prince's dismissal of it, ("real music") in the other forum, but it's basically picking up on the same themes as this one... So, I'll just post here... (btw, I'm not picking on you, Estelle1981 in particular Just your post summed up one position in this discussion quite nicely, so I quoted it...)

estelle1981 said:

But seriously, though, it's been "about image" for a long time - at least since Elvis!! Prince, as much as any of his generation, or the current generation, of pop singers played on his image (Is he boy/girl? Is he straight/gay? His overt sexuality, etc)....I agree that he certainly has a lot of talent as a musician to back-up his image. That matters to me and it matters to you, but lots of people really don't care - they just here a song on the radio and like it, maybe enough to go buy the cd. There's nothing wrong with that, and I can think of a lot of songs on the radio at the moment that I like a lot more than Musicology or Cinnamon Girl... Why is it any more valid to appreciate Prince's song, simply because he actually banged something with a stick, or plucked some strings....?



But the computer is just the latest bit of technology that musicians are using... (and I guarantee to you that Prince's engineers are using exactly the same software as Britney's....!)

There's a debate every time a new piece of technology gets introduced and changes the sound of the music that gets made. But technology has always driven music and been used to enhance the sound. When someone decided to put valves on a trumpet, or to make a guitar that could be plugged in - those were all uses of new technology to change or enhance the sound of the music....It's been said about electric guitars (think of Bob Dylan), the use of distortion (by Muddy Waters, Jimi Hendrix) and other effects... All kinds of stuff! There's always been technology which has changed the music, and there's always been controversy about it... You have to remember that the same things that Prince is saying about "the computer" were being said about synthesizers, drum machines, multi-track tape machine and all the pieces of technology that Prince made his name playing!

At the end of the day, whatever's being used still requires a certain level of skill to operate, and a level of sensitivity to the aesthetic preferences of the listening public... How much people value a particular skill will change over time though... (you don't hear anyone saying, "Prince sucks because he can't write a fugue, or arrange a piece for a Big Band!", do you...?)



Most of it's crap, I agree! But, here's the thing - THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN TRUE! There have always been innovators, and there has always been great music out there, but I think these have always been the minority... Maybe some periods are a little better oevrall than others, but basically, over time you get to gather up all the minority of good stuff from, say, The 60's and that's the stuff people remember... But, if you'd randomly selected a week from that time period and listened to all the stuff that was being played on the radio, you'd find that most of it was crap too!!

Plus, there were always people who followed the innovators... In the UK, think of all the bands that sounded kind of like The Beatles - Gerry & The Pacemakers, Dave Clark, Dosey Beaky Titchy... (or whatever the hell they were called!), Freddie & THe Dreamers... All they had was an image similar to the John, Paul, et al (who - lest we forget - people said were talentless and all about image!!), and they rode their coat tails! In the US, think of all those west coast Mama's & Papa's style bands of the late-60's/early-70's... (the ones with stupid names!) - most of them were shit too!



When she popped up from the bath at the end of that video, I just wished someone would push her back in again.... (and maybe hold her there 'til the bubbles stopped....)

And yet he keeps posting to a Prince Fan site. What up with that?????

Peace, Be Wild & LOVE 4 ONE ANOTHER

Michael M. O{+>

"With great power, comes great reponsibility"

HOUSEQUAKE65 said:

Transation = So if you dont agree with us then leave? You sound like your facist master.

Unless you can get one of the gatekeepers to band me from the village, I aint goin no place.

I do dig the classic stuff Dirty Mind - LS. Its the recent attitude and preachy hypocrisy that bugs me.

I was over at Housequake looking at some recent video clips..

I don't see that he is dissing anyone... He is trying to educate people on the fine art of music.

Why u in a Prince org dissing Prince are u nuts go away he is a genius he has been playing music writing songs for 25 years he can diss who he wants ha

LittleLamb said:

-----
You really think black artists can't be saved. Maybe you need to listen to some of the neo-soul artist. Everybody is not rapping.

vainandy said:

WORD!! He's so right! I heard him on an interview saying that it is so important for kids to see musical instruments being played so they will want to learn music---that is so true! Most of the new musicians suck at music because they don't understand it, because they don't PLAY music--they are just imitating something else.

Anyway, if you're sick of him, then we are not interested in you anyway!

laurarichardson said:

if he's focusing on R&B, he needs to leave foo fighters out of it, first off.

secondly, it's possible to be critical and truthful without dragging the names of other artists through the mud. prince doesn't like it when people take his name in vain, whether it's deserved or not - so why is it cool for him to rag on other artists, at times calling them out by name? there's no need for that.

and ostensibly, based on the so-called principles of "unity" at his official site, he'd be the first one to preach such an attitude.

it's just puzzling, is all.

I love how some individuals pick out the little things in my previous post to argue about, but refuse to acknowledge the most important part of that post and here it is in bold for those folks:



Okay, now what was that about being sick of Prince because he disses other artists?.....I'm waiting. Some of the individuals who are making these angry points about him make it seem like he's the only artist in the history of music to make a nasty remark or diss towards another entertainer. That's why I am laughing at this thread at the moment. I hope you are sick of Madonna, Rick James, Carlos Santana, and many others for saying shit about one of their fellow artists, because they've said alot more hateful comments than Prince has.

PaisleyPark said:


This is you and you're feelings. I'm a music lover also, which is the main reason I have a hard time calling the majority of what's out now "real music". It's computers, lights, and mirrors, like I said before. Many artists now live by the computer. They can't pick up an instrument and churn out a hit like many of the older artists could. If Stevie Wonder said something like this, I would be agreeing with him too, because Stevie can back up what he's saying, just like Prince can. "Damn, do u really think there's only Britney these days??"....hmm, considering the girl is worth 100 million dollars and doesn't do a third of what the originals can do? She's worth almost a much as her idol Madonna and she's no where near as talented as Mrs. Ritchie. She's the prime example I use when people ask, "What's wrong with music today?" I'm talking about M-U-S-I-C also, but I agree with Prince speaking his mind on the matter, because the majority of this garbage out now isn't worth the money, time, and attention that's it's getting. Anyone who is a true music lover, wouldn't be soo heartfeltly disagreeing with Prince for saying what is soo obviously true. You don't have to agree with it, but don't deny the fact that Prince ain't lying. Plus, all the interviews he's said this in, the interviewer asked him what his opinion of today's music was. What, you want him to lie and say it's great stuff. If he had lied, this thread would have been titled, "I'm sick of Prince's lies!" I guess there's no satisfying some, but different strokes for different folks, as I always say. Whatever floats your boat and tickles your pickle, man.

Littlewing said:

I agree that "Musicology" is faar from good, but it's gotten a lot of younger listeners into Prince. There's been a lot of posts recently in this forum from young Prince fans, who want to know more about him because of this Musicology tour, that Grammy performance, and the new videos. They'll buy his older albums and realize how good the man is. Plus, you're right, there are pleny of great artists and musicians out there, but they aren't played in heavy rotation on the music channels or the radio, which is the main place that young music listeners go to when they want to hear music. Some people are too lazy to go out and seek out artists that aren't played on MTV or their local radio station everyday in heavy rotation and some are just followers who go along with what's popular and trendy at the moment...did I say "some"? I meant a lot. You can tell by an artist's album sales how many people are into them; and the less-than-talented, but popular "artists" are the ones who are going platinum and diamond at the moment. They're the one's who are getting the undeserved attention, while the amazing musicians and artists are being thrown to the back burner, because their images aren't sexy enough or they didn't incorporate a hip-hop sound into their music. I've met some extremely talented musicians and singers, but they can't get record deals, because they either aren't willing to change their images to the sex symbol or they aren't willing to change their sound to that of what's popular at the moment. Now, that's a real musician. Anyone who doesn't change their sound, refuses to fit into the "What's hot and popular mold", and won't go against who they are just to get a record deal, is someone who truly loves music. But, this is just my feelings on the matter.

I agree with LittleLamb, R&B can't be saved.

Even Neo-Soul artists can't even keep up with Prince. Badu thinks she a great writer, but her lyrics are almost always commonplace. She doesn't even have the writing genius of PRINCE. The girl can't even play an instrument. Her biggest talent is being weird and that's hardly a talent. And I think PRINCE is pointing his finger at that. Bilal is neo-soul, but he's no good. And D'Angelo isn't even consistent. Prince has had so many albums. Alicia Keys isn't even as genius as people make her. Her lyrics are commonplace, too. I read a line in a book once that went something like this: There is nothing worse than an eccentric man who is only really common place.

To me that sums up all the neo-soul artists.

I'll take Aerosmith any day over Badu. If Neo-soul artists rocked like that and came with the whole package (lyrics, band, music, personality), then it would be saved. A lot of people hype up the Roots, but what do they do really?

Fiona Apple bangs on the piano and her lyrics are well written. You don't hear her singing about "I got the block on lock ..." Fiona is saying, um, well, just go listen to the CD -- you can tell the gift is innate. But with the Neo-soul artists it's more like a gimmick and most of the time (like Badu) they end up being trite and ghetto anyway. Just because someone puts on a headscarf, go bald, wear an afro wig (i.e., Angie Stone) and smoke incense doesn't make you a star.

If PRINCE was bold, he'd point a finger at these phonies. If I were PRINCE, I'd call them out.
PRINCE is trying to tell the black race to wake up when it comes to music. Does the black race have a Carlos Santana? And Jimi Hendrix was shunned by Malcolm X for being "white friendly."

The one other genius that I LOVE is [the late] NINA SIMONE -- and R&B doesn't have that anymore. I don't want my kids to grow up knowing Beyonces and Ashantis. That is why my son only hears me playing the greats.

Yes, the white kids have Britney Spears and Jessica Simpson, but they also have John Mayer, Coldplay and Norah and Fiona Apple and Rachael Yamagata and Jonny Lang and Hope Sandoval and Leona Naess and the list goes on ...

If someone came from under a rock and turned on BET, people would think there are no good black musicians -- they'd have to go back and find old Nina Simone CDs, Prince CDs. That is why Dre3000 is trying to go back to the drawing board and learn instruments and go to Julliard. Shoot, that has to be in you, you can't just decide you are going to be a Julliard student overnight. He thinks it's that simple and if I were PRINCE, I'd be mad. Musical talent is not a joke. John Mayer's been playing since he was 13 years old (I'm a fan, so I know all this). Dre3000 left rap cos he knows it's going nowhere; it's a dead end, so he's trying to hurry and get some talent.

I wish Prince would call these people out. When I get famous, I'm going to say what I feel. I'm a writer and very opinionated and if I were PRINCE, I wouldn't bit my tongue.

Littlewing said:

that's actually NOT true, my Audio instructor writes songs all the time and he does it in pro-tools and he is NO musician. computers are a handicap that devalue real muscians. Knowing Pro-tools is good if you want to tweak your work not to compose shit, eye mean come on.... a musician is a musician and a protools user is just a protools user.

[quote]

OdysseyMiles said:

The reason I am bitching is because I am not happy just listening to my old records. Who wants to sit and listen to the same stuff over and over? I want something new. Now, look at what's new today.....JUNK!!! I want this trend to go out of style so we can get some GOOD music again.

TheDreamingPeasant said:

good post

How could Prince be jealous of the time? it does not make sense. He made them, he wrote their best music, he owned them. It´s stupid to say that at least.

azriela said:

Sorry I ain't going no place!

By the amount of viewers I think alot of people are interested. So speak for yourself.
By the way Im very interested in your views. Even thought they are diferent from mind.
Are you married? Is your last name Stepford?.....

PrimeraDama said:

I have to disagree. Yes its in a sad state now but music goes in cycles. There have always been dry spells. Looking back we tend to forget most of the bad and see the great artist of the past and say wow those where the golded years. Also each generation has their own sound. The industry generates this purposly to satisfy the rebellousness of youth againg their parents generation. So its ony natural that once your generations music fades out, your like, what the hell is this crap?

Remember Bing Crosby, Dolly Patin and Old Blue eyes, didnt write ANY of their songs or play instuments live. Listen to their recordings. Average singers at best. Now their legends! Also look at the lenth of their careers. Artist back then had more time to grow. The newbies are being judge to fast. Give them time.

Pop and Alternative aint all that right now either. They play instruments but the craft of songwritting is laching by far. Is anyone out there on the level of Elton John, The Carperters, Pink Floyd, John Cougar M, Billy Joel, Van Helen, The Who? Pop and Alt need big help too!

TheDreamingPeasant said:

I think this is a little unfair... It's true that any artist can get overhyped, and probably Erykah Badu did get a lot of this because of what she was seen to represent. But you are actually facilitating that process by promoting the idea that "real" music is in painfully scarce supply... It allows people to overvalue something that is seen as being representative of the "authentic", organic kind of music that you're craving. This has been a definite feature of the marketing of a lot of neo-soul artists, and I imagine it's a lot for anyone to live up to...


Well, a lot of the neo-soul set do come with this... I suspect you just prefer the "lyrics, band, music, personality" that Aerosmith present! Nothing wrong with that - I think they're a great rock 'n' roll band too. But I can't see how 'Love In An Elevator' is any more trenchant than 'On & On'...


I think Fiona Apple is a very gifted lyricist. Her second album has some really honest, reflective stuff on it (Love Ridden, Paper Bag, I'll Know, etc)... You're choosing to contrast her and Erykah along ethnic lines - which is one valid way of looking at it - but you could also find interesting commonalities (and differences) between them if you thought in terms of gender, as they are both representative of a generation of female songwriters (albeit of different ethnicities).

Erykah's 'Other Side of The Game', for example, with its (African-American) female perspective on the dominant image of "urban"/ghetto life, makes a valuable counterpoint to the male-dominated "gangster-isms" of a lot of Hip-Hop, etc... And 'Bag Lady' is also a really thoughtful piece... A lot of her second album is, to me at least, about trying to balance living up to the "positive" image, "representin'", etc, with just being a young, sometimes vulnerable, black woman trying to handle everyday life (relationships, children, politics, etc) and make the right choices... To me that's a welcome addition to the kind of "mmm-hmm, girlfriend" image that tends to gets fed to us from TV, music, etc... Just as Fiona's is an intelligent voice, which contrasts sharply with the annoying, "girly" perspective of Britney & co...

Prince can write great lyrics too (If I Was Your Girlfriend, When Doves Cry, etc), but I'd much rather listen to the stuff of Erykah's (or Fiona's) that I've mentioned than, say, ICP&C, which I see as being meaningless nonsense, with thinly-drawn characters and little relevance to anyone's life...


I'd question this... Malcolm X was assassinated in February 1965. Jimi Hendrix's first album was released in May 1967, preceded by a single, 'Hey Joe', released in December 1966.

Well, I saw this on A&E Biography. It was Malcolm X or one of those other pro-black leaders. I could have sworn it was Malcolm X's name that was said....

And with that said, ON & ON is nowhere as good as Love in An Elevator, not even Rag Doll. What Badu says is silly. What Badu writes in, say, 5 minutes, would be mediocre to say what Prince can write in say, 5 minutes. Some artists are geniuses and some are not and most of the time NEO-SOUL artists (Angie Stone and the rest of 'em) seem to be more pretentious than genius).

And, to me, Badu's music is not a fresh voice to the R&B that is out today. She said it herself that her music is sophisticated gangsterism (what nonsense!) and she is basically saying the same thing Beyonce is saying, just in more "wanna be deep" phrasing. Britney Spears and Fiona are no where alike and I doubt people would compare them. But Badu and Beyonce, both singers singing about the same ol' drama.



Well, why is Badu worried about "representing" -- Fiona and those others aren't. Fiona isn't trying to be Spears. Only in R&B music -- the singers always have to be worried about "Keeping it ghetto" (aaugh!)

Badu and 'em think they're "clever ... when [they] bust a rhyme..." but really, it's not so clever. Especially Musiq, he thinks he's clever, but, um, those lyrics suck. I can't get an R&B album without running into some "ghetto" something all of the time... sheesh.
[This message was edited Sat Aug 7 13:39:44 2004 by TheDreamingPeasant]

TheDreamingPeasant said:

Some artists trade off their reputation as geniuses to make up for releasing rubbish that sounds like they knocked it out in 5 minutes....! (see 'Life O The Party', 'Musicology', etc, etc....)


Yeah, it was a pretty weak comparison, I admit. Sorry, couldn't think of a better one at the time.... The point I was trying to get at is that part of the appeal of someone like Fiona, could be that she is also seen to represent something: "integrity", perhaps? And this might be looked at in contrast to some other female artists, in particular, who are happier to be moulded to fit into a certain girly image... I recall reading an interview with Fiona, where she said that the annoyance, that culminated in her infamous speech at the MTV awards, came as a result of her feeling like people had misinterpreted the lyrics/video of 'Criminal', and thought she was trying to portray that submissive image! ("I've been a bad, bad girl...", etc...) I'm sure she's trying to "keep it real" in her own way....

So you see that there are prevalent cultural images/narratives (e.g. about what being black "means", or being a woman, etc) that artists - and other people - have to at least engage with, or comment on sometimes... Often people create something interesting by rebelling against the dominant image, although sometimes that can get dull too after a while....


But maybe they don't want to get "shunned" (like Jimi) by their community...? Maybe record companies are only interested in promoting acts that embody the stereotypes that are out there, or the prevalent 'alternatives' to them (i.e. gansta-rappers vs. "conscious" rappers, or the rnb equivalent)....? But I think these are questions that are worth trying to answer (Why is there a pressure to conform? Is this more acute for black artists? Why?), rather than simply posing it rhetorically....

Prince never quite fitted into a set "box", but maybe that option isn't really there for new artists, anymore....? Perhaps that's why Prince hasn't really managed to "fit in" for the past 10 years...?