From the awkward bit in "Avalanche," to the even more awkward portion of "Dear Mr. Man," Prince sounds like he just read the Constitution for the first time like two years ago. It'd be one thing if he could drop references to amendments in songs and have them just sort of 'fit.' But - especially in the case of "Dear Mr. Man" - the way he tries to drop these little bits of knowledge just sound out of place...like a 13 year-old geeky suburbanite trying to write songs about his oppressive parents, and comparing this perceived injustice to some surface understanding of constitutional law with little or no regard for whether it sounds right in the song. Does anyone feel this way?

I think there's always more than a bit of naivety in most all of Prince's political stuff. When I take in his more "topical" songwriting, I frame it less as someone trying to teach his listeners something, but rather more as a student sharing the latest thing he's learned (which is due to change at any time).

KingSausage said:

The shit fits just like a glove!

ELBOOGY said:

Yeah, if the glove's upside down, shrunk five sizes too small, and is missing at least two fingers!!!

ELBOOGY said:

:caughtoffguard:...that didn't sound right, excuse me...

but yeah, i find it sorta awkward too.

Anxiety said:

that's exactly it, anx! it's like you get this overwhelming feeling, like as if prince were to run up to you with some history book and goin, "hey, look what i learned here...!"

Anxiety said:

Spot on!

Aside from the fact that he tends to anally rape the song's natural flow when he busts out his 4th grave Civics class lyrics, he also makes his political messages in WAAAAAY too straightforward language. And that's just weak from a guy who usually writes such cryptic and/or nonsensical shit (for better or worse). I mean, come on...quoting amendments word for word in a song? It's like some open-mic night at your local shitty college bar....

It has a nice flow though...

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Exactly. And what's sad is most of the time my reaction is "You JUST found this out, Prince??? Shit, you'd best go back to talking about Stauros and crosses and that other bullshit..."

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Nope,i figured part 2 would start up soon!

KingSausage said:

"this ain't no excuse for fallin asleep in social studies back in high school, c'mon now...."

but on the real side, it's nice that he's learnin about stuff...now if only he can go back with his final essay for the semester and rework it a little bit before handing it in...

Anxiety said:

i've been trying to say this for years, but you've just put it more succinctly and eloquently than i've been able to manage. that's perfect, Anxiety.

Exactly. Thanks for sharing, Prince, but give it a moment's pause before you start trying to 'wow' the world with your new knowledge. Otherwise, you might start talking about the Moors and rhyming "libraries" with "universities" again....

I don't think P is just now coming in2 this knowledge. I think that he feels the need 2 say it now! He really has been saying political stuff 4 years "People Without" "$$$Don't Matter","Sacrifice of Victor"," Ronnie talk 2 Russia","America". It all seems 2 flow well in my eyes. How do u feel about Golden Parachute?
[This message was edited Tue Jul 6 17:10:30 2004 by ELBOOGY]

KingSausage said:

...oy, you had to bring up the Moors...

ELBOOGY said:

Yeah, he's been saying political stuff for years, but even looking back on the days of "Ronnie Talk 2 Russia", it seems like his message has never been quite 100%. I mean, cool, he can be topical, but it's rare that I've ever gotten any kind of clear insight from the political stuff he's written. Either what he's trying to say is muddled and full of non sequiturs, or his lyrics will contradict a song he wrote just a couple of years previous. Don't get me wrong, I think Prince is as fascinating and as inspired as all get-out when he gets all "Militant Midget" on us, but Chuck D. he ain't never been.

ELBOOGY said:

I wonder how folks come to that conclusion too.

Supernova said:

well, it did take him 20+ years to show it off, if he had indeed known these things before.... prior to about 2000, his political lyrics rarely strayed too far from the "can't we all just get along" cliche.


he excelled at that, and i wish he'd stuck with it. that's why i prefer the cliche of USofD over, say the mind-boggling nonsequitirs of Dear Mr. Man.


maybe in 20 years, he'll have nailed this sort of song as well

ELBOOGY said:

I think Golden Parachute is an example of a very nice lyrical and more subtle way of discussing a subject that is so sensitive. I think that sometimes he feels that subtlely is the way to go in discussing his views on politics and other serious issues, and other times he finds that being very direct, almost crude, is the best way for him to express his view. I think both have their place, and appeal to certain people at certain times.

GrayKing said:

And from that it's deduced that he just learned these things...great logic.

omg, u people PLEASE!

Prince is learning about his past as part of his Kingdom Hall teachings.

That is where all the Family Names, Dear MR Mans and the USofD's come from. He is rebelling against a common vision that is just as deluded as the one he presenting to us, that is why it seems so warped in our view.

Also, the facts he tries to lay bare are sugared with a "We are the NPG/We are TRC" coat. That makes his messages sound awkward.

KingSausage said:

I really like the way he does it in Dear Mr. Man. It DOES stand out, but I think it was meant to. Although many of us know the US Constitution, I think Prince knows that a large part of the population doesn't bother with "boring" things like Politics, and is teaching them, in a rather basic way, things they probably didn't know, and definitely should. I've always liked Prince's political songs, all the way back to Ronnie Talk 2 Russia.

Just my three cents (damn inflation).

Luv & Peace,
Alex
Clubbin' in Mpls/A Night w. Prince

Supernova said:

considering how many hundreds of songs by him we've heard, the fact that these types of things only turn up in his music after 20+ years, it is quite logical the deduce that he's just learned them. The Cross being turned into The Christ, and him railing against christmas and birthdays only a few months after Larry Graham showed up on the scene is a good example.

sloopydrew4u said:

that's true. but i just wish that if he was going to try to teach something, he either had it right or the lyrics make sense. those two concepts don't regularly show up together in the same song.

GrayKing said:

Not necessarily. It just means he's come around to write and/or record about them more often now. Writers in the arts in general don't always put their stances about certain things out there for the world to see and hear automatically after arriving at their conclusions. I'm not saying this is definitely the case with him, I'm saying it COULD be.

If I all of a sudden made more posts that covered more political ground in that god forsaken forum on Prince.org it sure as hell wouldn't mean I just recently came to my conclusions.


I'm not talking about the religious content.

Anxiety said:

I feel ya. I do think that his relationship with Chuck D and even Spike Lee and Stevie Wonder has influenced him 2 speak out a little more, but i think it was always there!

To get more specific, the man has been dropping awkward references to the Constitution lately, something he didn't do before. More power to him, but when he tries to mend this new knowledge with his music, it hasn't been the smoothest, know what I mean???

Supernova said:

point taken. but on that last part, the only logical deduction to make would be that you just recently lost your mind




i think it was an appropriate example of the sort of thing we're talking about, though. politics and religion are pretty much the same thing to Prince.
[This message was edited Wed Jul 7 19:13:50 2004 by GrayKing]