Another article on Brownmark, his biography and his contributions to the song Kiss.

As much as I like what Brownmark brought to Prince´s sound and understand his point regarding Kiss, I wish he had uttered his criticism when Prince was still alive.

https://nypost.com/2020/0...aLrFHJVc0o

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"

The same can be said for Brown’s contribution to the 1986 hit “Kiss,” which Prince had presented to Brown in a skeletal, acoustic form. “I put some Brown style on it and created that song — minus the guitar parts and Prince’s falsetto,” said Brown, who writes that Prince promised him co-writing credit and royalties. Neither materialized.

“That was one of his biggest hits. As a one-third writing partner, I would have made millions. You can’t recover from that. My bank account did not reflect the 22 gold albums I played on.”

Here we go again with him.

He is still getting paid by the Estate, the proof is in the court forms, that I linked to several months ago on the Estate thread.

They weren't his 22 gold albums they were Prince's.

He was hired by Prince to play in the band.

He is still making $$ by touring with the Rev.

Brownmark sounds like jealous little school boy. Last year he was complaining that Prince spent to much time with Vanity and would lavish her with presents, none of which BM got.

Ever notice how the ASSociates start acting up when there is a new release of the music.??

PennyPurple said:

Here we go again with him.

He is still getting paid by the Estate, the proof is in the court forms, that I linked to several months ago on the Estate thread.

They weren't his 22 gold albums they were Prince's.

He was hired by Prince to play in the band.

He is still making $$ by touring with the Rev.

Brownmark sounds like jealous little school boy. Last year he was complaining that Prince spent to much time with Vanity and would lavish her with presents, none of which BM got.

Ever notice how the ASSociates start acting up when there is a new release of the music.??

Wow. Sounds petty and jealous to me.

Some former associates have really lost my respect even though I can´t deny that they contributed to Prince´s music but it´s getting tired. And I really like(d) Brownmark a lot.

The same goes for Sheila. They all want some of that purple gravy, and I understand that, but I think they´d make more money if they kept their mouths shut instead of doing what they´re doing these days.

He claims Prince kicked him from behind and cursed at him. If he did that to me I would have quit on the spot and beat the .. nevermind

Prince probably could have been more generous in that setting.

There were too many other folks with complaints about song credits.

If this was the only complaint, I would see it differently, but there was a pattern (IMO)

PennyPurple said:

I'd be wary of a story framed by the New York Post tbh. I'll have to get the book at some point.

jaawwnn said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

jaawwnn said:

I'd be wary of a story framed by the New York Post tbh. I'll have to get the book at some point.

I don't think that's on the NY post this time. Brownmark does nothing except trashing prince every chance he gets. EDIT: Also, he wants to sell his book to PRINCE FANS, i don't know about the rest on here, but his interviews are a turn off for me. [Edited 9/29/20 5:50am]

I think certain associates could make a lot more money if they were less selfish. I really used to like Brownmark, Sheila and some other associates a lot before Prince passed away but these days I´m no longer interested in their books, current tours or albums, mainly because of their actions after Prince´s death.

For some others , on the other hand, I have a newfound respect.

KoolEaze said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

jaawwnn said: I don't think that's on the NY post this time. Brownmark does nothing except trashing prince every chance he gets. EDIT: Also, he wants to sell his book to PRINCE FANS, i don't know about the rest on here, but his interviews are a turn off for me. [Edited 9/29/20 5:50am]

I think certain associates could make a lot more money if they were less selfish. I really used to like Brownmark, Sheila and some other associates a lot before Prince passed away but these days I´m no longer interested in their books, current tours or albums, mainly because of their actions after Prince´s death.

For some others , on the other hand, I have a newfound respect.

I suppose all i'm saying is see what the book says. Maybe the rest of these sentences begin with "but" or they're the only negative things in a book full of positive things.

Obviously if someone believes Prince must never be criticized and all he did was holy and from God and his perspectie on matters was the only one then ok, this book is heretical, but i'm saying wait and see at least. Since when did we start trusting the tabloids?

jaawwnn said:

KoolEaze said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

jaawwnn said:

I suppose all i'm saying is see what the book says. Maybe the rest of these sentences begin with "but" or they're the only negative things in a book full of positive things.

Obviously if someone believes Prince must never be criticized and all he did was holy and from God and his perspectie on matters was the only one then ok, this book is heretical, but i'm saying wait and see at least. Since when did we start trusting the tabloids?

I'm not saying that prince should never be critcised, but brownmark only does that. All he's doing is complaining I can't think of an interview where he doesn't complain. If prince was such a dickhead, then why is he trying to capitalize from his name? You think anybody would buy the book if he'd only wtite about himself? So prince was a dick, but he's writing a book and wants fans to buy it?

Well look, i've heard Brownmark say many good things about prince over the years, but sure, to be coming out with the above in 2020 seems pretty uncalled for, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the framing of this story is suspect. I may be wrong, maybe it's just a bitter rant of a book but we'll see.

[Edited 9/30/20 5:30am]

Oh, honey. You were making $2,000/week in the early 80s. $104,000 a year, which is the equivalent of over $275,000/year today. You were in a band - an at-will employee working for someone else. In that kind of situation, you don't get a cut of the profits for everything you do. You agreed to work for a wage - and that's what you got. I'm guessing that $15,000 bonus for the tour was a percentage of your salary - probably 10%, which is pretty standard.

I worked for years as a copywriter for a large corporation. I wrote copy that sold - seriously - MILLIONS of dollars worth of products. Do you think I got a cut of that? No. Why? Because I was an at-will employee who got an annual salary - and a 10% bonus if the company met its goals for the year - for my work.

You had it great for awhile and then you didn't. If you were more talented and had worked to become flawless, rather than "rumbling" so no one could catch you in a mistake, you could have done more with your life. It's way too late to blame Prince for how it turned out.

It beats working at 7-11!! In the words of Clay Davis (The Wire): "SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIT!!!"

KoolEaze said:

Another article on Brownmark, his biography and his contributions to the song Kiss.

As much as I like what Brownmark brought to Prince´s sound and understand his point regarding Kiss, I wish he had uttered his criticism when Prince was still alive.

https://nypost.com/2020/0...aLrFHJVc0o

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. “ I put some Brown style on it"

LOl.

KoolEaze said:

Another article on Brownmark, his biography and his contributions to the song Kiss.

As much as I like what Brownmark brought to Prince´s sound and understand his point regarding Kiss, I wish he had uttered his criticism when Prince was still alive.

https://nypost.com/2020/0...aLrFHJVc0o

.

.

"

The same can be said for Brown’s contribution to the 1986 hit “Kiss,” which Prince had presented to Brown in a skeletal, acoustic form. “I put some Brown style on it and created that song — minus the guitar parts and Prince’s falsetto,” said Brown, who writes that Prince promised him co-writing credit and royalties. Neither materialized.

“That was one of his biggest hits. As a one-third writing partner, I would have made millions. You can’t recover from that. My bank account did not reflect the 22 gold albums I played on.”

He did. He quit.

A lot of fan girls and fan boys who know precisely nothing about the music industry passing judgment here. Being a session musician is one thing, being cheated out of a promised songwriting credit is something else entirely.

If you have any principles or ethics at all (and we know enough now to surmise that Prince was happy to waive these when convenient to his own ends) then it is understandable why this monumental betrayal of trust - which had tangible, material consequences - might still rankle. Unless, of course, your critical thinking faculties are dulled by the gleam from your hero's halo.

KoolEaze said:

Another article on Brownmark, his biography and his contributions to the song Kiss.

As much as I like what Brownmark brought to Prince´s sound and understand his point regarding Kiss, I wish he had uttered his criticism when Prince was still alive.

https://nypost.com/2020/0...aLrFHJVc0o

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.

"

The same can be said for Brown’s contribution to the 1986 hit “Kiss,” which Prince had presented to Brown in a skeletal, acoustic form. “I put some Brown style on it and created that song — minus the guitar parts and Prince’s falsetto,” said Brown, who writes that Prince promised him co-writing credit and royalties. Neither materialized.

“That was one of his biggest hits. As a one-third writing partner, I would have made millions. You can’t recover from that. My bank account did not reflect the 22 gold albums I played on.”

In all fairness, BM might have uttered his criticisms to Prince when he was still alive and it fell on deaf ears, we don't know that. It is certainly true that BM largely turned that skeleton song Prince gave to Mazarati into what it eventually became: one of Prince's biggest hits. IMO he should have gotten some writer credits for that. I feel it is fair if BM feels somewhat frustrated about that. No need to slag him off for that like some of y'all do?

Seems a lot of people want credit for Kiss. David Z also claims that P gave him the skeleton version and he (David Z) made it a hit. But my favorite quote about Kiss comes for Eric Leeds who said, "Every member of the Revolution got a Grammy for Kiss, which is pretty amazing when you consider that none of us played a single note on it."

funkaholic1972 said:

KoolEaze said:

Another article on Brownmark, his biography and his contributions to the song Kiss.

As much as I like what Brownmark brought to Prince´s sound and understand his point regarding Kiss, I wish he had uttered his criticism when Prince was still alive.

https://nypost.com/2020/0...aLrFHJVc0o

.

.

"

The same can be said for Brown’s contribution to the 1986 hit “Kiss,” which Prince had presented to Brown in a skeletal, acoustic form. “I put some Brown style on it and created that song — minus the guitar parts and Prince’s falsetto,” said Brown, who writes that Prince promised him co-writing credit and royalties. Neither materialized.

“That was one of his biggest hits. As a one-third writing partner, I would have made millions. You can’t recover from that. My bank account did not reflect the 22 gold albums I played on.”

In all fairness, BM might have uttered his criticisms to Prince when he was still alive and it fell on deaf ears, we don't know that. It is certainly true that BM largely turned that skeleton song Prince gave to Mazarati into what it eventually became: one of Prince's biggest hits. IMO he should have gotten some writer credits for that. I feel it is fair if BM feels somewhat frustrated about that. No need to slag him off for that like some of y'all do?

Thanks, I agree.

EugeneKnight said:

KoolEaze said:

Another article on Brownmark, his biography and his contributions to the song Kiss.

As much as I like what Brownmark brought to Prince´s sound and understand his point regarding Kiss, I wish he had uttered his criticism when Prince was still alive.

https://nypost.com/2020/0...aLrFHJVc0o

.

.

"

The same can be said for Brown’s contribution to the 1986 hit “Kiss,” which Prince had presented to Brown in a skeletal, acoustic form. “I put some Brown style on it and created that song — minus the guitar parts and Prince’s falsetto,” said Brown, who writes that Prince promised him co-writing credit and royalties. Neither materialized.

“That was one of his biggest hits. As a one-third writing partner, I would have made millions. You can’t recover from that. My bank account did not reflect the 22 gold albums I played on.”

He did. He quit.

A lot of fan girls and fan boys who know precisely nothing about the music industry passing judgment here. Being a session musician is one thing, being cheated out of a promised songwriting credit is something else entirely.

If you have any principles or ethics at all (and we know enough now to surmise that Prince was happy to waive these when convenient to his own ends) then it is understandable why this monumental betrayal of trust - which had tangible, material consequences - might still rankle. Unless, of course, your critical thinking faculties are dulled by the gleam from your hero's halo.

Not sure if you´re addressing me or some other orgers but I´m fully aware of inacurrate songwriting credits in Prince´s career, and Brownmark is one of my favorite bass players ever. However, he quit long after Kiss was released and could´ve voiced his dissatisfaction with how things went down a bit earlier, don´t you think? By the way, Princevault mentions David Z. and the bandmembers of Mazarati as possible uncredited contributors but I see no mention of Brownmark. (Yes, I know that he was behind the Mazarati project, but still....).

It wasn´t my intention to diss Brownmark here, I´m all for having an open discussion. It´s just that in my opinion, it´s often the same people who always have to say something negative in interviews, whereas other former associates who also contributed to certain songs don´t feel the need to do so. But maybe his word were taken out of context, considering it is the New York Post.

KoolEaze said:

EugeneKnight said:

He did. He quit.

A lot of fan girls and fan boys who know precisely nothing about the music industry passing judgment here. Being a session musician is one thing, being cheated out of a promised songwriting credit is something else entirely.

If you have any principles or ethics at all (and we know enough now to surmise that Prince was happy to waive these when convenient to his own ends) then it is understandable why this monumental betrayal of trust - which had tangible, material consequences - might still rankle. Unless, of course, your critical thinking faculties are dulled by the gleam from your hero's halo.

Not sure if you´re addressing me or some other orgers but I´m fully aware of inacurrate songwriting credits in Prince´s career, and Brownmark is one of my favorite bass players ever. However, he quit long after Kiss was released and could´ve voiced his dissatisfaction with how things went down a bit earlier, don´t you think? By the way, Princevault mentions David Z. and the bandmembers of Mazarati as possible uncredited contributors but I see no mention of Brownmark. (Yes, I know that he was behind the Mazarati project, but still....).

It wasn´t my intention to diss Brownmark here, I´m all for having an open discussion. It´s just that in my opinion, it´s often the same people who always have to say something negative in interviews, whereas other former associates who also contributed to certain songs don´t feel the need to do so. But maybe his word were taken out of context, considering it is the New York Post.

This isn't an inaccurate songwriting credit. This is about Prince lying.

Unfortunately this is/was the nature of the music business. I've been in a similar situation where an acclaimed artist hired musicians to record an album with the promise that any songwriting contribution would be fully credited and appropriately compensated. Needless to say, the band got screwed over. The guitarist quit as soon as the album was released. I hung around for a couple more tours on the understanding that management were trying to "sort things out".

We've all gone on to much bigger and, frankly, much better things, but years later we still talk about what we were cheated out of, not because it was a vast sum, but because of the agreement and the trust that were broken. There are some for whom expedience is more important than either being principled or ethics. Prince is one of them. He was happy to kick up dust and write "Slave" on his face to get what he thought he was owed, and yet happily f@%ked over anyone he needed to without the briefest glance in the rearview mirror.

I don't expect this to cut through the wilful ignorance on this board, but if you're a musician - or indeed anyone who doesn't genuflect whenever P's name is mentioned - you're on BM's side.

KoolEaze said:

Another article on Brownmark, his biography and his contributions to the song Kiss.

As much as I like what Brownmark brought to Prince´s sound and understand his point regarding Kiss, I wish he had uttered his criticism when Prince was still alive.

https://nypost.com/2020/0...aLrFHJVc0o

.

.

"

The same can be said for Brown’s contribution to the 1986 hit “Kiss,” which Prince had presented to Brown in a skeletal, acoustic form. “I put some Brown style on it and created that song — minus the guitar parts and Prince’s falsetto,” said Brown, who writes that Prince promised him co-writing credit and royalties. Neither materialized.

“That was one of his biggest hits. As a one-third writing partner, I would have made millions. You can’t recover from that. My bank account did not reflect the 22 gold albums I played on.”

Not true -- Prince gave producer David Z the melody, lyrics and basic song structure, then took back the hum drum 'worked on' song, stripped off the fat, including bass, added signature guitar and falsetto elements - https://www.youtube.com/w...XMGp_7vl8w

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David Z gives the song's history in Sound on Sound -- the only contribution of Mark's that was kept on the final are his background vocals:

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/prince-kiss

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'You're going to produce this group called Mazarati.' That was the first time I'd been labelled a producer, which I'm very grateful for. It got me started.”

Formed by the Revolution's bassist Mark Brown (aka Brown Mark), Mazarati was a funk/R&B outfit whose only hit was the Z-produced/Prince-co-written '100 MPH'...

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"We did a bunch of songs for Mazarati's album,” Z recalls. "Then, when we needed a single, Prince gave me this demo of him just playing straight chords on an acoustic guitar — one verse and one chorus — while singing in a normal pitch; not the falsetto that's on the finished record. To us, it sounded like a folk song and we were wondering what we could do with it. No way was it funky. Anyway, starting with a LinnDrum, I programmed the beat and began experimenting. Taking a hi-hat from the drum machine, I ran it through a delay unit and switched between input and output and in the middle. That created a very funky rhythm. Then I took an acoustic guitar, played these open chords and gated that to the hi-hat trigger. The result was a really unique rhythm that was unbelievably funky but also impossible to actually play... I'm sure that sound influenced the fabulous new Daft Punk song 'Get Lucky', because it uses the same trick, with the guitar gated to some sort of rhythm and sequencer.

"Next, I remembered a little piano part from a Bo Diddley song called 'Say Man' and put it on there, and then Tony Christian sang the lead part, an octave lower than what Prince wound up doing. The background vocals I adapted from the Brenda Lee song 'Sweet Nothings' — good music is always taken from somewhere else — and that was that. The whole thing was done in a day.”

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...The fact is, in this form 'Kiss' sounded OK — a so-so dance number. However, Tony Christian's lead vocal was a little soulless and uninspiring, and when Prince heard the track he decided to head in a different direction... with himself at the helm.

"When I came back into the studio the next morning, Prince had already taken it off the machine, replaced the vocal with his own falsetto performance — which, I guess, he felt it needed — got rid of the bass part and added a James Brown 'Papa's Got A Brand New Bag' guitar lick,” Z recalls. "'What happened?' I asked, to which he replied, 'It's too good for you guys. I'm taking it back.'”

Boasting a four-octave range, Prince sang virtually the entire song in head voice, reverting to chest voice for the final line, as well as a single note before the last chorus. "At the time, I think he was into using a [Sennheiser MD] 441,” says Z.

"We only used nine tracks for that song, including a bass drum on one track, the rest of the drums on another and the hi-hat on a separate track. As for the lack of bass guitar, we always ran the kick drum through an [AMS] RMX16 and put it on the Reverse 2 setting to extend the tail of the reverb. That served as a kick drum and a bass, and it was a signature sound that we used all the time with Prince. We didn't need a real bass. And there was no reverb on anything else; just the kick. The guitar was dry and gated, and everything else sounded kind of different to the corporate rock that was on the radio at that time.”

Mazarati's backing vocals ended up on the finished record, yet this was scant compensation for what they had hoped would be their breakout hit.

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Accordingly, 'Kiss matched the mood of the moment, yet it initially didn't impress the record-company honchos.

"It was so different to everything else out there that the Warner Brothers executives freaked out when they first heard it,” David Z confirms. "I was going to get credit as the producer, arranger, everything, but when I talked to the Warners A&R guy he said, 'Oh man, Prince really screwed up. It sucks.' I thought, what? My heart just hit the floor. He said, 'It sounds like a demo. There's no reverb, there's no bass — it's terrible.'

"I was shaken and really disappointed. At that time, however, Prince had enough power to go, 'That's the single and you're not getting another one until you put it out.'

EugeneKnight said:

KoolEaze said:

Not sure if you´re addressing me or some other orgers but I´m fully aware of inacurrate songwriting credits in Prince´s career, and Brownmark is one of my favorite bass players ever. However, he quit long after Kiss was released and could´ve voiced his dissatisfaction with how things went down a bit earlier, don´t you think? By the way, Princevault mentions David Z. and the bandmembers of Mazarati as possible uncredited contributors but I see no mention of Brownmark. (Yes, I know that he was behind the Mazarati project, but still....).

It wasn´t my intention to diss Brownmark here, I´m all for having an open discussion. It´s just that in my opinion, it´s often the same people who always have to say something negative in interviews, whereas other former associates who also contributed to certain songs don´t feel the need to do so. But maybe his word were taken out of context, considering it is the New York Post.

This isn't an inaccurate songwriting credit. This is about Prince lying.

Unfortunately this is/was the nature of the music business. I've been in a similar situation where an acclaimed artist hired musicians to record an album with the promise that any songwriting contribution would be fully credited and appropriately compensated. Needless to say, the band got screwed over. The guitarist quit as soon as the album was released. I hung around for a couple more tours on the understanding that management were trying to "sort things out".

We've all gone on to much bigger and, frankly, much better things, but years later we still talk about what we were cheated out of, not because it was a vast sum, but because of the agreement and the trust that were broken. There are some for whom expedience is more important than either being principled or ethics. Prince is one of them. He was happy to kick up dust and write "Slave" on his face to get what he thought he was owed, and yet happily f@%ked over anyone he needed to without the briefest glance in the rearview mirror.

I don't expect this to cut through the wilful ignorance on this board, but if you're a musician - or indeed anyone who doesn't genuflect whenever P's name is mentioned - you're on BM's side.

Brownmark retired from music in 1992 -- most musicians I know need to work full time jobs, and do music after hours. Prince's father John Nelson was one of those. Don't cry too much over poor Brownmark... he's had 30 years to present his awesome songwriting. Brown was able to leave Warners -- Prince wasn't. My guess is that Brown wasn't paying for studio fees or for David Z who wrote the account of Kiss here -- https://www.soundonsound....rince-kiss

[Edited 10/11/20 16:55pm]