KoolEaze said:

EugeneKnight said:

He did. He quit.

A lot of fan girls and fan boys who know precisely nothing about the music industry passing judgment here. Being a session musician is one thing, being cheated out of a promised songwriting credit is something else entirely.

If you have any principles or ethics at all (and we know enough now to surmise that Prince was happy to waive these when convenient to his own ends) then it is understandable why this monumental betrayal of trust - which had tangible, material consequences - might still rankle. Unless, of course, your critical thinking faculties are dulled by the gleam from your hero's halo.

Not sure if you´re addressing me or some other orgers but I´m fully aware of inacurrate songwriting credits in Prince´s career, and Brownmark is one of my favorite bass players ever. However, he quit long after Kiss was released and could´ve voiced his dissatisfaction with how things went down a bit earlier, don´t you think? By the way, Princevault mentions David Z. and the bandmembers of Mazarati as possible uncredited contributors but I see no mention of Brownmark. (Yes, I know that he was behind the Mazarati project, but still....).

It wasn´t my intention to diss Brownmark here, I´m all for having an open discussion. It´s just that in my opinion, it´s often the same people who always have to say something negative in interviews, whereas other former associates who also contributed to certain songs don´t feel the need to do so. But maybe his word were taken out of context, considering it is the New York Post.

David Z was credited for arrangement, and gives the account of Kiss here - https://www.soundonsound....rince-kiss

.

The melody, lyrics, song structure, minimalist arrangement, signature guitar and falsetto are Prince.

OperatingThetan said:

Brownmark also states in the interview that Prince didn't play bass, so that should give you an idea of its factual accuracy.

In this interview at 3:10, Mark says:

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDSoiAzh1Fs&t=183s

"Right before Prince passed, a year before he passed, he had flown me up to Minneapolis because he wanted me to look into a project with him where this new thing he was putting together... it ended up being 3rdEyeGirl which you know, I'm not a girl so I didn't fit the bill...but it was going to be something different before that"

.

So seems Mark doesn't have respect for Ida Nielsen either. She joined Prince's NPG in 2010, and was bassist for 3rdEyeGirl from 2012, and is on their 2014 album Plectrumelectrum.

EugeneKnight said:

KoolEaze said:

Another article on Brownmark, his biography and his contributions to the song Kiss.

As much as I like what Brownmark brought to Prince´s sound and understand his point regarding Kiss, I wish he had uttered his criticism when Prince was still alive.

https://nypost.com/2020/0...aLrFHJVc0o

.

.

"

The same can be said for Brown’s contribution to the 1986 hit “Kiss,” which Prince had presented to Brown in a skeletal, acoustic form. “I put some Brown style on it and created that song — minus the guitar parts and Prince’s falsetto,” said Brown, who writes that Prince promised him co-writing credit and royalties. Neither materialized.

“That was one of his biggest hits. As a one-third writing partner, I would have made millions. You can’t recover from that. My bank account did not reflect the 22 gold albums I played on.”

He did. He quit.

A lot of fan girls and fan boys who know precisely nothing about the music industry passing judgment here. Being a session musician is one thing, being cheated out of a promised songwriting credit is something else entirely.

If you have any principles or ethics at all (and we know enough now to surmise that Prince was happy to waive these when convenient to his own ends) then it is understandable why this monumental betrayal of trust - which had tangible, material consequences - might still rankle. Unless, of course, your critical thinking faculties are dulled by the gleam from your hero's halo.

Best not to reason with Prince stans

I agree with you, BTW

EugeneKnight said:

KoolEaze said:

Another article on Brownmark, his biography and his contributions to the song Kiss.

As much as I like what Brownmark brought to Prince´s sound and understand his point regarding Kiss, I wish he had uttered his criticism when Prince was still alive.

https://nypost.com/2020/0...aLrFHJVc0o

.

.

"

The same can be said for Brown’s contribution to the 1986 hit “Kiss,” which Prince had presented to Brown in a skeletal, acoustic form. “I put some Brown style on it and created that song — minus the guitar parts and Prince’s falsetto,” said Brown, who writes that Prince promised him co-writing credit and royalties. Neither materialized.

“That was one of his biggest hits. As a one-third writing partner, I would have made millions. You can’t recover from that. My bank account did not reflect the 22 gold albums I played on.”

He did. He quit.

A lot of fan girls and fan boys who know precisely nothing about the music industry passing judgment here. Being a session musician is one thing, being cheated out of a promised songwriting credit is something else entirely.

If you have any principles or ethics at all (and we know enough now to surmise that Prince was happy to waive these when convenient to his own ends) then it is understandable why this monumental betrayal of trust - which had tangible, material consequences - might still rankle. Unless, of course, your critical thinking faculties are dulled by the gleam from your hero's halo.

A songwriting credit for backing vocals? When Prince went through the final song, the only creatively significant contribution he kept was from David Z, which is why he received a credit. The record company didn't want to put out the song, they thought it was shit... Who paid for the studio time? In terms of the song, the melody, lyrics, song structure, minimalist arrangement (without bass), signature guitar and vocal elements are Prince. He did retain some of David's contributions.

.

Mark was able to quit because he had no contractual obligation to Warner Bros., unlike Prince. Mark is so principled and ethical that he lies about 3rdeyegirl.

.

Here at 3:10, Mark says:

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDSoiAzh1Fs&t=183s

"Right before Prince passed, a year before he passed (2015), he had flown me up to Minneapolis because he wanted me to look into a project with him where this new thing he was putting together... it ended up being 3rdEyeGirl which you know, I'm not a girl so I didn't fit the bill...but it was going to be something different before that"

.

Apparently bassist Ida Nielsen doesn't deserve credit for her years of work with Prince, joining his NPG in 2010, and then with 3rdEyeGirl from 2012 -- she is on their 2014 album Plectrumelectrum. I had the pleasure of seeing her in concert with 3rdeyegirl.

[Edited 10/11/20 18:42pm]

Margot said:

EugeneKnight said:

He did. He quit.

A lot of fan girls and fan boys who know precisely nothing about the music industry passing judgment here. Being a session musician is one thing, being cheated out of a promised songwriting credit is something else entirely.

If you have any principles or ethics at all (and we know enough now to surmise that Prince was happy to waive these when convenient to his own ends) then it is understandable why this monumental betrayal of trust - which had tangible, material consequences - might still rankle. Unless, of course, your critical thinking faculties are dulled by the gleam from your hero's halo.

Best not to reason with Prince stans

I agree with you, BTW

Duly noted, Margot. Salute!

EugeneKnight said:

Margot said:

Best not to reason with Prince stans

I agree with you, BTW

Duly noted, Margot. Salute!

Very black and white thinking. I actually feel for Mark.

Margot said:

EugeneKnight said:

Duly noted, Margot. Salute!

Very black and white thinking. I actually feel for Mark.

Me too. It takes a very particular mindset not to.

PennyPurple said:

Here we go again with him.

He is still getting paid by the Estate, the proof is in the court forms, that I linked to several months ago on the Estate thread.

They weren't his 22 gold albums they were Prince's.

He was hired by Prince to play in the band.

He is still making $$ by touring with the Rev.

Brownmark sounds like jealous little school boy. Last year he was complaining that Prince spent to much time with Vanity and would lavish her with presents, none of which BM got.

Ever notice how the ASSociates start acting up when there is a new release of the music.??

fuck the estate they are robbing his famliy of prince's royalties. don't pretend that his bandmates did not contribute to his music your comparing the royalties checks he should have gotten from kiss to touring checks.. foh

Genesia said:

Oh, honey. You were making $2,000/week in the early 80s. $104,000 a year, which is the equivalent of over $275,000/year today. You were in a band - an at-will employee working for someone else. In that kind of situation, you don't get a cut of the profits for everything you do. You agreed to work for a wage - and that's what you got. I'm guessing that $15,000 bonus for the tour was a percentage of your salary - probably 10%, which is pretty standard.

I worked for years as a copywriter for a large corporation. I wrote copy that sold - seriously - MILLIONS of dollars worth of products. Do you think I got a cut of that? No. Why? Because I was an at-will employee who got an annual salary - and a 10% bonus if the company met its goals for the year - for my work.

You had it great for awhile and then you didn't. If you were more talented and had worked to become flawless, rather than "rumbling" so no one could catch you in a mistake, you could have done more with your life. It's way too late to blame Prince for how it turned out.

you think 2,000 a week was good money at the time considering he had them playing all the time. these dudes never had a break with prince

jackson35 said:

PennyPurple said:

Here we go again with him.

He is still getting paid by the Estate, the proof is in the court forms, that I linked to several months ago on the Estate thread.

They weren't his 22 gold albums they were Prince's.

He was hired by Prince to play in the band.

He is still making $$ by touring with the Rev.

Brownmark sounds like jealous little school boy. Last year he was complaining that Prince spent to much time with Vanity and would lavish her with presents, none of which BM got.

Ever notice how the ASSociates start acting up when there is a new release of the music.??

fuck the estate they are robbing his famliy of prince's royalties. don't pretend that his bandmates did not contribute to his music your comparing the royalties checks he should have gotten from kiss to touring checks.. foh

Hell the Heirs of the Estate can't get any $$...at least the band members of the REV ARE getting checks from the Estate.

So now the Estate is robbing BM's family? Give me an f'n break. If it's THAT bad, why is BM touring with the REV paying tribute to PRINCE?

[Edited 10/15/20 4:46am]

Everyone forgets, that BM was just a hired employee. Hell I'd like to make millions from my employer too. I think I deserve it.

if W&L had said this, ALOT of you would swear it was The Gospel...but since BROWN Mark said it, it's lies & petty jealousy and such...

RJOrion said:

if W&L had said this, ALOT of you would swear it was The Gospel...but since BROWN Mark said it, it's lies & petty jealousy and such...

W&L suck and they are still getting paid by the Estate also.

PennyPurple said:

RJOrion said:

if W&L had said this, ALOT of you would swear it was The Gospel...but since BROWN Mark said it, it's lies & petty jealousy and such...

W&L suck and they are still getting paid by the Estate also.

thats irrelevant to brownmark...you can be getting paid, and still be getting robbed of millions at the same time...that exact scenario has happened to countlesss entertainers, black & white

RJOrion said:

PennyPurple said:

W&L suck and they are still getting paid by the Estate also.

thats irrelevant to brownmark...you can be getting paid, and still be getting robbed of millions at the same time...that exact scenario has happened to countlesss entertainers, black & white

David Z gives a different account.

Prince did give co-writing credits. There has been some debate as to whether all credited co-writing actually happened, at least with regard to some songs for which credit was given.

Aside from publishing after the time when Prince was here (which I understand that some think is suggestive of lying), what evidence is there that it's untrue that Prince promised Mark co-writing credit and royalties?

[Edited 10/18/20 16:59pm]

KoolEaze said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

jaawwnn said: I don't think that's on the NY post this time. Brownmark does nothing except trashing prince every chance he gets. EDIT: Also, he wants to sell his book to PRINCE FANS, i don't know about the rest on here, but his interviews are a turn off for me. [Edited 9/29/20 5:50am]

I think certain associates could make a lot more money if they were less selfish. I really used to like Brownmark, Sheila and some other associates a lot before Prince passed away but these days I´m no longer interested in their books, current tours or albums, mainly because of their actions after Prince´s death.

For some others , on the other hand, I have a newfound respect.

I'm happy for all things music-related to be discussed. Sometimes the discussion brings out people's reflections that an occasion may not have been Prince's, or an associate's, best moment.

Always extra happy to hear about the flip side , so thanks for that, too.

Would you be willing to share some thoughts connected to your last sentence about newfound respect?

Because Mark is not the first or that last to experience this issue, with the knowledge I have now,

I would trust Prince to always give 100% to his music.

I would not trust Prince interpersonally (unfortunately)

Margot said:

Because Mark is not the first or that last to experience this issue, with the knowledge I have now,

I would trust Prince to always give 100% to his music.

I would not trust Prince interpersonally (unfortunately)

In case your response was to me, I was wondering what evidence there was against Mark's claim that Prince promised him co-writing credits and royalties. My comment got confusing with the double negative.

Agree with your comment above.

IMO, there isn't a need to find perfect (or not) reason for Prince promising credit, etc. because Prince didn't always follow a straightforward path connected to what he granted to who.

Can understand that maybe some might react negatively to Mark's tone or personality. Also get that some view all claims made public after Prince's death with suspicion.

I was hearing the timing basis for people's suspicions, but not hearing any specific evidence.

It's another one of those things where almost all fans weren't there (for interaction of Prince and Mark). We can't know.

While there may be reasons for some to be strongly suspicious (e.g. timing of claims), there are also reasons (as you noted above) for strong tendency to believe.

[Edited 10/19/20 13:34pm]

rednblue said:

Margot said:

Because Mark is not the first or that last to experience this issue, with the knowledge I have now,

I would trust Prince to always give 100% to his music.

I would not trust Prince interpersonally (unfortunately)

In case your response was to me, I was wondering what evidence there was against Mark's claim that Prince promised him co-writing credits and royalties. My comment got confusing with the double negative.

Agree with your comment above.

IMO, there isn't a need to find perfect (or not) reason for Prince promising credit, etc. because Prince didn't always follow a straightforward path connected to what he granted to who.

Can understand that maybe some might negatively to Mark's tone or personality. Also get that some view all claims made public after Prince's death with suspicion.

I was hearing the timing basis for people's suspicions, but not hearing any specific evidence.

It's another one of those things where almost all fans weren't there (for interaction of Prince and Mark). We can't know.

While there may be reasons for some to be strongly suspicious (e.g. timing of claims), there are also reasons (as you noted above) for strong tendency to believe.

[Edited 10/19/20 13:17pm]

No, I was not responding to you. I was just making an independent statement that I have felt for some time.

PennyPurple said:

RJOrion said:

on your FIRST DAY of work [Edited 10/19/20 13:43pm]

OK, I admit that Mark has one HECK of a first day on the job story!

But when it comes to stories of tough days on the job, I'll bet Penny's got some doozies.

rednblue said:

KoolEaze said:

I think certain associates could make a lot more money if they were less selfish. I really used to like Brownmark, Sheila and some other associates a lot before Prince passed away but these days I´m no longer interested in their books, current tours or albums, mainly because of their actions after Prince´s death.

For some others , on the other hand, I have a newfound respect.

I'm happy for all things music-related to be discussed. Sometimes the discussion brings out people's reflections that an occasion may not have been Prince's, or an associate's, best moment.

Always extra happy to hear about the flip side , so thanks for that, too.

Would you be willing to share some thoughts connected to your last sentence about newfound respect?
dw.

-

l

[Edited 10/19/20 19:22pm]

[Edited 10/19/20 19:23pm]

rednblue said:

KoolEaze said:

I think certain associates could make a lot more money if they were less selfish. I really used to like Brownmark, Sheila and some other associates a lot before Prince passed away but these days I´m no longer interested in their books, current tours or albums, mainly because of their actions after Prince´s death.

For some others , on the other hand, I have a newfound respect.

I'm happy for all things music-related to be discussed. Sometimes the discussion brings out people's reflections that an occasion may not have been Prince's, or an associate's, best moment.

Always extra happy to hear about the flip side , so thanks for that, too.

Would you be willing to share some thoughts connected to your last sentence about newfound respect?

above th e

ee..I wanted to add something to my previous post but I think I deleted a long reply. it. I was thinking about friends and bandmembers such as André Cymone, Morris Hayes, Sonny, Jill Jones or even Apollonia , or certain celebrities or other musicians, for example Duff Mc Kagan. Always very respectful.

RJOrion said:

on your FIRST DAY of work

Unless he didn't rehearse, that wasn't his first day of work.

Genesia said:

RJOrion said:

on your FIRST DAY of work

Unless he didn't rehearse, that wasn't his first day of work.

"...WE TALKIN'BOUT PRACTICE?!..... PRACTICE???!....WE TALKIN'BOUT PRACTICE???!..."

~ Allen Iverson