Mumio said:

Shockadelica9 said:

Mumio said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't see any reason.

.

But it is connected to people who covered the songs or protege's they were meant for.

I wish Morris Day, Kenny Rogers Tony Christian(Mazarati) Brenda & Susan Moonsie were on this too

Instead setting it up to seem to be a 'romantic' thing. Prince wasn't that way with Apollonia, nor Taj Sevellle.

.

I mean if they interviewed Morris Day/the Time, I doubt they would call themselves 'the originals'

I don't know why Jill is the only person that continues to bring in the sexual nature of things into this. She did it on the Piano & Microphone 1983 release too.

Yeah, it's the usual turning it into being about the women themselves that annoys me. Lately it seems like we can't just look at Prince and his work without the older women trying to make it about themselves, although I'll admit that the fans keep on with it too for some unknown reason. There's not gonna be a career resurgence for any of them off his music at this point. It's really not a good look for them to keep interjecting themselves, it's starting to reek too much of desperation to be noticed.

[Edited 7/1/19 10:42am]

yeah I don't like the nastiness among the fan base. And I wish Jill would stop with the personal rehashing of things about other women. Because no one has said anything about her.

But the women (platonic and romantic) as well as the men, were directly a part of why and how these songs came about. It was a part of Prince's vision and I don't think enough people understand the solidifying effect of his foundational years, that the 'protege' music had. Whereas it had almost a opposite effect in the 1990s

Even Peggy McLeary got a song lol unreleased but documented.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Mumio said:

Yeah, it's the usual turning it into being about the women themselves that annoys me. Lately it seems like we can't just look at Prince and his work without the older women trying to make it about themselves, although I'll admit that the fans keep on with it too for some unknown reason. There's not gonna be a career resurgence for any of them off his music at this point. It's really not a good look for them to keep interjecting themselves, it's starting to reek too much of desperation to be noticed.

[Edited 7/1/19 10:42am]

yeah I don't like the nastiness among the fan base. And I wish Jill would stop with the personal rehashing of things about other women. Because no one has said anything about her.

But the women (platonic and romantic) as well as the men, were directly a part of why and how these songs came about. It was a part of Prince's vision and I don't think enough people understand the solidifying effect of his foundational years, that the 'protege' music had. Whereas it had almost a opposite effect in the 1990s

Even Peggy McLeary got a song lol unreleased but documented.

And I actually think that is fine to be a part of the discussion, because they were involved with it. But I think you are clear on what I meant. We all know he was involved with the women in both ways, but it's tiring that the focus becomes about them, especially in this particular reference (The Originals). Too many trying to twist the focus.

Shockadelica9 said:

violetcrush said:

That is an interesting idea, but I think Prince had “crushes” on many of the old Hollywood actresses and pinup girls. He regularly watched the 40’s and 50’s films, which most likely inspired the look of The Family and UTCM. Susannah looked like a young Lauren Bacall or Katharine Hepburn. She colored her hair red during that time. * Prince had Jill imitating the Marilyn Monroe look by bleaching and cutting her hair short - sane style as MM. She had that look for both the 1999 tour and Purple Rain film. I do think the “Marilyn” in Samuelle was referring to Jill and the “love triangle” that happened while Vanity was there. A few songs on that album were about Prince and that situation.

Jill insinuated that they had many in this interview so i think Vanity wasn't that mad or upset with jill lol

Huh? Where did you get that from? I read it and she didn’t say that. She was talking about the same stuff she talked about in Duane’s book. She was saying that she heard Prince and Vanity using a Vibrator when they were recording the song Vibrator in the studio coz they were all staying in the same house/studio at the time. That’s why she was saying she didn’t want to get into it in that interview. Girl didn’t say a damn thing about no threesome. I thought everybody knew that Vanity wasn’t having that shit from Prince. You think she liked that Prince was messing around with Jill Jones? That’s one of the reason why the woman left. Where have you been? Some of y’all on here are conspiracy theorist and love insuinuating your own shit.

Krystalkisses said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes, and in keeping with the spirit of lifting up women, what does 'the originals' even mean?

It is sorta sad that Jill defined herself based on being a woman who slept with Prince(in his camp) if that is what 'originals' even refers to. And Vanity always had her career first over Prince or any man. I don't know if she would refer to herself as an 'original' I doubt even Susan or Kim would label themselves 'the originals'. I mean I doubt any of them were Prince's 'first'.

When you look at the timeline Jill - Vanity -Susannah all came into Prince's camp within a very short time of each other.

Vanity wasn't having it with Prince, she definately was not happy 'sharing' Prince. And on her song Samuelle that is clearly a point toward Jill and Prince

Samuelle
This is your lover calling
Samuelle, do you belong to Marilyn?

How did I know?
She could never love your heart like me

I happened to be at a jazz show last night and one of the singers was a female composer, and just for a bit talked about where women are in the time period. So 'the originals' just popped into my head last night at the show.

I actually never thought that "Marilyn" wasn't a meant to imply Jill Jones, the person, I actually thought it was meant to reference Marilyn Monroe...I remember reading back in the day Prince idolized her and had a big crush on her...she was the epitome of the Glamour Girl that Prince based many of his Protegees on...I felt like in "Samuelle" Vanity was saying in a round about way that she can't compete with this "ideal" and she she doesn't want to have to live up to this woman.."She could never love your heart like me" telling him...I can love you for real because I am a real person...Marilyn is a fantasy woman, an ideal...not real.

I thought the same thing. I don’t believe she was talking about Jill either. Yea he changed Jill to look like Marilyn but Marilyn Monroe was the inspiration for that whole vibe.

icecreamcastle777 said:

Shockadelica9 said:

violetcrush said: Jill insinuated that they had many in this interview so i think Vanity wasn't that mad or upset with jill lol

Huh? Where did you get that from? I read it and she didn’t say that. She was talking about the same stuff she talked about in Duane’s book. She was saying that she heard Prince and Vanity using a Vibrator when they were recording the song Vibrator in the studio coz they were all staying in the same house/studio at the time. That’s why she was saying she didn’t want to get into it in that interview. Girl didn’t say a damn thing about no threesome. I thought everybody knew that Vanity wasn’t having that shit from Prince. You think she liked that Prince was messing around with Jill Jones? That’s one of the reason why the woman left. Where have you been? Some of y’all on here are conspiracy theorist and love insuinuating your own shit.

Well.....Jill did specifically state that the three of them were all living at Prince's house during that period of time. You know a bit of alchohol and ambiance can certainly cause various situations to happen - a menage et trois being one of them Not saying that actually happened, but it's certainly not out of the question. Did Vanity want Jill in the mix?? Of course not, however, she did put up with it for most of her time with him - she put up with Susan too. Prince began his thing with Jill before or during the 1999 tour - probably earlier, because Jill started around the same time as Lisa I believe, or definitely by 1982.

*

It's certainly not a stretch to think that it may have happened once or twice. However, based on what we know of how Prince operated with women I'm sure his time with each was separate. Vanity didn't like it - of course, which is why she and Prince fought all the time. She put up with it though.

icecreamcastle777 said:

Krystalkisses said:

I actually never thought that "Marilyn" wasn't a meant to imply Jill Jones, the person, I actually thought it was meant to reference Marilyn Monroe...I remember reading back in the day Prince idolized her and had a big crush on her...she was the epitome of the Glamour Girl that Prince based many of his Protegees on...I felt like in "Samuelle" Vanity was saying in a round about way that she can't compete with this "ideal" and she she doesn't want to have to live up to this woman.."She could never love your heart like me" telling him...I can love you for real because I am a real person...Marilyn is a fantasy woman, an ideal...not real.

I thought the same thing. I don’t believe she was talking about Jill either. Yea he changed Jill to look like Marilyn but Marilyn Monroe was the inspiration for that whole vibe.

Yes, Marilyn Monroe was his inspiration for changing Jill's look, however, I think Vanity was referring to Jill in that song. It was a way of naming her in an obvious enough way in order to understand what she's singing about. That song was definitely about that love triangle.

violetcrush said:

icecreamcastle777 said:

I thought the same thing. I don’t believe she was talking about Jill either. Yea he changed Jill to look like Marilyn but Marilyn Monroe was the inspiration for that whole vibe.

Yes, Marilyn Monroe was his inspiration for changing Jill's look, however, I think Vanity was referring to Jill in that song. It was a way of naming her in an obvious enough way in order to understand what she's singing about. That song was definitely about that love triangle.

Yeah, she's most likely talking about a real person

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

icecreamcastle777 said:

I just found the interview with Brenda Bennett (on schkopi.com), where it confirms that she and Susannah Melvoin sang together on Blue Limousine:

*

"Brenda compensates for the limited vocal talents of Apollonia by singing in lead on 3 tracks (the album contains 7 songs): "Some Kind Of Lover" (which she co-writes with Prince), "A Million Miles (I Love You ) "And especially" Blue Limousine ". About this last one:"

*

Brenda: Blue Limousine was a bluesy song I liked from the start. I loved working with Susannah Melvoin on the vocals to it. The blend and sound of our voices together (was) amazing. (beautiful nights)

*

"This title will be released as a single in the United States and Europe in late 84, but without success. "Some Kind Of Lover" was the B side."

*

*

Also, here are Peggy McCreary's comments (with schkopi.com) about the recording of When Doves Cry, and Prince deciding to take the Bass off of the song:

*

Exactly, since you're talking about them, have you ever seen them recorded songs with Prince in the studio? From what we know, all the titles of The Time of that time were made by Prince and Morris only, and with Jesse on "Ice Cream Castle". Jam and Lewis were in the studio too?

I do not remember exactly. I know that during my five years with Prince, I saw Jimmy and Terry in the studio a few times, but I can not remember all those moments precisely. I have been interviewed for a book recently (Duane Tudahl for his unmissable book " Prince and the Purple Ra...983 - 1984 "), he showed me studio documents but I could not remember it anymore . My days were very very very long. And Prince appeared, disappeared and reappeared .... And [Duane Tudahl] showed me these documents with these dates, asking me, "Do you remember that day? (Laughs) The hours and the days were very long. Once, I did 24 hours in a row.

But 24 hours on a song or on several?

One song. To finish it. He did not work like the other artists I collaborated with. Usually, when he arrived and started recording a song, we did not go out until we had finished it, that is, recorded and mixed. There were some exceptions, like "When Doves Cry" that was done over two days. And he would come back to a song. In these cases, he would start all over again and not resume where he left off. I do not remember exactly what song we'd worked on for 24 hours, but I remember driving home and saying, oh my God, I worked 24 hours. But it was rewarding. He did not want to stop. Once, he told me he had to go home only because he really needed to sleep. These years were very prolific for him. It was crazy.

And, what makes some titles reworked or transformed several times over several years (We Can Fu-c / nk, Would not You Love To Love Me? ...)

It depends. He could think that the songs were incomplete, that something was missing, or that there was too much and he was not satisfied with it. When I say "When Doves Cry" was done over two days. On the second day, he stripped it, "de-produced." There were many more synthesizers and gaudy guitars. He removed all that on the second day, until he removed the bass and made the version he released. There he was satisfied. And many want to take credit for this idea. But I have the documents, it was only the two of us that day, and when he pressed the button to cut it, he said, "No one will believe that I dared to do that" he smiled and he left(Editor's note: In an interview for Bass Player in 1999 , Prince confirms that it was Jill Jones who advised him to do it as he felt and remove the bass because it embarrassed him ) . I was shown the document from the studio recently, it's thanks to that that I remember it was done over two days. And after his death, the studio receptionist contacted me and said, "Do you remember the day you called me at 7am to make me listen to" When Doves Cry "when it was just finalized? ". Everyone still remembers it, because it's a fabulous song. I know a lot of people make up stories and say it's because of them, but I was there.

*

So, per Peggy McCreary, NO ONE but her and Prince were in the studio when WDC was recorded. Did Prince talk to Jill Jones about his idea to take the bass off of the song the night before he went back to Sunset Sound?? Or, was she the first one to hear the final track? Possibly, but it seems she was not present in the studio when Prince pulled the Bass off.

violetcrush said:

I just found the interview with Brenda Bennett (on schkopi.com), where it confirms that she and Susannah Melvoin sang together on Blue Limousine:

*

"Brenda compensates for the limited vocal talents of Apollonia by singing in lead on 3 tracks (the album contains 7 songs): "Some Kind Of Lover" (which she co-writes with Prince), "A Million Miles (I Love You ) "And especially" Blue Limousine ". About this last one:"

*

Brenda: Blue Limousine was a bluesy song I liked from the start. I loved working with Susannah Melvoin on the vocals to it. The blend and sound of our voices together (was) amazing. (beautiful nights)

*

"This title will be released as a single in the United States and Europe in late 84, but without success. "Some Kind Of Lover" was the B side."

*

*

Also, here are Peggy McCreary's comments (with schkopi.com) about the recording of When Doves Cry, and Prince deciding to take the Bass off of the song:

*

Exactly, since you're talking about them, have you ever seen them recorded songs with Prince in the studio? From what we know, all the titles of The Time of that time were made by Prince and Morris only, and with Jesse on "Ice Cream Castle". Jam and Lewis were in the studio too?

I do not remember exactly. I know that during my five years with Prince, I saw Jimmy and Terry in the studio a few times, but I can not remember all those moments precisely. I have been interviewed for a book recently (Duane Tudahl for his unmissable book " Prince and the Purple Ra...983 - 1984 "), he showed me studio documents but I could not remember it anymore . My days were very very very long. And Prince appeared, disappeared and reappeared .... And [Duane Tudahl] showed me these documents with these dates, asking me, "Do you remember that day? (Laughs) The hours and the days were very long. Once, I did 24 hours in a row.

But 24 hours on a song or on several?

One song. To finish it. He did not work like the other artists I collaborated with. Usually, when he arrived and started recording a song, we did not go out until we had finished it, that is, recorded and mixed. There were some exceptions, like "When Doves Cry" that was done over two days. And he would come back to a song. In these cases, he would start all over again and not resume where he left off. I do not remember exactly what song we'd worked on for 24 hours, but I remember driving home and saying, oh my God, I worked 24 hours. But it was rewarding. He did not want to stop. Once, he told me he had to go home only because he really needed to sleep. These years were very prolific for him. It was crazy.

And, what makes some titles reworked or transformed several times over several years (We Can Fu-c / nk, Would not You Love To Love Me? ...)

It depends. He could think that the songs were incomplete, that something was missing, or that there was too much and he was not satisfied with it. When I say "When Doves Cry" was done over two days. On the second day, he stripped it, "de-produced." There were many more synthesizers and gaudy guitars. He removed all that on the second day, until he removed the bass and made the version he released. There he was satisfied. And many want to take credit for this idea. But I have the documents, it was only the two of us that day, and when he pressed the button to cut it, he said, "No one will believe that I dared to do that" he smiled and he left(Editor's note: In an interview for Bass Player in 1999 , Prince confirms that it was Jill Jones who advised him to do it as he felt and remove the bass because it embarrassed him ) . I was shown the document from the studio recently, it's thanks to that that I remember it was done over two days. And after his death, the studio receptionist contacted me and said, "Do you remember the day you called me at 7am to make me listen to" When Doves Cry "when it was just finalized? ". Everyone still remembers it, because it's a fabulous song. I know a lot of people make up stories and say it's because of them, but I was there.

*

So, per Peggy McCreary, NO ONE but her and Prince were in the studio when WDC was recorded. Did Prince talk to Jill Jones about his idea to take the bass off of the song the night before he went back to Sunset Sound?? Or, was she the first one to hear the final track? Possibly, but it seems she was not present in the studio when Prince pulled the Bass off.

It seems you have it out for Jill? I feel sorry for you. Truly.

[Edited 7/12/19 0:28am]

It is a damn shame that "Blue Limousine" wasn't the big hit that it deserved to be I can't understand why there wasn't any promotion.No video,no airplay,no nothing.

violetcrush said:

I just found the interview with Brenda Bennett (on schkopi.com), where it confirms that she and Susannah Melvoin sang together on Blue Limousine:

*

"Brenda compensates for the limited vocal talents of Apollonia by singing in lead on 3 tracks (the album contains 7 songs): "Some Kind Of Lover" (which she co-writes with Prince), "A Million Miles (I Love You ) "And especially" Blue Limousine ". About this last one:"

*

Brenda: Blue Limousine was a bluesy song I liked from the start. I loved working with Susannah Melvoin on the vocals to it. The blend and sound of our voices together (was) amazing. (beautiful nights)

*

This title will be released as a single in the United States and Europe in late 84, but without success. "Some Kind Of Lover" was the B side.

SoulAlive said:

It is a damn shame that "Blue Limousine" wasn't the big hit that it deserved to be I can't understand why there wasn't any promotion.No video,no airplay,no nothing.

violetcrush said:

I just found the interview with Brenda Bennett (on schkopi.com), where it confirms that she and Susannah Melvoin sang together on Blue Limousine:

*

"Brenda compensates for the limited vocal talents of Apollonia by singing in lead on 3 tracks (the album contains 7 songs): "Some Kind Of Lover" (which she co-writes with Prince), "A Million Miles (I Love You ) "And especially" Blue Limousine ". About this last one:"

*

*

This title will be released as a single in the United States and Europe in late 84, but without success. "Some Kind Of Lover" was the B side.

I agree. I think it's the best track on that album.

gwiliandre said:

violetcrush said:

I just found the interview with Brenda Bennett (on schkopi.com), where it confirms that she and Susannah Melvoin sang together on Blue Limousine:

*

"Brenda compensates for the limited vocal talents of Apollonia by singing in lead on 3 tracks (the album contains 7 songs): "Some Kind Of Lover" (which she co-writes with Prince), "A Million Miles (I Love You ) "And especially" Blue Limousine ". About this last one:"

*

*

"This title will be released as a single in the United States and Europe in late 84, but without success. "Some Kind Of Lover" was the B side."

*

*

Also, here are Peggy McCreary's comments (with schkopi.com) about the recording of When Doves Cry, and Prince deciding to take the Bass off of the song:

*

Exactly, since you're talking about them, have you ever seen them recorded songs with Prince in the studio? From what we know, all the titles of The Time of that time were made by Prince and Morris only, and with Jesse on "Ice Cream Castle". Jam and Lewis were in the studio too?

I do not remember exactly. I know that during my five years with Prince, I saw Jimmy and Terry in the studio a few times, but I can not remember all those moments precisely. I have been interviewed for a book recently (Duane Tudahl for his unmissable book " Prince and the Purple Ra...983 - 1984 "), he showed me studio documents but I could not remember it anymore . My days were very very very long. And Prince appeared, disappeared and reappeared .... And [Duane Tudahl] showed me these documents with these dates, asking me, "Do you remember that day? (Laughs) The hours and the days were very long. Once, I did 24 hours in a row.

But 24 hours on a song or on several?

One song. To finish it. He did not work like the other artists I collaborated with. Usually, when he arrived and started recording a song, we did not go out until we had finished it, that is, recorded and mixed. There were some exceptions, like "When Doves Cry" that was done over two days. And he would come back to a song. In these cases, he would start all over again and not resume where he left off. I do not remember exactly what song we'd worked on for 24 hours, but I remember driving home and saying, oh my God, I worked 24 hours. But it was rewarding. He did not want to stop. Once, he told me he had to go home only because he really needed to sleep. These years were very prolific for him. It was crazy.

And, what makes some titles reworked or transformed several times over several years (We Can Fu-c / nk, Would not You Love To Love Me? ...)

It depends. He could think that the songs were incomplete, that something was missing, or that there was too much and he was not satisfied with it. When I say "When Doves Cry" was done over two days. On the second day, he stripped it, "de-produced." There were many more synthesizers and gaudy guitars. He removed all that on the second day, until he removed the bass and made the version he released. There he was satisfied. And many want to take credit for this idea. But I have the documents, it was only the two of us that day, and when he pressed the button to cut it, he said, "No one will believe that I dared to do that" he smiled and he left(Editor's note: In an interview for Bass Player in 1999 , Prince confirms that it was Jill Jones who advised him to do it as he felt and remove the bass because it embarrassed him ) . I was shown the document from the studio recently, it's thanks to that that I remember it was done over two days. And after his death, the studio receptionist contacted me and said, "Do you remember the day you called me at 7am to make me listen to" When Doves Cry "when it was just finalized? ". Everyone still remembers it, because it's a fabulous song. I know a lot of people make up stories and say it's because of them, but I was there.

*

So, per Peggy McCreary, NO ONE but her and Prince were in the studio when WDC was recorded. Did Prince talk to Jill Jones about his idea to take the bass off of the song the night before he went back to Sunset Sound?? Or, was she the first one to hear the final track? Possibly, but it seems she was not present in the studio when Prince pulled the Bass off.

It seems you have it out for Jill? I feel sorry for you. Truly.

[Edited 7/12/19 0:28am]

^^^^

gwiliandre (as part of my original post) said:

It seems you have it out for Jill? I feel sorry for you. Truly.

Nope, not at all gwiliandre. However, after reading and listening to several of Jill's interviews it seems that many of her statements about situations with Prince during that time contradict those of people who were more directly involved - as noted above with Peggy McCreary's statements about the recording of WDC.

*

Much of Jill's talk has also been extremely catty, especially toward other associates, which is completely unnecessary, and indicates that she has some unresolved feelings of jealousy and/or spite toward others in the camp at that time.

YES

That should have been the first video out. Right in the month PR the movie was released.
That song could have been the Apollonia 6 opening from the movie. It fit the opening scene perfectly.

SoulAlive said:

It is a damn shame that "Blue Limousine" wasn't the big hit that it deserved to be I can't understand why there wasn't any promotion.No video,no airplay,no nothing.

violetcrush said:

I just found the interview with Brenda Bennett (on schkopi.com), where it confirms that she and Susannah Melvoin sang together on Blue Limousine:

*

"Brenda compensates for the limited vocal talents of Apollonia by singing in lead on 3 tracks (the album contains 7 songs): "Some Kind Of Lover" (which she co-writes with Prince), "A Million Miles (I Love You ) "And especially" Blue Limousine ". About this last one:"

*

*

This title will be released as a single in the United States and Europe in late 84, but without success. "Some Kind Of Lover" was the B side.

I wonder why Sheila's presence/influence is never mentioned by any of the 'other women'. Given her long friendship with Prince and the fact they were engaged at a certain point she must have meant a lot to him. Creatively as well. I don't understand why JJ is often presenting herself as if she was the most important/present woman during the 1999/Purple Rain era. At least that's the impression she gives me. Sheila was around at that time too.... They all were. Well, we'll never know all the nasty details

agirl said:

agirl said:

I wonder why Sheila's presence/influence is never mentioned by any of the 'other women'. Given her long friendship with Prince and the fact they were engaged at a certain point she must have meant a lot to him. Creatively as well. I don't understand why JJ is often presenting herself as if she was the most important/present woman during the 1999/Purple Rain era. At least that's the impression she gives me. Sheila was around at that time too.... They all were. Well, we'll never know all the nasty details

The only person that actually talks about the relationships with other women is Jill. And I asked too, why does she always focus on Susannah, and not Sheila E, Anna Fantastic(whom she is now friends with). Jill cannot believe that if Susannah did not come into the camp that Prince would be all his right? I mean focusing on the 'prominent' women, doesn't exclude the few who were not, but there for spurts of time.

.

I do have a feeling that Prince & Sheila were more 'platonically romantic' over 'sexually romantic' for some reason.

violetcrush said:

agirl said:

I wonder why Sheila's presence/influence is never mentioned by any of the 'other women'. Given her long friendship with Prince and the fact they were engaged at a certain point she must have meant a lot to him. Creatively as well. I don't understand why JJ is often presenting herself as if she was the most important/present woman during the 1999/Purple Rain era. At least that's the impression she gives me. Sheila was around at that time too.... They all were. Well, we'll never know all the nasty details

Sheila, although Prince had first met her in ‘79, did not join the camp until early ‘84. She had been touring with Lionel Ritchie in ‘83, and Prince began sending her notes and flowers trying to convince her to join his group to record a solo album. Sheila stated (during her interview with Questlove) that it took awhile to convince her, because she did not think she could be a solo performer - she was not a singer, and she really wanted to play drums.
*
Technically, Jill was with Prince prior to Susannah and Sheila joining the
camp, but Susan was his girlfriend prior to Jill being there, and Vanity took the
“main girl” spot after she arrived. So, it seems Jill was always more of a “side” relationship - no matter how she wants to embellish it.
*
Susannah has stated that by Spring of ‘84 she and Prince were having problems in their relationship, which may have had something to do with Sheila coming on to the scene. She and Prince were recording her first album together during that time.
*
The story of Prince asking Sheila to marry him on stage during a concert is interesting. I believe this was supposed to have been during the SOTT tour, but Susannah also recently confirmed that Prince was flying her over often to be with him during that tour. Apparently, he had also begun to have visits with Anna Garcia as well. He certainly was always “juggling hearts in a 3-ring circus”!!!

icecreamcastle777 said:

violetcrush said:

Sheila, although Prince had first met her in ‘79, did not join the camp until early ‘84. She had been touring with Lionel Ritchie in ‘83, and Prince began sending her notes and flowers trying to convince her to join his group to record a solo album. Sheila stated (during her interview with Questlove) that it took awhile to convince her, because she did not think she could be a solo performer - she was not a singer, and she really wanted to play drums.
*
Technically, Jill was with Prince prior to Susannah and Sheila joining the
camp, but Susan was his girlfriend prior to Jill being there, and Vanity took the
“main girl” spot after she arrived. So, it seems Jill was always more of a “side” relationship - no matter how she wants to embellish it.
*
Susannah has stated that by Spring of ‘84 she and Prince were having problems in their relationship, which may have had something to do with Sheila coming on to the scene. She and Prince were recording her first album together during that time.
*
The story of Prince asking Sheila to marry him on stage during a concert is interesting. I believe this was supposed to have been during the SOTT tour, but Susannah also recently confirmed that Prince was flying her over often to be with him during that tour. Apparently, he had also begun to have visits with Anna Garcia as well. He certainly was always “juggling hearts in a 3-ring circus”!!!

Naw, according to Sheila's book, Prince was wooing and spending time with her for a long ass time. Even when she was on tour with Lionel Richie in 83.

In that book she wrote, she said he sent her crazy amounts of flowers and love letters telling her how much he cared about her and how he wanted to move the relationship to another level. She said he would even fly out to see her sometimes when she was on tour with Lionel Richie trying to wear her down. Y’all need to stop playing if y’all think Prince and Sheila were “platonic.”

I feel u on the Jill Jones embellishment stuff, and she does seem jealous of Susannah, for real. She need to get off Vanity’s coattail too. She sounds mad desperate talking about, "Vanity and I were the originals” Apollonia says the same shit about she and Vanity being "the originals." Some of these Prince girls need to step off Vanity’s coat tails. I think it's funny how they all try to associate and compare themselves to Vanity to seem relevant. Every time I read an interview by them, they’re talking about being around Prince when he was with Vanity. Even on that liner notes from The Piano and Microphone 83, Jill had the perfect OPP to talk about herself and her relationship with Prince, but instead she choose to talk about running into Prince when he was with Vanity. Why do they have to bring up Vanity in all their stories? I wanna know more about the car she said Prince offered her. So, she turned it down? Hard to believe Prince was buying cars for side girls, but barely paying his legit side bands. Just sayin.

I actually think Prince did ask Sheila to marry him on stage, but I don't think he meant that shit. I feel the same about him asking Susananh too though. I don't think he really meant that shit either. Not the way he was acting and carrying on. Sorry, I know you think Susananh was the love of his life and shit but nobody treat u like that when u the love of their lives. In my opinion, I think he was just stringing both Sheila and Susananh along with "proposing." Turned out to be true since he didn't end up marrying none of them. Also who called off the engagements? Prince of course. I think he just let that shit ride out with Sheila until she realized he didn't mean that shit and it wasn't gonna happen. He played the cold feet card with Susannah and called off the engagement saying he didn't feel like getting married no more, but I don't think he ever had any intention of Marrying the chick. Prince had a hard ass heart and no woman ever broke through that shit. And I mean None of them. I wish one of them did. He would have prolly been here today.

I don't think Prince liked confrontation with his ladies.

I think he gave Susannah a ring as he found it difficult to explain to her that she would not be acting in his movie. It was a consolation item, IMO.

He also asked Allen to take her back to Minnesota immed. upon arrival to France. (This has been documented by Allan Leeds. This is not the behavior of a man who is deeply in love.)

Personally, I think many of his early girlfriends were beautiful and sexy but wounded. Jilll must have come from some emotional deprivation to continue as long as she did with her conflicted feelings towards Prince. Someone with more of a sense of self would likly have left earlier.

Vanity, as we know, was very traumatized by her upbringing, though she was beautiful and able to use that beauty to leverage other oipportunities, she remained vulnerable to men/substances.

Susannah M. IMO may have also had some dealings with divorce (parents). She has also struck me as someone who is adrift.

The only early 'girlfriend' who seemed able to extricate herself was Susan Moonsie. Personally, I think she knew Prince before he was a star and was able to see that he had struggled with his family and was often lonely as a teen/young man. She also seems to have a strong family attachment which, IMO,

somewhat innoculated her from the fantasy of the Prince world. We still don't hear from her.

PeggyO said:

I don't think Prince liked confrontation with his ladies.

I think he gave Susannah a ring as he found it difficult to explain to her that she would not be acting in his movie. It was a consolation item, IMO.

He also asked Allen to take her back to Minnesota immed. upon arrival to France. (This has been documented by Allan Leeds. This is not the behavior of a man who is deeply in love.)

Personally, I think many of his early girlfriends were beautiful and sexy but wounded. Jilll must have come from some emotional deprivation to continue as long as she did with her conflicted feelings towards Prince. Someone with more of a sense of self would likly have left earlier.

Vanity, as we know, was very traumatized by her upbringing, though she was beautiful and able to use that beauty to leverage other oipportunities, she remained vulnerable to men/substances.

Susannah M. IMO may have also had some dealings with divorce (parents). She has also struck me as someone who is adrift.

The only early 'girlfriend' who seemed able to extricate herself was Susan Moonsie. Personally, I think she knew Prince before he was a star and was able to see that he had struggled with his family and was often lonely as a teen/young man. She also seems to have a strong family attachment which, IMO,

somewhat innoculated her from the fantasy of the Prince world. We still don't hear from her.

Outside of Jill, Prince stayed friends with the majority of the early period 1980-1988 people men and women, including Susannah Vanity Sheila E, Susan Moonsie was at some 3121 shows etc

I thinkPrince deeply loved them, but Prince himself came from a very unstable family life and a detached mother/son relationship, that really affected him. So how he dealt with things I agree, he didn't want much confrontation and how he communicated was always so direct.

Yes, I agree that Prince was also hurt by his parents and likely resonated with some of their 'wounds'.

Most did stay in touch but I feel that some did not move on with ease.

I am curious why Susan Moonsie seems to be fond of her time with them but seemed to be able to graciously move along. IMO, she seemed to have the gift of parental grounding that gave her that ability. She seemed to be able to extricate herself from the romantic triangulations with grace as well.

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeggyO said:

I don't think Prince liked confrontation with his ladies.

I think he gave Susannah a ring as he found it difficult to explain to her that she would not be acting in his movie. It was a consolation item, IMO.

He also asked Allen to take her back to Minnesota immed. upon arrival to France. (This has been documented by Allan Leeds. This is not the behavior of a man who is deeply in love.)

Personally, I think many of his early girlfriends were beautiful and sexy but wounded. Jilll must have come from some emotional deprivation to continue as long as she did with her conflicted feelings towards Prince. Someone with more of a sense of self would likly have left earlier.

Vanity, as we know, was very traumatized by her upbringing, though she was beautiful and able to use that beauty to leverage other oipportunities, she remained vulnerable to men/substances.

Susannah M. IMO may have also had some dealings with divorce (parents). She has also struck me as someone who is adrift.

The only early 'girlfriend' who seemed able to extricate herself was Susan Moonsie. Personally, I think she knew Prince before he was a star and was able to see that he had struggled with his family and was often lonely as a teen/young man. She also seems to have a strong family attachment which, IMO,

somewhat innoculated her from the fantasy of the Prince world. We still don't hear from her.

Outside of Jill, Prince stayed friends with the majority of the early period 1980-1988 people men and women, including Susannah Vanity Sheila E, Susan Moonsie was at some 3121 shows etc

I thinkPrince deeply loved them, but Prince himself came from a very unstable family life and a detached mother/son relationship, that really affected him. So how he dealt with things I agree, he didn't want much confrontation and how he communicated was always so direct.

PeggyO said:

Yes, I agree that Prince was also hurt by his parents and likely resonated with some of their 'wounds'.

Most did stay in touch but I feel that some did not move on with ease.

I am curious why Susan Moonsie seems to be fond of her time with them but seemed to be able to graciously move along. IMO, she seemed to have the gift of parental grounding that gave her that ability. She seemed to be able to extricate herself from the romantic triangulations with grace as well.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Outside of Jill, Prince stayed friends with the majority of the early period 1980-1988 people men and women, including Susannah Vanity Sheila E, Susan Moonsie was at some 3121 shows etc

I thinkPrince deeply loved them, but Prince himself came from a very unstable family life and a detached mother/son relationship, that really affected him. So how he dealt with things I agree, he didn't want much confrontation and how he communicated was always so direct.

I agree that Susasn seemed to be stable and grounded - even through Prince's rise to stardom, which is amazing because she was so young. She had the where-with-all to remove herself from the intimate situation with Prince by 1984. However, not long after that time she also removed herself completely from the music business. She got married, and was no longer running in the same circles as the rest of the group. At some point she moved back to Trinidad as well. The only person she remained in contact with was Brenda, because they had a true bond/friendship. It's touching to listen to Brenda's interviews about her friendship with Susan. I'm glad they had each other during their time with Prince. I'm sure Brenda's support helped Susan through the relationship drama with Prince, and the Vanity/Jill situation. Although, I have no doubt that Prince was with other women before they came into the mix. We know that was just his m/o.

*

I think Susannah was very important to Prince, and she was a special love for him - regardless of his infidelities with other women, because that did not change with any of the more serious relationships he had - but you can hear it in the songs for her. You mentioned that Prince sent Susannah back to MN after they arrived in Nice, which came from Alan Leeds. However, we know that by a certain point she was back there with him again, because she is prominent in the Girls & Boys video, which was filmed November 1985 in Nice during the end of filming UTCM. Susannah has also stated she spent a lot of time at the rented Villa during the filming, so she was there for a good chunk of that time. I had also read that Prince took Susannah to Italy after the film wrapped before heading back to MN - Susannah did not mention that during her interviews, so that would have to be confirmed. We also know now that Prince made quite an effort to try to convince her to move back to MN with him, and that they continued seeing each other for several years after she moved back to LA. I think losing her was a big regret for him. Would he have changed his ways in the relationship? No. So, as Susannah stated about their relationship, "it was layered, beautiful, complicated, and never to be."

*

His complexities, along with his inability to be monogamous, made it impossible to sustain a long-term relationship with him - even harder during the height of his fame when everyone wanted a piece of him, especially the women.

Yes, I think there might be something about knowing someone prior to being a star, and/or seeing the other person 'stuff' early enough to not have gotten caught up in it.

.

Even with parental grounding people can be swept though. I think it might depend on how attached she was and how much Prince attached her to the scene. Again, I don't see anyone outside of Jill still 'reliving' the romanticism of her rel with Prince to this degree. Maybe Susan was just not into Prince as much. Truth is Prince 1982-1987 was addictive. Almost like some potion affected him and everyone in the camp or something. To be in the scene, and a part of the music, singing on the songs/playing instruments, living with-romantically and platonically etc had to be very intoxicating. I look back at that time period and it was such a whirlwind of excitement. I can equate it to a degree to Studio 54 culture, and various exciting periods in the 70s and 60s that can never happen again.
.
Of course fans are going to want to know stuff, and it's not wrong to talk about it, but when you still go after other women as if it just happened, that is problematic.

PeggyO said:

Yes, I agree that Prince was also hurt by his parents and likely resonated with some of their 'wounds'.

Most did stay in touch but I feel that some did not move on with ease.

I am curious why Susan Moonsie seems to be fond of her time with them but seemed to be able to graciously move along. IMO, she seemed to have the gift of parental grounding that gave her that ability. She seemed to be able to extricate herself from the romantic triangulations with grace as well.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Outside of Jill, Prince stayed friends with the majority of the early period 1980-1988 people men and women, including Susannah Vanity Sheila E, Susan Moonsie was at some 3121 shows etc

I thinkPrince deeply loved them, but Prince himself came from a very unstable family life and a detached mother/son relationship, that really affected him. So how he dealt with things I agree, he didn't want much confrontation and how he communicated was always so direct.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes, I think there might be something about knowing someone prior to being a star, and/or seeing the other person 'stuff' early enough to not have gotten caught up in it.

.

Even with parental grounding people can be swept though. I think it might depend on how attached she was and how much Prince attached her to the scene. Again, I don't see anyone outside of Jill still 'reliving' the romanticism of her rel with Prince to this degree. Maybe Susan was just not into Prince as much. Truth is Prince 1982-1987 was addictive. Almost like some potion affected him and everyone in the camp or something. To be in the scene, and a part of the music, singing on the songs/playing instruments, living with-romantically and platonically etc had to be very intoxicating. I look back at that time period and it was such a whirlwind of excitement. I can equate it to a degree to Studio 54 culture, and various exciting periods in the 70s and 60s that can never happen again.
.
Of course fans are going to want to know stuff, and it's not wrong to talk about it, but when you still go after other women as if it just happened, that is problematic.

PeggyO said:

Yes, I agree that Prince was also hurt by his parents and likely resonated with some of their 'wounds'.

Most did stay in touch but I feel that some did not move on with ease.

I am curious why Susan Moonsie seems to be fond of her time with them but seemed to be able to graciously move along. IMO, she seemed to have the gift of parental grounding that gave her that ability. She seemed to be able to extricate herself from the romantic triangulations with grace as well.

Yes, all good points here. I think also, Susan was just 16 when she first met Prince in '79/'80 (per the Biographies), and the amount of emotional, physical, and intellectual changes we go through between the ages of 16-25 yrs is quite immense. I'm sure she was swept up in that meteoric rising of Prince as well. Every year it got bigger and bigger until the PR explosion. They were all riding that wave with him, and navigating all of the drama that came with that situation - both on a professional and personal level. I think Susan, for Prince, represented that sweet innocence and a period of time when he was still relatively unknown - as compared to the 1983-85 period. They had that bond.

*

I honestly think, with regard to Susannah, he was just straight-up blindsided by intense feelings that were more than just physical. He knew and got close to her long before the physical intimacy happened, which I think makes a big difference. The story is that he loved Wendy's personality, humor and intellect - then he met her twin who had all of the same traits, and was also heterosexual. I think to him she had that mind/body package that he wanted.

*

The jealousy and spite toward Susannah that seems to resonate with Jill may be tied to her knowing his depth of feeling for her, or the fact that her time with him took a back seat during that period. Hard to say for sure, because it's not really been specified - just many cryptic digs and insinuations.

violetcrush said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes, I think there might be something about knowing someone prior to being a star, and/or seeing the other person 'stuff' early enough to not have gotten caught up in it.

.

Even with parental grounding people can be swept though. I think it might depend on how attached she was and how much Prince attached her to the scene. Again, I don't see anyone outside of Jill still 'reliving' the romanticism of her rel with Prince to this degree. Maybe Susan was just not into Prince as much. Truth is Prince 1982-1987 was addictive. Almost like some potion affected him and everyone in the camp or something. To be in the scene, and a part of the music, singing on the songs/playing instruments, living with-romantically and platonically etc had to be very intoxicating. I look back at that time period and it was such a whirlwind of excitement. I can equate it to a degree to Studio 54 culture, and various exciting periods in the 70s and 60s that can never happen again.
.
Of course fans are going to want to know stuff, and it's not wrong to talk about it, but when you still go after other women as if it just happened, that is problematic.

Yes, all good points here. I think also, Susan was just 16 when she first met Prince in '79/'80 (per the Biographies), and the amount of emotional, physical, and intellectual changes we go through between the ages of 16-25 yrs is quite immense. I'm sure she was swept up in that meteoric rising of Prince as well. Every year it got bigger and bigger until the PR explosion. They were all riding that wave with him, and navigating all of the drama that came with that situation - both on a professional and personal level. I think Susan, for Prince, represented that sweet innocence and a period of time when he was still relatively unknown - as compared to the 1983-85 period. They had that bond.

*

I honestly think, with regard to Susannah, he was just straight-up blindsided by intense feelings that were more than just physical. He knew and got close to her long before the physical intimacy happened, which I think makes a big difference. The story is that he loved Wendy's personality, humor and intellect - then he met her twin who had all of the same traits, and was also heterosexual. I think to him she had that mind/body package that he wanted.

*

The jealousy and spite toward Susannah that seems to resonate with Jill may be tied to her knowing his depth of feeling for her, or the fact that her time with him took a back seat during that period. Hard to say for sure, because it's not really been specified - just many cryptic digs and insinuations.

Yeah, and Prince was close with the families of the Revolution members too and especially Wendy Susannah & Jonathon, along with David & Lisa Coleman.

.

So it wasn't just romantic stuff, it was family. Prince dedicated The Love We Make to Jonathan. And of course In This Bed... to Susannah Wendy & Lisa