OldFriends4Sale said:

BEAUGARDE said:

Ice Cream Castles is my favorite Time song & the album is just as good as their other albums & Prince was a co-writer for Jungle Love, he wrote the lyrics & added his stank on like he did with Mountains. Jungle Love could easily been replaced bi Jerk Out or Chocolate

Jungle Love is a fun song, but it isn't on the same level of Mountains or Jerk Out (Jerk Out as a 1982 What Time Is It? outtake) for some reason they didn't want it for the lyrical content.

Chocolate is an Ice Cream Castles outtake too

.

Jungle Love cannot cannot come close to The Walk 777-9311 IDon'tWant2LeaveU Wild n Loose Gigolos Get Lonely 2

.

The 2nd album just has flow. Ice Cream Castles doesn't. It has potential, just not focused.

I want an instrumental of Chili Sauce.

I actually enjoy and have always enjoyed If the Kid Can't Make U Come... but it never made sense the use of The Kid (ie Prince in Purple Rain) and Morris Day singing it

Wasn't the point of the song to ridicule The Kid; hence the title?

SoulAlive said:

Jesse has said Prince wanted The Time to record "Do Yourself A Favor".Prince's demo was recorded in 1982 but since it wasn't used for What Time Is It,I think it would have fit perfectly on Ice Cream Castles.I would have liked the album better if the tracklist looked like this:

Side 1-

Ice Cream Castles

My Drawers

Chocolate

Side 2-

Jungle Love

Do Yourself A Favor

The Bird

no slow jams,but that's OK I don't think "If The Kid Can't Make You Come" is very good anyway

THIS version of ICC would've been CLASSIC!!! BTW- I favor Jesse's version of "Do Yourself A Favor" over P's (I'm SURE I'm the Minority), so it MAY have been interesting 2 give Morris one Verse & Jesse the other!!!

MotownSubdivision said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Jungle Love is a fun song, but it isn't on the same level of Mountains or Jerk Out (Jerk Out as a 1982 What Time Is It? outtake) for some reason they didn't want it for the lyrical content.

Chocolate is an Ice Cream Castles outtake too

.

Jungle Love cannot cannot come close to The Walk 777-9311 IDon'tWant2LeaveU Wild n Loose Gigolos Get Lonely 2

.

The 2nd album just has flow. Ice Cream Castles doesn't. It has potential, just not focused.

I want an instrumental of Chili Sauce.

I actually enjoy and have always enjoyed If the Kid Can't Make U Come... but it never made sense the use of The Kid (ie Prince in Purple Rain) and Morris Day singing it

Wasn't the point of the song to ridicule The Kid; hence the title?

it plain didn't make sense until you realize the fact that the kid/morris were alter egos of Prince and sometimes they overlapped and sometimes they got songs mixed up, someone on here said International Lover was originally written for Morris, it made complete sense.

woogiebear said:

Genesia said:

laurarichardson said:

I did and so did about 500,000 other people since it went Gold. This was a very popular RnB album and never really had a chance on the pop chart. Maybe some of you are too young to know this but no pop station is playing "If The Kid Can't Make You Come" or My Drawers"

"Some of you are too young to know"? Thanks, Laura - but I'm plenty old enough to know. I still have my original vinyl purchased in 1984.

The OP asked a question that called for speculation. So I speculated.

Thanks for your two-bit opinion on my answer.

Then apparently the answer to your original question "Because who wants to spend ten bucks on an album that only has four songs on it?" is...you.

MotownSubdivision said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Jungle Love is a fun song, but it isn't on the same level of Mountains or Jerk Out (Jerk Out as a 1982 What Time Is It? outtake) for some reason they didn't want it for the lyrical content.

Chocolate is an Ice Cream Castles outtake too

.

Jungle Love cannot cannot come close to The Walk 777-9311 IDon'tWant2LeaveU Wild n Loose Gigolos Get Lonely 2

.

The 2nd album just has flow. Ice Cream Castles doesn't. It has potential, just not focused.

I want an instrumental of Chili Sauce.

I actually enjoy and have always enjoyed If the Kid Can't Make U Come... but it never made sense the use of The Kid (ie Prince in Purple Rain) and Morris Day singing it

Wasn't the point of the song to ridicule The Kid; hence the title?

how so? If the Kid cannot make you come, nobody can? that is not a ridicule

PeteSilas said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Wasn't the point of the song to ridicule The Kid; hence the title?

it plain didn't make sense until you realize the fact that the kid/morris were alter egos of Prince and sometimes they overlapped and sometimes they got songs mixed up, someone on here said International Lover was originally written for Morris, it made complete sense.

correct

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Jungle Love cannot cannot come close to The Walk ,777-9311, IDon'tWant2LeaveU, Wild n Loose Gigolos Get Lonely 2

The 2nd album just has flow. Ice Cream Castles doesn't.

Exactly.What Time Is It? is a funk masterpiece.Every song on there is superb.

"Gigolos Get Lonely Too" is an excellent slow jam.Such a shame that Prince didn't give them a great slow jam for Ice Cream Castles.I think "If The Kid Can't Make You Come" is a silly,overlong song that goes nowhere.

Yes, My Summertime Thang would have been the slowjam.

And I still get weird about the lack of Bsides from What Time Is It?

To the OP - I think there were a few reasons that crossed my mind back in '84 when it came out:

1. Even though it had songs from "Purple Rain" on it, the album was not marketed as part of the movie's soundtrack;

2. Compounding that was the selection of the title/opening song, which was not in "Purple Rain". Even I - a diehard Prince fan even then - upon hearing that The Time was releasing an album called "Ice Cream Castle" first thought, "I guess their songs from the movie aren't going to be released, because I've never heard of 'Ice Cream Castle'";

3. Then of course perhaps the main reason is that The Time had broken up, and wasn't around to promote the album with TV appearances and a tour; and

4. Were there any videos for these songs that were shown on MTV? I know there wasn't one for "Ice Cream Castle" but I kind of remember maybe seeing "Jungle Love" and/or "The Bird"? Don't I? See, there's a problem. And if there were videos for those two songs, they were simply the performance scenes from "Purple Rain".


BTW, the videos of both The Time's and Vanity 6's 3/15/83 First Avenue performances are floating around. Holy MOLEY all the rumors were true - The Time could play CIRCLES around the Revolution back then. The music on the Vanity 6 performance is especially tight.

Also, the audio of The Time's other '83 First Avenue performance is out there. It's a much longer set than the 3/15/83 set, and Morris takes some big-time jabs at Prince (all of which are detailed in the 2017 Book of the Year, Duane Tudahl's "Prince and the Purple Rain Era Studio Sessions")

PeteSilas said:

MotownSubdivision said:

The album peaked at #24 on the pop charts and it's highest-scoring single ("Jungle Love") just made the Top 20.

Obviously the album wasn't going to have the runaway success that Purple Rain enjoyed but it feels as though Ice Cream Castle underachieved. That said, the album was successful on the black charts (peaking at a much higher #3 with "Ice Cream Castles" and "Jungle Love" hitting #11 and #6, respectively) which was always the Time's core audience but am I the only one who feels that it should've had more crossover appeal?

i loved the album, i think it was about as good, maybe not quite as good as the debut but close. Probably Morris' drug problems and the Time's internecine issues had something to do with it. I do remember Jungle Love being a huge hit, Ice Cream Castles was one that I could have seen crossing over better with it's less funky sound. The band was done by the end of the filming for Purple Rain so there wasn't really any way to push anything. Most people say Morris' drug habits were the culprit, Prince has said that Jesse Johnson wanted to be a star (which was true) some people blamed Prince for the breakup which he denied, later he seems to have been relieved by them falling apart because he considered them real competition. I've heard something about jellbean Johnson having a near fight with Prince too, no one liked him back then but it does not sound like he was at fault for the band falling apart at that point, aside from the fact that he yanked jimmy and terry, (which he later denied doing and he seemed to mean as just a ploy to scare them but it backfired and they really left).

According to Jellybean it was Prince & Morris. Jellybean was the one to break it up.
Jellybean had the fight with the Kid in Purple Rain(deleted scene).

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

i loved the album, i think it was about as good, maybe not quite as good as the debut but close. Probably Morris' drug problems and the Time's internecine issues had something to do with it. I do remember Jungle Love being a huge hit, Ice Cream Castles was one that I could have seen crossing over better with it's less funky sound. The band was done by the end of the filming for Purple Rain so there wasn't really any way to push anything. Most people say Morris' drug habits were the culprit, Prince has said that Jesse Johnson wanted to be a star (which was true) some people blamed Prince for the breakup which he denied, later he seems to have been relieved by them falling apart because he considered them real competition. I've heard something about jellbean Johnson having a near fight with Prince too, no one liked him back then but it does not sound like he was at fault for the band falling apart at that point, aside from the fact that he yanked jimmy and terry, (which he later denied doing and he seemed to mean as just a ploy to scare them but it backfired and they really left).

According to Jellybean it was Prince & Morris. Jellybean was the one to break it up.
Jellybean had the fight with the Kid in Purple Rain(deleted scene).

Jellybean - don't be so mean!

OldFriends4Sale said:

MotownSubdivision said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

how so? If the Kid cannot make you come, nobody can? that is not a ridicule

Maybe I should Listen to the song again. I tend to zone out when ever I let it play.

It is sung from Morris perspective, I think the song was probably going to be Prince. I seriously think this song might have been the music for the deleted Barn scene.

Baby if I cannot make you cum, no one else can. It is ego talking.

OldFriends4Sale said:

I remember in the summer of '84,I saw this clip in the original trailer for Purple Rain.I wonder why it was removed from the movie.

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I remember in the summer of '84,I saw this clip in the original trailer for Purple Rain.I wonder why it was removed from the movie.

It would have made sense to have it in.
The reason for the Kids jealousy wasn't so evident in the movie

Can't call it , but both 2nd n 3rd album had at least 1 weak track on it. 2nd was Wild n Loose, which I could never get into save the very end ("Where the party at? Right here under ur shoe... etc."), the rest is pretty damn good. 777, The Walk is 1 o my fave songs, Gigolos is dope. 3rd was If the Kid Can't... (it's okaaay, but all that lame sex talk don't work), but again the rest is also damn good. Jungle Love is classic, The Bird, My Drawers n who don't like Chili Sauce? The music is superb, his convo w/ P is priceless n lots o good 1 liners. What's it gonna b? Chili Sauce... Their 1st is their real classic. Every song is brilliant. 1 o my go tos .

purplepolitician said:

Can't call it , but both 2nd n 3rd album had at least 1 weak track on it. 2nd was Wild n Loose, which I could never get into save the very end ("Where the party at? Right here under ur shoe... etc."), the rest is pretty damn good. 777, The Walk is 1 o my fave songs, Gigolos is dope. 3rd was If the Kid Can't... (it's okaaay, but all that lame sex talk don't work), but again the rest is also damn good. Jungle Love is classic, The Bird, My Drawers n who don't like Chili Sauce? The music is superb, his convo w/ P is priceless n lots o good 1 liners. What's it gonna b? Chili Sauce... Their 1st is their real classic. Every song is brilliant. 1 o my go tos .

I LOVE Wild & Loose, it is like an intro party to the (1999era esque) world of the Time

I would love to hear an instrumental of Chili Sauce.

Some very mature sounds on there ie Proposition 17

OldFriends4Sale said:

MotownSubdivision said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

It is sung from Morris perspective, I think the song was probably going to be Prince. I seriously think this song might have been the music for the deleted Barn scene.

Baby if I cannot make you cum, no one else can. It is ego talking.

All right. I've never really paid attention to the song since I usually skip it so I just took it as Morris ridiculing The Kid. "If The Kid Can't Make You Cum then I'll get the job done" or something along those lines. Would've made more sense if it were written that way with Morris singing it.

Yes

databank said:

I'm always sad to see Chili Sauce dubbed a filler by fans, and even by Duane in his book. That track is so misunderstood. It was a very daring and experimental thing for Prince to do. The music is, in fact, quite beautiful when listened to closely, and the juxtaposition of that hilarious, ridiculous dialogue makes it a true oddity. It may, in fact, be the strongest track on the whole album. Of course The Bird and Jungle Love have become true funk classics, but they're nothing unusual in the purple songbook, while Chilli Sauce is pretty unique. I wish there existed an instrumental version, so the music could be heard without being distracted by the dialogue (even though the true genius of the piece comes from both music and vocals being associated). [Edited 2/1/18 9:28am]

I need to hear Proposition 17 (Chili Sauce instrumental) I wonder has Novi Novog talked about this recording at all.

The music is wonderful

I used to listen to it all the time for the talk by Morris Day, but then it started to distract me from the music that swirled around it.

.
I usually try to remind people that Chili Sauces is an extended conversation Morris Day had with Apollonia in Purple Rain, and look at it as an extension of the movie

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I need to hear Proposition 17 (Chili Sauce instrumental) I wonder has Novi Novog talked about this recording at all.

The music is wonderful

I used to listen to it all the time for the talk by Morris Day, but then it started to distract me from the music that swirled around it.

.
I usually try to remind people that Chili Sauces is an extended conversation Morris Day had with Apollonia in Purple Rain, and look at it as an extension of the movie

Novi addressed the circumstances of the session in Duane's book but unfortunately did not comment on what Prince instructed her to do. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one feeling that track. I'd add to my plea that using the term "filler" is all the more inaccurate when considering that Prince had a great amount of songs in the vault that he coups have chosen to add to ICC instead, starting with My Summertime Thang and Chocolate, both recorded at the same time as Chili Sauce. Prince clearly chose CS over other songs that were funkier and more accessible. He knew what he was doing. On a sidenote I also find it pretty logical, given the final tracklist, to have replaced the poppish Manic Monday by the infectious Happy Birthday Mr Christian on Apollonia 6: it belonged to the collection much more than a gentle pop song.

I remember her talking about working with Prince and how he let her flow with the music. But nothing more specific.

.

I also think though, that Prince knowing Morris Day wasn't going to promo Ice Cream Castles and Apoollonia couldn't carry Apollonia 6, that the song choices were most likely influenced by that.
I still don't think Chili Sauces if filler, but it was an album that wasn't going to be promoted live.

.

Manic Monday as is, was a hit. I wish Prince would have done a due with Brenda and released it, because it would have been a hit. And was a better song than Ooh She Wa Wa. Even though I enjoy it, Manic Monday would have hit.

RE: CHILI SAUCE, if you count the Propositions there are actually 17! "Morris, 17!" "CHILI SAAUUCE"

Dandroppedadime said:

RE: CHILI SAUCE, if you count the Propositions there are actually 17! "Morris, 17!" "CHILI SAAUUCE"

OldFriends4Sale said:

Manic Monday as is, was a hit. I wish Prince would have done a duet with Brenda and released it, because it would have been a hit. And was a better song than Ooh She Wa Wa. Even though I enjoy it, Manic Monday would have hit.

Brenda has said that she didn't really like "Manic Monday"....she said it is too "pop" and I have to agree I don't think that it would have fit well with the other songs on the album.It's interesting,though,to think about all the songs that were considered for the album: "17 Days","Take Me With U","The Glamorous Life",etc....but that's another thread

she woulda changed her tune if it made a hit for them, i hear cher didn't like gypsy's tramps and thieves either.

PeteSilas said:

she woulda changed her tune if it made a hit for them, i hear cher didn't like gypsy's tramps and thieves either.

Honestly,I don't think the song would have been a hit for A6.It made perfect sense to give to the Bangles...it was more their style.

SoulAlive said:

PeteSilas said:

she woulda changed her tune if it made a hit for them, i hear cher didn't like gypsy's tramps and thieves either.

Honestly,I don't think the song would have been a hit for A6.It made perfect sense to give to the Bangles...it was more their style.

not much to the song, i guess harmonically the bangles did it justice but anyone coulda sang it.

PeteSilas said:

she woulda changed her tune if it made a hit for them, i hear cher didn't like gypsy's tramps and thieves either.

I agree lol might have put her on the map