Deadflow3r said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I agree, some people are extremely gifted back up singers and their presence shines then. Like during 1999.

Prince should have added her to the band with Cat and Wally, I didn't need Greg. Jill Wally Cat

and then maybe she could have done some lead songs from her able to start out

I was the official Bria hater of the org when Lotusflow3r came out. My point was that if he was going to highlight someone why not Marva or Shelby? He picked the person with the least stage presence. My feeling is, and I can not prove this, if Prince thought you were sexy he made you feel that you were a superstar, amazing, the next big thing. Truly Tamar, Jill and others had some talent and ability to handle the microphone but the grit and determination outplays sex appeal. If you are the lead then you are the Boss of your show and all the final responsibility lies on your shoulders. Like any other job. If you want to not be in a line-up or be a back-up singer do you want to put in all the time and effort that it takes to be successful. It is like a cook that wants to open their own restaurant. Yeah, you will be able to cook what you want but you will be there ALL of the time if you are a new owner just trying to get your restaurant up and going. The fact that you were a top chef at a very successful restaurant is only going to take your restaurant so far.

Thank you for saying this, I really appreciate it. Not sure what your point is though, sorry, maybe I'm just tired.

As to why not Marva or Shelby. I guess it's a matter of casting. Not sure abour Marva, I have her 1981 album and liked it a lot when I heard it but I'd have to listen to it again. As for Shelby, her persona and voice is just totally not Elixer.

Now we have 2 theories: one is Prince wrote Elixer entirely. In such a case, Prince would cast musicians the way a director casts actors: "I need you to play that part". Now do you like Elixer? Remove Bria from the equation, think of it as a Prince album with a guest vocalist, and ask yourself do you like it? If you don't then well it doesn't matters who sings it. If you do IDK about you but I personally think Bria is the right actor to play that part, her voice and attitude fit the record perfectly. Now did Bria want to be a star? Obvioulsy not. She shot a music video and did a TV interview, period. No live TV promotion, no tours or live performance, no social media presence, nothing. She pretty much disappeared after the album as if she'd never been there. IDK what he plans in life were but she sure didn't try much to capitalize on working with Prince. She appears to be a very humble, low profile person and she deserves respect for this. But let's forget Bria, that record is a Prince record, and she played her part perfectly. Only in Prince world do people make such a fuss about vocalists, it's common for other composers to use vocalists and release the records under their own name, and the vocalist is just like the drummer or the piano player: a sideman.

Now here's the other theory: Elixer was a collaboration. Why? Credits and royalties were shared BUT Kept Woman was copyrighted twice, once for Tamar as a P composition, the second time as a P/Bria composition. Oh-oh. This seems to suggest Bria's co-credits were all fake. But then we got a song on FB 3 years later (In Ur Bed) that seemed to deal with her break-up with P but sounds like an Elixer outtake, with a VERY similat melody pattern, which brings the question of whether she co-wrote the whole album or Prince co-wrote that song or she tried to emulate the songs he wrote for her. Maybe it's an Elixer outtake but if it's a Bria composition the it appears that Bria probably really co-wrote the whole of Elixer, and if so it answers your question: it couldn't have been Shelby or Marva because Bria was a creative force behind the project.

In either case, I say she's cool, and the record rocks :nod

databank said:

Deadflow3r said:

I was the official Bria hater of the org when Lotusflow3r came out. My point was that if he was going to highlight someone why not Marva or Shelby? He picked the person with the least stage presence. My feeling is, and I can not prove this, if Prince thought you were sexy he made you feel that you were a superstar, amazing, the next big thing. Truly Tamar, Jill and others had some talent and ability to handle the microphone but the grit and determination outplays sex appeal. If you are the lead then you are the Boss of your show and all the final responsibility lies on your shoulders. Like any other job. If you want to not be in a line-up or be a back-up singer do you want to put in all the time and effort that it takes to be successful. It is like a cook that wants to open their own restaurant. Yeah, you will be able to cook what you want but you will be there ALL of the time if you are a new owner just trying to get your restaurant up and going. The fact that you were a top chef at a very successful restaurant is only going to take your restaurant so far.

Thank you for saying this, I really appreciate it. Not sure what your point is though, sorry, maybe I'm just tired.

As to why not Marva or Shelby. I guess it's a matter of casting. Not sure abour Marva, I have her 1981 album and liked it a lot when I heard it but I'd have to listen to it again. As for Shelby, her persona and voice is just totally not Elixer.

Now we have 2 theories: one is Prince wrote Elixer entirely. In such a case, Prince would cast musicians the way a director casts actors: "I need you to play that part". Now do you like Elixer? Remove Bria from the equation, think of it as a Prince album with a guest vocalist, and ask yourself do you like it? If you don't then well it doesn't matters who sings it. If you do IDK about you but I personally think Bria is the right actor to play that part, her voice and attitude fit the record perfectly. Now did Bria want to be a star? Obvioulsy not. She shot a music video and did a TV interview, period. No live TV promotion, no tours or live performance, no social media presence, nothing. She pretty much disappeared after the album as if she'd never been there. IDK what he plans in life were but she sure didn't try much to capitalize on working with Prince. She appears to be a very humble, low profile person and she deserves respect for this. But let's forget Bria, that record is a Prince record, and she played her part perfectly. Only in Prince world do people make such a fuss about vocalists, it's common for other composers to use vocalists and release the records under their own name, and the vocalist is just like the drummer or the piano player: a sideman.

Now here's the other theory: Elixer was a collaboration. Why? Credits and royalties were shared BUT Kept Woman was copyrighted twice, once for Tamar as a P composition, the second time as a P/Bria composition. Oh-oh. This seems to suggest Bria's co-credits were all fake. But then we got a song on FB 3 years later (In Ur Bed) that seemed to deal with her break-up with P but sounds like an Elixer outtake, with a VERY similat melody pattern, which brings the question of whether she co-wrote the whole album or Prince co-wrote that song or she tried to emulate the songs he wrote for her. Maybe it's an Elixer outtake but if it's a Bria composition the it appears that Bria probably really co-wrote the whole of Elixer, and if so it answers your question: it couldn't have been Shelby or Marva because Bria was a creative force behind the project.

In either case, I say she's cool, and the record rocks :nod

You have valid points.

I was thinking more Marva, it would have been a stretch for Shelby. The songs were some of the best songs on the 3CD compilation and they died because she didn't appear on stage (rumor is she had stage fright badly) and poof she was gone. Not even sure if she truly wanted to be more then a studio backup singer. I think he pushed her out there. ( Part of the mentoring of a woman in her mid 30"s I guess.)

Deadflow3r said:

SoulAlive said:

yeah,the truth is,not everybody can be the 'front person'.You can have a great voice,but do you have a strong stage presence? Prince had his doubts about Jill.He later told her that she should dye her hair black and get a boob job

I thought Jill was adorable. If Cindy Lauper could get her name out there then looks can't be everything.

He's not saying Jill was not adorable.

Jill said Prince told her she had no charisma and should dye her hair and get a boob job.

I think after she gave up promoting the album after that Jodi Whatley show, Prince cooled toward her.


Vanity could not sing as good as Jill, but she OWNED that front position. So did Susan and Brenda

I wonder if,when Prince was putting Vanity 6 together in 1982,he considered Jill Jones for that group in his "1999" video,he has her wearing lingerie and looking like a naughty Marilyn Monroe.Perhaps the group could have been four members (like the Mary Jane Girls)?. Jill ended up singing backup vocals for them on the 1999 tour,anyway.

OldFriends4Sale said:

SoulAlive said:

perhaps Prince could have built a group around her....maybe another girl group?

Pandora 6

can you image(if Susannah stayed) Susannah Melvoin Jill Jones and Cat =Pandora 6 lol

Can't even imagine how that would have worked Jill hated Susannah

*

Although, it does seem that Prince had planned for Susannah to be part of the SOTT tour, because the peach dress worn by Cat was originally made for her. Wish we had more information on that story - in terms of what roll she would have played if she had not left MN.

SoulAlive said:

I wonder if,when Prince was putting Vanity 6 together in 1982,he considered Jill Jones for that group in his "1999" video,he has her wearing lingerie and looking like a naughty Marilyn Monroe.Perhaps the group could have been four members (like the Mary Jane Girls)?. Jill ended up singing backup vocals for them on the 1999 tour,anyway.

I think Vanity 6 was always planned to be just three girls. The original line-up was Jamie Schoop, Susan and her Sister Loreen - prior to him meeting Vanity and Jill coming on board. I think he added Jill on stage with his band to add more spice and sexuality to their show.

violetcrush said:

SoulAlive said:

I wonder if,when Prince was putting Vanity 6 together in 1982,he considered Jill Jones for that group in his "1999" video,he has her wearing lingerie and looking like a naughty Marilyn Monroe.Perhaps the group could have been four members (like the Mary Jane Girls)?. Jill ended up singing backup vocals for them on the 1999 tour,anyway.

I think Vanity 6 was always planned to be just three girls. The original line-up was Jamie Schoop, Susan and her Sister Loreen - prior to him meeting Vanity and Jill coming on board. I think he added Jill on stage with his band to add more spice and sexuality to their show.

Vanity 8 just doesn't roll off the tongue as well.

violetcrush said:

SoulAlive said:

I wonder if,when Prince was putting Vanity 6 together in 1982,he considered Jill Jones for that group in his "1999" video,he has her wearing lingerie and looking like a naughty Marilyn Monroe.Perhaps the group could have been four members (like the Mary Jane Girls)?. Jill ended up singing backup vocals for them on the 1999 tour,anyway.

I think Vanity 6 was always planned to be just three girls. The original line-up was Jamie Schoop, Susan and her Sister Loreen - prior to him meeting Vanity and Jill coming on board. I think he added Jill on stage with his band to add more spice and sexuality to their show.

I think he just added Jill to help out with the vocals while the ladies performed.

We couldn't see Jill and the Time behind that curtain.

violetcrush said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Pandora 6

can you image(if Susannah stayed) Susannah Melvoin Jill Jones and Cat =Pandora 6 lol

Can't even imagine how that would have worked Jill hated Susannah

*

Although, it does seem that Prince had planned for Susannah to be part of the SOTT tour, because the peach dress worn by Cat was originally made for her. Wish we had more information on that story - in terms of what roll she would have played if she had not left MN.

I don't think she hated her back then. That all is aftershock stuff post 2016. Misdirected issues.

It wouldn't matter how she felt about Susannah anyway. Sheila E (she probably had issues with her too) was in the band. And Sheila E had issues with Cat. lol

Yeah I agree, what would that all be like, ESPECIALLY since Jerome was supposed to be there too

Jerome and Susannah were cool. I could see Cat Jerome and Susannah

OldFriends4Sale said:

violetcrush said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't think she hated her back then. That all is aftershock stuff post 2016. Misdirected issues.

It wouldn't matter how she felt about Susannah anyway. Sheila E (she probably had issues with her too) was in the band. And Sheila E had issues with Cat. lol

Yeah I agree, what would that all be like, ESPECIALLY since Jerome was supposed to be there too

Jerome and Susannah were cool. I could see Cat Jerome and Susannah

In Susannah’s first interview with Toure when she was talking about Prince first pursuing her in LA she said “it caused some ruckus - there was a woman he was seeing, who probably still hates me to this day” She then said, as if speaking to that women, “so if you’re listening to this, not only did I not know who you were, it would never have occurred to me”. * Those comments imply that Jill felt animosity toward her back then too. I would imagine Jill felt the same way about Susannah as Vanity felt about Jill - at least at the beginning of the “love triangle” on the 1999 tour. * Not sure I can picture Susannah in the SOTT mix, because the vibe was more “rough funk”. Not sure what she would have been doing while Prince was ripping off Cat’s little Tu-Tu during Hot Thing

Well of course there was a lot of ruckus from 1982-1987 Susan Moonsie Jill Vanity Susannah Sheila E and a few behind the scenes women.
.
Jill most likely felt if Susannah wasn't there, Prince would have fallen in love with her and been exclusive with her, once Vanity and Susan Moonsie were technically out of the picture. Not.

.

Maybe she didn't think Sheila was a threat.

.

Yeah animosity, I agree. It's clear she saw that Prince did not see her the same way. When she talked about how she confronted Prince about She's Always In My Hair and how he was removing her line of the story from Purple Rain etc The songs he gave to Sheila E and Sheena Easton as well as his preference for Vanity over here. Susannah was the perfect scapegoat.

.

Dance wise Susannah can hold her own. She was right there dancing the steps with Jerome during that Family show @ First Ave. I didn't see the SOTT scene as more rough or punk than the Purple Rain scene. It is all 'acting' anyway. Any variations would change what we might have seen on the SOTT shows. The whole Cat Gregory Prince love triangle thing for the SOTT movie didn't work for me anyway.

jill posted this yesterday regaring her album

[Edited 4/8/19 10:47am]

violetcrush said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

violetcrush said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Pandora 6

can you image(if Susannah stayed) Susannah Melvoin Jill Jones and Cat =Pandora 6 lol

Can't even imagine how that would have worked Jill hated Susannah

*

Although, it does seem that Prince had planned for Susannah to be part of the SOTT tour, because the peach dress worn by Cat was originally made for her. Wish we had more information on that story - in terms of what roll she would have played if she had not left MN.

I don't think she hated her back then. That all is aftershock stuff post 2016. Misdirected issues.

It wouldn't matter how she felt about Susannah anyway. Sheila E (she probably had issues with her too) was in the band. And Sheila E had issues with Cat. lol

Yeah I agree, what would that all be like, ESPECIALLY since Jerome was supposed to be there too

Jerome and Susannah were cool. I could see Cat Jerome and Susannah

In Susannah’s first interview with Toure when she was talking about Prince first pursuing her in LA she said “it caused some ruckus - there was a woman he was seeing, who probably still hates me to this day” She then said, as if speaking to that women, “so if you’re listening to this, not only did I not know who you were, it would never have occurred to me”.
*
Those comments imply that Jill felt animosity toward her back then too. I would imagine Jill felt the same way about Susannah as Vanity felt about Jill - at least at the beginning of the “love triangle” on the 1999 tour.
*
Not sure I can picture Susannah in the SOTT mix, because the vibe was more “rough funk”. Not sure what she would have been doing while Prince was ripping off Cat’s little Tu-Tu during Hot Thing

Shockadelica9 said:

violetcrush said:

In Susannah’s first interview with Toure when she was talking about Prince first pursuing her in LA she said “it caused some ruckus - there was a woman he was seeing, who probably still hates me to this day” She then said, as if speaking to that women, “so if you’re listening to this, not only did I not know who you were, it would never have occurred to me”. * Those comments imply that Jill felt animosity toward her back then too. I would imagine Jill felt the same way about Susannah as Vanity felt about Jill - at least at the beginning of the “love triangle” on the 1999 tour. * Not sure I can picture Susannah in the SOTT mix, because the vibe was more “rough funk”. Not sure what she would have been doing while Prince was ripping off Cat’s little Tu-Tu during Hot Thing

I think she was referring to Devin Devasquiz not Jill

Prince met Devin during the PR tour. He met Susannah in early 83

.
"Devin Devasquez says she had secret six month romance with Prince in 1985"

The pair dated on and off again for six months in 1985 – spending late nights together at extravagant after-concert parties and indulging in lavish early morning hotel meals.

"We used to go dancing with Sheila E. and his band, but he always told no one to talk to me," she says. "He liked me to be mysterious, and so I was."

OldFriends4Sale said:

Shockadelica9 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince met Devin during the PR tour. He met Susannah in early 83

.
"Devin Devasquez says she had secret six month romance with Prince in 1985"

The pair dated on and off again for six months in 1985 – spending late nights together at extravagant after-concert parties and indulging in lavish early morning hotel meals.

"We used to go dancing with Sheila E. and his band, but he always told no one to talk to me," she says. "He liked me to be mysterious, and so I was."

I finished her book last night and she went into detail about how p broke up with her because he was living with Susannah in france

oh ok, in her online post back in 2016 she said he broke it off with her because he had a controlling side he didn't want her to see. Then called her in 1986 and she said something about Susannah living with him and she wasn't going to be that kind of woman.

hold on let me find it...

Devasquez says she was deeply "in love" with Prince, but that they mutually ended the relationship in the summer of 1985 when he told her there was "a controlling side to him" that he never wanted her to see.

"He was respectful of me and our relationship. He also knew I was old-fashioned and I wouldn't be one of many girls," she says. "We didn't talk for months."

But only one month after Devasquez's photos appeared in the June 1985 Playboy issue, she says Prince called her from overseas while filming a music video in Nice, France.

"He phoned me from Nice and said he missed me and asked me to come see him," she says. "I said 'I thought you lived with someone?' and he said 'Well I miss you!" and I said "Well I miss you too, but it doesn't work that way for me.' "

Devasquez says the person Prince was living with at the time was Susannah Melvoin.

Shockadelica9 said:

jill posted this yesterday regaring her album

Jill Jones

April 6 at 4:12 PM ·

Every time someone posts a pic or an old video of my Paisley album it’s very bittersweet for me.
On one hand I am so appreciative and have so much gratitude for those that recognize my work however, there is a very dark side associated in my life with this album release particularly what transpired afterwards. Sometimes, not all of the time, that old wound gets resurrected. Nevertheless I will plow through those feelings like I always do. I thank u though. One day I will explain. I owe it to you and especially owe it to myself.
And to also be unable and not allowed to sell or give away a t shirt of the cover OR to post any of the music, it’s like I am really not a part of it at all. TBH Paisley Park became no different than any other record label.
And if it had not been for the power and respect of two GOATS; Jean Baptiste Mondino and Azzedine Alaia no one would have ever heard of this project. 🙏🏼

[Edited 4/8/19 10:47am]

I know she's had to process a LOT from that 1981-1991 period

How Prince treated her and stopped the release of the 2nd albums music, to the point she did not identify with/as Jill Jones of Prince's camp for a while.

OldFriends4Sale said:

coldcoffeeandcocacola said:

Because Jill is crazy crazy talented and at that time she didn’t want to be a puppet. And that didn’t go well. She’s by far his best protégée by a country mile.

how? I'm not saying she isn't. All of the proteges from the 80s are the best.

But how is she his best protege by a country mile over Sheila E or the Time? even Madhouse or Vanity 6?

I mean each were unique and expressed a different side of Uptown.

and they did it wonderfully

OldFriends4Sale said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

coldcoffeeandcocacola said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Shockadelica9 said:

jill posted this yesterday regaring her album

Jill Jones

April 6 at 4:12 PM ·

Every time someone posts a pic or an old video of my Paisley album it’s very bittersweet for me.
On one hand I am so appreciative and have so much gratitude for those that recognize my work however, there is a very dark side associated in my life with this album release particularly what transpired afterwards. Sometimes, not all of the time, that old wound gets resurrected. Nevertheless I will plow through those feelings like I always do. I thank u though. One day I will explain. I owe it to you and especially owe it to myself.
And to also be unable and not allowed to sell or give away a t shirt of the cover OR to post any of the music, it’s like I am really not a part of it at all. TBH Paisley Park became no different than any other record label.
And if it had not been for the power and respect of two GOATS; Jean Baptiste Mondino and Azzedine Alaia no one would have ever heard of this project. 🙏🏼

I know she's had to process a LOT from that 1981-1991 period

How Prince treated her and stopped the release of the 2nd albums music, to the point she did not identify with/as Jill Jones of Prince's camp for a while.

I feel that,out of all the Prince proteges,Jill is the one who got a raw deal.She was never able to succeed and thrive in that organization.For whatever reason,Prince always seemed more focused on others.

coldcoffeeandcocacola said:

coldcoffeeandcocacola said:

Jill has the best singing voice and is the most unique. She’s really distinctive and I feel like he knew she could show up the others with that. Yes vanity was sexy and a star and all the other protégées too - but Jill as well as being gorgeous was also unique in both look and sound and I think too strong of a character for him to deal with - as all his girls seemed to be less fiery and more likely to do as told from what I have read anyway or course I was not there just a little girl at that time! That’s my opinion anyway. Violet blue is my all time favourite song and a close second is a new one of hers, f*** you til you’re groovy. I just really love her sound.

If the personalities of the girls of Prince were a musical genre, Jill would be punk. She is so non conformist and at that time seemingly didn’t care what anyone else thought. and back to the initial question, In my opinion, this is why she didn’t sell as she wouldn’t conform to prince. I don’t think it’s a bad thing as she was true to herself. [Edited 4/8/19 13:20pm]

I disagree here though. Jill DID conform for Prince - numerous times throughout her years in the camp. First with agreeing to the "Marilyn Monroe" look on the 1999 tour. Next allowing herself to be a "side" girl for Prince on that tour, and then accepting the fact that her project was not a priority for Prince. She hung on until 1987, and ended up with many songs that no longer fit the trend at that time. Finally, she was promised a more significant role in the GB film, and still agreed to do the film when he greatly reduced her character's time on screen.

*

I would say, as protege's go, she was very much his "puppet on a string", and I think he knew that he could pull those strings any way he wanted or even just let them hang for long periods. She stayed the longest, and got the least out of the time she invested.

*

As she stated in a 2013 interview, "Ten Years (emphasis added). Wasted. Yeah, ten years wasted. And I don't think fondly of these ten years, the ten years that I'm thinking of... But, I got a good song out of it."

*

So, true to herself?? Nah, she just got a bum deal under the Paisley Park umbrella

OldFriends4Sale said:

violetcrush said:

I think Vanity 6 was always planned to be just three girls. The original line-up was Jamie Schoop, Susan and her Sister Loreen - prior to him meeting Vanity and Jill coming on board. I think he added Jill on stage with his band to add more spice and sexuality to their show.

I think he just added Jill to help out with the vocals while the ladies performed.

We couldn't see Jill and the Time behind that curtain.

I was actually referring to Prince adding Jill to his band on stage during the 1999 tour He had her up there in her black underwear and trench coat during the shows.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Devasquez says she was deeply "in love" with Prince, but that they mutually ended the relationship in the summer of 1985 when he told her there was "a controlling side to him" that he never wanted her to see.

"He was respectful of me and our relationship. He also knew I was old-fashioned and I wouldn't be one of many girls," she says. "We didn't talk for months."

But only one month after Devasquez's photos appeared in the June 1985 Playboy issue, she says Prince called her from overseas while filming a music video in Nice, France.

"He phoned me from Nice and said he missed me and asked me to come see him," she says. "I said 'I thought you lived with someone?' and he said 'Well I miss you!" and I said "Well I miss you too, but it doesn't work that way for me.' "

Devasquez says the person Prince was living with at the time was Susannah Melvoin.

How did this woman NOT know that she was most likely nothing more than a "side piece" for Prince?? How do you fall in love with a guy who's never around? I just don't understand how you can't figure that out....

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Devasquez says she was deeply "in love" with Prince, but that they mutually ended the relationship in the summer of 1985 when he told her there was "a controlling side to him" that he never wanted her to see.

"He was respectful of me and our relationship. He also knew I was old-fashioned and I wouldn't be one of many girls," she says. "We didn't talk for months."

But only one month after Devasquez's photos appeared in the June 1985 Playboy issue, she says Prince called her from overseas while filming a music video in Nice, France.

"He phoned me from Nice and said he missed me and asked me to come see him," she says. "I said 'I thought you lived with someone?' and he said 'Well I miss you!" and I said "Well I miss you too, but it doesn't work that way for me.' "

Devasquez says the person Prince was living with at the time was Susannah Melvoin.

How did this woman NOT know that she was most likely nothing more than a "side piece" for Prince?? How do you fall in love with a guy who's never around? I just don't understand how you can't figure that out....

I think she understood it. Which is why she removed herself from Prince sexually and got married a few years later.

I guess it can be easy to believe the the words while under Prince's spell. He clearly said things that under the right circumstances being a star as he was could enchant her for a while. As she said it was only like 6 months. She broke through the digital haze.