you said it, kisscamille :"(IMO)".

in your opinion tony was good. in prince's opinion tony was good. in my opinion tony was not.

prince isn't infallible, y'know. he's made all sorts of lousy decisions over the years about all sorts of things. i'll bet you couldn't agree with *everything* he's ever decided to do. i happen to disagree with his choice of tony m for rapper (despite the couple of highlights i mentioned above).

I'm new on Prince.org so its probably not the wisest thing to open up with.....but f*ck it!

For me the LoveSymbol album is the biggest load o shyte the man has ever released!!!!! I really can't understand why it's so highly rated....

Don't get me wrong, theres a couple o trax I like, and some of the other songs start well, but then get ballsed up by a rap halfway through.....2 the 9's being an example...

I dunno what's the deal with TONY M and the fans...

He is the ONLY rapper I can handle the rappin'.

I think one of the best NPG jams was "Johnny".

Just about every rap he cruises on is fine by me.

* Imagine NPS with Tony in it...Would be MUCH better !!! *


.

Smiley said:

Ther is no deal with Tony and the fans, just THESE fans. The silent majority are starting to speak up in support of the man who all these whiners have been picking on for years, and about time too.

yeah, nikeze, it's a pretty silly album, i'd agree. highlights for me are:

the max
i wanna melt with u
sweet baby

... and although there's some other ok tracks, not that many stand out, i could take em or leave em... arrogance has potential but is too short! a lot of the ok songs are really on a par with each other... why pick favourites? they're all... y'know... OK...

Sorry bout this double post, but I CANNOT imagine "WILLING AND ABLE" without Tony's Rap, nor "LIVE 4 LOVE" two of my fav trax on this album...


"MY NAME IS PRINCE" is good, be becomes HILARIOUS with TONY's Rap >wink 2 JAKKO da WAKKO...KING OF POP...<
You gotta B a Prince B4 you'r A King Anyway!!!!!

NO ONE could have laid this line like TONY did!!!


* I m gonna say this...I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO HEAR TONY KICK IN FROM TIME TO TIME INTO A JOINT, A special guest appearance!!! *


.

We are all entitled to our opinion my friend. If I was stranded on an island, the symbol cd would be there with me.

Tony M.sounds like he got hit in the jaw by a bus....What a waste of vinyl HE was. Prince just had bad taste in rappers back then. Anyone remember that hideous Paisley album by TC Ellis?!

For years I've been touting as being second only to TGE in the 90s. It is a truly brilliant album. That having been said, it DOES suffer from the presence of Tony M. Tony was, at best, a second-rate MC Hammer. He's not quite so bothersome on tracks like "The Max" and "Sacrifice Of Victor", where his contibutions are essentially backing vocals. He becomes quite annoying when he shows up on "My Name Is Prince", "Sexy MF" and "The Flow". Granted, Prince used him far less on this disc than he did on D&P, and that is definitely to its benefit. Still, the album falls short of the masterpiece it could have been by the inclusion of Tony's very dated style of rap. Much of stands the test of time, sounding very fresh today. Unfortunately, Tony's contributions remind you, "oh yeah, this was 1992!". Tony was a rather weak attempt by Prince to connect with the hip-hop scene at that time (essentially trying to get the MC Hammer/ Vannila Ice audience from that time period).

Still, the rest of the disc is superb. The songs are very strong, and incredibly funky. There are so many songs that SHOULD have been singles on this album it is unbelievable. Anyone else think "The Max" and "The Continental" could have been hits?

LaVisHh said:

strokin' and smellin'??? ....sounds like you turnin into hardcore porn

LaVisHh said:

strokin' and smellin'??? ....sounds like you turnin into hardcore porn

either way, the album HAS to be one of his most underrated... "2 the 9s," "Sweet Baby," "Damn U," "7," etc will all be revisited some day and appreciated for the gems that they truly are.

GET WILD! (and Loose)

Smiley said:

They;re from D&P, not from 0(+>.

What xactly is it that U people like about the 0(+> album?

I find it pretentious, boring and over-done.

There are only a few songs on there that are any good and those r mainly the ballads that Prince can do in his sleep.

7 was a cool song. And "The Sacrifice of Victor" was pretty cool, if only 4 the auto-bio lyrics.

U can't seriously tell me that U find songs like

Arrogance
The Flow
3 Chains O Gold
I Wanna Melt With U
Blue Light

to be amongst his best work of the 1990's, right?????


And what about a songs like "My Name Is Prince"? That's something a group like 'Steps' do, resorting 2 stating their own name in songs 4 about 45 times in less then 3mins.

I've had the album lying around here ever since it was released and I gave it numerous listens but I still don't really like it.

It's a complete grab-bag of Kitsch.

Not 2 mention the preposterous video that was released 2 go with the album. Oh my god.

I mean, I'm gay, and the only thing I like about that whole 3 chains of gold video was watching Mayte. I think that says it all, right there

I think that most people's distaste for Tony M dates from D&P (which is a mediocre overly-commercial album). His contributions 2 the symbol album are much more logical and fit in with the ideas of the songs. It's not: "prince is trying to do rap" like some of D&P was. I think he uses Tony M more effectively on Symbol (OTOH i happened 2 b listening 2 a live version of Sacrifice while reading the post, and it's WAY better w/o Tony).

Don't y'all think that P chooses band-mates who r great musicians but will always pale next 2 him? This doesn't matter so much in most cases, but the prominence of Tony's raps kind of highlights it. (The exceptions r horns, coz he can't do that. He also seems 2've got over this problem and, altho' the song's weak, hearing Chuck D on a Prince record still gets me excited).

He also seems 2 have had some issues about rap. Back in '90 I played "Dead On It" 2 a friend and explained 2 him that P's taking the piss out of BS rappers. But then he toured Oz 4 the 1st time in '92 with the D&P tour, and this same mate of mine comes 2 me and says: "I thought P didn't like rap. All that rapping wrecked the concert."

I've always thought that P was better off sticking with what I call "MPLS rap" like Cat's on Alphabet Street and Supercalifragisexy. I mean, even the end of Let's Pretend We're Married is a kind of rap.

P always feels he needs 2 take whatever's at the top of the charts and show that he can do it 2, only better.

Pce

To xenaphobiac - it's a great cd with full fat funk bustin out the speakers. It's just that damn Tony M , thank God he didn't rap on 7. By the way don't you rate 'and God created woman' as a truly classic song.

Well, yes, "And God Created Woman" is just a perfect song.
As is "Damn U" and I do like "Sweet Baby" a lot. I just don't like those uptempo songs on it. They seem forced.

to Xenaphobiac- must admit when i first heard 'my name is Prince' i cringed but changed my mind on the tour with Mayte coming down on the Trapeeze, a good lesson in how to interpret a song live and give it some cred methinks.

Symbol is the 2nd best album he released in the 90's, Gold Experience is best. Tony M spoiled nothing.

I saw that tour and the first half was all the symbol album, after the intermission it was all hits. Noone seemed to mind which proves how great an album the symbol album really was. Coming out to My Name Is Prince with chains in his face. CLASSIC!

I grew up with hip-hop/rap and let me tell you Tony M is below substandard. However, as somebody said, when P limited him to a chorus (i.e. The Max) it worked well. I still cringe when I hear him rap on Sexy Mf I think it is, when he gets to that "ign...ign...ignorant" part. I mean, damn, that's got to be one of the worst moments of musical history ever recorded.

DMSR said:

I liked it too!

DMSR said:

Please tell me you're kidding!!! Nelly?? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!! He (and pretty much everyone else on there ) made the "What's Goin' On?" tribute UNLISTENABLE! As bad as Tony was (and yes, he was bad, especially live; though, a few spots were OK like Gett Off on MTV and a couple of raps like Willing & Able and Sexy MF, I guess), Nelly would've been HORRIBLE! He should keep his country ass in St. Louis!

Tony sucked, he was like an old, out of style hip Hop artist. Like a Sugar daddy pimp that wears pink pumps, they just dont mix.

LaVisHh, you not only stroked his silk. Honey you grabbed that ass, don't lie. I know you and that motorcycle jacket you bought at the Glam Slam retail shop.

[This message was edited Wed Mar 13 12:11:21 PST 2002 by LaVisHh]

I'm no fan of Tony M., but I have to say that I can't imagine the Symbol album without him on it. I agree with a lot of the detractors on this thread - it's a pretentious, tacky, kitschy, overblown album - but that's exactly why I love it. This is Prince's "kidney-shaped swimming pool" album - the greatest record of his excess as an artist. Tony M. and his top-40-rapper-wannabe "style" was derivative to the point of almost being embarrassing, but that quality was perfect for this album, which was all about pomp and breast-beating and flash.

Now don't get me wrong - I think there are some substantial gems on this album. All the same, I LOVE songs like "I Wanna Melt With U", simply because they're silly and ridiculous and fun.

I can't believe this thread has gone this far without mentioning "Vanessa Bartholomew (sp?)!" Maybe it's just me but, those segues (sp?) were the first time I ever skipped through anything on a Prince CD. As much as I love to hear Prince just speak, that mess was so cornball I could not/can not stand it. I could put up with Tony (take or leave him) but not VB.

(VB and Wedding Feast hit this nerve in the back of my spine in such a wrong way I cannot believe it came from Prince.)

I also saw the Symbol Tour in 1997 and totally agree that the first half seemed forced in a way, very over planned. The second half was incredible.

I sure don't like Tony either, and boy were us Swedes relieved when they were on tour and did a show here in Stockholm and Prince gave the boys the night off, we didn't have 2 see them! That was great, and I have yet another reason to thank Prince, as if his music isn't enough already...

aw man, read the lyrics to Tony's rap on My name Is Prince. wtf is he talking about??? & what does it have to do with "My Name Is Prince"? I have been editing Tony M out of Prince comps since D&P & to me, the songs sound like his parts shouldn't have even been there.
I think it works in Sexy MF, but just stickin' a rap part into a song to get some rap in there got old REAL fast for me. & wtf was P thinking on I Rock Therefore I Am?? eek
I was VERY excited about P & Chuck D doing something together. Chuck being such an inovative rapper/lyricist & P being having struggled for years with the music industry I was sure that they would whip out a hot jam w/ the two of them banging off some fierce interaction. Instead, P just tacked a Chuck guest spot on the end of Undisputed. I liked it, but the potential that was there...
Reminds me a little of George Clinton not having a single spoken line in the Graffitti Bridge movie.. huh?