For the past year or so, I've been trying to figure out what was missing from Prince's current band/choice of musicians and couldn't put my finger on it. I knew the band was tight but there was something....not necessarily bad but...something. After seeing Prince around 20x since '88 and catching a few Musicology shows (still going to a few more) I finally put my finger on it. The major difference now is the lack of material ownership of this band. This is the most clear distinction made on this tour compared to others. John Blackwell is arguably the tightest and most technical P drummer ever but after 4 years, he doesn't have his own Housequake, Dance On or Shhh to stamp as his own. He's a bad man, be he ain't touching what Mike and Sheila did to the same songs in their eras.

It seems as though Prince is cool with employing highly skilled cover musicians who can tread water rather than ones whose contributions help to define his output as well as the performances of that time. I say "cover" musicians because Prince bands, at least up to 1996, were mostly defined by the strength of the material they played. They didn't just do what the band before them did. Ex: The Revolution, Lovesexy Band and The NPG up to 95 and mid 96, were all known not only for their musical dexterity but for creating what would be definitive versions and arrangements for what was then new material. "New" material now consists of Musicology, the occasional Call My Name & Life O The Party for a nearly 3 hour show. Not saying that their musicianship is not of the same caliber, you'd just never know by the umpteen versions of Purple Rain songs being played. The ONA tour started with the hope of new and unreleased material being pushed to the fore. By the beginning of the European tour, The Rainbow Children was sometimes the only "new" song played. In retrospect, I kinda chuckle when I hear Prince say "If you've come to get your Purple Rain on, hit the door now." It eventually turned into "If you've come to get your Purple Rain on, don't worry.....you know its coming!" LOL.

This particular band has been relegated to highly trunctuated and unimaginative "covers" of more inspired versions cranked out by their predecessors. This particluar lineup, while at times kickass, does not have a stamp of ownership the way the Revolution had over PR, ATWIAD or Parade live material. The same applies for the Lovesexy Band & the 95 NPG (I mention only 3 as they played more new material than any other lineups and were the best at playing music from their respective eras.) This, of course, goes back to Prince. His affinity for his old material is obvious and it should be. He's earned it! However, it seems the vaudeville musical arrrangements he takes a liking to these days, bastardizes his own music. Of course, he can...its his music. But dayum!!!!! What really took this home for me was what he's done, in particular, to When Doves Cry (which IMO was only done "right" on the Nude Tour) and Baby I'm A Star. What was once a stupid ("stupid is my own "funky") 10-20 minute electrofunk extravaganza has been reduced to a 3 minute oversynthesized post disco romp more at home as an opening for Sportscenter.

The Prince that understood balance, space and the golden rule of "less is sometimes more" seems to have taken a musical sabbatical. Just in the past 3 tours, the extremes are evident. The songs are either overplayed and overarranged or so nondescript you can't tell what it is until the lyrics are sang. One double timed "jam" leads into another with only lyrics distinguishing one from the last. Can 4 horns *really* do what just one solo from Eric used to?
[This message was edited Thu Jul 15 19:46:21 2004 by soulive]

I agree with this. This NPG band would have to be the best that he's got, but on record, nothing makes the group stand out. I would like a solo from Renato that puts him up there with fink's "Head" solo. I wanna hear an original beat /solo from Blackwell that's on par with Michael B's "Shhh". I wanna see if Rhonda can come up with a bassline that gives "777-9311" a run for it's money. I hope the next few records can display this, yes!

At the end of the day doesn't it come down to Prince and how he wants his music arranged and played by the live band?

Maybe his arrangements on this tour (while still great) are less imaginative than in the past.

I personally think the arrangments in the Lovesexy Band were the best and that was the zenith of everything he had done for the first ten years.

From what I've read Prince in the past kind of soaked up different things from his band members. The rock stuff from Dez, the funky basslines from Andre, the great drumming from Sheila, the different classical influences from W and L.

Prince could do these things on his own easily but I think there was that unconscious competitive aspect and all of that went into his music.

Now, he is pretty far ahead of his musicians and it's probably a straghtforward employer/employee relationship so he is probably more in a vacuum.

Or maybe he is giving the world the "Six Flags" version of Prince to sell records.
[This message was edited Thu Jul 15 6:27:23 2004 by cranshaw62]

I like and agree with this thread. Proving that you can have an objective view on Prince without the redundant " Prince sucks" line. I agree and I feel the Sott and Lovesexy bands were untouchable! To me, Eric and Atlanta had something magical and man them riffs they would play! However, those shows were grueling because they had to be so rehearsed and so on point many times there was no room for any spur of the moment creativity or spontaenity. Still listening to those shows give me goosebumps. This show too is very rehearsed and everything is moving right along to a schedule even the solos. It's okay though because even though this band is different it is accomplishing its task. I guess I'm just spoiled because any Prince band on any given era has been head and shoulder's above most everyone else's touring band.

Interesting point. Back in the 80's, it seemed like Prince was absorbing influences from his various bandmates. I'm wondering if he's as open to other bandmates ideas and input nowdays, or does he just hire them as robots to play whatever he hands them. From a technical standpoint theyre all good players, but they don't seem to be lending much personality to prince's music.

dnaplaya said:

Funny.

At the Bataclan show in 2002 I thought it was obvious Prince was feeding off his band, especially Renato, who seems to give the band a firm synthesizer ground to funk on. His solo's on songs like The Question Of U and jams like the ones on C-NOTE clearly indicate that he and all band members have firm footing in this New Power Generation.

Three quarters into the set at The Bataclan Prince and Renato dive deep into this keyboard jam that shows both enjoy playing with eachother and that spark creates good music. There was a reason Prince got him into the band; he was heading into the jass/fusion area, an area Renato excels in.

The problem is that most people here seem to want the OLD Prince. That was THEN, this is NOW and this Prince is as sharp as before, but in a different way.
The music Prince is playing is different, so you get a different kind of music. Back in the day Prince had things to prove, like he was the baddest, meanest, sexiest dirtiest groover around. That, to an extent, has changed. No more motherfucking lyrics.

It's all about the music, mr. If you open up your mind to the music you might find yourself trippin' without the need of alcohol or other stimulants. Purple Music.

Two Words:

Renato Neto


Best keys he ever had. Ads tremendous new depths and flavour to P's music and has a
style so much his own that it actually made P's music sound different.

Especially during the ONA tour on the jams they played, Renato sometimes floored me
with performances that seemed unreal.

Shame Prince didn't give him a bigger role on any of the albums up until now. He could
do some great kick ass solo stuff and background noizes.

Tom said:

This is so funny. TRC, C-NOTE and N.E.W.S. might not be everyone's cup of tea, but at least listening to that you exactly know WHY Prince has assembled the band he is playing with now. They are all cross over musicians.

I am now off listening to my Arto Lindsay tapes. Dunno who he is? Check him out, his music kinda connect with the music Prince is playing now.
He even recorded a version of Erotic City on his Mundo Civilizado album. First time I heard I thought; the dude can sing, but it's got layers....awww

And then put on the remix album Hyper Civilizado and then you are hip. Hip to the fusion jazz funk Prince is playing NOW.

IstenSzek said:

We so agree on this.

Nice to see you on the forums, btw. We missed you.

I personally couldn't disagree with you all more. Its funny because I was at the show monday the 12th and I was talking to a few different NPGMC members during the coarse of the show and after the show and we came to the conclusion that this was as good if not alittle better than the lovesexy and signo the times concerts. Don't get me wrong I loved them all, but to me this band is so tight and crisp that as much as I want to say that this band can't compare to his bands of old, I can't. I you just listen to the music alone that will sell you, or at least me.And then add on to that each persons talent and showmanship. They take these songs to another level because their that good if you see what I'm saying. The greastest thing about this band to me is that all of these musicians are great and successful in their own right, they don't need Prince to be great , they already are.And I think that Prince understands this and this is why in my opionion I think that he likes this band so much. His past musicians were good, but without him they were gone.I understand that it is all a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that this band is great.

Disagree.

Blackwell IS the drummer on TRC. In fact, aside from horns and one or two songs here and there, Blackwell is the ONLY musician OTHER than Prince on that album.

Further, Xpectation, C-Note, NEWS have huge contributions from the band.

As for Rhonda, the bassline on The One is hers.

That's why the Revolution is still his most important band he's ever had. They were awesome live and in the studio, well Prince and Wendy and Lisa were awesome in the studio. Revolution wins EVERY time.

There is probably some truth to this on the current tour which is of "greatest hits" mostly, which this band didn't help create. However, when seen in soundchecks and aftershows this band really shows its talent and versatility, especially Renato and Blackwell.

I also might add, as is mentioned above, that Blackwell did nearly all the drums on TRC including the brilliant "Everywhere".

EverlastingNow said:

-----
Put down the crackpipe. The Revolution was crushed by the Sign/Lovesexy band. The Sign/Lovesexy band was crushed by this NPG band.

laurarichardson, You hit the nail right on the head. Prince keeps moving on because he has to keep finding musicians that can keep up with him. Like I said earlier, this band are superstars in their own right, with or without Prince. Now when you put all of this talent all together, come on who can touch this band? I loved the revolution, but come on yal. This is 20 years later and this band is not to be touched by any band that I have seen out there today.

My bad, The computer froze. don't kick me when I'm down.LOL

laurarichardson said:

Speaking of crack...get your head out of yours. I said ALL THE WAY AROUND including studio. Name a band member since Wendy and Lisa that has co-written songs on the same level as Sometimes it Snows in April, 17 Days, Mountains, Power Fantastic, and many more. No one has a sound like the Revolution did live, no one. Go listen to the Parade tour and learn something.

I agree with the topic of this thread. There really hasn't been a band since the Revolution and the Lovesexy band, that had the right time-right moment, all on the same page, and one accord chemistry as these 2 bands ever did with him.

Nothing against the pool of talent he has now, but they are seriously lacking chemistry as well as ownership of songs.

The Revolution was definitely the most important band he's ever had. It was the only band that had a real "family" vibe. I think the Purple Rain movie had a lot to do with it because we all got to know them very well. The Lovesexy band was awesome too cuz they were like a work of art. They also had character like the NPG never did. After the mid 90's it seemed Prince just hired various session players to play his shit with him.

CalhounSq said:

co

EvilWhiteMale said:

I totally agree. Those band members were with Prince before and after the success of Purple Rain. 4 out 5 of the Revolution just didn't hear stories about being pelted with objects opening for the Stones they lived it. Plus, the Revolution got to see the world turn purple in 1984, they were at the premiere of the movies, at all of the award shows, and working in the studio with Prince (well Wendy and Lisa were). I remember going to see him on the Hit and Run 1986 tour and people were dressed like the Revolution. They hold a special place and when they played no other band sounded like them, purple music indeed.

soulive said:

Blackwell stamps his ownership on everything he plays. But the stamp of ownership you're looking for will never be there again, because in a lot of people's minds Prince is competing with his heyday '80s legacy. Whatever he does will always be compared with it, and in that context not only can't he win, but neither can his band. Had he stuck with the Revolution till this day that sound would have worn out and run into the ground long ago. The only constant with Prince is change.

Supernova said:

Blackwell is great, but I haven't heard him play anything that I didn't think Michael Bland could do. He's fun to watch but if you're just listening to him he's got nothing on Bland.

I'm one of the biggest fan's of the Revolution there is but I think disbanding them was the best for all of them. I can't imagine not having Wendy and Lisa's solo albums. All I've ever wanted was for him to play with them live from time to time or even do new music with Wendy and Lisa. And anyone who doesn't understand that with Prince there's constant change, shouldn't be a fan, PERIOD.

IstenSzek said:

I totally agree with this. I know Blackwell is a great drummer, and I loved the stuff he did on TRC. Assuming it's him on United States of Division, that's some good hard-hitting shit too, even if it is fairly straightforward.

But I think Renato has to be the most underrated member of the current NPG. It's a shame he doesn't get more highlights on this tour besides the riff from When Doves Cry. I've been floored by some of the things he's played as well, and the first one I remember is from the Xenophobia cut on the ONA Live EP that was floating around before the box set came out. He played one mean-ass solo, and it had all kinds of crazy sonic goodness going on.

Personally, I'd like to hear more music in the vein of Xenophobia, USoD, etc. Some hard hitting, crunchy stuff that will really let these musicians stretch out.

Well as with all things everything is entitled to their own opinion, but I would have to add that 90% of the time PRINCE is the only musician on the albums, so the STAMP being put on the records are his. For its time the REVOLUTION were unique and had that sound that no other band could have and the same could be said of LOVESEXY but PRINCE has gone on to other things, and is creating different sounds to complete HIS body of work. Its impossible to compare musicians to musicians especially during different time periods, but as far as the Craft of playing I have never heard a better band than the lineup there is now, I mean that horn section cannot be touched and the strongest members being John, Renato, and Rhonda. I have seen PRINCE 61 times now, and I have seen pretty much all the lineups, and its fun to see them grow as players when they are with Prince. Rhonda is a fave of mine since day one and its been great to see her grow and get her own chances in the band, she has been in since 1996 and hopefully she will stay on longer. As far as putting a stamp on something, Rhonda as an example, THE ONE all her, Many tracks on the TRUTH cd she plays BASS and helped write too. And just listen to her BASS lines on the ONA LIVE BOX, especially FAMILY NAME. So obviously when a magazine writes an article about PRINCE now its always in the shadow of PURPLE RAIN and the 80's. They havent heard any of the newer cds, like NEWS or XPECTATION or CNOTE or The Truth or ONA etc...U get the point, so I just look at an article like this and say "here we go again with....."

This is the best band P's ever had bcuz of Renato! The 93 version of NPG is right there bcuz of Sonny T. and Mike B. but a reeeeaaaal close 2nd in my eyes. This band better suits P in the Jazz Fusion forays that he's in2 now.

Then we all agree. All of his bands are/were great. You couldn't have one without the one before it.

EverlastingNow said:

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I think some of you are obsessed w/ The Revolution - let it end, people...