laurarichardson said:

purplegirl00 said:

I guess I'm in a small group of people who think the majority of songs for the movie were about Vanity- including WDC. It was said that one reason Vanity left Prince was because he was still seeing Susan. Also, the timing of WDC fits the time frame of when Vanity left. Susan was still around awhile longer after Vanity left, even being part of Apollonia 6. I could be wrong but it doesn't make sense to be about her.

The story which I believe was in DMSR was that Susan decided to leave after the PR project was completed and promotion for A6 was done which she did do.

Susan supposely let Prince know this as the filiming was getting underway and he then went and wrote the song.

From timing perspective, it doesn't make sense, but it could be true. I would be interested in knowing more about Susan's story from her point of view.

purplegirl00 said:

laurarichardson said:

purplegirl00 said:

From timing perspective, it doesn't make sense, but it could be true. I would be interested in knowing more about Susan's story from her point of view.

If she let him know even before the 1999 tour was even over it would make sense.

And that could certainly be the case. The 1999 tour was '82/'83 and Apollonia 6 disbanded in '85 so if what Per Nilsen said is true, then Susan gave a super advanced notice of 2-3 years that she was leaving. It just seems odd that Prince would write a song so intense and passionate about someone leaving him in the future (Susan) vs. someone who already left (Vanity). Again, only my observation and may mean nothing.

purplegirl00 said:

laurarichardson said:

purplegirl00 said: If she let him know even before the 1999 tour was even over it would make sense.

And that could certainly be the case. The 1999 tour was '82/'83 and Apollonia 6 disbanded in '85 so if what Per Nilsen said is true, then Susan gave a super advanced notice of 2-3 years that she was leaving. It just seems odd that Prince would write a song so intense and passionate about someone leaving him in the future (Susan) vs. someone who already left (Vanity). Again, only my observation and may mean nothing.

He was walking around the 1999 tour with a notebook with songs and notes for the movie could have written the words at that time.

All these crazy rumors about these songs and who they were written about i'm convinced that,in 1983/84,Prince was mainly focused on making his first movie.Thus,he was writing songs for that.The songs were intended strictly for the movie,not necessarily about any women that he was seeing in real life.Didn't he publicly state that,contrary to popular belief,"The Beautiful Ones" was not written about Susannah? He said that it was written for the movie!

Its quite possible that Lisa is mistaken in regards who Wonderful Ass is about and had no idea about its history, its also possible that when he resurrected the song for her to add her vocals he told her it was about his current girlfriend so she assumed it was a new track (although more likely he didn't tell her a thing and she's guessing, more than one person has said he didn't like saying who or what tracks were about).

I completely believe Jill Jones that he wrote it for Vanity but I see no reason to assume W&L are going around with devil horns trying to change history because they're so maniacally evil and have a personal vendetta to erase Vanity from Prince's history. Prince wrote so much stuff even he mentioned that he had trouble remembering actually recording some of it.

Also it's a song about a woman's ass FFS, get a bit of perspective people.

[Edited 6/26/17 16:46pm]

SoulAlive said:

All these crazy rumors about these songs and who they were written about i'm convinced that,in 1983/84,Prince was mainly focused on making his first movie.Thus,he was writing songs for that.The songs were intended strictly for the movie,not necessarily about any women that he was seeing in real life.Didn't he publicly state that,contrary to popular belief,"The Beautiful Ones" was not written about Susannah? He said that it was written for the movie!

He said it was about Vanity and Jill Jones is telling us the Melvoin's are full of bull. Looking at the liner notes apparently know one else did anything on this record but them.

jaawwnn said:

Its quite possible that Lisa is mistaken in regards who Wonderful Ass is about and had no idea about its history, its also possible that when he resurrected the song for her to add her vocals he told her it was about his current girlfriend so she assumed it was a new track (although more likely he didn't tell her a thing and she's guessing, more than one person has said he didn't like saying who or what tracks were about).

I completely believe Jill Jones that he wrote it for Vanity but I see no reason to assume W&L are going around with devil horns trying to change history because they're so maniacally evil and have a personal vendetta to erase Vanity from Prince's history. Prince wrote so much stuff even he mentioned that he had trouble remembering actually recording some of it.

Also it's a song about a woman's ass FFS, get a bit of perspective people.

[Edited 6/26/17 16:46pm]

They are wrong about too many things and they must think no one else would remember.

laurarichardson said:

They are wrong about too many things and they must think no one else would remember.

I dunno, they're not scholars of this crap like we are. Someone asks them their memories of a time and they say it like they remember, they're not googling previous interviews with old band members to compare notes. The problem isn't them it's that writers aren't asking the likes of Jill Jones what she remembers as well!

laurarichardson said:

SoulAlive said:

All these crazy rumors about these songs and who they were written about i'm convinced that,in 1983/84,Prince was mainly focused on making his first movie.Thus,he was writing songs for that.The songs were intended strictly for the movie,not necessarily about any women that he was seeing in real life.Didn't he publicly state that,contrary to popular belief,"The Beautiful Ones" was not written about Susannah? He said that it was written for the movie!

He said it was about Vanity and Jill Jones is telling us the Melvoin's are full of bull. Looking at the liner notes apparently know one else did anything on this record but them.

Prince said twice itonce in 2015 and he said it again in the P&M concerts it was for Vanity and Luvgirl explained this nicely in this thread.

Here is what LuvGirl shared about The Beautiful Ones- Prince noted it was for Vanity.

luvgirl said:

* Oldfriends4sale said:

I side with Prince as well about the song being about Vanity's character. But I also believe there is truth 2 the Susannah part. That was the news since 1984/85. And Prince never refuted it, until he was upset with her. This remember is the man that 'never looks back' and doesn't understand why people have to celebrate anniversaries and such. Also the man that said the Time was Morris's band and Morris fired Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis... It must be the truth right? Since Prince said it. . I was listening 2 When Doves Cry... and this is another example. Now for the sake of the movie Prince wrote the song and obviously the inspirations would be ? the love interest for the movie(written on March 1st 1984) so would that be Vanity or Apollonia? Was Vanity gone at this time? Manic Monday was recorded with Prince & Apollonia 6 in February, and the other inspirations would be the Father and the Mother and possibly the Revolution, maybe even Billy. But again word out of the camp is that Susan Moonsie(Vanity/Apollonia 6) was the real life inspiration. . Can it be both? Of course.

*Oldfriends4sale said:

Prince during the Piano & Mic tour talked about Vanity (after she passed away). At this time he was upset at Susannah over something during a phone conversation the previous year. And part of me feels he talking about the song the Beautiful Ones in an interview prior was getting back at her. . After his mortality check, he calls Wendy and asks 4 Susannah's phone number to talk. This was all around the time he was reconnecting with so many people.

* Before I go on, I hope it's okay to add my thoughts to this debate without anyone taking it personal. It's only a debate about the inspiration of a song. Not that serious in the scheme of things... OFFS, I read both articles you referred to in some of your post, the one where Susannah and Prince were in a dispute over "The Family" and it got to the point where words were exchanged regarding Prince asking if she needed to go attend to her children. I also read the other article, where Wendy said he called Susannah six months prior to his death. http://www.billboard.com/...al-moments The call was seemingly to make amends over their dispute as he was reaching out to everyone from his past at that time. A call six month prior to his death would have taken place in October, but that interview took place after that call, closer to January. December 22, 2015. He would have already made amends with Susannah by the time that interview took place. The theory that he was lying about the song being inspired by Vanity because he was angry with Susannah doesn't add up in this time frame. In any case, give or take a few more months, they surely would have made amends by February 15, 2016 at the night of Vanity's passing - but on that night, February 15 2016 in the US - Feb 16 2016 in Melbourne Australia, at his tribute show to Vanity, Prince would again revisit the idea that "The Beautiful Ones" was inspired by Vanity. In anticipation of singing "The Beautiful Ones" (while in mourning) and well after he'd had time to reconcile with Susannah, Prince relayed, "She knows about this one" initiating that this was one particular song Vanity knew she'd inspired. Apart from that Ebony article, this statement dominates anything ever said about who inspired that song because Prince was caught off guard that night. This was an impromptu tribute that he had no idea he'd ever have to eulogize. He was in mourning and at his most vulnerable. Further, even if he was still angry with Susannah at this time, to imply that Vanity inspired a song that she hadn't, would have tainted her eulogy on a night that was meant to honor her. That statement alone was strong enough implication that Vanity inspired the song, but coupled with what he said in that article, it's unavoidable closure. As you've said OFFS, "The Beautiful Ones" wasn't originally in the movie when Vanity's character was relevant. But conveniently after Vanity left in August, Prince wrote the lyrics "The beautiful ones, you always seem to loose" and recorded it in September. Those specific lyrics were not intended for character's justification. Those lyrics were the annotation of a painful real life breakup (as this very article the OP posted states.) That's what Prince was trying to relay in that Ebony article - Vanity had left, so those lyrics were inspired due to her departure from his life... (not the character she would have played) the character analogy comes into fruition when he says, "If they look at it, it’s very obvious. Do you want him or do you want me, that was written for that scene in Purple Rain specifically. Where Morris Day would be sitting with Apollonia, and there’d be this back and forth." Susannah herself admitted that this was something Prince did often when she said "He wasn’t always specifically writing about what he was going through, because he also had to be consistent with the Purple Rain storyline" That's exactly what Prince did, and exactly what he was trying to relay. I agree with this article. I think it was spot on when it stated that the song blends the painful real-life split with Vanity and the invented story arc for Apollonia. [Edited 6/25/17 9:04am]

For the sake of clarity Vashtix, the Ebony interview with Prince took place in August, it says so in the interview itself.

I'm not arguing about who the song is about btw, if it's Vanity that's cool by me, I love Vanity.

Vashtix said:

laurarichardson said:

He said it was about Vanity and Jill Jones is telling us the Melvoin's are full of bull. Looking at the liner notes apparently know one else did anything on this record but them.

Prince said twice itonce in 2015 and he said it again in the P&M concerts it was for Vanity and Luvgirl explained this nicely in this thread.

jaawwnn said:

For the sake of clarity Vashtix, the Ebony interview with Prince took place in August, it says so in the interview itself.

I'm not arguing about who the song is about btw, if it's Vanity that's cool by me, I love Vanity.

The interview could have taken place anytime in my opinion.

.

What I glean is the revelation about the origins of the sond The Beautiful Ones. If Prince had not came out in the Piano and Mic Tour and specifically said again the song was for Vanity. The man knew his song, his art.

.

I am not feeling what the problem is for the song being for Vanity - I am sure that is not the only song for Vanity that others have claimed-

Vanity is transitioned and Prince 8 weeks later so together they are in the afterworld making new music in their new dimension.

.

We are here discussing something about these 2 beautiful people who left the earth likethis as far as time- it just is crazy- he let us know it was for her.

Vashtix said:

jaawwnn said:

For the sake of clarity Vashtix, the Ebony interview with Prince took place in August, it says so in the interview itself.

I'm not arguing about who the song is about btw, if it's Vanity that's cool by me, I love Vanity.

The interview could have taken place anytime in my opinion.

.

What I glean is the revelation about the origins of the sond The Beautiful Ones. If Prince had not came out in the Piano and Mic Tour and specifically said again the song was for Vanity. The man knew his song, his art.

.

I am not feeling what the problem is for the song being for Vanity - I am sure that is not the only song for Vanity that others have claimed-

Vanity is transitioned and Prince 8 weeks later so together they are in the afterworld making new music in their new dimension.

.

We are here discussing something about these 2 beautiful people who left the earth likethis as far as time- it just is crazy- he let us know it was for her.

You what is really interesting, is how no one in the Prince camp both past and present acknowledge what happened during those shows in Australia, and Prince's feeling towards Vanity's passing. Nor its it mentioned in any of their interviews

Goddess4Real said:

Vashtix said:

The interview could have taken place anytime in my opinion.

.

What I glean is the revelation about the origins of the sond The Beautiful Ones. If Prince had not came out in the Piano and Mic Tour and specifically said again the song was for Vanity. The man knew his song, his art.

.

I am not feeling what the problem is for the song being for Vanity - I am sure that is not the only song for Vanity that others have claimed-

Vanity is transitioned and Prince 8 weeks later so together they are in the afterworld making new music in their new dimension.

.

We are here discussing something about these 2 beautiful people who left the earth likethis as far as time- it just is crazy- he let us know it was for her.

You what is really interesting, is how no one in the Prince camp both past and present acknowledge what happened during those shows in Australia, and Prince's feeling towards Vanity's passing. Nor its it mentioned in any of their interviews

They cannot discuss it because it goes against the narrative built for decades. Prince myth busted.

Vashtix said:

Goddess4Real said:

You what is really interesting, is how no one in the Prince camp both past and present acknowledge what happened during those shows in Australia, and Prince's feeling towards Vanity's passing. Nor its it mentioned in any of their interviews

They cannot discuss it because it goes against the narrative built for decades. Prince myth busted.

Yuuuuup I bet had it been anyone else besides Vanity (eg. Susannah) they would be all over it like fried rice.....whatever

Vashtix said:

Goddess4Real said:

Vashtix said:

The interview could have taken place anytime in my opinion.

.

What I glean is the revelation about the origins of the sond The Beautiful Ones. If Prince had not came out in the Piano and Mic Tour and specifically said again the song was for Vanity. The man knew his song, his art.

.

I am not feeling what the problem is for the song being for Vanity - I am sure that is not the only song for Vanity that others have claimed-

Vanity is transitioned and Prince 8 weeks later so together they are in the afterworld making new music in their new dimension.

.

We are here discussing something about these 2 beautiful people who left the earth likethis as far as time- it just is crazy- he let us know it was for her.

You what is really interesting, is how no one in the Prince camp both past and present acknowledge what happened during those shows in Australia, and Prince's feeling towards Vanity's passing. Nor its it mentioned in any of their interviews

I don't get why people would?

If they were not there, and don't have the shows bootlegged as we do, how would they?

Surprisingly a lot of people don't have access to those shows.

luvgirl said:

Vashtix said:

The interview could have taken place anytime in my opinion.

.

What I glean is the revelation about the origins of the sond The Beautiful Ones. If Prince had not came out in the Piano and Mic Tour and specifically said again the song was for Vanity. The man knew his song, his art.

.

I am not feeling what the problem is for the song being for Vanity - I am sure that is not the only song for Vanity that others have claimed-

Vanity is transitioned and Prince 8 weeks later so together they are in the afterworld making new music in their new dimension.

.

We are here discussing something about these 2 beautiful people who left the earth likethis as far as time- it just is crazy- he let us know it was for her.

The pertinent point is, by the time of his tribute to Vanity he revisited the same sentiments from that interview about Vanity inspiring The Beautiful Ones. By then, he'd made amends with everyone including Susannah. The angry theory isn't justified. February 16, 2016 in Melbourne proves it. He wasn't lying due to vindictiveness, he was speaking from his heart on that night. As simple as that...

No the pertinent point is youz were making a big deal about the chronology of the dates and you were getting them wrong. If you're going to be a pedant at least put in the effort.

[Edited 6/26/17 21:13pm]

laurarichardson said:

jaawwnn said:

Its quite possible that Lisa is mistaken in regards who Wonderful Ass is about and had no idea about its history, its also possible that when he resurrected the song for her to add her vocals he told her it was about his current girlfriend so she assumed it was a new track (although more likely he didn't tell her a thing and she's guessing, more than one person has said he didn't like saying who or what tracks were about).

I completely believe Jill Jones that he wrote it for Vanity but I see no reason to assume W&L are going around with devil horns trying to change history because they're so maniacally evil and have a personal vendetta to erase Vanity from Prince's history. Prince wrote so much stuff even he mentioned that he had trouble remembering actually recording some of it.

Also it's a song about a woman's ass FFS, get a bit of perspective people.

[Edited 6/26/17 16:46pm]

They are wrong about too many things and they must think no one else would remember.

jaawwnn said:

Goddess4Real said:

Vashtix said:

The interview could have taken place anytime in my opinion.

.

What I glean is the revelation about the origins of the sond The Beautiful Ones. If Prince had not came out in the Piano and Mic Tour and specifically said again the song was for Vanity. The man knew his song, his art.

.

I am not feeling what the problem is for the song being for Vanity - I am sure that is not the only song for Vanity that others have claimed-

Vanity is transitioned and Prince 8 weeks later so together they are in the afterworld making new music in their new dimension.

.

We are here discussing something about these 2 beautiful people who left the earth likethis as far as time- it just is crazy- he let us know it was for her.

You what is really interesting, is how no one in the Prince camp both past and present acknowledge what happened during those shows in Australia, and Prince's feeling towards Vanity's passing. Nor its it mentioned in any of their interviews

Yeah, maybe Josh and Donna hated her as well

luvgirl said:

jaawwnn said: Lol Really? This was making a big deal about the dates? "A call six month prior to his death would have taken place in October, but that interview took place after that call, closer to January. December 22, 2015. He would have already made amends with Susannah by the time that interview took place. The theory that he was lying about the song being inspired by Vanity because he was angry with Susannah doesn't add up in this time frame. In any case, give or take a few more months, they surely would have made amends by February 15, 2016 at the night of Vanity's passing." Seems to me, you are the one making a big deal about the dates..

Yes, you working out the dates is you making a big deal in my book but whatever

[Edited 6/26/17 21:30pm]

jaawwnn said:

luvgirl said:

jaawwnn said:

Yes, you working out the dates is you making a big deal in my book but whatever

[Edited 6/26/17 21:30pm]

You working out me working out the dates, seems to me you are the one making a big deal, but whatever...

I'm but a humble factchecker employed by prince.org, don't make fun of my calling.

jaawwnn said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said: --Geez, he was not being paranoid he was being sarcastic because of her ridiculous comments. He had deals in place and who knows maybe we would have had some vault material on Tidal. Everybody was speculating on what to do with his property and speaking as if he was already dead. I am sure it pissed him off and I am glad he got his say.

geez it was paranoid. Susan Rogers wasn't going to do anything. But maybe he should have hired her to. Nothing legalized, no will. Susan Rogers is the one that started the Vault in the 80s, because she saw a need to protect the music.

He was responding to Susan Roger's comments on the BBC Hunting for Prince's Vault documentary a few months earlier.

.

He was speaking his mind in the Ebony interview but I recall you dismiss it because of the 'pain meds and possible alzheimer's'

Goddess4Real said:

Vashtix said:

They cannot discuss it because it goes against the narrative built for decades. Prince myth busted.

Yuuuuup I bet had it been anyone else besides Vanity (eg. Susannah) they would be all over it like fried rice.....whatever

At this point we have to acknowledge at least two people from the old Prince camp who have a vested interest in pushing themselves up and pushing Vanity down. No amount of evidence will change their narrative and some people on this board will be belive anything they have to say.

If you are going to actually say the creator of the music does not know who he created the music for you have serious issues.

dodger said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

geez it was paranoid. Susan Rogers wasn't going to do anything. But maybe he should have hired her to. Nothing legalized, no will. Susan Rogers is the one that started the Vault in the 80s, because she saw a need to protect the music.

He was responding to Susan Roger's comments on the BBC Hunting for Prince's Vault documentary a few months earlier.

.

He was speaking his mind in the Ebony interview but I recall you dismiss it because of the 'pain meds and possible alzheimer's'

I didn't like how it came across, and neither did Prince, which is why he had it immediately pulled.

Well at the time we did not know of the pain meds and possible early stages of alzheimers. At the time none of us would have fathomed that he would be dead either.

.

I know what he was responding too. Susan Rogers was not going to take over the Vault.

Goddess4Real said:

laurarichardson said:

They are wrong about too many things and they must think no one else would remember.

What does Laurarichardson know, I'm still waiting for the link he promised to post of Prince firing Miko because Miko was getting all the women