I said:[misquote]...The TRUTH is so simple and yet most of you refuse to see it. It has NOTHING to do with Larry, Kirky, or the music scene's changing to exclude what Prince does. Prince is BORED. He has done everything musically that he CAN do and most of you have such high regards for him and his abilities that you refuse to accept that as an option. ...The problem is that instead of learning to ignore the output and find other songs & artists that suit your tastes, many of you expect Prince "DJ Rogers" Nelson to play what you want him to...Ultimately, only Prince is to blame for lack of WHATEVER in his music. He gets all of the credit when its good---he should get all of the blame when its not.[/quote]




AND I STILL HOLD TO THOSE POINTS.

A good coverage and point of view about Larry Graham and Prince is at the "Old School" at www.pureviolet.org
I think exactly the same way: Graham is a legend, a reference 4 bass players and a great showman, but he is a very embarassing influence 4 Prince. Do you think he did convinced Prince 2 become a JW?

Hey COD black people do buy rock cd's. I'm a black man and I own every Black Crowes Cd,Pearl Jam, and 2 Creed Cd's. I love Prince's rock as well as his funk. Why do we always try 2 label music? I love Larry Grahams old and new music. I loved him in concert in 1997 when he was opening for Prince in L.A., his bass solo was like hearing Hendrix on bass, unbeleviable!!! I love when he plays bass in Prince songs and in concert, but I also cannot stand his influence on Prince offstage. Long ago Prince wanted black,white,puerto rican all just a freakin. Now I think he may be single-ing out his white fans a bit. I love him being pro-black, but theres a way 2 say things w/o offending a certain race of people. Since LG has been around, the race issue has been front and center, against the white man. I think Prince needs 2 take a step back think about the way he wants to express his views on race.
Rock,Funk,Jazz.....I don't care as long as it's done well. All I want is new music from Prince, TRC was great just not enuff 4 me. It's about time 4 a 3 disc cd from da man!!!!

I love Larry - I just wish he'd get over the JW crap, and stop brain-washing our little Prince.

Okay, here I go.

What I believe the majority of you in this thread has not been able to recognize is what you have been listening to for the past few years when it comes to The Brother. Therefore, I will spell it out.

You have been listening to F.R.E.E.D.O.M.

Yes, there has been a change in The Brother and his music. He is free. Freedom is a wonderful thing. I only wish we all had it. Instead most of us are caught in a Slave mentality that only allows to do and accept what we already know. We want things to remain that way. The change or freedom allows us to do for ourselves. But we are so used to being a Slave that we don't know what to do when Freedom comes our way.

Freedom is all that is in The Brother and his music. He is on tour right now. Who is sponsoring it? No, not Budweiser, Warner Bros, Pepsi or MGD, its him. He now has the Freedom to perform what he likes, how he likes, when he likes. So he does what he likes.

When he was with Warner, he had to do what they liked. Even though he fought it to some degree, he was still under a contract. Freedom is what allowed him to do it his way. We know this is true because there are many songs that Warner did not want him to release on an album. Instead he had to release them as B-sides. Now, his B-sides have become A-sides. Freedom does that.

This is not to say he changed some of the lyrics on songs because of this freedom. It was the Freedom that helped him grow and realize the lyrics needed to be changed. People can not grow in a vacuum. If the sky had a ceiling, trees would not grow as tall. Freedom is the thing that makes all things possible.

Now what is our problem? We are still slaves. What I have learned is that a Free man is just that. It is something I want to attain. No, I might not go in the same direction as The Brother. Then again, as a Free man, I can go in any direction I please. I can even change directions in mid-stream and not worry about it.

L.G. really has nothing to do with what you are hearing or seeing now. Freedom is to blame. It is this Freedom we should try to preserve. It is this Freedom we should try to attain. It is this Freedom that must be. Dig?

COI

WOW for peeps who do nothing but complain "LARRY GRAHAM" is the funkiest soul man that is living in this era...U YOUNG SAPPLINGS have no cooth to know xactly WHAT FUNK IS...LARRY GRAHAM I TIP my hat 2 ya...THANK U

Larry Graham is a fucking legend. He deserves respect. Those that hate on Larry are youngsters who were born in the 80s and dont know the history of funk.

Why does Prince play with Larry and cover all those old Sly Stone and GCS songs? Go to the library or record store and get the originals from Sly and GCS and you will hear almost everything Prince has ever done musically. Prince mirrors these guys closer than Little Richard, James Brown, Santana, or Hendrix.

As a human being, Prince is going to change and grow old like all of us. The reason he will stay relevant is because unlike othe rick legends he wont be in his 50s leaning on songs that made him famous 30 years ago. Like Miles DAvis, a true genius, Prince is changing with alomst every record and there is no regard to what will make a hit or sell alot.

The projects with Larry and Chaka were good. Chaka's record was easily the best one she had made in 15 years.

Absolutely nothing wrong with Mr. L.G. - he is a legend 2!

Sounds like he is a good friend 2 Prince.

I respect Larry, but I don't like anybody in Prince's band taking the limelight from Prince. That's what Larry does and I would rather see just Prince and his band and go see Larry G at his own show at the House of Blues or something. As far as the funk, I don't think Larry's influence is that funky at all, I think it's more gospel. I would much rather have George Clinton in the band than Larry. Compare "We Can Funk" to Larry's "Everyday is a Winding Road" and you can see where the funk is. Plus I woudl much rather see Prince play bass anyday!

thecloud9mission said:

Well, I asked pretty much the same question recently on the thread here at the Org (see the "Larry Graham Ate My Hamster" thread.

In about 150 posts there wasn't a single serious, valid grievance against Larry. Larry Graham is a funk king and deserve props.

Ian

Prince's musical decline started long before Graham entered the picture. To put that blame squarely on Graham's head is using him as a scapegoat. But recently Prince has picked up the ball and started making more cohesive and creative music.

A lot of these hardcore fans will blame Prince's religious leanings on Graham's influence, but Prince is a grown man. Sure, adults Prince's age can be influenced by certain things if they allow themselves to be. Prince has allowed himself to be.

And I do partly agree with Codshort: if Prince limited himself to pop/rock SOME of these folks wouldn't complain (I've seen the responses that Prince got with some fans with some of his rock releases lately - there IS a contrast in reactions). Because they're very clearly bringing up the descriptions of music they dislike, and it's never a pop/rock description.

Newsflash: ANY style of music can be creative if the creator decides to make it so. So to blame it on an entire genre that Prince has decided to emerse himself in is doing nothing less than revealing a narrow-minded viewpoint about your own dislikes. If you don't like Funk or R&B fine, that's your specific taste, but don't reveal your limited knowledge about it by describing the genres as inferior as some seem to be doing. Every genre is capable of having its merits.

It always seems like a lot of fans don't think Prince should ever grow and try different things musically. To be stuck doing one or two things for an entire career, as a musician, that's the most limiting thing you can adhere to. This is partly (I SAID PARTLY) why most of the mainstream would never always be into a musician like Prince: he's willing to change. Any musician who isn't willing to change directions, even if only a little, throughout a long career, isn't continuing to grow as an artist. But that's not looked upon fondly by a lot of fans who are more into the limitations of POP music.

The man is still evolving. People who aren't aren't probably won't relate. Had this been 1992 instead of 2002, I would not have said this. But it should be obvious to anybody that he's changing, and so is his music. Don't like the music? Fine, but don't tell me he hasn't recently been undertaking his music with more of a sense of urgency and purpose than in the last decade. And some seem to be really threatened by what he's singing about like it's somehow going to affect them. As an artist Prince did what he was supposed to do: write about his own viewpoint. You don't have to accept it to like the music. Just like you didn't have to accept it when he sang "The Cross", or put The Lord's Prayer in the middle of "Controversy".

The only thing I dislike about Graham's involvement is when he's singing on Prince's songs ("Everyday Is A Winding Road" is terrible), or bringing his nostalgic-laced entertainment to Prince's gigs - those type of things fuck up things where Prince was already fucking up music-wise by himself. He was erratic for a long time (and my theory on that reason is another story ENTIRELY). Now that Prince seems to be on a better track musically, the less Graham is involved in that music, the better. But Prince is always going to do what he wants, regardless. If he allows it it's on him.

Larry Graham the bass player, however, he's a giant.

hay i was born in the 70's and i loved sly from my mums record collection. But that was then this is now. If prince hadn't gone hiring is hero's again then we wouldn't be talking about it. correct me if i'm wrong but LG hasn't had a hit in years right? and i mean more years than Prince?

first do not Hate Larry..
do not believe the same Larry.
As far as Prince's music it was always was laced with his feelings of God..more or less.
It surely is not because of Jazz, roots, or black flow..
Not at all..
There is something..can't even find the words..
That do not like about Larry.
Maybe it was when they were on Larry King Show 2gether.
Again.. do not hate the man, there is just just something about him.

Roadhouse....folks like us (rock music lovers) are the exception, not the rule.

codshort said:

What could possibly be healthy about having a guilty conscience in order to become a better person? And furthermore, how were his sexual lyrics "negativity" That would make %90 of all R&b, past AND present, negative.

TheP said:

There is no doubt in my mind!!!

Life Sexy u all

BLACKMF said:

That is b.s. I love Sly and GCS, and I'm still sick of LG! The Jam is one of my favorite songs ever! I loved when Prince played Thank U... on the '98 tour, etc.

However, LG has not made any relevant music for 20 years! He may be a legend, but his time his past, and I don't think he adds anything to Prince's music.

Sonny T inspired the hell out of Prince's music in the mid-90s. Although he will never be the legend that LG is, he has some current ideas/inspiration that LG no longer has. IMO, Bring back Sonny T!

Heck, I love Stevie Wonder, but I don't worry about when his next album will drop because his time has past. It's the same with LG. I'll listen to their old albums forever, but I could care less if they ever release another album because their musical "inspiration" has past.

Anyways, the reason LG needs to go IMHO is because he brainwashed "Prince/" into "his little brother." Yes, Prince is 44, his own man, blah blah blah... He's also somebody who is still supressing a very traumatic event IMHO. My problem with LG is the fact that he swooped in when Prince was at his most vulnerable and pushed his religious agenda on him. Do all of you LG defenders think that David Koresh wasn't manipulative because most of his victims were willing adults? (I obviously don't mean that comparison literally--I'm just trying to point out that adult people can be manipulated when they are vulnerable.) I know others disagree with those who think LG has been such an influence... this is just my humble opinion.

ok... i'm a musician/bass player and i learned so much and owe so much to larry graham. but here's the prob, if u wanna call it that.
prince has been the biggest influence in my life, period.
him hooking w. larry has been a big disappointment.
from my perspective, larry has completed messed up prince's life and music. before prince, larry was relatively washed. he's been playing music and the bass the same way for the last 20 years. hooking with prince offered him a big house, a new album, time in the spotlight and brownie points w. the JW clan(for hooking prince).
prince goes from a openminded person to extremely closed-minded. mayte was probably getting creeped out by the whole scene so he lost her too. musically, sticking to the "roots" is the order of the day and almost everything
u hear him doing u've heard all before.
he's playing and singing great, as usual, but all u can feel are these vibes of intolerance, righteousness, and closemindedness. i'm sorry that this note is negative in tone but this is just how it seems from the outside, maybe i'm wrong but all i catch r bad vibes. congrats larry-
u brainwashed and stole one of the world's most brilliant, creative artists. and all in the name of god, but don't worry much worse damage on this earth has been caused my so-called christians.

jesus would not approve of your attitudes. rainbow children and banished ones--- need to come together as one.
Love4oneanother.

One more thing I'd like to add: I, for one, do not feel that Prince's music has been in a state of decline. On the contrary, I have found his latest work (including output throughout the 90's) to have been steadily improving.

By contrast, established artists like U2, who still sell a lot of records, sound increasingly the same, seeming to benefit minimally by years of output.

Prince has matured. His interest in family life, marriage, and business exist in stark contrast to his 1980's persona. And I am fine with that. Unfortunately, he's an angrier Prince than I would expect. For a man endowed with such talent and loved by so many, he has become more narrow in his religious and cultural scope than the young Prince.

Finally, I confess, the extent to which Larry had anything to do with this musical expansion and simultaneous religious and cultural myopia is beyond me. But Larry is known to be religious and affiliated with the JW faith, so he is definitely NOT part of the solution to my current problems with Prince.

codshort said:

Cod--I think I'm going to have to start a thread about Prince's rapping one of these days. I think he's pretty good, but most others think he's wack! But I feel what you are saying--I guess my problem with Eve is I'm not a big fan of the whole "Swiss Beats" production that she clings to. Her rapping isn't all that bad.

What exactly do P fams have against Larry Graham?

Let's put it this way. The relationship between LG and Prince is lopsided. The fans see it. Larry sees it (knicknaming Prince "baby brother"), yet doesn't appear to be distancing himself from the situation. In fact, didn't he move *closer* to Prince over the last couple of years? All signs point to Larry taking advantage of him, but to what end? That I don't know.

Knock Knock
Who's there?
It's Prince and Larry on JW duty

This notion that the reason some don't like Larry because Prince is now playing black music because of him is nonsense. Prince has always played black music, long before Larry showed up. So that's not it. Wanted him to join up with Wendy and Lisa has less to do with Larry (as this desire has also been around since Larry) then is does with some fans really loving that era of Prince music.

My problem with Larry comes from a religious point of view and some of the beliefs Larry is installing into Prince. Prince has always been religious..yes. But it was never in your face like it is now. It was always more subtle..under the surface. But now Prince is "in your face" religious. I'm also gonna go out on a limb and say that's he probably more intolerant of other views (his whole tirade aobut Santa Clause being Satan comes to mind). And I don't think most fans want this. It's fine if you believe that Christ is your personal savior; but not every one believes this.

I don't like him systemically editing his old songs to remove curses. Prince would have never done this before Larry came along and converted him. I though the whole argument of whether Christ was or wasn't really killed on a cross was pointless. But Prince went off and changed a whole song because of it. Just because Larry says so.

Yes, this is all cool if you're all as religious as he is and subscribe to his beliefs. But I'd rather he go back to playing that black music without trying to hit me over the head with god.

As a postscript..I thought TRC was a great album. Prince knows how to preach the message in a very entertaining way for sure. But it's very easy to pick at some of the message in TRC and have real problems with it if one wishes. It's a great album, but some of his views on it a very questionable IMHO

I amazingly agree with a large number of people on this thread.
it's not about the music, it's not about black or white, it's not about Larry ate my hamster, it's about Larry has helped prince make a lot fans feel uncomfortable while listening to his ramblings he so blatantly blast in your face. For sure one can be personally offended by some of the lyrics on TRC. Definetely not the same tolerant Prince from the past.

PEACE toCOI,

People want to be enslaved and when someone comes around to FREE your mind the masses of people then get scared.The TRUTH about many things is sung in my favorite 3 songs from TRC..... FAMILY NAME, EVERLASTING NOW, & LAST DECEMBER.

This point is lost on a bunch of people because when PRINCE was singing about oral sex & going crazy folks liked him.When he was dry humping floors he's the media darling.When Prince sung about Kiss he had the # 1 song.

Now when Prince sings about freedom & the truth , his music is buried under the next plastic teen group .
AMERICA!
HA, home of the brave.

Larry Graham has been riding Prince's coattails for to many years. He is talented musician of THE 70's - 1/4 of a decade ago. Rather see P hanging with Rick James.
LG has done nothing to inspire prince's latest works.
He's just collecting a check, bringin P down.
Be done wit him already "Damn"

Okay. Prince is a grown man, and if he meets someone who really influences him, and changes him, then well good for him! I mean maybe the Jehova's Witness Prince isn't the best Prince ever, but COME ON! Larry probably isn't that bad a guy. The only gripe I have against Larry is that I do think that his influence might have dulled down albums like New Power soul. But U can't blame Larry for The RainBow Children (which is my favorite album) becasue all Larry did (musically) is play bass in LAst December, and the work. lyrically, then yes, Larry is to blame, but only syllogistically. I can understan people not liking the JW lyrics(I myself was put off at first by them not being a christian) but U've gotta suck it up and look at TRC from a different perspective, try to relate POrince's beliefs to U'r own, insteasd of just looking at his. Or look at the numerous metaphors in TRC. This is the only thing I think people arte blaming Larry for, the Religion. And in that case, larry isn't BRAINWASHING him, JEEZ! So if anyone tells U anything new, and U agreee with it, then their brainwashing U?!
Oh and that stuff about people not liking LAerry becasue he made Prince's music moire 'black' is an ASS. ANyone who listens to Prince, knows that his styles come and go, and that to be a real p fan U have to listen to all the styles (pop, dance, rap(which is 'black') funk soul etc.) Besides, I'm sure Prince has many Black fans too, I mean, this isn't just a big group of white people who stomp around hating Larry Grahm for makibng Prince 'white'. I'm white, and personally I love ewhen Prince throws some soul, and R&B my way. So if Larry Grahgm lead to that, then thank you Larry!

FAMS do need help...serious help!!!!!









peace 2 the blondes

well, have you noticed that most of the posts here have nothing to do with Larry´s influence on the MUSIC? To me, Prince will always be a musician first. I never thought he was a great lyricist (some great moments on SOTT album, but his lyrics are usually average - if people can sing along to ´Rain is wet sugar is sweet, clap your hands, stomp your feet´ and other P songs written for vanity and Carmen, you cant complain about TRC). Most people here are annoyed about the JW thing, and not the music.
Personally, I didnt like LG´s influence on P´s MUSIC, specially because after 98 P started to play more retro funk stuff, and didnt stop playing Sly´s covers at concerts.
But again, I think that musically, Kirky did lots more damage to Prince´s career.

I sometimes wonder if some of Prince's current NPG member just tell him.."yada yada.. don't eat cow, Jehovah is savior..yada yada".. and the minute they get out of site from him they bite into a big phat cheese burger and just curse and are just bored with religion like most we do? You know at least one of those member eats cow.