Never could understand why her 1987 album didn't move many copies, and the singles all bomed as well. Why? Did Prince and Paisley Park not promote it well enough?

1. she was not visually connected to Prince in 1987. I think she wanted to stand alone(not be another 'Prince girl')

a. Prince even wanted her to wear a silver heart on her wrist like those in his band, and she did not want to.

2. a lot of the album was released out of the energy of time time they were 'birthed'. G-Spot needed to be released no later than early 85. It was totally Purple Rain energy. If it was released in 1984-85 it would still have the timeless punch if relistening in 1987. Same with Mia Bocca, it was too Parade era. Should have been more of a Prince/Jill duet, But still released in 1986 even on Parade or as a B-side with video.

a. maybe songs like Violet Blue should have been lead singles.

3. She also did not have a solid solo stage charisma strong enough to go it alone. Sometimes opening for Pince(SOTT) and/or a Pink Fox/Madhouse show. Basically not being under the direct Prince umbrella in my opinion.

OldFriends4Sale said:

a lot of the album was released out of the energy of the time they were 'birthed'. G-Spot needed to be released no later than early 85. It was totally Purple Rain energy. If it was released in 1984-85 it would still have the timeless punch if relistening in 1987.

Yeah,Jill's album came out too late.She wasn't able to benefit from the Purple Rain hype of 1984/85,even though several of the songs on her album are actually from that era.

Furthermore,her album wasn't really promoted at all.I never heard "Mia Bocca" on any radio station.I think her best chance at a hit would have been "My Man".That should have been the first single,with heavy promotion and a hot video.

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

a lot of the album was released out of the energy of the time they were 'birthed'. G-Spot needed to be released no later than early 85. It was totally Purple Rain energy. If it was released in 1984-85 it would still have the timeless punch if relistening in 1987.

Yeah,Jill's album came out too late.She wasn't able to benefit from the Purple Rain hype of 1984/85,even though several of the songs on her album are actually from that era.

Furthermore,her album wasn't really promoted at all.I never heard "Mia Bocca" on any radio station.I think her best chance at a hit would have been "My Man".That should have been the first single,with heavy promotion and a hot video.

The only time I saw the (really great) video for Mia Bocca was in 1993 when MTV played a lot of Prince videos on a weekend while he was doing the Act II tour. Jill´s album totally flew under the radar and deserved better. It´s one of my favorite related artist albums.

And you are absolutely right, it should have been released much earlier. Jill is one of the most neglected and most talented associated artists.

KoolEaze said:

SoulAlive said:

Yeah,Jill's album came out too late.She wasn't able to benefit from the Purple Rain hype of 1984/85,even though several of the songs on her album are actually from that era.

Furthermore,her album wasn't really promoted at all.I never heard "Mia Bocca" on any radio station.I think her best chance at a hit would have been "My Man".That should have been the first single,with heavy promotion and a hot video.

The only time I saw the (really great) video for Mia Bocca was in 1993 when MTV played a lot of Prince videos on a weekend while he was doing the Act II tour. Jill´s album totally flew under the radar and deserved better. It´s one of my favorite related artist albums.

And you are absolutely right, it should have been released much earlier. Jill is one of the most neglected and most talented associated artists.

Actually when I look back at them in the 80s. They all were really talented PLUS had Prince's vision, the look, the style. the proteges and bandmembers in the 80s were just on a whole different level with Prince vs latter people.

.

I can't say she was more talented that Morris Day or Jesse Johnson. I wish we saw more of Morris Day on drums and Jellybean on guitar during 1981-1984. And Sheila E held her own vocally along with playing drums/percussion and sometimes bass, and being able to dance. The Family band members were very talented. not counting Apollonia, but Vanity wasn't a strong singer of course, but her charisma and stage presence, gave her an even edge with JJ's vocals. I think Vanity had a very layered way of thinking that lent for her to have some pretty interesting song/lyrics after Prince. I don't think Sheila E is a good lyricist. Morris might be able to go deeper. I think he is a sensitive soul, but we never got to see to much. But Jill Jones has the better lightly tapped skill of those two I think
.
I think JJ needed a different kind of 'band configuration'. Everyone doesn't do the frontman thing good. Jill is not a dancer at all, and that is going to affect her performances. Mariah Carey is a great vocalist, but I don't care to 'see her perform' same with Whitney. Unless they are doing certain types of music. I think she needed a set that was more '50s Hollywood' goes Uptown.

.
Madhouse, I think if Prince did not try to pull the 'I have nothing to do with it' crap Madhouse could have been on a whole different level too. But the biggest problem for Madhouse is that everyone, but Dale Alexander(drums) was in Prince's current band too.

Too good.

I think I remember Jill explained in recent interviews that (as with most PP records), WB did nothing to push it in the US, and that WB Europe tried to push it a little more to some limited results (the record and Mia Bocca reportedly did better in Europe). She did a few TV shows in Europe, but no TV appearances in the US I believe, and there was only one music video and I even wonder if it wasn't because WB Europe paid for it but I may be wrong on that one. Also, she would have needed to tour the record with a live band, live gigs are strong promotional tools, but I don't believe she never did any live gigs back then, let alone a tour, did she?

.

In the end it was the same problem evoked by Alan Leeds many times: WB had little faith in most PP records + they expected Prince's team to promote them, while Prince considered his job and the artists' was to provide the music and WB was in charge for everything else. PP artyists recieved little promotion, few media appearances and most of them were never operative as a live unit, which is complete nonsense. In that context, there was little reason for Jill's album to do better than the other records on the label, no matter how good it was.

KoolEaze said:

SoulAlive said:

Yeah,Jill's album came out too late.She wasn't able to benefit from the Purple Rain hype of 1984/85,even though several of the songs on her album are actually from that era.

Furthermore,her album wasn't really promoted at all.I never heard "Mia Bocca" on any radio station.I think her best chance at a hit would have been "My Man".That should have been the first single,with heavy promotion and a hot video.

The only time I saw the (really great) video for Mia Bocca was in 1993 when MTV played a lot of Prince videos on a weekend while he was doing the Act II tour. Jill´s album totally flew under the radar and deserved better. It´s one of my favorite related artist albums.

And you are absolutely right, it should have been released much earlier. Jill is one of the most neglected and most talented associated artists.

Ha! You were there, too? I remember that weekend, it was such a treat!!! They played so many associate artists and Prince-penned songs' videos!!! I spent the whole weekend glued to MTV

I think they did it at least twice circa 92-93. Maybe the other time was for the D&P tour I can't remember.

databank said:

Mikado said:

databank said:

I think I remember Jill explained in recent interviews that (as with most PP records), WB did nothing to push it in the US, and that WB Europe tried to push it a little more to some limited results (the record and Mia Bocca reportedly did better in Europe). She did a few TV shows in Europe, but no TV appearances in the US I believe, and there was only one music video and I even wonder if it wasn't because WB Europe paid for it but I may be wrong on that one. Also, she would have needed to tour the record with a live band, live gigs are strong promotional tools, but I don't believe she never did any live gigs back then, let alone a tour, did she?

.

In the end it was the same problem evoked by Alan Leeds many times: WB had little faith in most PP records + they expected Prince's team to promote them, while Prince considered his job and the artists' was to provide the music and WB was in charge for everything else. PP artyists recieved little promotion, few media appearances and most of them were never operative as a live unit, which is complete nonsense. In that context, there was little reason for Jill's album to do better than the other records on the label, no matter how good it was.

Sheila E. had a fair amount of success though, didn't she? It seems like it was more of a one off, but still. Did WB promote her more?

Sheila was pre-PP when WB still bothered and yeah, she was promoted for the first 2 albums. Radio airplay, TV appearances, music videos, live tours, she got the full combo. WB didn't bother with her anymore for the last 2 albums, though, but she was partly responsible because she chose to support the SOTT tour instead of promoting the 3rd album, and by 1991 WB had lost interest it appears.

databank said:

databank said:

I think I remember Jill explained in recent interviews that (as with most PP records), WB did nothing to push it in the US, and that WB Europe tried to push it a little more to some limited results (the record and Mia Bocca reportedly did better in Europe). She did a few TV shows in Europe, but no TV appearances in the US I believe, and there was only one music video and I even wonder if it wasn't because WB Europe paid for it but I may be wrong on that one. Also, she would have needed to tour the record with a live band, live gigs are strong promotional tools, but I don't believe she never did any live gigs back then, let alone a tour, did she?

.

In the end it was the same problem evoked by Alan Leeds many times: WB had little faith in most PP records + they expected Prince's team to promote them, while Prince considered his job and the artists' was to provide the music and WB was in charge for everything else. PP artyists recieved little promotion, few media appearances and most of them were never operative as a live unit, which is complete nonsense. In that context, there was little reason for Jill's album to do better than the other records on the label, no matter how good it was.

Jill did open for 'Jodi Whatley' I think. Which would be the wrong audience to open for.
I believe she did have a band. But a lot of her 'live' gigs were to a recording.

.
Prince's response to Jill though, in my mind, is partially why it might have taken so long and why it wasn't promoted well.

Mikado said:

databank said:

I think I remember Jill explained in recent interviews that (as with most PP records), WB did nothing to push it in the US, and that WB Europe tried to push it a little more to some limited results (the record and Mia Bocca reportedly did better in Europe). She did a few TV shows in Europe, but no TV appearances in the US I believe, and there was only one music video and I even wonder if it wasn't because WB Europe paid for it but I may be wrong on that one. Also, she would have needed to tour the record with a live band, live gigs are strong promotional tools, but I don't believe she never did any live gigs back then, let alone a tour, did she?

.

In the end it was the same problem evoked by Alan Leeds many times: WB had little faith in most PP records + they expected Prince's team to promote them, while Prince considered his job and the artists' was to provide the music and WB was in charge for everything else. PP artyists recieved little promotion, few media appearances and most of them were never operative as a live unit, which is complete nonsense. In that context, there was little reason for Jill's album to do better than the other records on the label, no matter how good it was.

Sheila E. had a fair amount of success though, didn't she? It seems like it was more of a one off, but still. Did WB promote her more?

If you look at all the pre 1987 proteges, they were promoted heavily.
One of the things that helped was they were tied to Prince's journey.
1. The Time, heavily promoted and good success. Some of the lack of success had to do with Prince kicking the stool from underneath them, because they were becoming successful. And if the Time(O7) stayed together for the PR era they would have taken off to another level of success

2. Vanity 6 was heavily promoted, probably moreso than the Time. They had more videos more photos for their singles, more photoshoots, more tv appearances. People might think Vanity's talent wasn't so great. But if you look at her career post Prince she was very popular. And she apeared in a lot of movies and tv roles into the early 90s.

3. Sheila E was also heavily promoted. Being a part of the PR era definately helped. Romance 1600 wasn't such a strong album, but the band was knit by 1985, the look had come together and they took off. I was sad for the change of band for the 3rd album. Sheila E(3rd album) started out strong with a ballad single that was on the charts for a while. She opened for Lionel Ritchie Outrageous tour. She had promotional work in Japan too.

Madhouse 1987 had strong potentional. But with all the band members being in Prince's band they didn't have a real chance at promotional work.

databank said:

Mikado said:

databank said: Sheila E. had a fair amount of success though, didn't she? It seems like it was more of a one off, but still. Did WB promote her more?

Sheila was pre-PP when WB still bothered and yeah, she was promoted for the first 2 albums. Radio airplay, TV appearances, music videos, live tours, she got the full combo. WB didn't bother with her anymore for the last 2 albums, though, but she was partly responsible because she chose to support the SOTT tour instead of promoting the 3rd album, and by 1991 WB had lost interest it appears.

I believe WB did back her just as strong with the 3rd album under Prince

Also her 4th album outside of Prince 'Sex Cymbal' I believe from memory she had good promotion for. I don't think it was as strong as Sheila E(3rd album) but times were changing by the 1st album outside of Prince too.

OldFriends4Sale said:

It actually seems that,in 1987,Taja Sevelle received more promotion than Jill Jones Taja's album had three singles,with a video for each one: "Love Is Contagious","Wouldn't U Love 2 Love Me" and "Popular".She even appeared for a sit-down interview on Video Soul with Donnie Simpson.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Jill did open for Jody Watley I think. Which would be the wrong audience to open for.

yeah but according to Jill,it was a disaster.She said that the audience stood still and didn't even really know who she was.With no hit singles on the radio,Jill was doomed.

OldFriends4Sale said:

I believe she did have a band. But a lot of her 'live' gigs were to a recording.

.
Prince's response to Jill though, in my mind, is partially why it might have taken so long and why it wasn't promoted well.

The original plan was for Jill to open for Prince on his U.S. SOTT tour,which would have given Jill and her album alot of exposure.Unfortunatley,he never brought the tour to America and those plans were cancelled.

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

Sheila was pre-PP when WB still bothered and yeah, she was promoted for the first 2 albums. Radio airplay, TV appearances, music videos, live tours, she got the full combo. WB didn't bother with her anymore for the last 2 albums, though, but she was partly responsible because she chose to support the SOTT tour instead of promoting the 3rd album, and by 1991 WB had lost interest it appears.

I believe WB did back her just as strong with the 3rd album under Prince

Imo,Sheila's third album is her best work.I was so angry that it didn't get the proper promotion that it deserved.It was a strange time.On the one hand,I was happy that Sheila was now playing drums for Prince.But,it set her own solo career back a little.She had just released her best album but wasn't able to go out there and fully promote it.

Sometimes I wonder if the associated artists ask themselves the same questions and wonder, in 2019, why an album did not sell very well in 1987.

Or if Dez and Gayle ever had regrets after leaving the band.

Or Brownmark?

I know people sometimes say some mean things about Jill but for some reason she is one of my favorite associated artists.

Mikado said:

Never could understand why her 1987 album didn't move many copies, and the singles all bomed as well. Why? Did Prince and Paisley Park not promote it well enough?

TrivialPursuit said:

Mikado said:

Never could understand why her 1987 album didn't move many copies, and the singles all bomed as well. Why? Did Prince and Paisley Park not promote it well enough?

Only if you're looking for it.

SoulAlive said:

SoulAlive said:

SoulAlive said:

It actually seems that,in 1987,Taja Sevelle received more promotion than Jill Jones Taja's album had three singles,with a video for each one: "Love Is Contagious","Wouldn't U Love 2 Love Me" and "Popular".She even appeared for a sit-down interview on Video Soul with Donnie Simpson.

Yes I agree, Taja had a bit more success that Jill.

Interesting is that Taja's album only had 2 Prince cuts on them.

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Jill did open for Jody Watley I think. Which would be the wrong audience to open for.

yeah but according to Jill,it was a disaster.She said that the audience stood still and didn't even really know who she was.With no hit singles on the radio,Jill was doomed.

Right, that is why it would be the wrong audience to open for.

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I believe she did have a band. But a lot of her 'live' gigs were to a recording.

.
Prince's response to Jill though, in my mind, is partially why it might have taken so long and why it wasn't promoted well.

The original plan was for Jill to open for Prince on his U.S. SOTT tour,which would have given Jill and her album alot of exposure.Unfortunatley,he never brought the tour to America and those plans were cancelled.

Oh ok I didn't know that.

Yes, she should have been in Europe starting off.

But from what I remember reading, after a Jody Whatley show, she told Prince she was done.
I think she had a problem with the image that she didn't want to be 'another Prince girl' and perform in a way she wasn't good at.

I opened for Jody Watley in LA and, seriously, the crowd just stood there whole time with their arms crossed. I was angry dancing. I was singing “G-Spot” and I was like “I'm not going to shake my ass.” I know (on past tours) I would go out in my bra and panties, but, then I put on my trench coat and I'd leave. I just threw the mike down and walked off the stage. Prince came to me and said “is that it, are you done?

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I believe WB did back her just as strong with the 3rd album under Prince

Imo,Sheila's third album is her best work.I was so angry that it didn't get the proper promotion that it deserved.It was a strange time.On the one hand,I was happy that Sheila was now playing drums for Prince.But,it set her own solo career back a little.She had just released her best album but wasn't able to go out there and fully promote it.

Yep, people didn't realize the 'Revolution' not just the band but that scene, which consisted of Sheila E the Family Jill Jones, Mazarati etc once that band was disbanded, it caused a splinter and chain effect. Much like Prince firing Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis.

That 1983-1986 group was so interconnected with family and friends that, his kingdom really did shrink considerably.

I enjoyed Sheila E in his band too, but I would have prefered her as a protege. (other topic, my Dream Factory/Camille fantasy band would consist of Bobby Z SHeila E and Juan Escovedo -percussions) Prince didn't pull in any musicians from the leftover camp for Jills band, and did not do the same with Madhouse outside of Dale Alexander.

Her 3rd album had the potential for proper promotion. I believe it would have had the momentum of her previous albums. But before it really got going Prince pulled her to be his drummer in 87. Koo Koo the video was nice but the album was done by then.

And it is said that Prince wanted her to do songs from her album on the tour, but she wouldn't. She wanted to be seen as a drummer. Which in part (she wasn't seen so much anymore) especially on the Lovesexy tour stage set up. She was jealous o Cat's stage interaction with Prince, which she had more often previously.

OldFriends4Sale said:

SoulAlive said:

Imo,Sheila's third album is her best work.I was so angry that it didn't get the proper promotion that it deserved.It was a strange time.On the one hand,I was happy that Sheila was now playing drums for Prince.But,it set her own solo career back a little.She had just released her best album but wasn't able to go out there and fully promote it.

Yep, people didn't realize the 'Revolution' not just the band but that scene, which consisted of Sheila E the Family Jill Jones, Mazarati etc once that band was disbanded, it caused a splinter and chain effect. Much like Prince firing Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis.

That 1983-1986 group was so interconnected with family and friends that, his kingdom really did shrink considerably.

I enjoyed Sheila E in his band too, but I would have prefered her as a protege. (other topic, my Dream Factory/Camille fantasy band would consist of Bobby Z SHeila E and Juan Escovedo -percussions) Prince didn't pull in any musicians from the leftover camp for Jills band, and did not do the same with Madhouse outside of Dale Alexander.

Her 3rd album had the potential for proper promotion. I believe it would have had the momentum of her previous albums. But before it really got going Prince pulled her to be his drummer in 87. Koo Koo the video was nice but the album was done by then.

And it is said that Prince wanted her to do songs from her album on the tour, but she wouldn't. She wanted to be seen as a drummer. Which in part (she wasn't seen so much anymore) especially on the Lovesexy tour stage set up. She was jealous o Cat's stage interaction with Prince, which she had more often previously.

Did Sheila ever have much actual desire to be a singer? It always seemed to me like she wanted to focus on her real gift, which was being on drums.