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Printablevioletcrush said:
The Purple Rain film was Prince's idea and creation. Vanity stated she helped with some of the dialogue in the early stages, however, the script was completely re-written with only a portion of any original dialogue. The film was much more than just Prince and Vanity's relationship. It was his family dynamic, his competition with his friends' bands, and also a troubled relationship. It was Prince and his music more than anything else.
Prince putting Vanity on the cover of that Rolling Stone magazine was an absolute marketing strategy. There were many in the media questioning is sexuality at that time, and he was trying to cross over to the Top 40 Rock/Pop audience. He was also promoting Vanity 6 at that time. Completely understandable that he would have her on the cover with him, as she was tied to the music and the 1999 tour at that time. Prince also posed with Wendy and Lisa on the cover of RS in 1986 - again, promoting his music and the Parade tour. Don't kid yourself - Prince always had a business agenda when marketing himself to the media - in terms of what would get him the most attention. * Yes, Vanity very much loved Prince and she was beautiful. Prince loved her, but I do not think she was the "love of his life". They had a very tumultuous relationship, and much of it was physical attraction (listen to Wonderful Ass). Yes, he was not monogamous with any of his serious relationships, including his marriages, alledgedly. However, if you look at the songs for Susannah you can see they were on a deeper emotional level. Susannah was also in Prince's life until the end. She has discussed continuing to see him intimately for years after she left MN, and has discussed him reaching out to her in the 90's, as well as, just a couple of weeks before he passed. He wanted to record with her again. In an interview Vanity did in 2012 to promote the re-issue of her book she stated the last time she spoke with Prince )over the phone) was in 2009. [Edited 9/8/19 10:44am] I do not kid myself at all, and you really have no right to say what kind of relationship Prince had with Vanity. Are you Prince's mother? So if Prince and Vanity had a tumultuous relationship, it is quite possible that WDC was written about her. Who was the love of Prince's life? Music and God, imho. | |
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And VANITY was in a harem with Prince as well (insert Jill Jones and Susan Moonsie here). We also now know - based on Jill Jones's interview with Prince Podcast, that Prince was pursuing HER all through 1982 in LA when he had Vanity in MN. She was in the recording studio with him in LA when he was doing songs for 1999. Here's a big difference though: Prince proposed to Susannah in 1985, and she planned the Galpin home with him, and LIVED with him there as well. Cannot say the same for Vanity. * The P&M show that I'm talking about is the first show at PP - almost a month before Vanity passed. His words were connecting the rest of the song lyrics when he said, "we all write songs to "cop" girls..." you know, aka to "get" the girl?? This was always the story - that he was trying to woo Susannah away from her boyfriend at the time. * Susannah's statement was a general thought about how Prince was reflecting on many aspects of his past and his life. She also talked about this during her interview with Toure. He also changed the lyrics to Forever In My Life at the Auckland, NZ show to say, "I love you for the rest of my life.." , so yes, he was opening up about many relationships, and not just his with Vanity. He also combined IIWYG and Waiting In Vain on most of the tour. He was speaking both through his words and his musical choices.
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icecreamcastle777 said:
Everyone knows that Susannah was in the harem with everybody else. But again, the man had a wide-ranging life apart from Susannah... He wasn't singing about her during this time. He was singing about HIS life with Vanity, not her. He wasn't talking about anybody else when he was still trying to make people understand the song was about Vanity at the P&M show, was he? That was long after that 2015 Ebony interview. From the looks of what your girl said in The Making Of Purple Rain and this latest Rolling Stone interview, doesn't seem like she believes The Beautiful One has anything to do with her either. Y'all need to back off of this. Damn, how many times Prince is gonna tell ya'll in different ways the song is about Vanity? . Rolling Stone Magazine 2019 https://www.rollingstone....ew-842940/ . "In the year or so leading up to his passing, Prince seemed nostalgic. When Vanity died in February 2016, he eulogized her at one of his Piano & a Microphone concerts, explaining that she had inspired Purple Rain’s “The Beautiful Ones.” It was unusual, but it showed how he was starting to come full circle with some of the recordings he’d made nearly 40 years ago." . “I remember him saying, ‘I’m not a reminiscent kind of guy. I don’t talk of the past, and I don’t reflect,'” Melvoin says. “But I knew him well and I felt he was incredibly self-reflective. Towards the end, he was communicating with the audience more, telling stories about his past and connecting the dots. He was letting people know why he wrote certain song and who they were about. He was becoming more and more self-reflective, and that could’ve been based on the physical pain he was in. It’s when you’re in so much fucking pain that you’re like, ‘I don’t know how much more of this I can take,’ and you start thinking about mortality and life. He probably had a lot of that going on.”
[Edited 9/8/19 10:56am] Thank you, a beautiful note from Susannah respecting Prince's voice. Frankly Prince had many beautiful ones in his life and he needed them. Susan Moonsie of course being one of them. | |
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Yes, she was respecting Prince's voice. And his voice was very clear at his first P&M show when, before playing TBO, he made the statement, "Some singers have the courage to tell you....if they're male don't let them lie to you. They ALL write songs to "cop" girls..." | |
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Lord, I thought Susan finally spoke out about Prince with all the activity here. Come to find out this Susan Moonsie thread has turned into a Susannah Melvoin thread.😞 | |
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violetcrush said:
Yes, she was respecting Prince's voice. And his voice was very clear at his first P&M show when, before playing TBO, he made the statement, "Some singers have the courage to tell you....if they're male don't let them lie to you. They ALL write songs to "cop" girls..." Yes, Prince definitely knew a thing or two about copping girls. And Prince discussed TBO... his voice heard (by some). [Edited 9/8/19 11:37am] | |
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There was nothing much to discuss related to Susan M, other than she has a new Instagram account. Someone brought up WDC being written about her. Then someone challenged that opinion. Then someone brought up Prince's Ebony article and TBO....then it became Vanity vs. Susannah...and on and on and on... | |
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Are you really reading his statement above?? Those ARE Prince's words, and they were said clearly during his most open and honest performance. Without directly stating he lied about part of the song, he's coming clean about the long-held story. * If you haven't listened to that show I highly recommend it. | |
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violetcrush said:
Are you really reading his statement above?? Those ARE Prince's words, and they were said clearly during his most open and honest performance. Without directly stating he lied about part of the song, he's coming clean about the long-held story. * If you haven't listened to that show I highly recommend it. I have listened to all of Prince's words, went to 4 P&M shows. At this point, you are not even listening to Susannah herself. You seem very personally invested in Prince's relationship with Susannah... hmmm. | |
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And you seem very invested in his relationship with Vanity. I have agreed that part of the song was connected to Vanity. It's you that refuses to believe that the other lyrics could be connected with Susannah and what was happening with her at that time - even though it's been written in every Biography and stated by all of his Engineers who were there at the time he recorded the song, and we also have Prince's own words at his first P&M show at PP. * Can you point me to where Susannah specifically referenced TBO in her statement about Prince reflecting about his life at the P&M shows? I must have missed that part. [Edited 9/8/19 11:55am] | |
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I am not invested in any of Prince's relationships. If Susannah said he didn't usually share what his songs were about, how would the engineers and biographers know who Prince wrote TBO about? I have never listened to TBO and thought it was about copping girls, but whatever floats your boat.
"In the year or so leading up to his passing, Prince seemed nostalgic. When Vanity died in February 2016, he eulogized her at one of his Piano & a Microphone concerts, explaining that she had inspired Purple Rain’s “The Beautiful Ones.” It was unusual, but it showed how he was starting to come full circle with some of the recordings he’d made nearly 40 years ago." - Susannah M.
Vanity's death in 2016 brought her role in this song's creation back into sharp focus for Prince. Only hours before an Australian performance, Prince learned that she had died at age 57, due to renal failure. He reluctantly took the stage, dedicating many songs to her. A saddened Prince told the audience: "I thank you all for being patient. I'm trying to stay focused, it's a little heavy for me tonight... she knows about this one." He then played "The Beautiful Ones", replacing the lyric "I'm begging down on my knees" to "Denise, Denise".
I was talking to somebody about “The Beautiful Ones.” They were speculating as to who I was singing about. But they were completely wrong.
If they look at it, it’s very obvious. “Do you want him or do you want me,” that was written for that scene in Purple Rain specifically. Where Morris [Day] would be sitting with [Apollonia], and there’d be this back and forth. And also, “The beautiful ones you always seem to lose,” Vanity had just quit the movie. To then speculate, “Well, he wrote that song about me”? Afterwards you go, “Who are you? Why do you think that you’re part of the script that way? And why would you go around saying stuff like that?”
So we just let people talk and say whatever they want to say. Nine times out of 10, trust me, what’s out there now, I wouldn’t give nary one of these folks the time of day. That’s why I don’t say anything back, because there’s so much that’s wrong.
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Prior to Vanity's passing - Prince at the first P&M show January 2016: "Some singers have the courage to tell you....if they're male don't let them lie to you. They ALL write songs to "cop" girls..." then he plays TBO. * ^^^ I'll bite. So what do you think Prince meant by that statement above?? Because he didn't need to "get" Vanity during the time he wrote that song. He already had her, and she had left the camp due to wanting more money and all of his cheating. * Ebony Interview 2015: * MML: "I’ve read “The Beautiful Ones” was based on Susannah Melvoin." * Prince: "Any ballad like that, you know it’s not going to be about anything, uh, what’s the word? Carnal. It’s not gonna even be based in flesh. Regardless of what I’m singing about, it’s all spiritual. This is a channel. I’m trying to do “Somewhere over the Rainbow.” It’s not about somebody human that I’m looking at right now. It wouldn’t have worked if it was." * Prince could have easily said no, it's not about Susannah Melvoin. He did NOT say that. He skirted around the question and came up with two different answers. * And, for the record - Susannah did not ever specifically state the song was about her. Everyone else in the camp did though. | |
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From DMSR 2001: * Page 131 - "Also recorded at Sunset Sound was a new song, "The Beautiful Ones", which replaced Electric Intercourse in the film and on the album. "It was kind of written about Wendy's twin sister Susannah", according to McCreary. "It was a scary song, the way he screams. It has a lot of passion and emotion. I think he was very much in love with Susannah." He fell deeply for her, although she was involved with another man at the time. Susannah would occupy a central place in Prince's work and emotions for three years, inspiring some of his most beautiful songwriting. "Prince really admired Wendy, but when he met Susannah he was absolutely smitten", says Rogers....Prince started sending her flowers every single day. He did it for almost a year."" * Page 135 - "Prince had a lot of respect for Susannah, says Roy Bennett. He really loved her. She understood him. He told me one time that he was afraid of Susannah because she could actually make him quit music." Karen Krattinger, who was recruited in 1984 as an assistant to Purple Rain tour producer/manager Tommy Marzallo, before becoming General Manager of Prince's PRN Produciton Comany after the Purple Rain tour, says of Susannah, "She was good for him. He was more humane when she was around. I to this day believe that Susannah was the best thing that could ever have happened to him."
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I think Prince meant exactly what he said. And here is what he said about The Beautiful Ones,
"If they look at it, it’s very obvious. “Do you want him or do you want me,” that was written for that scene in Purple Rain specifically. Where Morris [Day] would be sitting with [Apollonia], and there’d be this back and forth. And also, “The beautiful ones you always seem to lose,” Vanity had just quit the movie. To then speculate, “Well, he wrote that song about me”? Afterwards you go, “Who are you? Why do you think that you’re part of the script that way? And why would you go around saying stuff like that?” https://www.facebook.com/...788385046/
Being a bit of a writer myself, I can assure you that artistry is not a linear process. In other words, emotions, feeling, can be conjured at any time and related to current or historical events. I would be hard pressed to find an average Prince fan who thinks Purple Rain is about Susannah Melvoin. His relationship with The Time, and his family being other important pieces in addition to his relationship with Vanity (who was meant to co-star in the film).
He had already spoken about The Beautiful Ones earlier in the Ebony article, so when the journalist inconsiderately pressed about Susannah (after Prince had already provided clarity), Prince offered a gentlemanly response.
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MoodyBlumes said:
I think Prince meant exactly what he said. And here is what he said about The Beautiful Ones,
"If they look at it, it’s very obvious. “Do you want him or do you want me,” that was written for that scene in Purple Rain specifically. Where Morris [Day] would be sitting with [Apollonia], and there’d be this back and forth. And also, “The beautiful ones you always seem to lose,” Vanity had just quit the movie. To then speculate, “Well, he wrote that song about me”? Afterwards you go, “Who are you? Why do you think that you’re part of the script that way? And why would you go around saying stuff like that?” https://www.facebook.com/...788385046/
Being a bit of a writer myself, I can assure you that artistry is not a linear process. In other words, emotions, feeling, can be conjured at any time and related to current or historical events. I would be hard pressed to find an average Prince fan who thinks Purple Rain is about Susannah Melvoin. His relationship with The Time, and his family being other important pieces in addition to his relationship with Vanity (who was meant to co-star in the film).
He had already spoken about The Beautiful Ones earlier in the Ebony article, so when the journalist inconsiderately pressed about Susannah (after Prince had already provided clarity), Prince offered a gentlemanly response.
I disagree. Prince came up two completely different responses when asked about Susannah directly. He first stated he was not writing about anything “carnal” - that it was coming from a spiritual place. Then he went on to state that the rest of the song was written for the characters in the film. He was caught off guard by the direct question. * The Beautiful Ones was recorded after Prince had been heavily pursuing Susannah for nine months. As per Susannah, both in her interview with Toure and also her statements in Duane Tudahl’s recent book, she stated he was sending flowers to her door everyday through that year and that he was falling in love with her. He was staying at her tiny little house, and he was kissing her and telling her he could not stop thinking about her. I would venture to guess that, especially with someone like Prince who was accustomed to getting what he wanted - especially with women - he would have been frustrated enough to write those lyrics about her. | |
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ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:
If by “she” you mean MoodyBlumes, then yes I agree. I did not start the discussion about TBO | |
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I'm going with Prince's words on that song and choose not to invade his psyche regarding his other tunes. But if you really need to believe the song is about Susannah, that is your choice of course. Prince was direct as he could possibly be when he stated what/who the song was about. Couldn't have been easy for him either given all the mythology and others speaking over him. Vanity was the absent star of Purple Rain.
Purple Rain
I never meant to cause you any sorrow
I never meant to cause you any pain I only wanted to one time to see you laughing I only wanted to see you Laughing in the purple rain Purple rain, purple rain
Purple rain, purple rain Purple rain, purple rain I only wanted to see you Bathing in the purple rain I never wanted to be your weekend lover
I only wanted to be some kind of friend Baby, I could never steal you from another It's such a shame our friendship had to end Purple rain, purple rain
Purple rain, purple rain Purple rain, purple rain I only wanted to see you Underneath the purple rain Honey, I know, I know
I know times are changing It's time we all reach out For something new, that means you too You say you want a leader
But you can't seem to make up your mind I think you better close it And let me guide you to the purple rain Purple rain, purple rain
Purple rain, purple rain If you know what I'm singing about up here C'mon, raise your hand Purple rain, purple rain
I only want to see you Only want to see you In the purple rain | |
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MoodyBlumes said:
I'm going with Prince's words on that song and choose not to invade his psyche regarding his other tunes. But if you really need to believe the song is about Susannah, that is your choice of course. Prince was direct as he could possibly be when he stated what/who the song was about. Couldn't have been easy for him either given all the mythology and others speaking over him. Vanity was the absent star of Purple Rain.
Purple Rain I never meant to cause you any sorrow I never meant to cause you any pain I only wanted to one time to see you laughing I only wanted to see you Laughing in the purple rain Purple rain, purple rain Purple rain, purple rain Purple rain, purple rain I only wanted to see you Bathing in the purple rain I never wanted to be your weekend lover I only wanted to be some kind of friend Baby, I could never steal you from another It's such a shame our friendship had to end Purple rain, purple rain Purple rain, purple rain Purple rain, purple rain I only wanted to see you Underneath the purple rain Honey, I know, I know I know times are changing It's time we all reach out For something new, that means you too You say you want a leader But you can't seem to make up your mind I think you better close it And let me guide you to the purple rain Purple rain, purple rain Purple rain, purple rain If you know what I'm singing about up here C'mon, raise your hand Purple rain, purple rain I only want to see you Only want to see you In the purple rain Seriously?? Talk about not being able to see the bigger picture within his songs. This was the “anthemic” song for the ending of the film. It was Prince telling his fans to follow him and his music “You say you want a leader but you cannot seem to make up your mind. I think you better close it and let me guide you to the Purple Rain”. This song was about what Prince was trying to do with his music. Same with his unreleased song “Purple Music”, which was Prince saying he doesn’t need a high from drugs, because his music gets him the same high. | |
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Purple Rain, the film... was about Prince, his relationships with Vanity (who abandoned the project and left Prince), the Time, his parents, also his rising star. She obviously meant something to him, or he wouldn't have made a film about her. | |
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MoodyBlumes said: I'm going with Prince's words on that song and choose not to invade his psyche regarding his other tunes. But if you really need to believe the song is about Susannah, that is your choice of course. Prince was direct as he could possibly be when he stated what/who the song was about. Couldn't have been easy for him either given all the mythology and others speaking over him. Vanity was the absent star of Purple Rain * No, Apollonia was the co-star of Purple Rain and the script was altered to fit her personality which was lighter and more innocent than Vanity’s. It was stated the film would have been much darker with Vanity. * Just baffled as to why you can’t believe that Prince was inspired by both Vanity and Susannah when he wrote TBO. It was not The Beautiful ONE - singular. It was plural. Vanity “smashed his picture” because she left the film and the camp. Susannah was frustrating him because he wanted to be with her but she was with someone else and also spending time with him. The “you make me so confused” and “don’t my kisses please you right” would apply to their situation. * You still have not given your explanation for his statements at the first P&M before playing TBO that I posted. | |
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What explanation are you looking for? Prince has never said The Beautiful Ones was about Susannah Melvoin. | |
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Apollonia was hired because Vanity quit the film. That is the only reason she received the part. | |
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MoodyBlumes said:
Purple Rain, the film... was about Prince, his relationships with Vanity (who abandoned the project and left Prince), the Time, his parents, also his rising star. She obviously meant something to him, or he wouldn't have made a film about her. But you are saying that Purple Rain was just about Vanity. It was not. Part of it was their tumultuous relationship. It was much more about his family drama, the competition with the Time, and his desire to become a huge star - a la Baby I’m A Star as the final song. * Again, it makes sense that he connected Vanity to the verses “the beautiful ones always smash the picture” and “ the beautiful ones you always seem to lose”. However, the rest of the lyrics are NOT about his relationship with Vanity. | |
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Here is what I said, once again: "Purple Rain, the film... was about Prince, his relationships with Vanity (who abandoned the project and left Prince), the Time, his parents, also his rising star." They did have a tumultuous relationship, and she finally left him. WDC also speaks of a tumultuous relationship, Purple Rain speaks of the sorrow about a relationship ending, The Beautiful Ones, they hurt you every time; the beautiful ones you always seem to lose. Seems reasonable to assume Prince was hurt when Vanity left him. [Edited 9/8/19 13:55pm] | |
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MoodyBlumes said:
Here is what I said, once again: "Purple Rain, the film... was about Prince, his relationships with Vanity (who abandoned the project and left Prince), the Time, his parents, also his rising star." They did have a tumultuous relationship, and she finally left him. WDC also speaks of a tumultuous relationship, Purple Rain speaks of the sorrow about a relationship ending, The Beautiful Ones, they hurt you every time; the beautiful ones you always seem to lose. Seems reasonable to assume Prince was hurt when Vanity left him. [Edited 9/8/19 13:55pm] Of course he was hurt, and probably more pissed off than anything. Her exit completely de-railed the film and if they hadn’t found Apollonia at the 11th hour the film would have been put on hold. She messed with his career plans. I don’t blame her, but Prince rarely admitted to his flaws in a relationship. It was always the woman’s fault and he was the victim. | |
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How do you know what Prince was always like in his relationships, were you there? | |
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MoodyBlumes said:
How do you know what Prince was always like in his relationships, were you there? I could ask you the same question. This is why we refer to the Biographies, because those who were in his inner circle know much more about him than we do. His feelings are in his songs as well. | |
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What question would you like to ask me? I didn't claim Prince rarely admitted fault or was always playing a victim role in relationships. Did the folks in these bios share about their own faults, and how they contributed to relational issues? [Edited 9/8/19 14:21pm] | |
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