I really liked the album. It was the one that introduced me to The Time.

However, once I found the other two albums. Ice Cream Castle quickly became my 3rd favorite.

In fact, after the two new albums it is now my fifth favorite album which doesn't mean I don't enjoy it but I don't think it is as strong as their other work.

PeteSilas said:

BEAUGARDE said:

They broke up because Morris wanted to be in control of The Time but it was Prince's bottom line, same as Vanity 6 & The Family. The lead singers wanted to their own thing that's all

several factors, morris was coked out, jesse wanted to be the star, jim and terry had been gone. I think it's same thing that many bands break up over, who gets what attention and how much money. I've heard that with all the problems the time had, with Prince, jesse johnson turned around and didn't pay his band when he went solo.

Actually I don't look at what happened with the Time as a break up, but a bust up -by Prince.

.

I have no doubt that if Prince did not fire JimmyJam & Terry Lewis, that the Time:Morris Day Jimmy Jam Terry Lewis Monte Moore Jellybean Johnson Jesse Johnson & Jerome Benton, would have continued as a band, toured, done other videos, award shows(performances) and a heavier promotion of Ice Cream Castles.

laurarichardson said:

Genesia said:

Because who wants to spend ten bucks on an album that only has four songs on it?

I did and so did about 500,000 other people since it went Gold. This was a very popular RnB album and never really had a chance on the pop chart. Maybe some of you are too young to know this but no pop station is playing "If The Kid Can't Make You Come" or My Drawers"

"Some of you are too young to know"? Thanks, Laura - but I'm plenty old enough to know. I still have my original vinyl purchased in 1984.

The OP asked a question that called for speculation. So I speculated.

Thanks for your two-bit opinion on my answer.

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

several factors, morris was coked out, jesse wanted to be the star, jim and terry had been gone. I think it's same thing that many bands break up over, who gets what attention and how much money. I've heard that with all the problems the time had, with Prince, jesse johnson turned around and didn't pay his band when he went solo.

Actually I don't look at what happened with the Time as a break up, but a bust up -by Prince.

.

I have no doubt that if Prince did not fire JimmyJam & Terry Lewis, that the Time:Morris Day Jimmy Jam Terry Lewis Monte Moore Jellybean Johnson Jesse Johnson & Jerome Benton, would have continued as a band, toured, done other videos, award shows(performances) and a heavier promotion of Ice Cream Castles.

could be, people have said it was like ripping the heart out of the band. I've read, don't know how true it is, that Prince only "fired" them in jest and didn't really expect them to actually leave for good, i think they were even on payroll for awhile after they left. It worked out for Jam and Lewis, couldn't have worked out any better for them.

PeteSilas said:

PeteSilas said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Actually I don't look at what happened with the Time as a break up, but a bust up -by Prince.

.

I have no doubt that if Prince did not fire JimmyJam & Terry Lewis, that the Time:Morris Day Jimmy Jam Terry Lewis Monte Moore Jellybean Johnson Jesse Johnson & Jerome Benton, would have continued as a band, toured, done other videos, award shows(performances) and a heavier promotion of Ice Cream Castles.

could be, people have said it was like ripping the heart out of the band. I've read, don't know how true it is, that Prince only "fired" them in jest and didn't really expect them to actually leave for good, i think they were even on payroll for awhile after they left. It worked out for Jam and Lewis, couldn't have worked out any better for them.

Yeah, Morris did talk about what it was like when Prince made that decision(decision Prince denied in 1990)
.
The whole Time band actually began falling away after that, when Monte realized Morris was done, he quit, and I believe Jellybean as well. I don't remember much about what Jerome thought concerning leaving, and of course Jesse wanted to headline the band.

.

It does seem Prince was playing a cruel joke, or realized he made a bad decision, because he had Jellybean go to Jimmy & Terry and tell them Jimmy could come back but not Terry.

an interesting sidenote, back when i was still mailing out my cd's to record companies, i sent one to jam and lewis, they were the only ones to reply with a rejection notice. My album was full of the minneapolis sound but.., it wasn't commercial lyrically, it was about civil revolt and what have you, could see why they wouldn't want that.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Actually I don't look at what happened with the Time as a break up, but a bust up -by Prince.

.

I have no doubt that if Prince did not fire JimmyJam & Terry Lewis, that the Time:Morris Day Jimmy Jam Terry Lewis Monte Moore Jellybean Johnson Jesse Johnson & Jerome Benton, would have continued as a band, toured, done other videos, award shows(performances) and a heavier promotion of Ice Cream Castles.

I think you're right.Jam and Lewis have said that they never wanted to leave The Time.They really wanted to stay and keep it going,but at the same time,they wanted the freedom to write and produce for others.I've always said that Prince should have given them that freedom and utilized their talent at Paisley Park Records (which could have been the Motown of the 80s).

...

[Edited 1/23/18 13:45pm]

PeteSilas said:

MotownSubdivision said:

The album peaked at #24 on the pop charts and it's highest-scoring single ("Jungle Love") just made the Top 20.

Obviously the album wasn't going to have the runaway success that Purple Rain enjoyed but it feels as though Ice Cream Castle underachieved. That said, the album was successful on the black charts (peaking at a much higher #3 with "Ice Cream Castles" and "Jungle Love" hitting #11 and #6, respectively) which was always the Time's core audience but am I the only one who feels that it should've had more crossover appeal?

i loved the album, i think it was about as good, maybe not quite as good as the debut but close. Probably Morris' drug problems and the Time's internecine issues had something to do with it. I do remember Jungle Love being a huge hit, Ice Cream Castles was one that I could have seen crossing over better with it's less funky sound. The band was done by the end of the filming for Purple Rain so there wasn't really any way to push anything. Most people say Morris' drug habits were the culprit, Prince has said that Jesse Johnson wanted to be a star (which was true) some people blamed Prince for the breakup which he denied, later he seems to have been relieved by them falling apart because he considered them real competition. I've heard something about jellbean Johnson having a near fight with Prince too, no one liked him back then but it does not sound like he was at fault for the band falling apart at that point, aside from the fact that he yanked jimmy and terry, (which he later denied doing and he seemed to mean as just a ploy to scare them but it backfired and they really left).

It wasn't drugs, it wasn't who was the better musician -- it all boiled down to control. Ice Cream Castle failed because The Time broke up before the record was released. As members of The Time realized they'd always be stuck being one of Prince's marrionette's with no creative input, they left. Therefore, no promotion, no Purple Rain tour, no nothing.

Morris, Jessie, Jimmy, Terry, and Moir all could've continued to toe the company line as they did for a few years and ride the wave of fame for a couple more years, but they wanted more control of The Time, and Prince didn't give control to anyone those days (which is rich considering how hands off he got a year later with Around the World). He was too insecure to see his friends possibly outshine him, even though the concept was his creation.

Should the LP have had more crossover success? Absolutely. Prince gave Ice Cream Castle a high-gloss sheen on that thing -- nothing like the gritty, raw production the band's first two records had. He was, no doubt, tayloring it for new, incoming Purple Rain fans. It was primed for success, but even as great as it was, no one was going to buy St. Paul as the new lead singer of The Time (the idea was bandied about).

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Actually I don't look at what happened with the Time as a break up, but a bust up -by Prince.

.

I have no doubt that if Prince did not fire JimmyJam & Terry Lewis, that the Time:Morris Day Jimmy Jam Terry Lewis Monte Moore Jellybean Johnson Jesse Johnson & Jerome Benton, would have continued as a band, toured, done other videos, award shows(performances) and a heavier promotion of Ice Cream Castles.

I think you're right.Jam and Lewis have said that they never wanted to leave The Time.They really wanted to stay and keep it going,but at the same time,they wanted the freedom to write and produce for others.I've always said that Prince should have given them that freedom and utilized their talent at Paisley Park Records (which could have been the Motown of the 80s).

...

[Edited 1/23/18 13:45pm]

Yep, and that was some much needed $ that they were not getting via Prince, but they all seemed to love performing as the Time despite the $

.

I totally agree. Within that camp between 1980-1987 He had the full arsenal of people to take Paisley Park to the next level.

OldFriends4Sale said:

SoulAlive said:

I think you're right.Jam and Lewis have said that they never wanted to leave The Time.They really wanted to stay and keep it going,but at the same time,they wanted the freedom to write and produce for others.I've always said that Prince should have given them that freedom and utilized their talent at Paisley Park Records (which could have been the Motown of the 80s).

...

[Edited 1/23/18 13:45pm]

Yep, and that was some much needed $ that they were not getting via Prince, but they all seemed to love performing as the Time despite the $

.

I totally agree. Within that camp between 1980-1987 He had the full arsenal of people to take Paisley Park to the next level.

ego destroys as much as it creates, just think of how much more they could have done together if they knew how to work things out. Jam and Lewis were a more successful singles producer than prince was. Maybe Prince thought he could recreate things with anyone but really, the minneapolis sound only had a small window to flourish before it became kind of a niche. Honestly though, some of those guys in the time probably needed the structure prince gave them, jimmy has said as much in interviews and how much confidence it gave him to go through Prince's boot camp like rehearsals and demands. The Minneapolis/Motown comparisons mostly died out by the 90's because it never happened. I think Prince didn't want strong competition again also, i've read that he blocked Ingrid Chavez' album because he thought it would "change music".

PeteSilas said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yep, and that was some much needed $ that they were not getting via Prince, but they all seemed to love performing as the Time despite the $

.

I totally agree. Within that camp between 1980-1987 He had the full arsenal of people to take Paisley Park to the next level.

ego destroys as much as it creates, just think of how much more they could have done together if they knew how to work things out. Jam and Lewis were a more successful singles producer than prince was. Maybe Prince thought he could recreate things with anyone but really, the minneapolis sound only had a small window to flourish before it became kind of a niche. Honestly though, some of those guys in the time probably needed the structure prince gave them, jimmy has said as much in interviews and how much confidence it gave him to go through Prince's boot camp like rehearsals and demands. The Minneapolis/Motown comparisons mostly died out by the 90's because it never happened. I think Prince didn't want strong competition again also, i've read that he blocked Ingrid Chavez' album because he thought it would "change music".

If Prince had utliized the talents of Jam and Lewis,his other proteges could have gotten some major hit singles.For example,imagine Jill Jones getting a hot song like "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" or The Family getting a song like "Human".Of course,Prince would have had to put his ego aside,lol.

laurarichardson said:

Genesia said:

Because who wants to spend ten bucks on an album that only has four songs on it?

I did and so did about 500,000 other people since it went Gold. This was a very popular RnB album and never really had a chance on the pop chart. Maybe some of you are too young to know this but no pop station is playing "If The Kid Can't Make You Come" or My Drawers"

RnB stations were not playing If the Kid Can't Make You Come either...

.

My Drawers a rock out number could easily have been played on other stations, I don't know of RnB stations playing that one either. I've only heard Ice Creams Castles Tricky Jungle Love & the Bird

.

My Drawers as a song was flat, like it was missing something like Let's Go Crazy. I would have loved to hear a full band recording on that one. That might have made the difference.

.

Like the Apollonia 6 album Prince wasn't 'investing' a lot into them for obvious reasons.

i always loved my drawers, thought it was fonkay!!

PeteSilas said:

i always loved my drawers, thought it was fonkay!!

I enjoyed the album. I can still remember listening to the tape on my walkman lol

I like the song, but over the years I wish there was a little more meat to it

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

i always loved my drawers, thought it was fonkay!!

I enjoyed the album. I can still remember listening to the tape on my walkman lol

I like the song, but over the years I wish there was a little more meat to it

minneapolis sound at it's best was sparse, simple, catchy riffs, rock guitar, funky bass and sexy lyrics.

PeteSilas said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I enjoyed the album. I can still remember listening to the tape on my walkman lol

I like the song, but over the years I wish there was a little more meat to it

minneapolis sound at it's best was sparse, simple, catchy riffs, rock guitar, funky bass and sexy lyrics.

yeah, but My Drawrs is missing something that 777-9311 and Let's Go Crazy had

I'm also thinking the V6 Sex Shooter vs A6 Sex Shooter

Is My Drawers a song the Time performed often?

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

minneapolis sound at it's best was sparse, simple, catchy riffs, rock guitar, funky bass and sexy lyrics.

yeah, but My Drawrs is missing something that 777-9311 and Let's Go Crazy had

I'm also thinking the V6 Sex Shooter vs A6 Sex Shooter

Is My Drawers a song the Time performed often?

i guess not, but i liked it.

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

minneapolis sound at it's best was sparse, simple, catchy riffs, rock guitar, funky bass and sexy lyrics.

yeah, but My Drawrs is missing something that 777-9311 and Let's Go Crazy had

I'm also thinking the V6 Sex Shooter vs A6 Sex Shooter

Is My Drawers a song the Time performed often?

Its not in the core setlist, but its in there when they play the extended rock one. The best shows for me were always when they played My Drawers along with Skillet and Blondie.

also, it's interesing but I think amongst musicians and funk bands, the time may have had more of an influence than Prince did. The day prince died, I saw Mark Cardenas (former time member) in a band who commemorated Prince by playing only one (Purple Rain) of his songs and the rest were time songs with the leader explaining "Prince wrote all of their music anyway".

Genesia said:

laurarichardson said:

I did and so did about 500,000 other people since it went Gold. This was a very popular RnB album and never really had a chance on the pop chart. Maybe some of you are too young to know this but no pop station is playing "If The Kid Can't Make You Come" or My Drawers"

"Some of you are too young to know"? Thanks, Laura - but I'm plenty old enough to know. I still have my original vinyl purchased in 1984.

The OP asked a question that called for speculation. So I speculated.

Thanks for your two-bit opinion on my answer.

( she cant help it. but they are FACTS! )

Zannaloaf said:

Genesia said:

"Some of you are too young to know"? Thanks, Laura - but I'm plenty old enough to know. I still have my original vinyl purchased in 1984.

The OP asked a question that called for speculation. So I speculated.

Thanks for your two-bit opinion on my answer.

( she cant help it. but they are FACTS! )

The world according to laurarichardson.

Prince wanted the Morris Day penned song Party Up and offered to put a band together for Morris Day in exchange. The Time was the result and often performed so well that prince was afraid to follow them on his own tour. Prince did not let the Time perform in certain cities for that reason. On one occasion a snow storm prevented Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis from getting to a gig on time. Prince fired them both. Morris was pissed. This was supposed to be Morris band. From that point forward Morris barely showed up for gigs and did not rehearse and was absolutely disgusted by the lame ass chumps Prince got to replace Jimmy and Terry. Morris barely made it through filming the movie and finishing the Ice Cream castles album. Morris promptly quit the time after production wrapped up. Things were so bad with Morris and Prince that Prince did not even send Morris tickets for the premier of Purple Rain, which Morris was most certainly a highlight of. At that point Prince dumped the concept of promoting and touring with the Time. Unfortunately the break up of the Time results directly from a cold ego driven decision by Prince and a refusal to consider Morris and that the band was in fact his. While Prince certainly helped write and record the Time material, Morris was just as much a part of creating that music. Morris was treated as tho he had no say when in fact it was his band, not prince band. Pure Prince Power Trip. Ice Cream Castles is not the best album ever but considering the success of purple rain, had the Time been included in all the hype and promo it most certainly would have sold a lot more. Jungle Love and the Bird where top notch songs worthy of being hits.

yeah,the firing of Jam and Lewis was the last straw.For Morris and Jesse,the band just wasn't the same after that.The original members had developed an amazing chemistry together.

Genesia said:

Zannaloaf said:

( she cant help it. but they are FACTS! )

The world according to laurarichardson.

Back to the topic, I was talking to a friend about ICC. They so matter-of-factly said, "Maybe Prince didn't want to give Morris anymore money for his cocaine addiction, so he put shitty songs on there."

I mean, it's not true, but... :::spittake:::

BEAUGARDE said:

Ice Cream Castles is my favorite Time song & the album is just as good as their other albums & Prince was a co-writer for Jungle Love, he wrote the lyrics & added his stank on like he did with Mountains. Jungle Love could easily been replaced bi Jerk Out or Chocolate

Jungle Love is a fun song, but it isn't on the same level of Mountains or Jerk Out (Jerk Out as a 1982 What Time Is It? outtake) for some reason they didn't want it for the lyrical content.

Chocolate is an Ice Cream Castles outtake too

.

Jungle Love cannot cannot come close to The Walk 777-9311 IDon'tWant2LeaveU Wild n Loose Gigolos Get Lonely 2

.

The 2nd album just has flow. Ice Cream Castles doesn't. It has potential, just not focused.

I want an instrumental of Chili Sauce.

I actually enjoy and have always enjoyed If the Kid Can't Make U Come... but it never made sense the use of The Kid (ie Prince in Purple Rain) and Morris Day singing it

some songs from the Ice Cream Castles Sessions

Proposition #17 ie Chili Sauce

Old & Ignorant

Ice Cream Castles

My Drawers

Chili Sauce

If the Kid Can't Make U Come

Jungle Love

The Bird
Tricky

My Summertime Thang

Chocolate

My Love Belongs 2 U
Velvet Kitty Katt

I still want to know who is Sharon Hughes

OldFriends4Sale said:

Jungle Love cannot cannot come close to The Walk ,777-9311, IDon'tWant2LeaveU, Wild n Loose Gigolos Get Lonely 2

The 2nd album just has flow. Ice Cream Castles doesn't.

Exactly.What Time Is It? is a funk masterpiece.Every song on there is superb.

"Gigolos Get Lonely Too" is an excellent slow jam.Such a shame that Prince didn't give them a great slow jam for Ice Cream Castles.I think "If The Kid Can't Make You Come" is a silly,overlong song that goes nowhere.