Given the lyrics to United States Of Division.

Did we ever have any proof that Prince was not "cool" with gay people?

FunkMistress said:

I haven't observed any direct evidence, although others believe they have.

I do believe there was a time when Prince's mindset appeared to be less open-minded than I had always assumed. This period coincided with some of his most forthright views regarding 'the truth'. Things seem more balanced nowadays.

FunkMistress said:

We have the quote from Wendy in the Star Tribune but then she said it seemed like he had changed.

if prince has ever been "uncool" with me at any given time, i can assure you it's had nothing to do with his gay-friendliness (or reported lack thereof). no amount of backpedaling will ever undo the whole vibe of sexual freedom he radiated throughout the first half of his career, and to some extent, even with the JW influence, i think he still hints at that freedom on certain levels, piety be damned. so let him say what he likes (or what larry likes, or whatEVER) - i'll just throw on "lovesexy" and get the real deal.

Anxiety said:

The concept of Lovesexy appears to be about euphoric feeling. It's very simply executed in terms of his beliefs. The Rainbow Children seems much more defined in terms of how his beliefs have evolved, and what his specifics are. To say that you'll throw on Lovesexy to get the 'real deal', seems strange in that respect. If anything, I would imagine Prince views Lovesexy as an immature, uninformed version of The Rainbow Children.

Anji said:

You imagine lots of things, I'm sure.

Anji said:

I agree with this statement

FunkMistress said:

Would you care to expand your thoughts?

Lovesexy was written over 15 years ago when the guy was only 30 and certainly less specific in how he promoted his beliefs. Given that The Rainbow Children was billed as the new Lovesexy, I think it's safe to assume the former reflects his beliefs more accurately than the latter.

Anji said:

no it wasn't. it might've been tagged that by some folks within the fanbase, but no, it isn't or wasn't.

Anji said:

How can you assume that TRC more accurately reflects his beliefs of 15 years ago? It accurately reflected his current beliefs, just as Lovesexy did when it was recorded. For some folks, the spiritual vibe of Lovesexy still rings true. I know it still puts my name upon my thigh.

My earlier statement was in response to your "imaginings" that "Prince views Lovesexy as an immature, uninformed version of The Rainbow Children." I have not heard that from anywhere other than your imagination, where I'm sure it lives among all kinds of wonderful things.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

I remember reading Prince say something to that effect within an interview, or news piece, presented on the official boards at the club.

Anji said:

you positive about that? because for all i know folks coulda been making comments within whatever thread it was. and if it was said within an interview chances are that i woulda seen it here, but there's no such one.

i don't believe you.

When people start looking into the biblical teachings they grasp onto what there bible tutor tells them or the one simple passage and can take it all out off context. (read the entire passage and its true context not one scripture in my humble opinion, remember the book was written and re-written by man many times since it was first written. The many interpretations out there Christianity made in an attempt to control the people but hey that’s another topic i think)

New bible students take many years to understand the bibles teachings some feel if they make a noticeable stance on certain teachings they will be more accepted or pleasing to God, yet the bible actually tells us none of us have the right to judge another only the creator will. it can get rather confusing for some it all depends on that person mind set that’s learning.

As to The Rainbow Children it is certainly not the new lovesexy, i do believe it was some fans that stated this, i can not ever remember reading that prince actually thought this way, or said it in a interview, but hey i may have missed it.

If it wasn’t for Lovesexy there would be no TRC

As to prince i really don’t give a hoot what the guy thinks i dig his music that’s where it begins and ends with me.

P.S Todays topic in chat at the club is:
Would u change ur gender if u could?

.
[This message was edited Tue Jul 20 9:51:06 2004 by katt]

FunkMistress said:

Perhaps it would be easier for you to digest if I included the word current within my last point:

"Given that The Rainbow Children was billed as the new Lovesexy, I think it's safe to assume the former reflects his current beliefs more accurately than the latter."

Both are albums of a spiritual and religious nature. Given that one album is over 10 years older than the other, and that Prince himself has become a JW in the intervening period, I think it's safe to assume his more recent writings more accurately reflect his current beliefs. As to whether the spiritual vibe of Lovesexy still rings true for anyone, is really besides the point. We are discussing what the 'real deal' is according to Prince.

I should also say that I don't perceive The Rainbow Children to be promoting completely alternative or opposite views to Lovesexy, as many people do. If anything, I see TRC as a maturing and defining record; an extension, as opposed to a replacement.

hold it--what was the initial topic about this whole thing again?

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

It fell flat on its face with nothing to back it up.

So why not haul out the ol' "Lovesexy vs. TRC" instead?

what are the lyrics to this song, I havent purchased it.

Anji said:

So what you're saying is, an album recorded in 2001 was better at expressing beliefs he held in 2001 than an album recorded in 1988?

Agreed! See ya.

FunkMistress said:

Discussions are free to go to related areas, no? Anxiety referenced Lovesexy, that's why we're here. Perhaps once the lyrics the United States Of Division are referenced, we'll move back on topic.

Anji said:

imagine away!
lovesexy ain't an uniformed or immature version of anything,
and it sure ain't an inferior version of the rainbow children.
one could easily imagine it the other way around.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

word up.

Tom said:

Tom i am unsure if this is the real lyrics:

United States of Division by Prince
(Virtual B-Side to "Cinnamon Girl")
From the NPGMC's Musicology Download Store

2004...still at war
and everybody hates americans

flying in an aeroplane with pen in hand
over miles and miles of deep blue
wondering if it was all part of a master plan
forget the one and become two

how could your brother hear the same music
yet somehow dance to a different tune
i guess that once you go divide this precious land
this precious land will divide you

sang
do do do do-do-doo
do-do-do-do do-do-doo
do do do do-do-doo, doo
everybody stop fighting

do do do do-do-doo
do-do-do-do do-do-doo
do do do do-do-doo, doo
everybody make love

driving a brand new cadillac in my neighborhood
everything still looks the same
everything except the fact i wish i could
take away all the hurt and pain

we let "Superfly" straighten up our curly hair
we took the afro out the game
it's kinda cool but the guns and drugs too much to bear
ten years later "Scarface" came

sing the hook
do do do do-do-doo
do-do-do-do do-do-doo
do do do do-do-doo, doo
everybody stop fighting

do do do do-do-doo
do-do-do-do do-do-doo
do do do do-do-doo, doo
everybody make love

(bridge)
the united state of mind will never be divided
the real definition of unity is one
people can slam their door, disagree and fight it
how you gonna love the father but not love the son

united states of division

walking down the street no flag in hand
no stars and stripes, no claim to land
no crescent moon, just a holy man, holy man

how far from heaven must we go
before the winds of change will blow and show
this world how it's supposed to be
land of peace and harmony

c'mon
everybody stop fighting
everybody make love
everybody stop fighting
united states of division

people can slam their door, disagree and fight it
how you gonna love the father but not love the son

united states of division
black
division
white
division
straight
division
gay
division
christian
division
muslim

why must i sing god bless america
but not the rest of the world (oh say can you see)
i love my country, but i love god more
every man woman boy and girl

can you sing with me
do do do do-do-doo (c'mon)
do-do-do-do do-do-doo (everybody)
do do do do-do-doo, doo
everybody stop fighting (put your gun down)

do do do do-do-doo (hey)
do-do-do-do do-do-doo (everybody gather 'round)
do do do do-do-doo, doo (gather 'round)
everybody make love

do do do do-do-doo
do-do-do-do do-do-doo (talk to me)
do do do do-do-doo, doo (what is this rush to declare war)
everybody stop fighting (what we fighting for)

do do do do-do-doo (hey)
do-do-do-do do-do-doo (oh)
do do do do-do-doo, doo (tell me baby)
everybody make love

talkin to the united states
united states
united states of division

everybody make music
everybody make love

FunkMistress said:

You appear to be upset.

Anji said:

Not at all.

Simply finding a handful of common ground and making my exit.

With a big smile, no less.

HiinEnkelte said:

Uninformed and immature do not necessarily have to have negative connotations.

It is quite possible that you yourself, HiinEnkelte, might reflect and describe something you wrote about and believed in 15 years ago, to be immature and uninformed compared to what you've learned and experienced since then.

Perhaps, it's just a growth process.

Anji said:

I hope this isn't YOUR personal opinion of Lovesexy. Immature and Uninformed Lovesexy is not. It's "general" in its concepts of spirituality yes...AS IT SHOULD BE. When we get into specifics of it, we get "religion" which a terrible concept. Kevin Smith said it best, "its better to have an idea than a belief....idea can be changed, while a belief is a little harder", hence why we have so much division in religions. He does give definitions of "wrong" and "right", "bad" and "good", "heaven" and "hell" which is definitely spiritually uplifting. It tells you that there is something out there that is much more than yourself. I wouldn't call it immature or uniformed just cause its not preaching a certain religion.

Anji said:

Still, other ppl out here share those same beliefs as Lovesexy or similar ones...would you consider THOSE ppl immature or uninformed? We are then, again, getting back to my point about religion setting definitive rules for belief which is not so. Anything below this, is immature or uninformed.

Yes, ppl grow and evolve, just like everything, but some ppl go in different directions due to experience and exposure. That doesn't neccasarily mean that ppl's beliefs evolve over time though which is your point.

Anji said:

Anji,
Could u post Prince's Lyrics or any recent interviews by him showing that he was not ok with gay ppl, cause i can only find one and that was a verry long time ago.

.
[This message was edited Tue Jul 20 10:43:56 2004 by katt]