So after hearing Jungle Love sung by Prince, I can see why Jesse might have felt some kind of way. As the story goes, Jesse brought a rough instrumental of Jungle Love to Prince, in which Prince praised Jesse for finally bringing the FUNK.

I think the problem arose when Prince brought back a fully fleshed out song, produced with all instruments and lyrics, and it was fire. I'm sure Jesse was like "Damn, over night!" However, Prince gave Jesse under Tionne Music, which was generous on Prince's part seeing it's probably The Time's biggest hit. But I can definitey see how Jesse might have been salty when Prince took his idea and Prince-gasmed all over it and made it a hit.

Well, when you have more talen in your little finger................you know!!

Shouldn't this be in Associate Artist forum?

Um, Jesse's issues with Prince had nothing to do with Jungle Love. Jesse was happy that Jungle Love was used.

What he wasn't happy about.... well, first off, Jesse wrote the groove for "The Belle of St Mark". Prince took it and didn't credit him. Then, Prince turned around and credited Jesse for "Shortberry Strawcake", which is a song Jesse had nothing to do with.

Guess which one of those songs was a single? Yup.

Then there's the whole Shockadelica thing..... you know about that one right?

Finally, there were certain promoters, agents and managers that wanted to work with Jesse, and Prince allegedly pressured those people into not representing Jesse. Not sure how public that is, but people who know Jesse know that he's spoken on this before.

Yes, issues usually arose from the songs he didn't give credit for, not the ones he did give credit... like he never done before (ooohaawaaooouuu).

[Edited 8/15/19 16:18pm]

What's up with Shockadelica? I know there was something about Jesse tittling his LP Shockadelica, but not having a song with the same name on the track list, then Prince writing Shockadelica as a fuck you to Jesse, but there has to be something more than that, right? Something that has to do with finances?

Militant said:

Then there's the whole Shockadelica thing..... you know about that one right?

Jesse Johnson is still performing...if anyone cares to check him out...

Militant said:

Um, Jesse's issues with Prince had nothing to do with Jungle Love. Jesse was happy that Jungle Love was used.

What he wasn't happy about.... well, first off, Jesse wrote the groove for "The Belle of St Mark". Prince took it and didn't credit him. Then, Prince turned around and credited Jesse for "Shortberry Strawcake", which is a song Jesse had nothing to do with.

Guess which one of those songs was a single? Yup.

Then there's the whole Shockadelica thing..... you know about that one right?

Finally, there were certain promoters, agents and managers that wanted to work with Jesse, and Prince allegedly pressured those people into not representing Jesse. Not sure how public that is, but people who know Jesse know that he's spoken on this before.

I've heard the same thing. Why can't Prince fans get that he mis-treated Jesse?

PeggyO said:

Militant said:

Um, Jesse's issues with Prince had nothing to do with Jungle Love. Jesse was happy that Jungle Love was used.

What he wasn't happy about.... well, first off, Jesse wrote the groove for "The Belle of St Mark". Prince took it and didn't credit him. Then, Prince turned around and credited Jesse for "Shortberry Strawcake", which is a song Jesse had nothing to do with.

Guess which one of those songs was a single? Yup.

Then there's the whole Shockadelica thing..... you know about that one right?

Finally, there were certain promoters, agents and managers that wanted to work with Jesse, and Prince allegedly pressured those people into not representing Jesse. Not sure how public that is, but people who know Jesse know that he's spoken on this before.

I've heard the same thing. Why can't Prince fans get that he mis-treated Jesse?

Why can't Jesse Johnson be appreciated for his own music; food for thought...

Jesse is still blaming Prince for all of Jesse's failures.

PennyPurple said:

Jesse is still blaming Prince for all of Jesse's failures.

He really isn't, as anyone that was at Celebration 2019 can attest.

Militant said:

PennyPurple said:

Jesse is still blaming Prince for all of Jesse's failures.

He really isn't, as anyone that was at Celebration 2019 can attest.

You mean when he swore he wouldn't be in Prince's house paying tribute to him, .... until he found out he would be paid?

eugenius said:

What's up with Shockadelica? I know there was something about Jesse tittling his LP Shockadelica, but not having a song with the same name on the track list, then Prince writing Shockadelica as a fuck you to Jesse, but there has to be something more than that, right? Something that has to do with finances?

Prince got wind of Jesse's upcoming record being titled Shockadelica, and that there was no title song.

At that time (and for the majority of his career) Prince very much felt that albums should have a strong title song, like he had for most of his albums up to that point.

So Prince said, if you don't have one I'll write one for you and wrote the song and let Jesse know. There's some differences of opinion as to whether Prince actually intended to give Jesse the song in good faith, or whether he never actually intended to do so, and it being, as you said, basically a "fuck you then". What is clear is that he rushed the song out to radio ahead of Jesse's album release, and the common feeling is that he did so to make it seem like Jesse took the title from him and not the other way around.


But peep this. Here's something Jesse told me personally that I'm not sure is common knowledge.

So Jesse's "Shockadelica" record also has "Do Yourself A Favor" on it, right?


Which is based on Pepe Willie's 94 East track, "If You See Me", that Prince played guitar on all the way back in 1975 before he even had a record deal.

So Prince cut a new version of "Do Yourself A Favor" in 1982, right. And he pretty drastically changes the structure and arrangement of the song. It's the same progression, same lyrics, same vocal melody, but he changed the music quite a bit.

But if you listen to the Jesse version from 1986, it's much much closer to Prince's 82 version than it is to the 1975 version. But Prince isn't credited at all.

So, Jesse told me that he didn't know that Prince's 1982 version was so different to the 1975 original version. He'd never heard the original 94 East track, he'd only heard Prince's 1982 version from being in the camp at that time and so he based his version on that, and as far as he knew it was still the same as Pepe's original song, so he saw no reason to credit Prince for it. And crucially, Pepe never told him any different either.

So, if Prince heard about Jesse's record it's very possible he'd heard an advance copy of it (How else would he know the tracklist, and know there was no title track?) - heard Jesse's "Do Yourself A Favor" and obviously knew it was based on HIS version, and that he hadn't been credited for it, and got pissed off, and did the Shockadelica thing as retaliation.

PennyPurple said:

Militant said:

He really isn't, as anyone that was at Celebration 2019 can attest.

You mean when he swore he wouldn't be in Prince's house paying tribute to him, .... until he found out he would be paid?

Were you there? I was. Up in the VIP riser with Sharon and other siblings, actually.

If not, I'm not at all interested in your second hand versions of events.

Militant said:

PennyPurple said:

You mean when he swore he wouldn't be in Prince's house paying tribute to him, .... until he found out he would be paid?

Were you there? I was. Up in the VIP riser with Sharon and other siblings, actually.

If not, I'm not at all interested in your second hand versions of events.

So we have to be there to have an opinion on Jesse, since when?

Good I'm not interested in your opinion either. Just because you fell in love with Jesse doesn't mean we all have to.

Edited to add....Jesse's on tape dissing Prince and saying he would never go to the Celebration. Heard it and heard the vile in Jesse's voice when he was talking on that tape.

[Edited 8/15/19 18:48pm]

Susan Rogers had just moved to Minneapolis to work as Prince's engineer. Prince was away and she was installing equipment in Prince's home studio on Kiowa Trail. She felt that Prince would expect her to know how to do everything but she had questions. She said Jesse came over,was really sweet and helped her set it up according to what he knew Prince would want.

Militant said:

joyinrepetition said:

Militant said:

Um, Jesse's issues with Prince had nothing to do with Jungle Love. Jesse was happy that Jungle Love was used.

What he wasn't happy about.... well, first off, Jesse wrote the groove for "The Belle of St Mark". Prince took it and didn't credit him. Then, Prince turned around and credited Jesse for "Shortberry Strawcake", which is a song Jesse had nothing to do with.

Guess which one of those songs was a single? Yup.

Then there's the whole Shockadelica thing..... you know about that one right?

Finally, there were certain promoters, agents and managers that wanted to work with Jesse, and Prince allegedly pressured those people into not representing Jesse. Not sure how public that is, but people who know Jesse know that he's spoken on this before.

Militant Shortberry Strawcake was up for a Grammy for best instrumental. It lost to Herbie Hancock's Rocket, but had it won Jesse would have a Grammy sitting on his mantle.

That's not something you can foresee though, Prince obviously knew that he wanted "The Belle of St Mark" to be a single.

PennyPurple said:

So we have to be there to have an opinion on Jesse, since when?

Good I'm not interested in your opinion either. Just because you fell in love with Jesse doesn't mean we all have to.

Edited to add....Jesse's on tape dissing Prince and saying he would never go to the Celebration. Heard it and heard the vile in Jesse's voice when he was talking on that tape.

Yes, actually.

Because anyone who was there heard how conflicted Jesse was in his own words, saw his emotion and his inner turmoil, and understood how hard it was for him because he and Prince loved each other like brothers, and then had a very public falling out. Like MANY people did with Prince around that time, including Morris, Jam & Lewis, Andre, and many more.

Did you know that when The Time reformed for Graffiti Bridge, the first day of shooting when Jesse came to Paisley Park for the first time, Prince ran up to him, gave him a massive hug and whispered in his ear "It's about time someone else who knows how to dress showed up"

Again, if you weren't at Celebration, you wouldn't know any of this, which is why I asked.

You can stay having your opinion about two people that lived together and worked together and knew each other. I happen to think that those people probably know a little bit more about what their relationship was than you do.

No Militant we don't have to be there to have an opinion.....

Just like you weren't there when Jesse was being recorded and you still had an opinion on that...

And the story about Jesse going to PP and P giving him a hug and saying that to him, was out waayy long before this past Celebration. Nobody has to be at the Celebration to find things out.

And I'm sure they know more about their relationship, then you do too....that doesn't stop either one of us from having an opinion.

Militant said:

joyinrepetition said:

Militant said:

That's not something you can foresee though, Prince obviously knew that he wanted "The Belle of St Mark" to be a single.

PennyPurple said:

So we have to be there to have an opinion on Jesse, since when?

Good I'm not interested in your opinion either. Just because you fell in love with Jesse doesn't mean we all have to.

Edited to add....Jesse's on tape dissing Prince and saying he would never go to the Celebration. Heard it and heard the vile in Jesse's voice when he was talking on that tape.

Yes, actually.

Because anyone who was there heard how conflicted Jesse was in his own words, saw his emotion and his inner turmoil, and understood how hard it was for him because he and Prince loved each other like brothers, and then had a very public falling out. Like MANY people did with Prince around that time, including Morris, Jam & Lewis, Andre, and many more.

Did you know that when The Time reformed for Graffiti Bridge, the first day of shooting when Jesse came to Paisley Park for the first time, Prince ran up to him, gave him a massive hug and whispered in his ear "It's about time someone else who knows how to dress showed up"

Again, if you weren't at Celebration, you wouldn't know any of this, which is why I asked.

You can stay having your opinion about two people that lived together and worked together and knew each other. I happen to think that those people probably know a little bit more about what their relationship was than you do.

No Militant we don't have to be there to have an opinion.....

Just like you weren't there when Jesse was being recorded and you still had an opinion on that...

And the story about Jesse going to PP and P giving him a hug and saying that to him, was out waayy long before this past Celebration. Nobody has to be at the Celebration to find things out.

And I'm sure they know more about their relationship, then you do too....that doesn't stop either one of us from having an opinion.

Militant said:

joyinrepetition said:

Militant said:

That's not something you can foresee though, Prince obviously knew that he wanted "The Belle of St Mark" to be a single.

PennyPurple said:

So we have to be there to have an opinion on Jesse, since when?

Good I'm not interested in your opinion either. Just because you fell in love with Jesse doesn't mean we all have to.

Edited to add....Jesse's on tape dissing Prince and saying he would never go to the Celebration. Heard it and heard the vile in Jesse's voice when he was talking on that tape.

Yes, actually.

Because anyone who was there heard how conflicted Jesse was in his own words, saw his emotion and his inner turmoil, and understood how hard it was for him because he and Prince loved each other like brothers, and then had a very public falling out. Like MANY people did with Prince around that time, including Morris, Jam & Lewis, Andre, and many more.

Did you know that when The Time reformed for Graffiti Bridge, the first day of shooting when Jesse came to Paisley Park for the first time, Prince ran up to him, gave him a massive hug and whispered in his ear "It's about time someone else who knows how to dress showed up"

Again, if you weren't at Celebration, you wouldn't know any of this, which is why I asked.

You can stay having your opinion about two people that lived together and worked together and knew each other. I happen to think that those people probably know a little bit more about what their relationship was than you do.

Hilarious...Penny, unless you are as Connected as Casey, just chill out and accept some of this insider info. I just love all that we are getting these days.

PennyPurple said:

Hey Joey I don't care how much you or Casey think he has or hasn't connections. If Casey is so 'connected' to Prince as he claims to be, then maybe he should've thought twice before supporting Jesse and what he said on that recording......

I have my own opinion and I'm not shy about it, I don't have to be told what opinion to have in order to be 'connected'.

BTW, I enjoy your and Casey's Violet Reality. Keep up the good work....

JoeyCococo said:

JoeyCococo said: Also- I would pay anything to hear Prince and Jesse play together. If a recording existed off a soundboard...oh God!!

Uh, don't forget that time Jam & Lewis missed their gig and Prince played bass. Jesse was on guitar. So that's technically playing together. And no doubt that soundboard exists somewhere. Unlikely we'll ever hear it, but it is what it is.

PennyPurple said:

Facts by Jesse or facts by Prince? Because we haven't heard the facts from Prince.

I actually feel sorry for some people who think that the are getting 'THE' facts only from 1 person in the situation and not from the other.

Their truth doesn't = 'THE' truth.

Militant said:

eugenius said:

What's up with Shockadelica? I know there was something about Jesse tittling his LP Shockadelica, but not having a song with the same name on the track list, then Prince writing Shockadelica as a fuck you to Jesse, but there has to be something more than that, right? Something that has to do with finances?

What is clear is that he rushed the song out to radio ahead of Jesse's album release, and the common feeling is that he did so to make it seem like Jesse took the title from him and not the other way around.

But peep this. Here's something Jesse told me personally that I'm not sure is common knowledge.

So Jesse's "Shockadelica" record also has "Do Yourself A Favor" on it, right?


Which is based on Pepe Willie's 94 East track, "If You See Me", that Prince played guitar on all the way back in 1975 before he even had a record deal.

So Prince cut a new version of "Do Yourself A Favor" in 1982, right. And he pretty drastically changes the structure and arrangement of the song. It's the same progression, same lyrics, same vocal melody, but he changed the music quite a bit.

But if you listen to the Jesse version from 1986, it's much much closer to Prince's 82 version than it is to the 1975 version. But Prince isn't credited at all.

So, Jesse told me that he didn't know that Prince's 1982 version was so different to the 1975 original version. He'd never heard the original 94 East track, he'd only heard Prince's 1982 version from being in the camp at that time and so he based his version on that, and as far as he knew it was still the same as Pepe's original song, so he saw no reason to credit Prince for it. And crucially, Pepe never told him any different either.

So, if Prince heard about Jesse's record it's very possible he'd heard an advance copy of it (How else would he know the tracklist, and know there was no title track?) - heard Jesse's "Do Yourself A Favor" and obviously knew it was based on HIS version, and that he hadn't been credited for it, and got pissed off, and did the Shockadelica thing as retaliation.

Ah ha, thanks for this information. I never knew the timeline of these events, and I always wondered how JJ's cover of "Do Yourself a Favor" made it onto his LP if he was butting heads with P at the time -- as far as he was concerned, it was Pepe's track. As friendly as P and JJ were at a certain point, it seems like competition got the better of the friendship and Prince saw no wiggle room in sharing the spotlight amongst Minneapolis musicians.

Jesse has been slaying recently in Tokyo, Japan with ALL new arrangements of his catalog.

He is on FIRE!

dupe

[Edited 8/20/19 10:53am]

PeggyO said:

I REALLY wish we could stop demonizing certain of Prince's friends/collaborators. This includes Jesse, Andre, Morris, Kirk et al. Life/relationships are just not black and white, they are nuanced.

There wasn't just one good guy (Prince) with the rest being bad guys.

I also don't want the Org to turn into something like Beyonce's beehive where they attack

mercilessly and often in an uninformed/out-of-context manner.

Yes, Jesse was caught on tape. Have none of us had moments when we say things about our husbands, wives, friends that may be considered unflattering. Does that mean we have to move out of the house or divorce? I am certain that Jesse had some difficult times with Prince.

[Edited 8/20/19 9:13am]