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Reply #210 posted 01/06/19 11:15am

muchtoofast

avatar

violetcrush said:


I think this is a good article - written March 3rd, 1987. This supports Susannah's discussion about Prince chasing her out to LA, and trying to get her to move back to MN. Some of the writing is for dramatic affect, but the jist of it is there....



Those were the good ole days of pure BS journalism weren’t they?
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Reply #211 posted 01/06/19 11:19am

violetcrush

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Right, because that is how he was with EVERYONE, not just with her, or other women. He iced out everyone around him and would not speak to them at certain times. Did you watch the Mke Judge show about The Time? They actually talked about this and used the animated characters to show how Prince would be laughing with the band one minute, and then suddenly transform into an icy stare and would not talk. That was Prince. He could not let his guard down and communicate directly, so he put it all in his songs. She stated this during the interview. Lisa Coleman stated they never knew which "Prince" they were going to get when he arrived at rehearsal. She said sometimes he would confide in her and want to talk like they were close friends, and the next day he would treat her like an employee and would not speak.

*

He said the things he could not say in his songs. Even Prince had stated, "If you want to know about me and my life listen to my music".

Lala Escarzega said the same in one of her posts about him she made after he passed. She said that he could go long periods where he would ignore you and they were in one of those times before he passed. She wrote that she became very ill in January of 2016 and he called to see about her and until then they hadn't spoken for months. It seems he would get miffed at someone and respond by shutting them out or perhaps he did it when he felt he was becoming to vulnerable with them.

[Edited 1/6/19 11:06am]

Yes, very common behavior by him with friends, girlfriends, associates, wives, etc. He was complicated, and I think he knew that about himself too.

*

It brings to mind Susan Roger's discussion about recording the song Wally with him. She stated while he was playing the piano he said, "did you know that the word malady is French for sickness? It sounds a lot like the word melody" Then she said he started blending malady and melody together. "Oh ma la de da da...". Very sad.

*

Seems he knew his issues, but may not have had a way to change or improve them.

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Reply #212 posted 01/06/19 11:22am

violetcrush

muchtoofast said:

violetcrush said:

I think this is a good article - written March 3rd, 1987. This supports Susannah's discussion about Prince chasing her out to LA, and trying to get her to move back to MN. Some of the writing is for dramatic affect, but the jist of it is there....

Those were the good ole days of pure BS journalism weren’t they?

Actually, back then there would have been more truth to the stories, as journalists actually worked to find sources for the information. Do I think that this is fully accurate on the details? No. However, I have no doubt that the jist of it is correct. Susannah confirmed that during her interview.

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Reply #213 posted 01/06/19 11:23am

muchtoofast

avatar

violetcrush said:



muchtoofast said:


violetcrush said:



Nah, I don't think it was any type of act. I don't think she was skilled enough to pull that off as a fake persona.



Talk about pissing all over people, just what is your problem? You haven’t even read the damn book but you act like you know everything about it? Thats foolish. I don’t care who his greatest love was and I’m not trying to pit one against the other because we will never know. I’m just not believing great love is cheating every chance you get, or caring zero for your beloved’s feelings.


I'm in no way trying to piss on Devin D. This thread is NOT about her, but you clearly seem to want it to be. If you are so impressed with her, and think she was so important to Prince, then by all means start a new thread about her.


*


I never claimed to know everything about her or her time with Prince. However, I am entitled to an opinion based on what I actually have seen and read, as well as, looking at the big picture in terms of the amount of actual time spent with him.



He was seeing Devin during his relationship with Susannah, that’s why I brought her up. In the interview Susannah states Prince NEVER proposed to her.
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Reply #214 posted 01/06/19 11:28am

luvgirl

violetcrush said:



luvgirl said:


A big thank you to Susannah for sharing some thought provoking info on her relationship with Prince. We've heard some of it before but It was an interesting interview nonetheless. The beginning was a little confusing when she was trying to place the dates. It seemed to overwhelme her as her memory failed. Some of her dates didn't add up as they contradicted factual events and situations, and things she'd said in the past. It's very easy to understand though. It was such a long time ago. You'd have to be a genius to remember the details from month to month in the 1980's lol. * I'm usually not a fan of Toure's style of interview, nor am I a fan of his book. I do agree with those who thought he was pampering. However, I think the fact that he and Susannah are friends had some beneficial aspect in this particular interview, as it provided a comfort level of protection to share some of the difficult antidotes she shared. It was obvious that revealing Prince was the one who asked her to move out was a very hard thing for her to share. I commend her for It. It seemed a very painful memory. * Subsequently, with that request for her to move out of his house, Prince was deliberately taking steps to end the relationship as they knew it. Especially since he followed up the action by seeing other women without even trying to be discreet about it any longer - taking a turn for the worst. I recall the dynamics were elaborated on in DMSR and Possessed. This also brings to mind what her friend Karen Kittenger's stated. She is quoted that Prince was also the one to call off the engagement over the phone. Asking her to leave and calling off the engagement was absolute proof that Prince was done with being in a serious relationship with her and only wanted a casual affair at that point. It must have been very heartbreaking and confusing for Susannah. I understand why it was stated that her family was worried about her mental state at the time. As a woman it's hard not to feel the sadness and indignity on her behalf. * It's obvious Prince was moving on, and Susannah was smart enough to make an effort in moving on herself when she finally moved away from her apartment. I don't think Prince put the effort needed into saving the relationship with her. He was content at that point to go on casually for years. I'm certain that mending the relationship could have been easily rectified by living together again or finally committing to the proposal, but it's also apparent that the dynamics surrounding the engagement wasn't as serious as imagined. I was surprised to hear that they never spoke of getting married ever again after the ring and the initial proposal. It's interesting to me that he handled the two proposals he made from that time in such a nonchalant manner. * It's no doubt Prince was a hard man to love, but as Susannah said, she was living in the moment. I suspect many of his women lived in the moment with him. There was no other way. I liked that she said he wasn't the love of her life, but the lover of her life... And I respect this comment by her from a prior interview. "Looking back, I don't do much of that anymore. But, if I do look back at all, I'm just glad I'm not there anymore. I'm glad I'm where I'm at. Life goes on. I've got the best two babies in the world."


I disagree with a chunk of your assessment here. Yes, Prince did tell her he was not ready to live with her, and she moved into the apartment nearby. Yes, Prince was fooling around with other women off and on during their relationship - as he did in all of his relationships. However, I think it speaks volumes that after she made her decision to leave MN and end the relationship he literally moved out to LA for 2-3 months to attempt to get her to go back to MN with him. He obviously did not want her to leave. So, he clearly wasn't "moving on" from her as you stated. I think the songs Come Home *("how did it come to this, you living in your world and me dying in mine..."), Wally, FIML, etc..more clearly explain how he was feeling at that time.


*


You describe his proposal and getting engaged to her as "nonchalant". I disagree completely - especially when you consider a man like Prince. He sent her the flowers with the "word play" cards (Yes, No, Maybe..) which she discussed in another interview, he flew her to NYC, arranged for the private ring selection, bought her a SIX carat ring, flew her to Paris/Nice. Yes, she left for awhile so Prince could be "Prince" running around with Jerome. However, I don't recall reading or hearing about any similar effort he made with any other woman in the 80's. So, I would say it was a pretty big deal.


*


The fact that he was flying her over to be with him during the SOTT tour speaks volumes as well. I think by that point things were more on her terms. He wrote the song The Sex Of It and performed it only once - while she was attending his show Sept '87 in MN ("I gave you a diamond ring my friend, but that didn't get you off, French cologne $100 bucks an ounce, but all you did was cough...I couldn't love you any more I guess I'll hate you next....I got a spooky feeling she only wants me for the sex...") Susannah was also on stage with him during the LoveSexy show Sept '88 in MN and attended the tent party at PP. As she said, this went on for years and years. Her description of him calling her and asking to see her in '92/93 is also very telling, especially when he said, "I'm going to come back for you". I believe she was in a relationship with John Cusack during this time. She posted the card he sent to her in the mid 90's about the ballet he was writing..."I love U, please write". Sorry, but there are many many pieces of the puzzle that reveal he was not "moving on" from her. It seems SHE was moving on, and he was still seeking her out.


*


The article/interview you quoted from 2013 where Susannah stated she's glad she's not there anymore and she's got the best two babies.." Well, yeah I would imagine she was/is content to live the life she has now with her kids. I think it's also important to mention that during this time she and Prince were not on good terms, because of the fDeluxe record. She had also begun contributing to some of the Biographies - Alan Light's and Matt Thorne's - which I'm sure did not sit well with Prince. She had never discussed her time with him prior to this. In an interview with Rockerzine magazine, also in 2013, she stated Prince would not speak to her after their phone conversation. He began speaking to Paul Peterson, whom he had not communicated with in many years. So, I'm sure that was hurtful to her. That was Prince, and this happened with many of his associates through the years.


*


Susannah stated that Prince was the greatest "Lover" of her life. However, that does not mean that SHE was not the greatest "Love" of Prince's life. I'm not declaring that she was that for Prince, but I do know that he wrote a hell of a lot of deep, emotional and loving songs for/about her.




In regards to my post. I'm not gonna get into a nasty debate trying to tear Susannah and Prince's relationship down. You have your speculations and opinions, and I have mine. That's all they are for both of us, while Prince's actions spoke louder than words.

In regards to the songs, I've never heard that Prince told Susannah that a particular song was about her apart from FIML and since I've never heard it myself, I'm not confident enough with the folk lore of Adore that circulated on the Org. In one of her other interviews, Susannah stated that Prince never told her that any songs were about her. Wendy expressed the same sentiments. She said the words never came out of his mouth. Prince Associates and Orgers alike only SPECULATE on who they think a song is about. More often than not they are wrong. As Prince himself has stated. Susannah said that she just knew darn well when a song was about her. Which, as it turned out recently with Strange Relationship, her perceptions wasn't always correct. Having said that, I understand the reason why she would think a few of them was in reference to their relationship with certain specificity, but not all the songs said to be about her have significant identity to her.

Please tell me the specificity of NC2U? Susan Rogers said NC2U was about Susan Scoponi and specified the lyrics in association. Susan Rogers was actually there the day that Prince wrote the song. She remembered being in the other room. She said Prince and Susannah were still an item at that time and Prince was not living with her. Read the lyrics. With that scenario, how could the lyrics be in connection to their situation? Those lyrics are intended for someone he was no longer in a relationship with... Someone that he lived with in the past. Keep in mind.... WRITTEN on the day Susan Rogers was in attendance to witness all. The situation and scenario Susannah explained in regards to Empty Room did not seem befitting to the lyrics either in my opinion.
[Edited 1/6/19 12:08pm]
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Reply #215 posted 01/06/19 11:32am

violetcrush

muchtoofast said:

violetcrush said:

I'm in no way trying to piss on Devin D. This thread is NOT about her, but you clearly seem to want it to be. If you are so impressed with her, and think she was so important to Prince, then by all means start a new thread about her.

*

I never claimed to know everything about her or her time with Prince. However, I am entitled to an opinion based on what I actually have seen and read, as well as, looking at the big picture in terms of the amount of actual time spent with him.

He was seeing Devin during his relationship with Susannah, that’s why I brought her up. In the interview Susannah states Prince NEVER proposed to her.

Completely not true. Did you listen to the entire interview?? While they were staying in Paris he woke her up in the middle of the night, and told her he needed to talk to her. They went out on the balcony, and he said, "I don't want you to be the lead in the film. I want you to be my wife". She stated this in both interviews with Toure. She said she didn't expect that her proposal would be done in that way. He gave her the ring in NY. He asked her to be his wife in Paris.

*

Prince was fooling around with more than Devin during this time - she was just one of the "side girls". Again, Prince was never monogamous. He wanted to have his cake (vanilla with chocolate frosting) and eat it too. He expected that Susannah would be faithful to him while he was whoring around. Well, I don't think it went exactly as he had planned - based on songs like Empy Room, Go, Sexual Suicide, Anotherloverholeinyouhead, etc. I think she figured out how to push his buttons, and give him some things to think about.

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Reply #216 posted 01/06/19 11:36am

pinkcashmere23

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

Lala Escarzega said the same in one of her posts about him she made after he passed. She said that he could go long periods where he would ignore you and they were in one of those times before he passed. She wrote that she became very ill in January of 2016 and he called to see about her and until then they hadn't spoken for months. It seems he would get miffed at someone and respond by shutting them out or perhaps he did it when he felt he was becoming to vulnerable with them.

[Edited 1/6/19 11:06am]

Yes, very common behavior by him with friends, girlfriends, associates, wives, etc. He was complicated, and I think he knew that about himself too.

*

It brings to mind Susan Roger's discussion about recording the song Wally with him. She stated while he was playing the piano he said, "did you know that the word malady is French for sickness? It sounds a lot like the word melody" Then she said he started blending malady and melody together. "Oh ma la de da da...". Very sad.

*

Seems he knew his issues, but may not have had a way to change or improve them.

Yes,what he said about "Wally"was mentioned in DMSR by Per Nilsen. I thought he might have also been making a connection with the words "melody"and "malady"because he was associating the words with being love sick. I'm not sure that he was capable of change then. It seemed as he grew older he was making strides and was seeking guidance through The Bible and various spiritual books. I wonder if he ever sought help through therapy again. He said on Oprah that he had taken someone through thereapy and it was then discovered that he had at least two different people living inside of him. I thought that was interesting and it sounds as if he was taking part in the therapy sessions himself.

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Reply #217 posted 01/06/19 11:46am

muchtoofast

avatar

violetcrush said:



muchtoofast said:


violetcrush said:



I'm in no way trying to piss on Devin D. This thread is NOT about her, but you clearly seem to want it to be. If you are so impressed with her, and think she was so important to Prince, then by all means start a new thread about her.


*


I never claimed to know everything about her or her time with Prince. However, I am entitled to an opinion based on what I actually have seen and read, as well as, looking at the big picture in terms of the amount of actual time spent with him.



He was seeing Devin during his relationship with Susannah, that’s why I brought her up. In the interview Susannah states Prince NEVER proposed to her.


Completely not true. Did you listen to the entire interview?? While they were staying in Paris he woke her up in the middle of the night, and told her he needed to talk to her. They went out on the balcony, and he said, "I don't want you to be the lead in the film. I want you to be my wife". She stated this in both interviews with Toure. She said she didn't expect that her proposal would be done in that way. He gave her the ring in NY. He asked her to be his wife in Paris.


*


Prince was fooling around with more than Devin during this time - she was just one of the "side girls". Again, Prince was never monogamous. He wanted to have his cake (vanilla with chocolate frosting) and eat it too. He expected that Susannah would be faithful to him while he was whoring around. Well, I don't think it went exactly as he had planned - based on songs like Empy Room, Go, Sexual Suicide, Anotherloverholeinyouhead, etc. I think she figured out how to push his buttons, and give him some things to think about.


After all that she dumped him, what a shame. Wait, wut?
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Reply #218 posted 01/06/19 12:12pm

violetcrush

luvgirl said:

violetcrush said:

I disagree with a chunk of your assessment here. Yes, Prince did tell her he was not ready to live with her, and she moved into the apartment nearby. Yes, Prince was fooling around with other women off and on during their relationship - as he did in all of his relationships. However, I think it speaks volumes that after she made her decision to leave MN and end the relationship he literally moved out to LA for 2-3 months to attempt to get her to go back to MN with him. He obviously did not want her to leave. So, he clearly wasn't "moving on" from her as you stated. I think the songs Come Home *("how did it come to this, you living in your world and me dying in mine..."), Wally, FIML, etc..more clearly explain how he was feeling at that time.

*

You describe his proposal and getting engaged to her as "nonchalant". I disagree completely - especially when you consider a man like Prince. He sent her the flowers with the "word play" cards (Yes, No, Maybe..) which she discussed in another interview, he flew her to NYC, arranged for the private ring selection, bought her a SIX carat ring, flew her to Paris/Nice. Yes, she left for awhile so Prince could be "Prince" running around with Jerome. However, I don't recall reading or hearing about any similar effort he made with any other woman in the 80's. So, I would say it was a pretty big deal.

*

The fact that he was flying her over to be with him during the SOTT tour speaks volumes as well. I think by that point things were more on her terms. He wrote the song The Sex Of It and performed it only once - while she was attending his show Sept '87 in MN ("I gave you a diamond ring my friend, but that didn't get you off, French cologne $100 bucks an ounce, but all you did was cough...I couldn't love you any more I guess I'll hate you next....I got a spooky feeling she only wants me for the sex...") Susannah was also on stage with him during the LoveSexy show Sept '88 in MN and attended the tent party at PP. As she said, this went on for years and years. Her description of him calling her and asking to see her in '92/93 is also very telling, especially when he said, "I'm going to come back for you". I believe she was in a relationship with John Cusack during this time. She posted the card he sent to her in the mid 90's about the ballet he was writing..."I love U, please write". Sorry, but there are many many pieces of the puzzle that reveal he was not "moving on" from her. It seems SHE was moving on, and he was still seeking her out.

*

The article/interview you quoted from 2013 where Susannah stated she's glad she's not there anymore and she's got the best two babies.." Well, yeah I would imagine she was/is content to live the life she has now with her kids. I think it's also important to mention that during this time she and Prince were not on good terms, because of the fDeluxe record. She had also begun contributing to some of the Biographies - Alan Light's and Matt Thorne's - which I'm sure did not sit well with Prince. She had never discussed her time with him prior to this. In an interview with Rockerzine magazine, also in 2013, she stated Prince would not speak to her after their phone conversation. He began speaking to Paul Peterson, whom he had not communicated with in many years. So, I'm sure that was hurtful to her. That was Prince, and this happened with many of his associates through the years.

*

Susannah stated that Prince was the greatest "Lover" of her life. However, that does not mean that SHE was not the greatest "Love" of Prince's life. I'm not declaring that she was that for Prince, but I do know that he wrote a hell of a lot of deep, emotional and loving songs for/about her.

In regards to my post. I'm not gonna get into a nasty debate trying to tear Susannah and Prince's relationship down. You have your speculations and opinions, and I have mine. That's all they are for both of us, while Prince's actions spoke louder than words. In regards to the songs, I've never heard that Prince told Susannah that a particular song was about her apart from FIML and since I've never heard it myself, I'm not confident enough with the folk lore of Adore that circulated on the Org. In one of her other interviews, Susannah stated that Prince never told her that any songs were about her. Wendy expressed the same sentiments. She said the words never came out of his mouth. Prince Associates and Orgers alike only SPECULATE on who they think a song is about. More often than not they are wrong. As Prince himself has stated. Susannah said that she just knew darn well when a song was a bout her. Which, as it turned out recently, her perceptions wasn't always correct. Having said that, I understand the reason why she would think a few of them was in reference to their relationship with certain specificity, but not all the songs said to be about her have significant identity to her. Please tell me the specificity of NC2U? Susan Rogers said NC2U was about Susan Scoponi and specified the lyrics in association. Susan Rogers was actually there the day that Prince wrote the song. She remembered being in the other room. She said Prince and Susannah were still an item at that time and Prince was not living with her. Read the lyrics. With that scenario, how could the lyrics be in connection to their situation? Those lyrics are intended for someone he was no longer in a relationship with... That he lived with. Keep in mind.... WRITTEN on the day Susan Rogers was in attendance to witness all. The situation she explained in regards to Empty Room did not seem befitting to the lyrics either in my opinion. [Edited 1/6/19 11:31am]

Actually, Prince's songs spoke even louder than his actions. Regarding the songs for Susannah, I believe what she said was " he would play me the song, and I knew perfectly well that it was about me". So, while he did not sit there and say, "hey Susannah, this song is about you", he would call her in and play it for her. She also stated a few times during the interview that Prince recorded based on what was happening to him in that moment.

*
However, with the song Forever In My Life, Prince specifically stated that song was inspired by/written for Susannah. Here is the text from that interview July 1997:

*

AOL live chat
AOL members



TheArtist: the artist is here...where r u?
TheArtist: prince is dead
OnlineHost: Welcome prince!
OnlineHost: We are so happy to “see” you biggrin
TheArtist: thank u all
OnlineHost: Well, we are a little behind, so let’s get started....
OnlineHost: OK?
TheArtist: ok
OnlineHost: Your first question of the evening:

Several questions down....
Question: What was your inspiration for the song Forever In My Life?
TheArtist: susannah
TheArtist: she knows

Regarding NC2U.....again, Susannah confirmed during her first talk with Toure that she and Prince began their full on relationship during the filming of PR. Then it stopped for awhile. Susan Rogers also specifically stated that Prince had a lot of beautiful girls around him, but Susannah was becoming more important to him at that time. She stated they were deciding whether or not they were going to be a couple. So, it is very feasible that Prince wrote the song during their first "breakup". Both of these things were happening at the same time - the housekeeper left to go to her Father's funeral, and Susannah most likely was back in LA. Again, the song is an intense love song. It is not written about a platonic relationship with a housekeeper. I know the lyrics of the song. The words "I know that livin' with me baby was sometimes hard..." does not have to mean cohabitating. I mean, he's not going to sing "I know that being in a relationship with me was sometimes hard", or "I know that dating me...". The phrase is a catchier way to say "being with". Prince was rarely "literal" when it came to his lyrics.

*

It has been stated here on the Org, which I think is a pretty reliable source in terms of concert information, that during the ONA tour, at the souncheck for the NPGMC members in Columbus Ohio, one of the fans asked Prince who Adore was written for/about. Prince responded, "Susannah".

*

NPGMC-member preshow / soundcheck The exact setlist and sequence of this preshow are uncertain.

Songs Additional Songs Remarks / Personnel Peach She Loves Me 4 Me (instrumental) The Ride When You Were Mine w/ NPGMC members guesting on various instruments Dolphin Prince talks to NPGMC members

*

*

Bottom line is this - there is enough "evidence" (songs, Susannah's statements, associates' statements, Prince's confirmation of some songs) to know that she was very important to him, and he had deep feelings for her. Even Wendy stated that the relationship was impossible but their love and pain inspired some amazing music.

[Edited 1/6/19 12:25pm]

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Reply #219 posted 01/06/19 12:15pm

Latin

Hi PennyPurple.

Was the excerpt you cited below directly from Alex's book?

PennyPurple said:




You forgot when she went to France with him and he made her turn around to go home. (UTCM) Funny how these things work, when 1 or 2 people try to change the narrative.


According to Alex Hahn's book:



Prince was looking for locations to film another movie, and he went to Paris. He decided to shoot Under the Cherry Moon, there. Prince wanted the movie in black and white, he and WB came to an agreement and filmed it in color but transferred it to black & white. He hired Jerome Benton, he wanted Susannah to play the lead but the studio didn't like that and hired Kristin Scott Thomas.



.



Prince and his entourage flew to Paris and were in a fine mood. Susannah M was with him and apparently wearing an engagement ring. Prince gave Susannah a ring and she misinterpreted it as a marriage proposal. When they got to the hotel in France, Prince instructed Alan Leeds to escort Susannah back to the States, to MN, he didn't want her going to LA to cry on Wendy and Lisa's shoulder. With Susannah gone, France became P's playground with women and he would also have SheilaE and Jill Jones visit him.






http://prince.org/msg/7/441586?&pg=23

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Reply #220 posted 01/06/19 12:21pm

violetcrush

muchtoofast said:

violetcrush said:

Completely not true. Did you listen to the entire interview?? While they were staying in Paris he woke her up in the middle of the night, and told her he needed to talk to her. They went out on the balcony, and he said, "I don't want you to be the lead in the film. I want you to be my wife". She stated this in both interviews with Toure. She said she didn't expect that her proposal would be done in that way. He gave her the ring in NY. He asked her to be his wife in Paris.

*

Prince was fooling around with more than Devin during this time - she was just one of the "side girls". Again, Prince was never monogamous. He wanted to have his cake (vanilla with chocolate frosting) and eat it too. He expected that Susannah would be faithful to him while he was whoring around. Well, I don't think it went exactly as he had planned - based on songs like Empy Room, Go, Sexual Suicide, Anotherloverholeinyouhead, etc. I think she figured out how to push his buttons, and give him some things to think about.

After all that she dumped him, what a shame. Wait, wut?

The songs Empty Room, Go and Sexual Suicide were recorded Summer of 1985. She didn't dump him in 1985, however they were off and on many times from '83-?. She left MN permanently in the Fall of 1986. She was still recording with Prince in LA. Her last recording with him was Play In The Sunshine, Nov 22nd 1986. He had moved to a rental in LA for several months after she left MN. Per princevault.com:

Play In The Sunshine is the second track on the first disc of Prince's ninth album Sign O' The Times. A live version was also included in the concert movie Sign O' The Times.

Basic tracking took place on 22 November 1986 at Sunset Sound in Hollywood, California during Susannah Melvoin's final recording session withPrince (on the same day as adding overdubs to It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night) just eight days before completion of the Crystal Ball album. The track was initially included as the second track on the first disc on the 30 November 1986 configuration of Crystal Ball, which was eventually pared down and became Sign O' The Times. The introductory piece acting as a segue from Sign O' The Times to Play In The Sunshine on Sign O' The Times was recorded on 15 January 1987 at Sunset Sound.

*

She stated in the interview that she continued to see him for several years after this time. He would fly her to be with him. I believe she dated Seal from 1990-91, and then began a serious relationship with John Cusack from 1991 to 1995. Although, it would appear that Prince was still wanting to see her, per her information about Prince asking to come over in 1993.

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Reply #221 posted 01/06/19 12:34pm

violetcrush

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, very common behavior by him with friends, girlfriends, associates, wives, etc. He was complicated, and I think he knew that about himself too.

*

It brings to mind Susan Roger's discussion about recording the song Wally with him. She stated while he was playing the piano he said, "did you know that the word malady is French for sickness? It sounds a lot like the word melody" Then she said he started blending malady and melody together. "Oh ma la de da da...". Very sad.

*

Seems he knew his issues, but may not have had a way to change or improve them.

Yes,what he said about "Wally"was mentioned in DMSR by Per Nilsen. I thought he might have also been making a connection with the words "melody"and "malady"because he was associating the words with being love sick. I'm not sure that he was capable of change then. It seemed as he grew older he was making strides and was seeking guidance through The Bible and various spiritual books. I wonder if he ever sought help through therapy again. He said on Oprah that he had taken someone through thereapy and it was then discovered that he had at least two different people living inside of him. I thought that was interesting and it sounds as if he was taking part in the therapy sessions himself.

Yes, he was still so young in 1986 - just 28 yrs old, and still at the top of his game as a huge rock star. I imagine his conflict with temptation and love was really tough at this time. His songs Temptation and Condition Of The Heart speak to that. But, as Wendy said, it inspired some really great music.

*

As they say, with age comes wisdom, and I agree that as he matured he saw the "bigger picture" with life - you see that in his songs Reflection and then Breakdown. Seems he always struggled with temptation with regard to his relationships though.

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Reply #222 posted 01/06/19 12:37pm

PennyPurple

avatar

violetcrush said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Nothing Compares 2 U was about P's housekeeper, Sandy.

Susannah sings background vocals on Ps recorded version.

Yeah, okay right. NC2U is a straight up love song. Is NOT inspired by a platonic relationship with his housekeeper! So, "I can put my arms around every girl I see, but they'd only remind me of you" is describing his feelings for his housekeeper??? And, "it's been 7 hours and 15 days since you took your love away" is about his housekeeper??

*

Susannah has recently stated that she began a heavy and intimate relationship with Prince during the filming of PR, and then it stopped for awhile. I believe at some point prior to the film being released she went back to LA. In Alan Light's book she stated "well we lost touch for awhile while he was being a rock star - petulant and needy, getting any girl that he wanted".

*

So, it is possible that when he first wrote/recorded NC2U she had been back in LA.

Yes it was about his housekeeper.

You don't believe anything anyone tries to tell you, yet you expect us to believe your every word.

Just do some more research or at least do the correct research.

A MASK ISN'T TOO MUCH TO ASK!!
JJPOPPYSBOMBSQUAD #OPINIONSMATTER
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Reply #223 posted 01/06/19 12:42pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Latin said:

Hi PennyPurple. Was the excerpt you cited below directly from Alex's book? PennyPurple said:

Yes, it was when we did the book club on it. But the org rules prevented us from quoting word for word in the book, but on the link I gave it showed the page numbers in the book where this was from.

A MASK ISN'T TOO MUCH TO ASK!!
JJPOPPYSBOMBSQUAD #OPINIONSMATTER
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Reply #224 posted 01/06/19 12:47pm

pinkcashmere23

violetcrush said:

luvgirl said:

violetcrush said: In regards to my post. I'm not gonna get into a nasty debate trying to tear Susannah and Prince's relationship down. You have your speculations and opinions, and I have mine. That's all they are for both of us, while Prince's actions spoke louder than words. In regards to the songs, I've never heard that Prince told Susannah that a particular song was about her apart from FIML and since I've never heard it myself, I'm not confident enough with the folk lore of Adore that circulated on the Org. In one of her other interviews, Susannah stated that Prince never told her that any songs were about her. Wendy expressed the same sentiments. She said the words never came out of his mouth. Prince Associates and Orgers alike only SPECULATE on who they think a song is about. More often than not they are wrong. As Prince himself has stated. Susannah said that she just knew darn well when a song was a bout her. Which, as it turned out recently, her perceptions wasn't always correct. Having said that, I understand the reason why she would think a few of them was in reference to their relationship with certain specificity, but not all the songs said to be about her have significant identity to her. Please tell me the specificity of NC2U? Susan Rogers said NC2U was about Susan Scoponi and specified the lyrics in association. Susan Rogers was actually there the day that Prince wrote the song. She remembered being in the other room. She said Prince and Susannah were still an item at that time and Prince was not living with her. Read the lyrics. With that scenario, how could the lyrics be in connection to their situation? Those lyrics are intended for someone he was no longer in a relationship with... That he lived with. Keep in mind.... WRITTEN on the day Susan Rogers was in attendance to witness all. The situation she explained in regards to Empty Room did not seem befitting to the lyrics either in my opinion. [Edited 1/6/19 11:31am]

Actually, Prince's songs spoke even louder than his actions. Regarding the songs for Susannah, I believe what she said was " he would play me the song, and I knew perfectly well that it was about me". So, while he did not sit there and say, "hey Susannah, this song is about you", he would call her in and play it for her. She also stated a few times during the interview that Prince recorded based on what was happening to him in that moment.

*
However, with the song Forever In My Life, Prince specifically stated that song was inspired by/written for Susannah. Here is the text from that interview July 1997:

*

AOL live chat
AOL members



TheArtist: the artist is here...where r u?
TheArtist: prince is dead
OnlineHost: Welcome prince!
OnlineHost: We are so happy to “see” you biggrin
TheArtist: thank u all
OnlineHost: Well, we are a little behind, so let’s get started....
OnlineHost: OK?
TheArtist: ok
OnlineHost: Your first question of the evening:

Several questions down....
Question: What was your inspiration for the song Forever In My Life?
TheArtist: susannah
TheArtist: she knows

Regarding NC2U.....again, Susannah confirmed during her first talk with Toure that she and Prince began their full on relationship during the filming of PR. Then it stopped for awhile. Susan Rogers also specifically stated that Prince had a lot of beautiful girls around him, but Susannah was becoming more important to him at that time. She stated they were deciding whether or not they were going to be a couple. So, it is very feasible that Prince wrote the song during their first "breakup". Both of these things were happening at the same time - the housekeeper left to go to her Father's funeral, and Susannah most likely was back in LA. Again, the song is an intense love song. It is not written about a platonic relationship with a housekeeper. I know the lyrics of the song. The words "I know that livin' with me baby was sometimes hard..." does not have to mean cohabitating. I mean, he's not going to sing "I know that being in a relationship with me was sometimes hard", or "I know that dating me...". The phrase is a catchier way to say "being with". Prince was rarely "literal" when it came to his lyrics.

*

It has been stated here on the Org, which I think is a pretty reliable source in terms of concert information, that during the ONA tour, at the souncheck for the NPGMC members in Columbus Ohio, one of the fans asked Prince who Adore was written for/about. Prince responded, "Susannah".

*

NPGMC-member preshow / soundcheck The exact setlist and sequence of this preshow are uncertain.

Songs Additional Songs Remarks / Personnel Peach She Loves Me 4 Me (instrumental) The Ride When You Were Mine w/ NPGMC members guesting on various instruments Dolphin Prince talks to NPGMC members

*

*

Bottom line is this - there is enough "evidence" (songs, Susannah's statements, associates' statements, Prince's confirmation of some songs) to know that she was very important to him, and he had deep feelings for her. Even Wendy stated that the relationship was impossible but their love and pain inspired some amazing music.

[Edited 1/6/19 12:25pm]

I remember reading that transcript several years back. He was very open and just put it out there. Surprising to me that he typed that for all to read when he was married at the time.

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Reply #225 posted 01/06/19 12:52pm

pinkcashmere23

violetcrush said:

muchtoofast said:

violetcrush said: After all that she dumped him, what a shame. Wait, wut?

The songs Empty Room, Go and Sexual Suicide were recorded Summer of 1985. She didn't dump him in 1985, however they were off and on many times from '83-?. She left MN permanently in the Fall of 1986. She was still recording with Prince in LA. Her last recording with him was Play In The Sunshine, Nov 22nd 1986. He had moved to a rental in LA for several months after she left MN. Per princevault.com:

Play In The Sunshine is the second track on the first disc of Prince's ninth album Sign O' The Times. A live version was also included in the concert movie Sign O' The Times.

Basic tracking took place on 22 November 1986 at Sunset Sound in Hollywood, California during Susannah Melvoin's final recording session withPrince (on the same day as adding overdubs to It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night) just eight days before completion of the Crystal Ball album. The track was initially included as the second track on the first disc on the 30 November 1986 configuration of Crystal Ball, which was eventually pared down and became Sign O' The Times. The introductory piece acting as a segue from Sign O' The Times to Play In The Sunshine on Sign O' The Times was recorded on 15 January 1987 at Sunset Sound.

*

She stated in the interview that she continued to see him for several years after this time. He would fly her to be with him. I believe she dated Seal from 1990-91, and then began a serious relationship with John Cusack from 1991 to 1995. Although, it would appear that Prince was still wanting to see her, per her information about Prince asking to come over in 1993.

I didn't know that she dated Seal. I knew that she sung background vocals on some of his albums with Wendy and Lisa.

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Reply #226 posted 01/06/19 12:59pm

Latin

OK. Thanks for sharing.

Latin said:

Hi PennyPurple.

Was the excerpt you cited below directly from Alex's book?

PennyPurple said:




You forgot when she went to France with him and he made her turn around to go home. (UTCM) Funny how these things work, when 1 or 2 people try to change the narrative.


According to Alex Hahn's book:



Prince was looking for locations to film another movie, and he went to Paris. He decided to shoot Under the Cherry Moon, there. Prince wanted the movie in black and white, he and WB came to an agreement and filmed it in color but transferred it to black & white. He hired Jerome Benton, he wanted Susannah to play the lead but the studio didn't like that and hired Kristin Scott Thomas.



.



Prince and his entourage flew to Paris and were in a fine mood. Susannah M was with him and apparently wearing an engagement ring. Prince gave Susannah a ring and she misinterpreted it as a marriage proposal. When they got to the hotel in France, Prince instructed Alan Leeds to escort Susannah back to the States, to MN, he didn't want her going to LA to cry on Wendy and Lisa's shoulder. With Susannah gone, France became P's playground with women and he would also have SheilaE and Jill Jones visit him.






http://prince.org/msg/7/441586?&pg=23

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Reply #227 posted 01/06/19 1:00pm

bsprout

pinkcashmere23 said:



bsprout said:


pinkcashmere23 said:


Yes,I was referring to 'Empty Room." The performance in Zurich was something special and it did seem he was relating to it personally that night. I haven't seen it in a while but I remember vividly that shattering scream at the end and it giving me chills.



I love this song (Zurich version). I think he does a similar version at The North Sea Jazz shows? He’s wearing red for that one if I remember correctly. I’ll have to check out the other ones you mentioned!

Me too. There is audio of it but I'd love to see the performance again.The Zurich show pops up every once in a while. I think he played it on night 3 of NSJ if I recall. It was at the same show that "Girl" was performed. That was another great performance of "Empty Room" I just watched one from Paris 2014 that was also very good with him on the piano. He let out some pretty good screams on that one but not like the Zurich performance.



YES!! Those screams are gut-wrenching and full of emotion. I don’t think I’ve ever seen or heard or anything quite like that in a musical performance. Then again, I’m biased.
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Reply #228 posted 01/06/19 1:03pm

violetcrush

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

Yeah, okay right. NC2U is a straight up love song. Is NOT inspired by a platonic relationship with his housekeeper! So, "I can put my arms around every girl I see, but they'd only remind me of you" is describing his feelings for his housekeeper??? And, "it's been 7 hours and 15 days since you took your love away" is about his housekeeper??

*

Susannah has recently stated that she began a heavy and intimate relationship with Prince during the filming of PR, and then it stopped for awhile. I believe at some point prior to the film being released she went back to LA. In Alan Light's book she stated "well we lost touch for awhile while he was being a rock star - petulant and needy, getting any girl that he wanted".

*

So, it is possible that when he first wrote/recorded NC2U she had been back in LA.

Yes it was about his housekeeper.

You don't believe anything anyone tries to tell you, yet you expect us to believe your every word.

Just do some more research or at least do the correct research.

Susan Rogers words:

*

Prince’s sound engineer, Susan Rogers, goes back further: she witnessed Nothing Compares 2 U’s birth. In summer 1984, Prince was working in theFlying Cloud Drive Warehouse – his huge rehearsal space before creating Paisley Park – and was on “a creative roll, cranking out a song a day”. He was also in a relationship with the Family’s Susannah Melvoin (who can be heard on backing vocals, alongside St Paul, on Prince’s Nothing Compares 2 U). “It was clear that she was becoming more important than the other girls he’d dated,” Rogers says. “Simultaneously, his young housekeeper, Sandy Scipioni, had to leave suddenly to be with her family because her father died of a heart attack. Sandy ran Prince’s life. He kept asking, ‘When’s Sandy coming back?’”

*

While I have a huge respect for Susan and her knowledge of working with and recording with Prince, she may not have known exactly what was happening between Prince and Susannah in their relationship at that moment. Susannah stated she stopped the relationship between the end of filming PR and some point during the PR tour. Prince did not specifically tell her it was inspired by his housekeeper, so her perception may have been off there.

*

Sorry, I just don't see how the lyric, "I can put my arms around every girl I see, but they'd only remind me of you" is a "platonic" expression. The music, the way it's written, and the way it is sung clearly resonates as a love song.

It's been so lonely without you here
Like a bird without a song
Nothing can stop these lonely tears from falling
Tell me, baby, where did I go wrong?
I could put my arms around every girl I see
But they'd only remind me of you
I went to the doctor and guess what he told me
Guess what he told me?
He said, "Boy, you better try to have fun no matter what you do, But he's a fool

*

So, Prince called his housekeeper "baby"?? and he was crying lonely tears for her?? This is a love song for sure.

*

There's a reason why Sinead covered the song and made it a worldwide hit - it's a heartfelt love song.

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Reply #229 posted 01/06/19 1:08pm

violetcrush

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Actually, Prince's songs spoke even louder than his actions. Regarding the songs for Susannah, I believe what she said was " he would play me the song, and I knew perfectly well that it was about me". So, while he did not sit there and say, "hey Susannah, this song is about you", he would call her in and play it for her. She also stated a few times during the interview that Prince recorded based on what was happening to him in that moment.

*
However, with the song Forever In My Life, Prince specifically stated that song was inspired by/written for Susannah. Here is the text from that interview July 1997:

*

AOL live chat
AOL members



TheArtist: the artist is here...where r u?
TheArtist: prince is dead
OnlineHost: Welcome prince!
OnlineHost: We are so happy to “see” you biggrin
TheArtist: thank u all
OnlineHost: Well, we are a little behind, so let’s get started....
OnlineHost: OK?
TheArtist: ok
OnlineHost: Your first question of the evening:

Several questions down....
Question: What was your inspiration for the song Forever In My Life?
TheArtist: susannah
TheArtist: she knows

Regarding NC2U.....again, Susannah confirmed during her first talk with Toure that she and Prince began their full on relationship during the filming of PR. Then it stopped for awhile. Susan Rogers also specifically stated that Prince had a lot of beautiful girls around him, but Susannah was becoming more important to him at that time. She stated they were deciding whether or not they were going to be a couple. So, it is very feasible that Prince wrote the song during their first "breakup". Both of these things were happening at the same time - the housekeeper left to go to her Father's funeral, and Susannah most likely was back in LA. Again, the song is an intense love song. It is not written about a platonic relationship with a housekeeper. I know the lyrics of the song. The words "I know that livin' with me baby was sometimes hard..." does not have to mean cohabitating. I mean, he's not going to sing "I know that being in a relationship with me was sometimes hard", or "I know that dating me...". The phrase is a catchier way to say "being with". Prince was rarely "literal" when it came to his lyrics.

*

It has been stated here on the Org, which I think is a pretty reliable source in terms of concert information, that during the ONA tour, at the souncheck for the NPGMC members in Columbus Ohio, one of the fans asked Prince who Adore was written for/about. Prince responded, "Susannah".

*

NPGMC-member preshow / soundcheck The exact setlist and sequence of this preshow are uncertain.

Songs Additional Songs Remarks / Personnel Peach She Loves Me 4 Me (instrumental) The Ride When You Were Mine w/ NPGMC members guesting on various instruments Dolphin Prince talks to NPGMC members

*

*

Bottom line is this - there is enough "evidence" (songs, Susannah's statements, associates' statements, Prince's confirmation of some songs) to know that she was very important to him, and he had deep feelings for her. Even Wendy stated that the relationship was impossible but their love and pain inspired some amazing music.

[Edited 1/6/19 12:25pm]

I remember reading that transcript several years back. He was very open and just put it out there. Surprising to me that he typed that for all to read when he was married at the time.

Yes, that was surprising. Interestingly, I think Susannah's wedding was a month after this interview

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Reply #230 posted 01/06/19 1:10pm

pinkcashmere23

bsprout said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

Me too. There is audio of it but I'd love to see the performance again.The Zurich show pops up every once in a while. I think he played it on night 3 of NSJ if I recall. It was at the same show that "Girl" was performed. That was another great performance of "Empty Room" I just watched one from Paris 2014 that was also very good with him on the piano. He let out some pretty good screams on that one but not like the Zurich performance.

YES!! Those screams are gut-wrenching and full of emotion. I don’t think I’ve ever seen or heard or anything quite like that in a musical performance. Then again, I’m biased.

I agree! I've never heard a scream of his like the performance in Zurich. He seemed quite emotional during the one in Paris as well but his screams weren't as emotional or forceful.

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Reply #231 posted 01/06/19 1:15pm

violetcrush

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

The songs Empty Room, Go and Sexual Suicide were recorded Summer of 1985. She didn't dump him in 1985, however they were off and on many times from '83-?. She left MN permanently in the Fall of 1986. She was still recording with Prince in LA. Her last recording with him was Play In The Sunshine, Nov 22nd 1986. He had moved to a rental in LA for several months after she left MN. Per princevault.com:

Play In The Sunshine is the second track on the first disc of Prince's ninth album Sign O' The Times. A live version was also included in the concert movie Sign O' The Times.

Basic tracking took place on 22 November 1986 at Sunset Sound in Hollywood, California during Susannah Melvoin's final recording session withPrince (on the same day as adding overdubs to It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night) just eight days before completion of the Crystal Ball album. The track was initially included as the second track on the first disc on the 30 November 1986 configuration of Crystal Ball, which was eventually pared down and became Sign O' The Times. The introductory piece acting as a segue from Sign O' The Times to Play In The Sunshine on Sign O' The Times was recorded on 15 January 1987 at Sunset Sound.

*

She stated in the interview that she continued to see him for several years after this time. He would fly her to be with him. I believe she dated Seal from 1990-91, and then began a serious relationship with John Cusack from 1991 to 1995. Although, it would appear that Prince was still wanting to see her, per her information about Prince asking to come over in 1993.

I didn't know that she dated Seal. I knew that she sung background vocals on some of his albums with Wendy and Lisa.

Yes, they dated btw 1990-91 just as his first album was being released. She was also part of his band in 1994-95. She is in his Newborn Friend video (with short blonde hair), and she and Wendy performed I'm Alive with Seal at the Grammy's in 1995. It's a great performance. S & W both have short blonde hair. Susannah plays guitar and sings backround. Wendy and Lisa wrote music for Seal's second record. They were a big part of it. Here's a link in case you want to check it out:

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU-QnihbXcg

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Reply #232 posted 01/06/19 1:24pm

pinkcashmere23

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

I didn't know that she dated Seal. I knew that she sung background vocals on some of his albums with Wendy and Lisa.

Yes, they dated btw 1990-91 just as his first album was being released. She was also part of his band in 1994-95. She is in his Newborn Friend video (with short blonde hair), and she and Wendy performed I'm Alive with Seal at the Grammy's in 1995. It's a great performance. S & W both have short blonde hair. Susannah plays guitar and sings backround. Wendy and Lisa wrote music for Seal's second record. They were a big part of it. Here's a link in case you want to check it out:

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU-QnihbXcg

Did they meet during the recording of the first album? I loved Wendy and Lisa's involvement on his albums. Thanks for the link! I will check it out.

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Reply #233 posted 01/06/19 1:28pm

luvgirl

violetcrush said:



luvgirl said:


violetcrush said:



I disagree with a chunk of your assessment here. Yes, Prince did tell her he was not ready to live with her, and she moved into the apartment nearby. Yes, Prince was fooling around with other women off and on during their relationship - as he did in all of his relationships. However, I think it speaks volumes that after she made her decision to leave MN and end the relationship he literally moved out to LA for 2-3 months to attempt to get her to go back to MN with him. He obviously did not want her to leave. So, he clearly wasn't "moving on" from her as you stated. I think the songs Come Home *("how did it come to this, you living in your world and me dying in mine..."), Wally, FIML, etc..more clearly explain how he was feeling at that time.


*


You describe his proposal and getting engaged to her as "nonchalant". I disagree completely - especially when you consider a man like Prince. He sent her the flowers with the "word play" cards (Yes, No, Maybe..) which she discussed in another interview, he flew her to NYC, arranged for the private ring selection, bought her a SIX carat ring, flew her to Paris/Nice. Yes, she left for awhile so Prince could be "Prince" running around with Jerome. However, I don't recall reading or hearing about any similar effort he made with any other woman in the 80's. So, I would say it was a pretty big deal.


*


The fact that he was flying her over to be with him during the SOTT tour speaks volumes as well. I think by that point things were more on her terms. He wrote the song The Sex Of It and performed it only once - while she was attending his show Sept '87 in MN ("I gave you a diamond ring my friend, but that didn't get you off, French cologne $100 bucks an ounce, but all you did was cough...I couldn't love you any more I guess I'll hate you next....I got a spooky feeling she only wants me for the sex...") Susannah was also on stage with him during the LoveSexy show Sept '88 in MN and attended the tent party at PP. As she said, this went on for years and years. Her description of him calling her and asking to see her in '92/93 is also very telling, especially when he said, "I'm going to come back for you". I believe she was in a relationship with John Cusack during this time. She posted the card he sent to her in the mid 90's about the ballet he was writing..."I love U, please write". Sorry, but there are many many pieces of the puzzle that reveal he was not "moving on" from her. It seems SHE was moving on, and he was still seeking her out.


*


The article/interview you quoted from 2013 where Susannah stated she's glad she's not there anymore and she's got the best two babies.." Well, yeah I would imagine she was/is content to live the life she has now with her kids. I think it's also important to mention that during this time she and Prince were not on good terms, because of the fDeluxe record. She had also begun contributing to some of the Biographies - Alan Light's and Matt Thorne's - which I'm sure did not sit well with Prince. She had never discussed her time with him prior to this. In an interview with Rockerzine magazine, also in 2013, she stated Prince would not speak to her after their phone conversation. He began speaking to Paul Peterson, whom he had not communicated with in many years. So, I'm sure that was hurtful to her. That was Prince, and this happened with many of his associates through the years.


*


Susannah stated that Prince was the greatest "Lover" of her life. However, that does not mean that SHE was not the greatest "Love" of Prince's life. I'm not declaring that she was that for Prince, but I do know that he wrote a hell of a lot of deep, emotional and loving songs for/about her.




In regards to my post. I'm not gonna get into a nasty debate trying to tear Susannah and Prince's relationship down. You have your speculations and opinions, and I have mine. That's all they are for both of us, while Prince's actions spoke louder than words. In regards to the songs, I've never heard that Prince told Susannah that a particular song was about her apart from FIML and since I've never heard it myself, I'm not confident enough with the folk lore of Adore that circulated on the Org. In one of her other interviews, Susannah stated that Prince never told her that any songs were about her. Wendy expressed the same sentiments. She said the words never came out of his mouth. Prince Associates and Orgers alike only SPECULATE on who they think a song is about. More often than not they are wrong. As Prince himself has stated. Susannah said that she just knew darn well when a song was a bout her. Which, as it turned out recently, her perceptions wasn't always correct. Having said that, I understand the reason why she would think a few of them was in reference to their relationship with certain specificity, but not all the songs said to be about her have significant identity to her. Please tell me the specificity of NC2U? Susan Rogers said NC2U was about Susan Scoponi and specified the lyrics in association. Susan Rogers was actually there the day that Prince wrote the song. She remembered being in the other room. She said Prince and Susannah were still an item at that time and Prince was not living with her. Read the lyrics. With that scenario, how could the lyrics be in connection to their situation? Those lyrics are intended for someone he was no longer in a relationship with... That he lived with. Keep in mind.... WRITTEN on the day Susan Rogers was in attendance to witness all. The situation she explained in regards to Empty Room did not seem befitting to the lyrics either in my opinion. [Edited 1/6/19 11:31am]


Actually, Prince's songs spoke even louder than his actions. Regarding the songs for Susannah, I believe what she said was " he would play me the song, and I knew perfectly well that it was about me". So, while he did not sit there and say, "hey Susannah, this song is about you", he would call her in and play it for her. She also stated a few times during the interview that Prince recorded based on what was happening to him in that moment.


*
However, with the song Forever In My Life, Prince specifically stated that song was inspired by/written for Susannah. Here is the text from that interview July 1997:


*




AOL live chat
AOL members





TheArtist: the artist is here...where r u?
TheArtist: prince is dead
OnlineHost: Welcome prince!
OnlineHost: We are so happy to “see” you biggrin
TheArtist: thank u all
OnlineHost: Well, we are a little behind, so let’s get started....
OnlineHost: OK?
TheArtist: ok
OnlineHost: Your first question of the evening:


Several questions down....
Question: What was your inspiration for the song Forever In My Life?
TheArtist: susannah
TheArtist: she knows



Regarding NC2U.....again, Susannah confirmed during her first talk with Toure that she and Prince began their full on relationship during the filming of PR. Then it stopped for awhile. Susan Rogers also specifically stated that Prince had a lot of beautiful girls around him, but Susannah was becoming more important to him at that time. She stated they were deciding whether or not they were going to be a couple. So, it is very feasible that Prince wrote the song during their first "breakup". Both of these things were happening at the same time - the housekeeper left to go to her Father's funeral, and Susannah most likely was back in LA. Again, the song is an intense love song. It is not written about a platonic relationship with a housekeeper. I know the lyrics of the song. The words "I know that livin' with me baby was sometimes hard..." does not have to mean cohabitating. I mean, he's not going to sing "I know that being in a relationship with me was sometimes hard", or "I know that dating me...". The phrase is a catchier way to say "being with". Prince was rarely "literal" when it came to his lyrics.


*


It has been stated here on the Org, which I think is a pretty reliable source in terms of concert information, that during the ONA tour, at the souncheck for the NPGMC members in Columbus Ohio, one of the fans asked Prince who Adore was written for/about. Prince responded, "Susannah".


*


NPGMC-member preshow / soundcheck
The exact setlist and sequence of this preshow are uncertain.




Songs
Additional Songs
Remarks / Personnel



Peach



She Loves Me 4 Me (instrumental)



The Ride



When You Were Mine

w/ NPGMC members guesting on various instruments

Dolphin



Prince talks to NPGMC members


*















*



Bottom line is this - there is enough "evidence" (songs, Susannah's statements, associates' statements, Prince's confirmation of some songs) to know that she was very important to him, and he had deep feelings for her. Even Wendy stated that the relationship was impossible but their love and pain inspired some amazing music.

[Edited 1/6/19 12:25pm]



In my post to you I said apart from FIML, which is an abbreviation for Forever In My Life, and I did mention that I knew about the text from AOL that's been circulating on the Org for ages but wasn't confident in it, so I don't understand why you are referencing the songs back to me? Read what I said in my prior post regarding Forever in My Life and Adore.

It's your prerogative to choose to believe NC2U is about Susannah. I don't, along with many others, including Susan Rogers.
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Reply #234 posted 01/06/19 1:37pm

violetcrush

luvgirl said:

violetcrush said:

Actually, Prince's songs spoke even louder than his actions. Regarding the songs for Susannah, I believe what she said was " he would play me the song, and I knew perfectly well that it was about me". So, while he did not sit there and say, "hey Susannah, this song is about you", he would call her in and play it for her. She also stated a few times during the interview that Prince recorded based on what was happening to him in that moment.

*
However, with the song Forever In My Life, Prince specifically stated that song was inspired by/written for Susannah. Here is the text from that interview July 1997:

*

AOL live chat
AOL members



TheArtist: the artist is here...where r u?
TheArtist: prince is dead
OnlineHost: Welcome prince!
OnlineHost: We are so happy to “see” you biggrin
TheArtist: thank u all
OnlineHost: Well, we are a little behind, so let’s get started....
OnlineHost: OK?
TheArtist: ok
OnlineHost: Your first question of the evening:

Several questions down....
Question: What was your inspiration for the song Forever In My Life?
TheArtist: susannah
TheArtist: she knows

Regarding NC2U.....again, Susannah confirmed during her first talk with Toure that she and Prince began their full on relationship during the filming of PR. Then it stopped for awhile. Susan Rogers also specifically stated that Prince had a lot of beautiful girls around him, but Susannah was becoming more important to him at that time. She stated they were deciding whether or not they were going to be a couple. So, it is very feasible that Prince wrote the song during their first "breakup". Both of these things were happening at the same time - the housekeeper left to go to her Father's funeral, and Susannah most likely was back in LA. Again, the song is an intense love song. It is not written about a platonic relationship with a housekeeper. I know the lyrics of the song. The words "I know that livin' with me baby was sometimes hard..." does not have to mean cohabitating. I mean, he's not going to sing "I know that being in a relationship with me was sometimes hard", or "I know that dating me...". The phrase is a catchier way to say "being with". Prince was rarely "literal" when it came to his lyrics.

*

It has been stated here on the Org, which I think is a pretty reliable source in terms of concert information, that during the ONA tour, at the souncheck for the NPGMC members in Columbus Ohio, one of the fans asked Prince who Adore was written for/about. Prince responded, "Susannah".

*

NPGMC-member preshow / soundcheck The exact setlist and sequence of this preshow are uncertain.

Songs Additional Songs Remarks / Personnel Peach She Loves Me 4 Me (instrumental) The Ride When You Were Mine w/ NPGMC members guesting on various instruments Dolphin Prince talks to NPGMC members

*

*

Bottom line is this - there is enough "evidence" (songs, Susannah's statements, associates' statements, Prince's confirmation of some songs) to know that she was very important to him, and he had deep feelings for her. Even Wendy stated that the relationship was impossible but their love and pain inspired some amazing music.

[Edited 1/6/19 12:25pm]

In my post to you I said apart from FIML, which is an abbreviation for Forever In My Life, and I did mention that I knew about the text from AOL that's been circulating on the Org for ages but wasn't confident in it, so I don't understand why you are referencing the songs back to me? Read what I said in my prior post regarding Forever in My Life and Adore. It's your prerogative to choose to believe NC2U is about Susannah. I don't, along with many others, including Susan Rogers.

The AOL live chat text did not originate here on the Org. The text is from a published interview that was done by the AOL Live Chat site on July 22, 1997 directly with Prince/The Artist. The interview was published with his involvement and permission. It was never deleted. I have no doubt that he chose the questions though. Here is the link to the entire interview, which is also found on princevault.com:

*

https://sites.google.com/site/prninterviews/home/aol-live-22-july-1997

*

I read your text about Adore, and I followed that with the date and information for the show where Prince was asked about the song by an NPGMC member.

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Reply #235 posted 01/06/19 1:41pm

violetcrush

pinkcashmere23 said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, they dated btw 1990-91 just as his first album was being released. She was also part of his band in 1994-95. She is in his Newborn Friend video (with short blonde hair), and she and Wendy performed I'm Alive with Seal at the Grammy's in 1995. It's a great performance. S & W both have short blonde hair. Susannah plays guitar and sings backround. Wendy and Lisa wrote music for Seal's second record. They were a big part of it. Here's a link in case you want to check it out:

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU-QnihbXcg

Did they meet during the recording of the first album? I loved Wendy and Lisa's involvement on his albums. Thanks for the link! I will check it out.

You're welcome! I'm not sure exactly when or how they met - could have been while she was touring in Europe with Wendy and Lisa in '89.

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Reply #236 posted 01/06/19 1:54pm

pinkcashmere23

violetcrush said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

Did they meet during the recording of the first album? I loved Wendy and Lisa's involvement on his albums. Thanks for the link! I will check it out.

You're welcome! I'm not sure exactly when or how they met - could have been while she was touring in Europe with Wendy and Lisa in '89.

Yes,I think thats probable. When I got his first album I was happy to find they were on it and I loved the songs. I noticed Susannah's name in the liner notes but I had no clue they had dated. Enjoyed the performance in the clip you shared. Cool to see Susannah playing guitar.

[Edited 1/6/19 14:09pm]

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Reply #237 posted 01/06/19 1:54pm

luvgirl

violetcrush said:



PennyPurple said:




violetcrush said:




Yeah, okay right. NC2U is a straight up love song. Is NOT inspired by a platonic relationship with his housekeeper! So, "I can put my arms around every girl I see, but they'd only remind me of you" is describing his feelings for his housekeeper??? And, "it's been 7 hours and 15 days since you took your love away" is about his housekeeper??


*


Susannah has recently stated that she began a heavy and intimate relationship with Prince during the filming of PR, and then it stopped for awhile. I believe at some point prior to the film being released she went back to LA. In Alan Light's book she stated "well we lost touch for awhile while he was being a rock star - petulant and needy, getting any girl that he wanted".


*


So, it is possible that when he first wrote/recorded NC2U she had been back in LA.



Yes it was about his housekeeper.


You don't believe anything anyone tries to tell you, yet you expect us to believe your every word.


Just do some more research or at least do the correct research.




Susan Rogers words:


*


Prince’s sound engineer, Susan Rogers, goes back further: she witnessed Nothing Compares 2 U’s birth. In summer 1984, Prince was working in theFlying Cloud Drive Warehouse – his huge rehearsal space before creating Paisley Park – and was on “a creative roll, cranking out a song a day”. He was also in a relationship with the Family’s Susannah Melvoin (who can be heard on backing vocals, alongside St Paul, on Prince’s Nothing Compares 2 U). “It was clear that she was becoming more important than the other girls he’d dated,” Rogers says. “Simultaneously, his young housekeeper, Sandy Scipioni, had to leave suddenly to be with her family because her father died of a heart attack. Sandy ran Prince’s life. He kept asking, ‘When’s Sandy coming back?’”


*


While I have a huge respect for Susan and her knowledge of working with and recording with Prince, she may not have known exactly what was happening between Prince and Susannah in their relationship at that moment. Susannah stated she stopped the relationship between the end of filming PR and some point during the PR tour. Prince did not specifically tell her it was inspired by his housekeeper, so her perception may have been off there.


*


Sorry, I just don't see how the lyric, "I can put my arms around every girl I see, but they'd only remind me of you" is a "platonic" expression. The music, the way it's written, and the way it is sung clearly resonates as a love song.



It's been so lonely without you here
Like a bird without a song
Nothing can stop these lonely tears from falling
Tell me, baby, where did I go wrong?
I could put my arms around every girl I see
But they'd only remind me of you
I went to the doctor and guess what he told me
Guess what he told me?
He said, "Boy, you better try to have fun no matter what you do, But he's a fool


*


So, Prince called his housekeeper "baby"?? and he was crying lonely tears for her?? This is a love song for sure.


*


There's a reason why Sinead covered the song and made it a worldwide hit - it's a heartfelt love song.



Here's the link and some parts you left out https://www.theguardian.c...c-released


One day, he went into a room with a notebook and, within an hour, emerged with the lyrics to Nothing Compares 2 U. Rogers, who witnessed many such bursts of creativity, remembers, “The song came out like a sneeze.” As usual, she rolled the tapes as Prince laid down instrument after instrument, mixing and overdubbing in the same session (Eric Leeds overdubbed the sax part three days later). Rogers felt the finished song was “exceptional, in his Top 10”, but has a compelling theory about why Prince didn’t release the song under his own name (a live duet with Rosie Gaines appeared years later, on the 1993 compilation, The Hits/The B-Sides).

He wasn’t living with anyone, but he was a young man writing about domesticity. The line ‘all the flowers that you planted in my back yard went out and died’… it would have been Sandy who planted those flowers. ‘And I know that living with me baby is sometimes hard, but I’m willing to give it another try…’ There was no romantic relationship with Sandy. It’s not a pained ‘Help me, baby’ track. It’s: ‘You’re gone and I miss you,’ which is probably why he felt comfortable giving the song away to the Family. He released his material based on what he wanted us to know about him and, wonderful as it is, he didn’t want it to represent him.”
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Reply #238 posted 01/06/19 2:14pm

pinkcashmere23

violetcrush said:

luvgirl said:

violetcrush said: In my post to you I said apart from FIML, which is an abbreviation for Forever In My Life, and I did mention that I knew about the text from AOL that's been circulating on the Org for ages but wasn't confident in it, so I don't understand why you are referencing the songs back to me? Read what I said in my prior post regarding Forever in My Life and Adore. It's your prerogative to choose to believe NC2U is about Susannah. I don't, along with many others, including Susan Rogers.

The AOL live chat text did not originate here on the Org. The text is from a published interview that was done by the AOL Live Chat site on July 22, 1997 directly with Prince/The Artist. The interview was published with his involvement and permission. It was never deleted. I have no doubt that he chose the questions though. Here is the link to the entire interview, which is also found on princevault.com:

*

https://sites.google.com/site/prninterviews/home/aol-live-22-july-1997

*

I read your text about Adore, and I followed that with the date and information for the show where Prince was asked about the song by an NPGMC member.

Thanks for sharing the link to the chat! I've been wanting to read it again.

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Reply #239 posted 01/06/19 2:37pm

violetcrush

luvgirl said:

violetcrush said:

Susan Rogers words:

*

Prince’s sound engineer, Susan Rogers, goes back further: she witnessed Nothing Compares 2 U’s birth. In summer 1984, Prince was working in theFlying Cloud Drive Warehouse – his huge rehearsal space before creating Paisley Park – and was on “a creative roll, cranking out a song a day”. He was also in a relationship with the Family’s Susannah Melvoin (who can be heard on backing vocals, alongside St Paul, on Prince’s Nothing Compares 2 U). “It was clear that she was becoming more important than the other girls he’d dated,” Rogers says. “Simultaneously, his young housekeeper, Sandy Scipioni, had to leave suddenly to be with her family because her father died of a heart attack. Sandy ran Prince’s life. He kept asking, ‘When’s Sandy coming back?’”

*

While I have a huge respect for Susan and her knowledge of working with and recording with Prince, she may not have known exactly what was happening between Prince and Susannah in their relationship at that moment. Susannah stated she stopped the relationship between the end of filming PR and some point during the PR tour. Prince did not specifically tell her it was inspired by his housekeeper, so her perception may have been off there.

*

Sorry, I just don't see how the lyric, "I can put my arms around every girl I see, but they'd only remind me of you" is a "platonic" expression. The music, the way it's written, and the way it is sung clearly resonates as a love song.

It's been so lonely without you here
Like a bird without a song
Nothing can stop these lonely tears from falling
Tell me, baby, where did I go wrong?
I could put my arms around every girl I see
But they'd only remind me of you
I went to the doctor and guess what he told me
Guess what he told me?
He said, "Boy, you better try to have fun no matter what you do, But he's a fool

*

So, Prince called his housekeeper "baby"?? and he was crying lonely tears for her?? This is a love song for sure.

*

There's a reason why Sinead covered the song and made it a worldwide hit - it's a heartfelt love song.

Here's the link and some parts you left out https://www.theguardian.c...c-released One day, he went into a room with a notebook and, within an hour, emerged with the lyrics to Nothing Compares 2 U. Rogers, who witnessed many such bursts of creativity, remembers, “The song came out like a sneeze.” As usual, she rolled the tapes as Prince laid down instrument after instrument, mixing and overdubbing in the same session (Eric Leeds overdubbed the sax part three days later). Rogers felt the finished song was “exceptional, in his Top 10”, but has a compelling theory about why Prince didn’t release the song under his own name (a live duet with Rosie Gaines appeared years later, on the 1993 compilation, The Hits/The B-Sides).He wasn’t living with anyone, but he was a young man writing about domesticity. The line ‘all the flowers that you planted in my back yard went out and died’… it would have been Sandy who planted those flowers. ‘And I know that living with me baby is sometimes hard, but I’m willing to give it another try…’ There was no romantic relationship with Sandy. It’s not a pained ‘Help me, baby’ track. It’s: ‘You’re gone and I miss you,’ which is probably why he felt comfortable giving the song away to the Family. He released his material based on what he wanted us to know about him and, wonderful as it is, he didn’t want it to represent him.”

Again, while I really respect Susan Rogers, and think she is a very reliable resource for information about recording with Prince during that time, I don't agree with her perception of this song being just a platonic expression toward his housekeeper. Also, he gave away Come Home to Mavis Staples and 101 to Sheena Easton - both very intense songs about wanting his lover back. He also gave 5 Women - another intense song about missing a lover - to Joe Cocker. Her idea that it was not a love song, so he felt comfortable giving it away does not mesh with other songs that he gave away. And in this case, the song was still staying close to him by giving it to The Family - and if it is in fact inspired by Susannah - she was co-lead for the song, which also makes sense.

*

The fact that Susan spent much time with Prince does not mean she couldn't get a song meaning or inspiration misconstrued.

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