http://diffuser.fm/prince-the-beautiful-ones/

Prince’s Girlfriend Inspires ‘The Beautiful Ones,’ But Which One?: 365 Prince Songs in a Year

Read More: Prince's Girlfriend Inspi... in a Year |

Thanks for posting.

There will always be various camps for Prince women. Susan Rodgers, Alex Hahn, of course Wendy/Lisa are the Susannah camp- every song during that era per what they say was inspired by Susannah. I am waiting for them to say Purple Rain character Apples played was based on Susannah. Just saying.

There will be the Vanity camp- Prince said the song was for her, that fit the dynamic of them at that time. Prince explained it in that 2015 article about songs and finally how he felt about some things. Pretty much we know it was for Vanity. There are a few more to be about her too but I am not going to debate it.

These people have controlled the narrative when Prince was alive and he never debunked them til 2015 and then he was going to do his memoirs and he died. That is my regret is that he never finished his memoirs.

I agree, it's sad that he didn't finish the autobiography...but I'd still purchase what he wrote in a heartbeat.

Vashtix said:

Thanks for posting.

There will always be various camps for Prince women. Susan Rodgers, Alex Hahn, of course Wendy/Lisa are the Susannah camp- every song during that era per what they say was inspired by Susannah. I am waiting for them to say Purple Rain character Apples played was based on Susannah. Just saying.

There will be the Vanity camp- Prince said the song was for her, that fit the dynamic of them at that time. Prince explained it in that 2015 article about songs and finally how he felt about some things. Pretty much we know it was for Vanity. There are a few more to be about her too but I am not going to debate it.

These people have controlled the narrative when Prince was alive and he never debunked them til 2015 and then he was going to do his memoirs and he died. That is my regret is that he never finished his memoirs.

Thank you for posting this article Laura!

I still don't understand why there continues to be a debate about this song.

What is it that people don't get? Prince was clear, straight out of his mouth, what and who this song was about in 2015. No, let's believe everyone but the person who wrote the song.

purplegirl00 said:

Thank you for posting this article Laura!

I still don't understand why there continues to be a debate about this song.

What is it that people don't get? Prince was clear, straight out of his mouth, what and who this song was about in 2015. No, let's believe everyone but the person who wrote the song.

This is why there was/is a debate to begin with.
The word out of the camp at the time was always directed at Susannah, hearing Prince say it was about Vanity is a very new thing.

Electric Intercourse was the song performed @ the August 1983 Dance Benefit show.
Even though Prince had indirectly met Susannah, earlier the in the year at a party with Vanity, she was in the audience @ First Avenue that night. By this point Prince and Vanity were already rocky.

Susannah and Prince 'officially' encountered each other that night. Prince also learning that Quincy Jones was trying to get him to join him, Prince started trying to get her to join him.

Prince wrote the Beautiful Ones after the August 1983 Dance Benefit show Sept 20th 1983 and sent the song to Susannah to listen to.

.

Now of course we know Vanity was looking for a better move, and I don't know the time frame, but there was something about the Last Temptation of Christ and then she made a move to Berry Gordy and Motown ... mo money mo money. This were a bit turbulent between her and Prince right up to the abrut departure. Some say it was just that she had enough, she want more money 4 Purple Rain and Prince wouldn't budge, she was caught with Al Magnoli etc etc

.

So for the longest, since the 80s the story out of the camp was Susannah connected, not Vanity.
.
Now I personally feel it is somewhere inbetween or dually both.
.
Prince during the Piano & Mic tour talked about Vanity (after she passed away). At this time he was upset at Susannah over something during a phone conversation the previous year. And part of me feels he talking about the song the Beautiful Ones in an interview prior was getting back at her.
.
After his mortality check, he calls Wendy and asks 4 Susannah's phone number to talk. This was all around the time he was reconnecting with so many people.

.

If we leave the story of the Time(1990) and what really happened, acording to Prince "Remember the Time was Morris's band, I'm just playing the bad guy'. According to that interview, the last one I knew of Prince talking about what happened, Morris Day fired Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, not Prince.

.

I just believe, the Beautiful Ones story is probably a mesh of 2 stories, both probably true.

“I can’t say that the song was exactly our story, but he wrote it during that time,” Melvoin says in Let’s Go Crazy: Prince and the Making of ‘Purple Rain.’ “He wasn’t always specifically writing about what he was going through, because he also had to be consistent with the Purple Rain storyline, but he was drawing from things that had happened in his life.”

I think she might be saying that the other songs are definitively about her. But that the Beautiful Ones is the one she wasn't sure of because there was a lot of emotions and circumstances (related to the movie) mixed together in making it. Prince may have been a bit unclear about that one in 83. But he made it clear later. Plus, the song is about a woman breaking his heart, and being fickle. Weren't he and Susannah at the beginning of their relationship when that song was written. . I am not sure if telling the truth is necessarily being petty considering the song is kind of about a breakup. Now, if Prince said Nothing Compares to U wasn't about Susannah than that would be petty.

As for Susan, I believe she has been proven wrong on a few things so maybe she just forgot or assumed because of the time frame. Prince description, for once..LOL, just makes the most sense.

Also, are you implying that Prince wanted to call Susannah on the night of the first overdose?? Is that what Mortality check means?

One last thing, when did Denise start getting sick? Is it possible that she was sick when Prince did that Essense interview and he just had her on his mind so wanted to clarify that the song was about her.

He later began a relationship with Susannah Melvoin, and she ultimately became something like a muse. Melvoin inspired “Nothing Compares 2 U,” later a smash hit for Sinead O’Connor; “Big Tall Wall,” from the shelved Dream Factory album; the similarly unreleased “Wally“; and perhaps “Condition of the Heart” from Around the World in a Day. Susannah was also deeply involved in the creation of Sign O’ the Times (the co-written “Starfish and Coffee,” “Forever in My Life,” “If I Was Your Girlfriend“).

“We were very attached,” Susannah said in Let’s Go Crazy, “and he spoke a lot through music. He would come and play me something, and I knew perfectly well it was about me.”

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplegirl00 said:

Thank you for posting this article Laura!

I still don't understand why there continues to be a debate about this song.

What is it that people don't get? Prince was clear, straight out of his mouth, what and who this song was about in 2015. No, let's believe everyone but the person who wrote the song.

This is why there was/is a debate to begin with.
The word out of the camp at the time was always directed at Susannah, hearing Prince say it was about Vanity is a very new thing.

Electric Intercourse was the song performed @ the August 1983 Dance Benefit show.
Even though Prince had indirectly met Susannah, earlier the in the year at a party with Vanity, she was in the audience @ First Avenue that night. By this point Prince and Vanity were already rocky.

Susannah and Prince 'officially' encountered each other that night. Prince also learning that Quincy Jones was trying to get him to join him, Prince started trying to get her to join him.

Prince wrote the Beautiful Ones after the August 1983 Dance Benefit show Sept 20th 1983 and sent the song to Susannah to listen to.

.

Now of course we know Vanity was looking for a better move, and I don't know the time frame, but there was something about the Last Temptation of Christ and then she made a move to Berry Gordy and Motown ... mo money mo money. This were a bit turbulent between her and Prince right up to the abrut departure. Some say it was just that she had enough, she want more money 4 Purple Rain and Prince wouldn't budge, she was caught with Al Magnoli etc etc

.

So for the longest, since the 80s the story out of the camp was Susannah connected, not Vanity.
.
Now I personally feel it is somewhere inbetween or dually both.
.
Prince during the Piano & Mic tour talked about Vanity (after she passed away). At this time he was upset at Susannah over something during a phone conversation the previous year. And part of me feels he talking about the song the Beautiful Ones in an interview prior was getting back at her.
.
After his mortality check, he calls Wendy and asks 4 Susannah's phone number to talk. This was all around the time he was reconnecting with so many people.

.

If we leave the story of the Time(1990) and what really happened, acording to Prince "Remember the Time was Morris's band, I'm just playing the bad guy'. According to that interview, the last one I knew of Prince talking about what happened, Morris Day fired Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, not Prince.

.

I just believe, the Beautiful Ones story is probably a mesh of 2 stories, both probably true.

[Edited 6/22/17 19:04pm]

[Edited 6/22/17 19:06pm]

[Edited 6/22/17 19:41pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplegirl00 said:

Thank you for posting this article Laura!

I still don't understand why there continues to be a debate about this song.

What is it that people don't get? Prince was clear, straight out of his mouth, what and who this song was about in 2015. No, let's believe everyone but the person who wrote the song.

This is why there was/is a debate to begin with.
The word out of the camp at the time was always directed at Susannah, hearing Prince say it was about Vanity is a very new thing.

Electric Intercourse was the song performed @ the August 1983 Dance Benefit show.
Even though Prince had indirectly met Susannah, earlier the in the year at a party with Vanity, she was in the audience @ First Avenue that night. By this point Prince and Vanity were already rocky.

Susannah and Prince 'officially' encountered each other that night. Prince also learning that Quincy Jones was trying to get him to join him, Prince started trying to get her to join him.

Prince wrote the Beautiful Ones after the August 1983 Dance Benefit show Sept 20th 1983 and sent the song to Susannah to listen to.

.

Now of course we know Vanity was looking for a better move, and I don't know the time frame, but there was something about the Last Temptation of Christ and then she made a move to Berry Gordy and Motown ... mo money mo money. This were a bit turbulent between her and Prince right up to the abrut departure. Some say it was just that she had enough, she want more money 4 Purple Rain and Prince wouldn't budge, she was caught with Al Magnoli etc etc

.

So for the longest, since the 80s the story out of the camp was Susannah connected, not Vanity.
.
Now I personally feel it is somewhere inbetween or dually both.
.
Prince during the Piano & Mic tour talked about Vanity (after she passed away). At this time he was upset at Susannah over something during a phone conversation the previous year. And part of me feels he talking about the song the Beautiful Ones in an interview prior was getting back at her.
.
After his mortality check, he calls Wendy and asks 4 Susannah's phone number to talk. This was all around the time he was reconnecting with so many people.

.

If we leave the story of the Time(1990) and what really happened, acording to Prince "Remember the Time was Morris's band, I'm just playing the bad guy'. According to that interview, the last one I knew of Prince talking about what happened, Morris Day fired Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, not Prince.

.

I just believe, the Beautiful Ones story is probably a mesh of 2 stories, both probably true.

As I said earlier there will always be camp Susannah and camp Vanity but The Beautiful Ones is as Prince said it was - he was not a 20 something or for that matter 30 something foolish man. In 2015 Prince was a mature, seasoned man of 50 something and for whatever reason he started getting really real. His lyrics too- (The Breakdown, Home) if you will accept that.

.

Prince knew as a mature, seasoned 50 something, what he was saying in that 2015 interview. He was tired of people saying things he did not mean and respectfully I got the feeling when he approached subject of the The Beautiful Ones. He said what , when, who and why it was about Vanity.

.

I am not discounting Susannah or what she shared with Prince but Prince spoke of who The Beautiful Ones was for twice within months and he was not messing around in Australia when he sang The Beautiful Ones. It was real and not a - get back, clap back, revenge.

.

The thing is even when Prince said what the song was- it is disputed. It is as if no one wants to validate this man outside of their own mental construct of what they thought of him. He was a grown azz man. He knew what went down in his own mind for a song. Much respect to the Melvoins, Alex Hahn, Lisa, Susan Rodgers and all the Susannah crew but this one song - can belong to Vanity and they can go on and do what they have done all these years and give Susannah whatever else they want and need to give.

.

It came as a suprise to many that Prince said much of what he said in that 2015 article quoted in this thread and the Piano and Mic concerts when things got real.

I realized that much of what I thought was real due to Alex Hahn, the Melvoins, Lisa and Susan Rodgers was their story, their construct but they did not know all of Prince. He was complex and clearly him sending a song to listen to did not mean- I wrote it for you. After 30 plus years I am sure it came as a zinger but it is as I believe Prince said it is- TBO is for Vanity . He was losing her to Motown i.e. Apples to Morris- same/same.

.

As I said before I am waiting for them to say PR part Apples played was really about Susannah. I am serious and please do not take offense .I respect the Melvoins and Susannah and Lisa and Susan Rodgers and their place in Prince's life but this one they need to let go. Let it be. Let it stand as Prince said months prior to his death and give enough respect as a man to know his own mind.

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplegirl00 said:

Thank you for posting this article Laura!

I still don't understand why there continues to be a debate about this song.

What is it that people don't get? Prince was clear, straight out of his mouth, what and who this song was about in 2015. No, let's believe everyone but the person who wrote the song.

This is why there was/is a debate to begin with.
The word out of the camp at the time was always directed at Susannah, hearing Prince say it was about Vanity is a very new thing.

Electric Intercourse was the song performed @ the August 1983 Dance Benefit show.
Even though Prince had indirectly met Susannah, earlier the in the year at a party with Vanity, she was in the audience @ First Avenue that night. By this point Prince and Vanity were already rocky.

Susannah and Prince 'officially' encountered each other that night. Prince also learning that Quincy Jones was trying to get him to join him, Prince started trying to get her to join him.

Prince wrote the Beautiful Ones after the August 1983 Dance Benefit show Sept 20th 1983 and sent the song to Susannah to listen to.

.

Now of course we know Vanity was looking for a better move, and I don't know the time frame, but there was something about the Last Temptation of Christ and then she made a move to Berry Gordy and Motown ... mo money mo money. This were a bit turbulent between her and Prince right up to the abrut departure. Some say it was just that she had enough, she want more money 4 Purple Rain and Prince wouldn't budge, she was caught with Al Magnoli etc etc

.

So for the longest, since the 80s the story out of the camp was Susannah connected, not Vanity.
.
Now I personally feel it is somewhere inbetween or dually both.
.
Prince during the Piano & Mic tour talked about Vanity (after she passed away). At this time he was upset at Susannah over something during a phone conversation the previous year. And part of me feels he talking about the song the Beautiful Ones in an interview prior was getting back at her.
.
After his mortality check, he calls Wendy and asks 4 Susannah's phone number to talk. This was all around the time he was reconnecting with so many people.

.

If we leave the story of the Time(1990) and what really happened, acording to Prince "Remember the Time was Morris's band, I'm just playing the bad guy'. According to that interview, the last one I knew of Prince talking about what happened, Morris Day fired Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, not Prince.

.

I just believe, the Beautiful Ones story is probably a mesh of 2 stories, both probably true.

Are you suggesting that Electric Intercourse for Susannah? If so, I do not agree. There is an audio clip floating around of the rehearsals for this the August '83 Benefit Show and in them, you can hear very clearly, Prince calling out "Vanity" right before he launches into another rehearsal/ practice of "Electric Intercourse".

Who said he sent TBOs to Susannah to listen to?

Vanity said in her 1988 Playboy interview that she used money as an excuse to "escape". She asked for more money on purpose, knowing he could not pay her that and then she could have a "reason" to leave him. Who caught her with Magnoli?

So you think that Prince saying that TBOs being partially about Vanity was revenge against Susannah for upsetting him over the phone? What was that phone conversation and where did that information come from? What about Prince calling out "Denise, Denise, Denise.." in the middle of TBOs at the P & M concert tribute to her?

Who said he called Wendy asking for Susannah's number when he had this mortality check?

With all due respect, you are welcomed to believe whatever you see fit, but if Susan Rogers, Wendy, Lisa, or Susannah are sources of this information, I find it highly suspect and unbelievable.

Prince said what he said in 2015 and it fits what was going on with his life back around the Purple Rain era. Even if Prince hadn't said it was partially about the movie and Vanity's departure, Susannah was new to the scene at the time and TBOs does not compute to be about/for her.

To be honest I don't see a Susannah camp and a Vanity camp, I see a Vanity camp and then everyone else who isn't too pushed either way.

[Edited 6/22/17 23:22pm]

anangellooksdown said:

Thanks for the article, Laura.
Prince was clear in 2015 about who the song is for:

1) Partly for the fictional (the scene/script/) ("Do you want him or do you want me?"); and
2) Partly for Vanity ("The beautiful ones you always seem to lose.")

Two inspirations.

I had thought before that Susan Rogers seemed "Susannah-heavy", but now I think she might be an actual Susannah "stan".



Also, I read or saw an interview recently with someone who mentioned that "IIWYG" was about the close twin sister relationship between Wendy & Susannah.

I wonder for how many more years will we be dissecting Prince's intentions and feelings? Yes, I wish we had an autobiography too. But maybe not having it is the way it's supposed to be.

Vashtix said:

As I said earlier there will always be camp Susannah and camp Vanity but The Beautiful Ones is as Prince said it was - he was not a 20 something or for that matter 30 something foolish man. In 2015 Prince was a mature, seasoned man of 50 something and for whatever reason he started getting really real. His lyrics too- (The Breakdown, Home) if you will accept that.

.

Prince knew as a mature, seasoned 50 something, what he was saying in that 2015 interview. He was tired of people saying things he did not mean and respectfully I got the feeling when he approached subject of the The Beautiful Ones. He said what , when, who and why it was about Vanity.

.

I am not discounting Susannah or what she shared with Prince but Prince spoke of who The Beautiful Ones was for twice within months and he was not messing around in Australia when he sang The Beautiful Ones. It was real and not a - get back, clap back, revenge.

.

The thing is even when Prince said what the song was- it is disputed. It is as if no one wants to validate this man outside of their own mental construct of what they thought of him. He was a grown azz man. He knew what went down in his own mind for a song. Much respect to the Melvoins, Alex Hahn, Lisa, Susan Rodgers and all the Susannah crew but this one song - can belong to Vanity and they can go on and do what they have done all these years and give Susannah whatever else they want and need to give.

.

It came as a suprise to many that Prince said much of what he said in that 2015 article quoted in this thread and the Piano and Mic concerts when things got real.

I realized that much of what I thought was real due to Alex Hahn, the Melvoins, Lisa and Susan Rodgers was their story, their construct but they did not know all of Prince. He was complex and clearly him sending a song to listen to did not mean- I wrote it for you. After 30 plus years I am sure it came as a zinger but it is as I believe Prince said it is- TBO is for Vanity . He was losing her to Motown i.e. Apples to Morris- same/same.

.

As I said before I am waiting for them to say PR part Apples played was really about Susannah. I am serious and please do not take offense .I respect the Melvoins and Susannah and Lisa and Susan Rodgers and their place in Prince's life but this one they need to let go. Let it be. Let it stand as Prince said months prior to his death and give enough respect as a man to know his own mind.

.

.

A thought...

There really shouldn't be a camp where Denise is concerned. They had a relationship that evolved and took on many forms over the years.

Furthermore, Denise wasn't just in contact with only Prince over the years but also with the "other women."

His significance to her is overwhelmingly evident in her past and in her everyday life.

Her significance to him I thought was evident to all, but if it isn't I feel no need to agrue or debate anything I share.

That being said.

.

Back in 1999, I recall reading a letter to DeBorah, dated December 1983, that she had tucked inside the cover of a book of photographs from that same holiday season. The letter was from her older sister, the photos were of that sister enjoying the holiday season with their mother, grandmother and others including their sister Denise/Vanity and one of Denise’s friends. She had made written description on the backs of most, if not all, of the photos and within the body of letter she also wrote about Denise’s frame of mind during the visit. I don’t remember her exact words in the letter, but they had something to do with her mood being down and her still not being over him.

.

I'm still honeymooning in the Yucatan and I will not be calling DeBorah for the letter, I did bring my computer, but I have poor connection and very little time while touring the Mayan ruins.

.

With regard to Purple Rain Denise writes “Most of the songs written spelled out our strange relationship.”

.

I wonder how many other women back then could also relate to his lyrics at that time?

So why even argue the issue of inspiration as if it were a singularly unique experience.

From a poet’s point of view, I can tell you, it isn’t.

.

.

Why ask why?

Do we really need to know the set of circumstances

that happened in a particular order

to move that moment to the next.

Does it now make some difference to the audience,

to the Artist, to the Muse and or to how we now listen the music.

If it does, does it mean that you’re a poet, a romantic, a fanatic

or just curious?

.

His muses have been real people with real feelings.

His snippets of "their lives" that have sadly now come to fully encapsulated them.

Theses incomplete mosaics tied to and driving feelings without the benefit of the original “why.”

Her-story has been lyrically literally expose to the world…

and told only from his (history) side.

.

Poetically Speaking...

What many take for granted and don’t keep in mind

is that The Artist has taken one frame of one moment in time.

That it is also another’s mused memory set on loop that they’ve been forced to re-live, to rewind…

And that those who insistent upon knowing the reason and intent of an abstract

should instead be focus on what is derived from the divining the divine.

And that it is possible to do so.

.

Toban said:

Vashtix said:

As I said earlier there will always be camp Susannah and camp Vanity but The Beautiful Ones is as Prince said it was - he was not a 20 something or for that matter 30 something foolish man. In 2015 Prince was a mature, seasoned man of 50 something and for whatever reason he started getting really real. His lyrics too- (The Breakdown, Home) if you will accept that.

.

Prince knew as a mature, seasoned 50 something, what he was saying in that 2015 interview. He was tired of people saying things he did not mean and respectfully I got the feeling when he approached subject of the The Beautiful Ones. He said what , when, who and why it was about Vanity.

.

I am not discounting Susannah or what she shared with Prince but Prince spoke of who The Beautiful Ones was for twice within months and he was not messing around in Australia when he sang The Beautiful Ones. It was real and not a - get back, clap back, revenge.

.

The thing is even when Prince said what the song was- it is disputed. It is as if no one wants to validate this man outside of their own mental construct of what they thought of him. He was a grown azz man. He knew what went down in his own mind for a song. Much respect to the Melvoins, Alex Hahn, Lisa, Susan Rodgers and all the Susannah crew but this one song - can belong to Vanity and they can go on and do what they have done all these years and give Susannah whatever else they want and need to give.

.

It came as a suprise to many that Prince said much of what he said in that 2015 article quoted in this thread and the Piano and Mic concerts when things got real.

I realized that much of what I thought was real due to Alex Hahn, the Melvoins, Lisa and Susan Rodgers was their story, their construct but they did not know all of Prince. He was complex and clearly him sending a song to listen to did not mean- I wrote it for you. After 30 plus years I am sure it came as a zinger but it is as I believe Prince said it is- TBO is for Vanity . He was losing her to Motown i.e. Apples to Morris- same/same.

.

As I said before I am waiting for them to say PR part Apples played was really about Susannah. I am serious and please do not take offense .I respect the Melvoins and Susannah and Lisa and Susan Rodgers and their place in Prince's life but this one they need to let go. Let it be. Let it stand as Prince said months prior to his death and give enough respect as a man to know his own mind.

.

.

A thought...

There really shouldn't be a camp where Denise is concerned. They had a relationship that evolved and took on many forms over the years.

Furthermore, Denise wasn't just in contact with only Prince over the years but also with the "other women."

His significance to her is overwhelmingly evident in her past and in her everyday life.

Her significance to him I thought was evident to all, but if it isn't I feel no need to agrue or debate anything I share.

That being said.

.

Back in 1999, I recall reading a letter to DeBorah, dated December 1983, that she had tucked inside the cover of a book of photographs from that same holiday season. The letter was from her older sister, the photos were of that sister enjoying the holiday season with their mother, grandmother and others including their sister Denise/Vanity and one of Denise’s friends. She had made written description on the backs of most, if not all, of the photos and within the body of letter she also wrote about Denise’s frame of mind during the visit. I don’t remember her exact words in the letter, but they had something to do with her mood being down and her still not being over him.

.

I'm still honeymooning in the Yucatan and I will not be calling DeBorah for the letter, I did bring my computer, but I have poor connection and very little time while touring the Mayan ruins.

.

With regard to Purple Rain Denise writes “Most of the songs written spelled out our strange relationship.”

.

I wonder how many other women back then could also relate to his lyrics at that time?

So why even argue the issue of inspiration as if it were a singularly unique experience.

From a poet’s point of view, I can tell you, it isn’t.

.

.

Why ask why?

Do we really need to know the set of circumstances

that happened in a particular order

to move that moment to the next.

Does it now make some difference to the audience,

to the Artist, to the Muse and or to how we now listen the music.

If it does, does it mean that you’re a poet, a romantic, a fanatic

or just curious?

.

His muses have been real people with real feelings.

His snippets of "their lives" that have sadly now come to fully encapsulated them.

Theses incomplete mosaics tied to and driving feelings without the benefit of the original “why.”

Her-story has been lyrically literally expose to the world…

and told only from his (history) side.

.

Poetically Speaking...

What many take for granted and don’t keep in mind

is that The Artist has taken one frame of one moment in time.

That it is also another’s mused memory set on loop that they’ve been forced to re-live, to rewind…

And that those who insistent upon knowing the reason and intent of an abstract

should instead be focus on what is derived from the divining the divine.

And that it is possible to do so.

.

Thanks for your input. After listen to Possessed, Katrina's Paper Doll and We Can F**k. I believe these songs are about Denise. Not sure why anyone would think Prince was writing about Susanna before he even met her is beyond me.

laurarichardson said:

Toban said:

.

.

A thought...

There really shouldn't be a camp where Denise is concerned. They had a relationship that evolved and took on many forms over the years.

Furthermore, Denise wasn't just in contact with only Prince over the years but also with the "other women."

His significance to her is overwhelmingly evident in her past and in her everyday life.

Her significance to him I thought was evident to all, but if it isn't I feel no need to agrue or debate anything I share.

That being said.

.

Back in 1999, I recall reading a letter to DeBorah, dated December 1983, that she had tucked inside the cover of a book of photographs from that same holiday season. The letter was from her older sister, the photos were of that sister enjoying the holiday season with their mother, grandmother and others including their sister Denise/Vanity and one of Denise’s friends. She had made written description on the backs of most, if not all, of the photos and within the body of letter she also wrote about Denise’s frame of mind during the visit. I don’t remember her exact words in the letter, but they had something to do with her mood being down and her still not being over him.

.

I'm still honeymooning in the Yucatan and I will not be calling DeBorah for the letter, I did bring my computer, but I have poor connection and very little time while touring the Mayan ruins.

.

With regard to Purple Rain Denise writes “Most of the songs written spelled out our strange relationship.”

.

I wonder how many other women back then could also relate to his lyrics at that time?

So why even argue the issue of inspiration as if it were a singularly unique experience.

From a poet’s point of view, I can tell you, it isn’t.

.

.

Why ask why?

Do we really need to know the set of circumstances

that happened in a particular order

to move that moment to the next.

Does it now make some difference to the audience,

to the Artist, to the Muse and or to how we now listen the music.

If it does, does it mean that you’re a poet, a romantic, a fanatic

or just curious?

.

His muses have been real people with real feelings.

His snippets of "their lives" that have sadly now come to fully encapsulated them.

Theses incomplete mosaics tied to and driving feelings without the benefit of the original “why.”

Her-story has been lyrically literally expose to the world…

and told only from his (history) side.

.

Poetically Speaking...

What many take for granted and don’t keep in mind

is that The Artist has taken one frame of one moment in time.

That it is also another’s mused memory set on loop that they’ve been forced to re-live, to rewind…

And that those who insistent upon knowing the reason and intent of an abstract

should instead be focus on what is derived from the divining the divine.

And that it is possible to do so.

.

Thanks for your input. After listen to Possessed, Katrina's Paper Doll and We Can F**k. I believe these songs are about Denise. Not sure why anyone would think Prince was writing about Susanna before he even met her is beyond me.

Most people didn't know about Katrina's Paper Dolls (nor the lyrics) so why would anyone think they were about Susannah. I've never heard anyone connect Susannah to any of those songs you mentioned.

The only thing with We Can Fuck is that that session was a Prince David Coleman Lisa Coleman Susannah Melvoin Wendy Melvoin thing happening.

purplegirl00 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

This is why there was/is a debate to begin with.
The word out of the camp at the time was always directed at Susannah, hearing Prince say it was about Vanity is a very new thing.

Electric Intercourse was the song performed @ the August 1983 Dance Benefit show.
Even though Prince had indirectly met Susannah, earlier the in the year at a party with Vanity, she was in the audience @ First Avenue that night. By this point Prince and Vanity were already rocky.

Susannah and Prince 'officially' encountered each other that night. Prince also learning that Quincy Jones was trying to get him to join him, Prince started trying to get her to join him.

Prince wrote the Beautiful Ones after the August 1983 Dance Benefit show Sept 20th 1983 and sent the song to Susannah to listen to.

.

Now of course we know Vanity was looking for a better move, and I don't know the time frame, but there was something about the Last Temptation of Christ and then she made a move to Berry Gordy and Motown ... mo money mo money. This were a bit turbulent between her and Prince right up to the abrut departure. Some say it was just that she had enough, she want more money 4 Purple Rain and Prince wouldn't budge, she was caught with Al Magnoli etc etc

.

So for the longest, since the 80s the story out of the camp was Susannah connected, not Vanity.
.
Now I personally feel it is somewhere inbetween or dually both.
.
Prince during the Piano & Mic tour talked about Vanity (after she passed away). At this time he was upset at Susannah over something during a phone conversation the previous year. And part of me feels he talking about the song the Beautiful Ones in an interview prior was getting back at her.
.
After his mortality check, he calls Wendy and asks 4 Susannah's phone number to talk. This was all around the time he was reconnecting with so many people.

.

If we leave the story of the Time(1990) and what really happened, acording to Prince "Remember the Time was Morris's band, I'm just playing the bad guy'. According to that interview, the last one I knew of Prince talking about what happened, Morris Day fired Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, not Prince.

.

I just believe, the Beautiful Ones story is probably a mesh of 2 stories, both probably true.

Are you suggesting that Electric Intercourse for Susannah? If so, I do not agree. There is an audio clip floating around of the rehearsals for this the August '83 Benefit Show and in them, you can hear very clearly, Prince calling out "Vanity" right before he launches into another rehearsal/ practice of "Electric Intercourse".

Who said he sent TBOs to Susannah to listen to?

Vanity said in her 1988 Playboy interview that she used money as an excuse to "escape". She asked for more money on purpose, knowing he could not pay her that and then she could have a "reason" to leave him. Who caught her with Magnoli?

So you think that Prince saying that TBOs being partially about Vanity was revenge against Susannah for upsetting him over the phone? What was that phone conversation and where did that information come from? What about Prince calling out "Denise, Denise, Denise.." in the middle of TBOs at the P & M concert tribute to her?

Who said he called Wendy asking for Susannah's number when he had this mortality check?

With all due respect, you are welcomed to believe whatever you see fit, but if Susan Rogers, Wendy, Lisa, or Susannah are sources of this information, I find it highly suspect and unbelievable.

Prince said what he said in 2015 and it fits what was going on with his life back around the Purple Rain era. Even if Prince hadn't said it was partially about the movie and Vanity's departure, Susannah was new to the scene at the time and TBOs does not compute to be about/for her.

no Electric Intercourse was written before he technically met Susannah. I said after the song was performed live @ the First Avenue Dance Benefit, which is where he was formally introduced to her, he then went and recorded the Beautiful Ones and removed G-Spot & Electric Intercourse from the movie performance score. Those 2 songs were back to back in the original script with Vanity.

.

Those were/are a bunch of reasons people were fully sure on on why Vanity was out of the camp.
There was strong speculation she cheated with someone to get back at Prince. I don't know if it was just a combination of things, Prince/Money/Addiction etc I still believe the song in part was about Vanities character too though. I don't think it is a long stretch for a song to have a few inspirations.

.

Susannah talked about it sometime last year. http://blog.thecurrent.or...nd-coffee/

.

I think this is where she talked about it. I believe Prince didn't have her full attention, the kids were calling for her in the background or crying or something, and she tried to explain to Prince she was listening to him. He got upset and said she was arrogant or something.

.

Wendy said it, he was talking to her, and asked to talk to Susannah

.

Well I still said that Susannah Melvoin was in the picture at the time, she was at that 1983 show and Prince was trying to convince her to join him not Berry Gordy at the time. New to the scene has nothing to do with it.

.

Susannah Melvoin:

When I auditioned for Quincy Jones, I didn't audition in front of him. I sent him a tape of an Aretha Franklin track (“Until You Come Back to Me”) that I had recorded with a friend of mine in his studio. I was just 19, maybe not even 19 yet, and I got the call. (Jones) called my father, who told me “You got the gig!” and I was like “What?!” There were only six of us who made it out of a 1,000 people who auditioned and I was the only white girl. I never felt more proud in my entire life. I was like “Yes, yes, yes! I am a sister!”

I started working for Prince when I was 19. He had been spending a lot of time at my house, because, Wendy, Lisa and I were roommates. After high school, we always lived together. Lisa had gotten the gig with Prince and, when he would come into town, he would stay with us.

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplegirl00 said:

Are you suggesting that Electric Intercourse for Susannah? If so, I do not agree. There is an audio clip floating around of the rehearsals for this the August '83 Benefit Show and in them, you can hear very clearly, Prince calling out "Vanity" right before he launches into another rehearsal/ practice of "Electric Intercourse".

Who said he sent TBOs to Susannah to listen to?

Vanity said in her 1988 Playboy interview that she used money as an excuse to "escape". She asked for more money on purpose, knowing he could not pay her that and then she could have a "reason" to leave him. Who caught her with Magnoli?

So you think that Prince saying that TBOs being partially about Vanity was revenge against Susannah for upsetting him over the phone? What was that phone conversation and where did that information come from? What about Prince calling out "Denise, Denise, Denise.." in the middle of TBOs at the P & M concert tribute to her?

Who said he called Wendy asking for Susannah's number when he had this mortality check?

With all due respect, you are welcomed to believe whatever you see fit, but if Susan Rogers, Wendy, Lisa, or Susannah are sources of this information, I find it highly suspect and unbelievable.

Prince said what he said in 2015 and it fits what was going on with his life back around the Purple Rain era. Even if Prince hadn't said it was partially about the movie and Vanity's departure, Susannah was new to the scene at the time and TBOs does not compute to be about/for her.

no Electric Intercourse was written before he technically met Susannah. I said after the song was performed live @ the First Avenue Dance Benefit, which is where he was formally introduced to her, he then went and recorded the Beautiful Ones and removed G-Spot & Electric Intercourse from the movie performance score. Those 2 songs were back to back in the original script with Vanity.

.

Those were/are a bunch of reasons people were fully sure on on why Vanity was out of the camp.
There was strong speculation she cheated with someone to get back at Prince. I don't know if it was just a combination of things, Prince/Money/Addiction etc I still believe the song in part was about Vanities character too though. I don't think it is a long stretch for a song to have a few inspirations.

.

Susannah talked about it sometime last year. http://blog.thecurrent.or...nd-coffee/

.

I think this is where she talked about it. I believe Prince didn't have her full attention, the kids were calling for her in the background or crying or something, and she tried to explain to Prince she was listening to him. He got upset and said she was arrogant or something.

.

Wendy said it, he was talking to her, and asked to talk to Susannah

.

Well I still said that Susannah Melvoin was in the picture at the time, she was at that 1983 show and Prince was trying to convince her to join him not Berry Gordy at the time. New to the scene has nothing to do with it.

.

Susannah Melvoin:

When I auditioned for Quincy Jones, I didn't audition in front of him. I sent him a tape of an Aretha Franklin track (“Until You Come Back to Me”) that I had recorded with a friend of mine in his studio. I was just 19, maybe not even 19 yet, and I got the call. (Jones) called my father, who told me “You got the gig!” and I was like “What?!” There were only six of us who made it out of a 1,000 people who auditioned and I was the only white girl. I never felt more proud in my entire life. I was like “Yes, yes, yes! I am a sister!”

(Jones) had known my father for years...They knew each other in the early 1950s and then they started playing together in the 1960s and 1970s in Los Angeles. They had always been close.

There was a vocal contractor that worked with (Jones) who was at my father's house and that's how I found out about it. I had just graduated from high school and I was visiting my dad. He said, “Oh by the way, Tom is actually looking for vocalists for this a cappella group that (Jones) is putting together. I think you should try out for it.” I said okay and that's how that happened. It came from my father getting the call and also Tom being there talking on behalf of (Jones). It was kind of like a family thing...

I started working for Prince when I was 19. He had been spending a lot of time at my house, because, Wendy, Lisa and I were roommates. After high school, we always lived together. Lisa had gotten the gig with Prince and, when he would come into town, he would stay with us.

I was really young, right out of high school, and I was working for David Geffen as the receptionist at (Geffen Records). I had just done the audition for (Jones) and Wendy wanted to play Prince my demo of the Aretha Franklin track. All I could say was “Please don't play it for him. Oh my God!”

I went into my bedroom. It was 500 square feet, so, the bedroom wasn't very far from the kitchen. They were all sitting at the kitchen table listening to my track. Then the next thing I knew, Prince said “Why don't you come work with us? You should be with our group of people and you know this is where you belong.” I said " You know you're absolutely right.”

So, Prince and I had a long conversation at that point and I said, “You know I'm working with (Jones) right now. It was hard to get this this gig.”

The next thing I knew, I'm calling (Jones) in the middle of the night. I said, “I just can't sleep, I don't know what to do. I was offered a gig working with Prince. I kind of want to do it, my sister's there, my best friend who I grew up with (is there)...”

Long story short, he said, “How could you not want to do that? Go, baby. If you can't sleep at night and that's where you need to be, you need to be there. Don't think twice about it.” So, I got his graces.

From then on, I started working (for Prince), singing backup and being called in to sing on this or that track. I was singing on a couple tracks for the Apollonia 6 record when they were filming “Purple Rain.”

Thanks for sharing the information; the narrative of Prince for all these years has basically come others who are in the camp championing Susannah including Susannah herself.

However when Prince finally spoke about The Beautiful Ones and mentioned it twice prior to his death stating it was for Vanity yet peeps are refuting it over something Susannah has said or something written in books.

.

Prince spoke his truth and Susannah's name was not mentioned for The Beautiful Ones. I am going by that. All the storires and antedotes and books that stated all kinds of things about Prince and Susannah originated due to stories like the one you shared from Susannah.

.

I am by no means bashing Susannahor her place in his life nor am I an expert on Prince. I respect your knowledge about Prince and appreciate you sharing the story from Susannah however prior to death Prince finally after all these years spoke about TBOs and since Prince was the author and the song is his intergrity I have to side with Prince no matter what - I believe Prince knew best.

[Edited 6/24/17 1:37am]

[Edited 6/24/17 1:56am]

Vashtix said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

no Electric Intercourse was written before he technically met Susannah. I said after the song was performed live @ the First Avenue Dance Benefit, which is where he was formally introduced to her, he then went and recorded the Beautiful Ones and removed G-Spot & Electric Intercourse from the movie performance score. Those 2 songs were back to back in the original script with Vanity.

.

Those were/are a bunch of reasons people were fully sure on on why Vanity was out of the camp.
There was strong speculation she cheated with someone to get back at Prince. I don't know if it was just a combination of things, Prince/Money/Addiction etc I still believe the song in part was about Vanities character too though. I don't think it is a long stretch for a song to have a few inspirations.

.

Susannah talked about it sometime last year. http://blog.thecurrent.or...nd-coffee/

.

I think this is where she talked about it. I believe Prince didn't have her full attention, the kids were calling for her in the background or crying or something, and she tried to explain to Prince she was listening to him. He got upset and said she was arrogant or something.

.

Wendy said it, he was talking to her, and asked to talk to Susannah

.

Well I still said that Susannah Melvoin was in the picture at the time, she was at that 1983 show and Prince was trying to convince her to join him not Berry Gordy at the time. New to the scene has nothing to do with it.

.

Susannah Melvoin:

When I auditioned for Quincy Jones, I didn't audition in front of him. I sent him a tape of an Aretha Franklin track (“Until You Come Back to Me”) that I had recorded with a friend of mine in his studio. I was just 19, maybe not even 19 yet, and I got the call. (Jones) called my father, who told me “You got the gig!” and I was like “What?!” There were only six of us who made it out of a 1,000 people who auditioned and I was the only white girl. I never felt more proud in my entire life. I was like “Yes, yes, yes! I am a sister!”

(Jones) had known my father for years...They knew each other in the early 1950s and then they started playing together in the 1960s and 1970s in Los Angeles. They had always been close.

There was a vocal contractor that worked with (Jones) who was at my father's house and that's how I found out about it. I had just graduated from high school and I was visiting my dad. He said, “Oh by the way, Tom is actually looking for vocalists for this a cappella group that (Jones) is putting together. I think you should try out for it.” I said okay and that's how that happened. It came from my father getting the call and also Tom being there talking on behalf of (Jones). It was kind of like a family thing...

I started working for Prince when I was 19. He had been spending a lot of time at my house, because, Wendy, Lisa and I were roommates. After high school, we always lived together. Lisa had gotten the gig with Prince and, when he would come into town, he would stay with us.

I was really young, right out of high school, and I was working for David Geffen as the receptionist at (Geffen Records). I had just done the audition for (Jones) and Wendy wanted to play Prince my demo of the Aretha Franklin track. All I could say was “Please don't play it for him. Oh my God!”

I went into my bedroom. It was 500 square feet, so, the bedroom wasn't very far from the kitchen. They were all sitting at the kitchen table listening to my track. Then the next thing I knew, Prince said “Why don't you come work with us? You should be with our group of people and you know this is where you belong.” I said " You know you're absolutely right.”

So, Prince and I had a long conversation at that point and I said, “You know I'm working with (Jones) right now. It was hard to get this this gig.”

The next thing I knew, I'm calling (Jones) in the middle of the night. I said, “I just can't sleep, I don't know what to do. I was offered a gig working with Prince. I kind of want to do it, my sister's there, my best friend who I grew up with (is there)...”

Long story short, he said, “How could you not want to do that? Go, baby. If you can't sleep at night and that's where you need to be, you need to be there. Don't think twice about it.” So, I got his graces.

From then on, I started working (for Prince), singing backup and being called in to sing on this or that track. I was singing on a couple tracks for the Apollonia 6 record when they were filming “Purple Rain.”

Thanks for sharing the information; the narrative of Prince for all these years has basically come others who are in the camp championing Susannah including Susannah herself.

However when Prince finally spoke about The Beautiful Ones and mentioned it twice prior to his death stating it was for Vanity yet peeps are refuting it over something Susannah has said or something written in books.

.

Prince spoke his truth and Susannah's name was not mentioned for The Beautiful Ones. I am going by that. All the storires and antedotes and books that stated all kinds of things about Prince and Susannah originated due to stories like the one you shared from Susannah.

.

I am by no means bashing Susannahor her place in his life nor am I an expert on Prince. I respect your knowledge about Prince and appreciate you sharing the story from Susannah however prior to death Prince finally after all these years spoke about TBOs and since Prince was the author and the song is his intergrity I have to side with Prince no matter what - I believe Prince knew best.

[Edited 6/24/17 1:37am]

[Edited 6/24/17 1:56am]

I side with Prince as well about the song being about Vanity's character. But I also believe there is truth 2 the Susannah part. That was the news since 1984/85. And Prince never refuted it, until he was upset with her. This remember is the man that 'never looks back' and doesn't understand why people have to celebrate anniversaries and such. Also the man that said the Time was Morris's band and Morris fired Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis... It must be the truth right? Since Prince said it.

.

I was listening 2 When Doves Cry... and this is another example. Now for the sake of the movie Prince wrote the song and obviously the inspirations would be ? the love interest for the movie(written on March 1st 1984) so would that be Vanity or Apollonia? Was Vanity gone at this time? Manic Monday was recorded with Prince & Apollonia 6 in February, and the other inspirations would be the Father and the Mother and possibly the Revolution, maybe even Billy. But again word out of the camp is that Susan Moonsie(Vanity/Apollonia 6) was the real life inspiration.
.
Can it be both? Of course.

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:

Thanks for your input. After listen to Possessed, Katrina's Paper Doll and We Can F**k. I believe these songs are about Denise. Not sure why anyone would think Prince was writing about Susanna before he even met her is beyond me.

Most people didn't know about Katrina's Paper Dolls (nor the lyrics) so why would anyone think they were about Susannah. I've never heard anyone connect Susannah to any of those songs you mentioned.

The only thing with We Can Fuck is that that session was a Prince David Coleman Lisa Coleman Susannah Melvoin Wendy Melvoin thing happening.

Of the people you mention only David Coleman can be heard on the official PR deluxe version. He plays the 5 or 6 notes on the oud repeated throughout the song. The Melvoins had nothing to do with the song. Nor did Lisa it seems. It's Jill Jones on backing vocals.

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Most people didn't know about Katrina's Paper Dolls (nor the lyrics) so why would anyone think they were about Susannah. I've never heard anyone connect Susannah to any of those songs you mentioned.

The only thing with We Can Fuck is that that session was a Prince David Coleman Lisa Coleman Susannah Melvoin Wendy Melvoin thing happening.

Of the people you mention only David Coleman can be heard on the official PR deluxe version. He plays the 5 or 6 notes on the oud repeated throughout the song. The Melvoins had nothing to do with the song. Nor did Lisa it seems. It's Jill Jones on backing vocals.

according to this Lisa Coleman is on it too

http://www.startribune.com/revolution-keyboardist-shares-untold-stories-from-prince-s-soon-to-be-reissued-purple-rain/428738003/

“We Can [Bleep]”

This song grew out of a Los Angeles jam session involving Coleman’s brother, David Coleman, playing an oud, a Middle Eastern stringed instrument.

“This was when we were moving onto [the next album] ‘Around the World in a Day.’ Prince was really taken with David at the time. My brother was very schooled in Arabic and Middle Eastern music. Prince was piqued by someone who knew part of a language he wasn’t familiar with.

“David’s groove brought out Prince’s favorite thing — funky. He thought Middle Eastern music was very sexy. He married a belly dancer after that.

“The words were pretty silly. Prince was telling me to sing like Bette Davis.”

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplegirl00 said:

Are you suggesting that Electric Intercourse for Susannah? If so, I do not agree. There is an audio clip floating around of the rehearsals for this the August '83 Benefit Show and in them, you can hear very clearly, Prince calling out "Vanity" right before he launches into another rehearsal/ practice of "Electric Intercourse".

Who said he sent TBOs to Susannah to listen to?

Vanity said in her 1988 Playboy interview that she used money as an excuse to "escape". She asked for more money on purpose, knowing he could not pay her that and then she could have a "reason" to leave him. Who caught her with Magnoli?

So you think that Prince saying that TBOs being partially about Vanity was revenge against Susannah for upsetting him over the phone? What was that phone conversation and where did that information come from? What about Prince calling out "Denise, Denise, Denise.." in the middle of TBOs at the P & M concert tribute to her?

Who said he called Wendy asking for Susannah's number when he had this mortality check?

With all due respect, you are welcomed to believe whatever you see fit, but if Susan Rogers, Wendy, Lisa, or Susannah are sources of this information, I find it highly suspect and unbelievable.

Prince said what he said in 2015 and it fits what was going on with his life back around the Purple Rain era. Even if Prince hadn't said it was partially about the movie and Vanity's departure, Susannah was new to the scene at the time and TBOs does not compute to be about/for her.

no Electric Intercourse was written before he technically met Susannah. I said after the song was performed live @ the First Avenue Dance Benefit, which is where he was formally introduced to her, he then went and recorded the Beautiful Ones and removed G-Spot & Electric Intercourse from the movie performance score. Those 2 songs were back to back in the original script with Vanity.

.

Those were/are a bunch of reasons people were fully sure on on why Vanity was out of the camp.
There was strong speculation she cheated with someone to get back at Prince. I don't know if it was just a combination of things, Prince/Money/Addiction etc I still believe the song in part was about Vanities character too though. I don't think it is a long stretch for a song to have a few inspirations.

.

Susannah talked about it sometime last year. http://blog.thecurrent.or...nd-coffee/

.

I think this is where she talked about it. I believe Prince didn't have her full attention, the kids were calling for her in the background or crying or something, and she tried to explain to Prince she was listening to him. He got upset and said she was arrogant or something.

.

Wendy said it, he was talking to her, and asked to talk to Susannah

.

Well I still said that Susannah Melvoin was in the picture at the time, she was at that 1983 show and Prince was trying to convince her to join him not Berry Gordy at the time. New to the scene has nothing to do with it.

.

Susannah Melvoin:

When I auditioned for Quincy Jones, I didn't audition in front of him. I sent him a tape of an Aretha Franklin track (“Until You Come Back to Me”) that I had recorded with a friend of mine in his studio. I was just 19, maybe not even 19 yet, and I got the call. (Jones) called my father, who told me “You got the gig!” and I was like “What?!” There were only six of us who made it out of a 1,000 people who auditioned and I was the only white girl. I never felt more proud in my entire life. I was like “Yes, yes, yes! I am a sister!”

(Jones) had known my father for years...They knew each other in the early 1950s and then they started playing together in the 1960s and 1970s in Los Angeles. They had always been close.

There was a vocal contractor that worked with (Jones) who was at my father's house and that's how I found out about it. I had just graduated from high school and I was visiting my dad. He said, “Oh by the way, Tom is actually looking for vocalists for this a cappella group that (Jones) is putting together. I think you should try out for it.” I said okay and that's how that happened. It came from my father getting the call and also Tom being there talking on behalf of (Jones). It was kind of like a family thing...

I started working for Prince when I was 19. He had been spending a lot of time at my house, because, Wendy, Lisa and I were roommates. After high school, we always lived together. Lisa had gotten the gig with Prince and, when he would come into town, he would stay with us.

I was really young, right out of high school, and I was working for David Geffen as the receptionist at (Geffen Records). I had just done the audition for (Jones) and Wendy wanted to play Prince my demo of the Aretha Franklin track. All I could say was “Please don't play it for him. Oh my God!”

I went into my bedroom. It was 500 square feet, so, the bedroom wasn't very far from the kitchen. They were all sitting at the kitchen table listening to my track. Then the next thing I knew, Prince said “Why don't you come work with us? You should be with our group of people and you know this is where you belong.” I said " You know you're absolutely right.”

So, Prince and I had a long conversation at that point and I said, “You know I'm working with (Jones) right now. It was hard to get this this gig.”

The next thing I knew, I'm calling (Jones) in the middle of the night. I said, “I just can't sleep, I don't know what to do. I was offered a gig working with Prince. I kind of want to do it, my sister's there, my best friend who I grew up with (is there)...”

Long story short, he said, “How could you not want to do that? Go, baby. If you can't sleep at night and that's where you need to be, you need to be there. Don't think twice about it.” So, I got his graces.

From then on, I started working (for Prince), singing backup and being called in to sing on this or that track. I was singing on a couple tracks for the Apollonia 6 record when they were filming “Purple Rain.”

Thanks for the information. I get what you are saying and I respect your opinion. While the events you described above about the official meeting of Susannah could be true, I do not believe any of it had to do with his scrapping EI and replacing it with TBOs. From what I read, Prince dropped EI because it was for Vanity since she was supposed to play the female lead and was now gone. The song was too personal to have in the movie and direct it at Apollonia's character. He needed to have a ballad in the movie and therefore, he wrote and recorded TBOs. He could commercialize, fit it to the movie, and still partially direct it at Vanity for her departure. While other songs may have been inspired by Susannah, I do not think TBOs was one of them.

Prince was not always truthful with the media back in the 80's and maybe even into 90's. At times, he was even silent. He didn’t want his personal stuff out there.

I don't know about any contacts or relationship he had with Susannah in 2015, but I doubt he would be petty at that stage to mention something in the media in revenge or anger for her not paying attention to him or whatever. I think at almost 60 years old, Prince was passed that.

In that very same article, where he clears up that what and who the song was about, he says, To then speculate, “Well, he wrote that song about me”? Afterwards you go, “Who are you? Why do you think that you’re part of the script that way? And why would you go around saying stuff like that?”
So we just let people talk and say whatever they want to say. Nine times out of 10, trust me, what’s out there now, I wouldn’t give nary one of these folks the time of day. That’s why I don’t say anything back, because there’s so much that’s wrong. In those few sentences he is addressing the decades of misconception and the long standing narrative that the song was about Susannah.

I am not artist, but I do enjoy artwork very much. Artists always have an inspiration or several for the work they create. Some are straight forward and tell you what or who inspired them and others leave it up to the audience to make their own meaning and interpretation of it. In the case of Prince, I believe he told a story through his songs. He was quoted saying that if we (fans/ audience) want to know about him, listen to his songs.

purplegirl00 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

no Electric Intercourse was written before he technically met Susannah. I said after the song was performed live @ the First Avenue Dance Benefit, which is where he was formally introduced to her, he then went and recorded the Beautiful Ones and removed G-Spot & Electric Intercourse from the movie performance score. Those 2 songs were back to back in the original script with Vanity.

.

Those were/are a bunch of reasons people were fully sure on on why Vanity was out of the camp.
There was strong speculation she cheated with someone to get back at Prince. I don't know if it was just a combination of things, Prince/Money/Addiction etc I still believe the song in part was about Vanities character too though. I don't think it is a long stretch for a song to have a few inspirations.

.

Susannah talked about it sometime last year. http://blog.thecurrent.or...nd-coffee/

.

I think this is where she talked about it. I believe Prince didn't have her full attention, the kids were calling for her in the background or crying or something, and she tried to explain to Prince she was listening to him. He got upset and said she was arrogant or something.

.

Wendy said it, he was talking to her, and asked to talk to Susannah

.

Well I still said that Susannah Melvoin was in the picture at the time, she was at that 1983 show and Prince was trying to convince her to join him not Berry Gordy at the time. New to the scene has nothing to do with it.

.

Susannah Melvoin:

When I auditioned for Quincy Jones, I didn't audition in front of him. I sent him a tape of an Aretha Franklin track (“Until You Come Back to Me”) that I had recorded with a friend of mine in his studio. I was just 19, maybe not even 19 yet, and I got the call. (Jones) called my father, who told me “You got the gig!” and I was like “What?!” There were only six of us who made it out of a 1,000 people who auditioned and I was the only white girl. I never felt more proud in my entire life. I was like “Yes, yes, yes! I am a sister!”

(Jones) had known my father for years...They knew each other in the early 1950s and then they started playing together in the 1960s and 1970s in Los Angeles. They had always been close.

There was a vocal contractor that worked with (Jones) who was at my father's house and that's how I found out about it. I had just graduated from high school and I was visiting my dad. He said, “Oh by the way, Tom is actually looking for vocalists for this a cappella group that (Jones) is putting together. I think you should try out for it.” I said okay and that's how that happened. It came from my father getting the call and also Tom being there talking on behalf of (Jones). It was kind of like a family thing...

I started working for Prince when I was 19. He had been spending a lot of time at my house, because, Wendy, Lisa and I were roommates. After high school, we always lived together. Lisa had gotten the gig with Prince and, when he would come into town, he would stay with us.

I was really young, right out of high school, and I was working for David Geffen as the receptionist at (Geffen Records). I had just done the audition for (Jones) and Wendy wanted to play Prince my demo of the Aretha Franklin track. All I could say was “Please don't play it for him. Oh my God!”

I went into my bedroom. It was 500 square feet, so, the bedroom wasn't very far from the kitchen. They were all sitting at the kitchen table listening to my track. Then the next thing I knew, Prince said “Why don't you come work with us? You should be with our group of people and you know this is where you belong.” I said " You know you're absolutely right.”

So, Prince and I had a long conversation at that point and I said, “You know I'm working with (Jones) right now. It was hard to get this this gig.”

The next thing I knew, I'm calling (Jones) in the middle of the night. I said, “I just can't sleep, I don't know what to do. I was offered a gig working with Prince. I kind of want to do it, my sister's there, my best friend who I grew up with (is there)...”

Long story short, he said, “How could you not want to do that? Go, baby. If you can't sleep at night and that's where you need to be, you need to be there. Don't think twice about it.” So, I got his graces.

From then on, I started working (for Prince), singing backup and being called in to sing on this or that track. I was singing on a couple tracks for the Apollonia 6 record when they were filming “Purple Rain.”

Thanks for the information. I get what you are saying and I respect your opinion. While the events you described above about the official meeting of Susannah could be true, I do not believe any of it had to do with his scrapping EI and replacing it with TBOs. From what I read, Prince dropped EI because it was for Vanity since she was supposed to play the female lead and was now gone. The song was too personal to have in the movie and direct it at Apollonia's character. He needed to have a ballad in the movie and therefore, he wrote and recorded TBOs. He could commercialize, fit it to the movie, and still partially direct it at Vanity for her departure. While other songs may have been inspired by Susannah, I do not think TBOs was one of them.

Prince was not always truthful with the media back in the 80's and maybe even into 90's. At times, he was even silent. He didn’t want his personal stuff out there.

I don't know about any contacts or relationship he had with Susannah in 2015, but I doubt he would be petty at that stage to mention something in the media in revenge or anger for her not paying attention to him or whatever. I think at almost 60 years old, Prince was passed that.

In that very same article, where he clears up that what and who the song was about, he says, To then speculate, “Well, he wrote that song about me”? Afterwards you go, “Who are you? Why do you think that you’re part of the script that way? And why would you go around saying stuff like that?”
So we just let people talk and say whatever they want to say. Nine times out of 10, trust me, what’s out there now, I wouldn’t give nary one of these folks the time of day. That’s why I don’t say anything back, because there’s so much that’s wrong. In those few sentences he is addressing the decades of misconception and the long standing narrative that the song was about Susannah.

I am not artist, but I do enjoy artwork very much. Artists always have an inspiration or several for the work they create. Some are straight forward and tell you what or who inspired them and others leave it up to the audience to make their own meaning and interpretation of it. In the case of Prince, I believe he told a story through his songs. He was quoted saying that if we (fans/ audience) want to know about him, listen to his songs.

ok so if he dropped Electric Intercourse because Vanity was now gone why would he create the Beautiful Ones for her and keep it in the film if it too was for her?

So R U saying it was about Apollonia?
I mean the Beautiful ONes is a very intimate song, more intimate that Electric Intercourse and G-Spot.

Yeah, from what I'm seeing it seems to be a few different inspirations tied into one.

He does sound a little pissed in that interview but that doesn't mean he is lying about where the song came from.

Wendy stated that P asked to talk to Susannah about 3 months before he died--Correct?? and he did ask that the Essense interview being stripped. It is possible he realized how harsh he sounded and wanted to apologize or something.

purplegirl00 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

no Electric Intercourse was written before he technically met Susannah. I said after the song was performed live @ the First Avenue Dance Benefit, which is where he was formally introduced to her, he then went and recorded the Beautiful Ones and removed G-Spot & Electric Intercourse from the movie performance score. Those 2 songs were back to back in the original script with Vanity.

.

Those were/are a bunch of reasons people were fully sure on on why Vanity was out of the camp.
There was strong speculation she cheated with someone to get back at Prince. I don't know if it was just a combination of things, Prince/Money/Addiction etc I still believe the song in part was about Vanities character too though. I don't think it is a long stretch for a song to have a few inspirations.

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Susannah talked about it sometime last year. http://blog.thecurrent.or...nd-coffee/

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I think this is where she talked about it. I believe Prince didn't have her full attention, the kids were calling for her in the background or crying or something, and she tried to explain to Prince she was listening to him. He got upset and said she was arrogant or something.

.

Wendy said it, he was talking to her, and asked to talk to Susannah

.

Well I still said that Susannah Melvoin was in the picture at the time, she was at that 1983 show and Prince was trying to convince her to join him not Berry Gordy at the time. New to the scene has nothing to do with it.

.

Susannah Melvoin:

When I auditioned for Quincy Jones, I didn't audition in front of him. I sent him a tape of an Aretha Franklin track (“Until You Come Back to Me”) that I had recorded with a friend of mine in his studio. I was just 19, maybe not even 19 yet, and I got the call. (Jones) called my father, who told me “You got the gig!” and I was like “What?!” There were only six of us who made it out of a 1,000 people who auditioned and I was the only white girl. I never felt more proud in my entire life. I was like “Yes, yes, yes! I am a sister!”

(Jones) had known my father for years...They knew each other in the early 1950s and then they started playing together in the 1960s and 1970s in Los Angeles. They had always been close.

There was a vocal contractor that worked with (Jones) who was at my father's house and that's how I found out about it. I had just graduated from high school and I was visiting my dad. He said, “Oh by the way, Tom is actually looking for vocalists for this a cappella group that (Jones) is putting together. I think you should try out for it.” I said okay and that's how that happened. It came from my father getting the call and also Tom being there talking on behalf of (Jones). It was kind of like a family thing...

I started working for Prince when I was 19. He had been spending a lot of time at my house, because, Wendy, Lisa and I were roommates. After high school, we always lived together. Lisa had gotten the gig with Prince and, when he would come into town, he would stay with us.

I was really young, right out of high school, and I was working for David Geffen as the receptionist at (Geffen Records). I had just done the audition for (Jones) and Wendy wanted to play Prince my demo of the Aretha Franklin track. All I could say was “Please don't play it for him. Oh my God!”

I went into my bedroom. It was 500 square feet, so, the bedroom wasn't very far from the kitchen. They were all sitting at the kitchen table listening to my track. Then the next thing I knew, Prince said “Why don't you come work with us? You should be with our group of people and you know this is where you belong.” I said " You know you're absolutely right.”

So, Prince and I had a long conversation at that point and I said, “You know I'm working with (Jones) right now. It was hard to get this this gig.”

The next thing I knew, I'm calling (Jones) in the middle of the night. I said, “I just can't sleep, I don't know what to do. I was offered a gig working with Prince. I kind of want to do it, my sister's there, my best friend who I grew up with (is there)...”

Long story short, he said, “How could you not want to do that? Go, baby. If you can't sleep at night and that's where you need to be, you need to be there. Don't think twice about it.” So, I got his graces.

From then on, I started working (for Prince), singing backup and being called in to sing on this or that track. I was singing on a couple tracks for the Apollonia 6 record when they were filming “Purple Rain.”

Thanks for the information. I get what you are saying and I respect your opinion. While the events you described above about the official meeting of Susannah could be true, I do not believe any of it had to do with his scrapping EI and replacing it with TBOs. From what I read, Prince dropped EI because it was for Vanity since she was supposed to play the female lead and was now gone. The song was too personal to have in the movie and direct it at Apollonia's character. He needed to have a ballad in the movie and therefore, he wrote and recorded TBOs. He could commercialize, fit it to the movie, and still partially direct it at Vanity for her departure. While other songs may have been inspired by Susannah, I do not think TBOs was one of them.

Prince was not always truthful with the media back in the 80's and maybe even into 90's. At times, he was even silent. He didn’t want his personal stuff out there.

I don't know about any contacts or relationship he had with Susannah in 2015, but I doubt he would be petty at that stage to mention something in the media in revenge or anger for her not paying attention to him or whatever. I think at almost 60 years old, Prince was passed that.

In that very same article, where he clears up that what and who the song was about, he says, To then speculate, “Well, he wrote that song about me”? Afterwards you go, “Who are you? Why do you think that you’re part of the script that way? And why would you go around saying stuff like that?”
So we just let people talk and say whatever they want to say. Nine times out of 10, trust me, what’s out there now, I wouldn’t give nary one of these folks the time of day. That’s why I don’t say anything back, because there’s so much that’s wrong. In those few sentences he is addressing the decades of misconception and the long standing narrative that the song was about Susannah.

I am not artist, but I do enjoy artwork very much. Artists always have an inspiration or several for the work they create. Some are straight forward and tell you what or who inspired them and others leave it up to the audience to make their own meaning and interpretation of it. In the case of Prince, I believe he told a story through his songs. He was quoted saying that if we (fans/ audience) want to know about him, listen to his songs.

I think the Ebony article was just real and of course it goes against some myths and peeps want to hold onto what they were told by extension. Peeps want to keep Prince in the 1980s and as Purplegirl00 noted he was almost 60 and was not the same man. He evolved. I do not think he was going around fabricating 2015/2016. He seemed reflective. The thing is there are so many associates and friends he had. I am surprised - some I would have never imagined.

.

It appears in the last year of his life he reconnected with many people.

.

I take issue with Prince being denied the mere decency to speak HIS OWN TRUTH because everyone else has been speaking theirs ABOUT HIM.

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplegirl00 said:

Thanks for the information. I get what you are saying and I respect your opinion. While the events you described above about the official meeting of Susannah could be true, I do not believe any of it had to do with his scrapping EI and replacing it with TBOs. From what I read, Prince dropped EI because it was for Vanity since she was supposed to play the female lead and was now gone. The song was too personal to have in the movie and direct it at Apollonia's character. He needed to have a ballad in the movie and therefore, he wrote and recorded TBOs. He could commercialize, fit it to the movie, and still partially direct it at Vanity for her departure. While other songs may have been inspired by Susannah, I do not think TBOs was one of them.

Prince was not always truthful with the media back in the 80's and maybe even into 90's. At times, he was even silent. He didn’t want his personal stuff out there.

I don't know about any contacts or relationship he had with Susannah in 2015, but I doubt he would be petty at that stage to mention something in the media in revenge or anger for her not paying attention to him or whatever. I think at almost 60 years old, Prince was passed that.

In that very same article, where he clears up that what and who the song was about, he says, To then speculate, “Well, he wrote that song about me”? Afterwards you go, “Who are you? Why do you think that you’re part of the script that way? And why would you go around saying stuff like that?”
So we just let people talk and say whatever they want to say. Nine times out of 10, trust me, what’s out there now, I wouldn’t give nary one of these folks the time of day. That’s why I don’t say anything back, because there’s so much that’s wrong. In those few sentences he is addressing the decades of misconception and the long standing narrative that the song was about Susannah.

I am not artist, but I do enjoy artwork very much. Artists always have an inspiration or several for the work they create. Some are straight forward and tell you what or who inspired them and others leave it up to the audience to make their own meaning and interpretation of it. In the case of Prince, I believe he told a story through his songs. He was quoted saying that if we (fans/ audience) want to know about him, listen to his songs.

ok so if he dropped Electric Intercourse because Vanity was now gone why would he create the Beautiful Ones for her and keep it in the film if it too was for her?

So R U saying it was about Apollonia?
I mean the Beautiful ONes is a very intimate song, more intimate that Electric Intercourse and G-Spot.

Yeah, from what I'm seeing it seems to be a few different inspirations tied into one.

No, I'm saying it may have been easier for him to sing TBOs directed at Apollonia in the movie (remember she is Vanity's replacement) VS Electric Intercourse if that song was so personal to him and Vanity in real life (outside of the movie). Like I mentioned before, and perhaps you've listened to it too, in one of the rehearsals for the Aug '83 benefit concert, he calls out very clearly to Vanity right before launching into it. So the song meant something for him and her and maybe he could not sing it for someone else (Apollonia). For example, I couldn't go sing a song about my husband to his replacement on screen if there were emotions and deep feelings tied to it.

When he wrote TBOs, Vanity was gone, but he was probably still reeling from her departure. The song is about a turning point/decision, struggle, and break-up of a relationship. It fits with the plot of the movie and the line, "The beautiful ones..U always seem 2 lose" reflected Vanity's departure. This song doesn't ring Susannah at all to me, but we are all entitled to our opinions. I'm going with what Prince said- the movie and Vanity's departure inspired the song.

laurarichardson said:

Toban said:

.

.

A thought...

There really shouldn't be a camp where Denise is concerned. They had a relationship that evolved and took on many forms over the years.

Furthermore, Denise wasn't just in contact with only Prince over the years but also with the "other women."

His significance to her is overwhelmingly evident in her past and in her everyday life.

Her significance to him I thought was evident to all, but if it isn't I feel no need to agrue or debate anything I share.

That being said.

.

Back in 1999, I recall reading a letter to DeBorah, dated December 1983, that she had tucked inside the cover of a book of photographs from that same holiday season. The letter was from her older sister, the photos were of that sister enjoying the holiday season with their mother, grandmother and others including their sister Denise/Vanity and one of Denise’s friends. She had made written description on the backs of most, if not all, of the photos and within the body of letter she also wrote about Denise’s frame of mind during the visit. I don’t remember her exact words in the letter, but they had something to do with her mood being down and her still not being over him.

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I'm still honeymooning in the Yucatan and I will not be calling DeBorah for the letter, I did bring my computer, but I have poor connection and very little time while touring the Mayan ruins.

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With regard to Purple Rain Denise writes “Most of the songs written spelled out our strange relationship.”

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I wonder how many other women back then could also relate to his lyrics at that time?

So why even argue the issue of inspiration as if it were a singularly unique experience.

From a poet’s point of view, I can tell you, it isn’t.

.

.

Why ask why?

Do we really need to know the set of circumstances

that happened in a particular order

to move that moment to the next.

Does it now make some difference to the audience,

to the Artist, to the Muse and or to how we now listen the music.

If it does, does it mean that you’re a poet, a romantic, a fanatic

or just curious?

.

His muses have been real people with real feelings.

His snippets of "their lives" that have sadly now come to fully encapsulated them.

Theses incomplete mosaics tied to and driving feelings without the benefit of the original “why.”

Her-story has been lyrically literally expose to the world…

and told only from his (history) side.

.

Poetically Speaking...

What many take for granted and don’t keep in mind

is that The Artist has taken one frame of one moment in time.

That it is also another’s mused memory set on loop that they’ve been forced to re-live, to rewind…

And that those who insistent upon knowing the reason and intent of an abstract

should instead be focus on what is derived from the divining the divine.

And that it is possible to do so.

.

Thanks for your input. After listen to Possessed, Katrina's Paper Doll and We Can F**k. I believe these songs are about Denise. Not sure why anyone would think Prince was writing about Susanna before he even met her is beyond me.

The Beautiful One...

being silly.

Decompressing with family and friends.

Vashtix said:

I think the Ebony article was just real and of course it goes against some myths and peeps want to hold onto what they were told by extension. Peeps want to keep Prince in the 1980s and as Purplegirl00 noted he was almost 60 and was not the same man. He evolved. I do not think he was going around fabricating 2015/2016. He seemed reflective. The thing is there are so many associates and friends he had. I am surprised - some I would have never imagined.

.

It appears in the last year of his life he reconnected with many people.

.

I take issue with Prince being denied the mere decency to speak HIS OWN TRUTH because everyone else has been speaking theirs ABOUT HIM.

Naw I don't think keeping Prince in the 1980s has anything to do with it.

The Ebony article was troubling to me. I wish I never read that. The paranoid comment about Susan Rogers wanting to take over the Vault or something like that was just not 'rational'. There were some other things that was not 'truthful' in my opinion.

.

For example I celebrated that he was a 50 something year old man, vs many other fans who went over the top saying 'he never ages' 'he looks as young as he did in 1981' etc which wasn't realistic nor was it a helpful thing for anyone whose looks was heavily a part of his career. To become older and have to reconcile that is hard enough. To have fans not be realistic and realize he could have have a little work done and he wears make up and there is also photoshopping in photos.

.

Prince though has always had the opportunity to speak his own story. No one ever denied him that.
I think it was maybe 2009 or during that 3yr stretch of him not releasing an album, that I wanted him to start writing a memoir. Oh do U remember all the fans that were so uptight that he hadn't released an album quickly? how antsy people were that 2-3yrs was going by and no album? I thought it was a good thing for him to take some time and not rush out easy songs. AoA was just not my cup of tea though.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Vashtix said:

I think the Ebony article was just real and of course it goes against some myths and peeps want to hold onto what they were told by extension. Peeps want to keep Prince in the 1980s and as Purplegirl00 noted he was almost 60 and was not the same man. He evolved. I do not think he was going around fabricating 2015/2016. He seemed reflective. The thing is there are so many associates and friends he had. I am surprised - some I would have never imagined.

.

It appears in the last year of his life he reconnected with many people.

.

I take issue with Prince being denied the mere decency to speak HIS OWN TRUTH because everyone else has been speaking theirs ABOUT HIM.

Naw I don't think keeping Prince in the 1980s has anything to do with it.

The Ebony article was troubling to me. I wish I never read that. The paranoid comment about Susan Rogers wanting to take over the Vault or something like that was just not 'rational'. There were some other things that was not 'truthful' in my opinion.

.

For example I celebrated that he was a 50 something year old man, vs many other fans who went over the top saying 'he never ages' 'he looks as young as he did in 1981' etc which wasn't realistic nor was it a helpful thing for anyone whose looks was heavily a part of his career. To become older and have to reconcile that is hard enough. To have fans not be realistic and realize he could have have a little work done and he wears make up and there is also photoshopping in photos.

.

Prince though has always had the opportunity to speak his own story. No one ever denied him that.
I think it was maybe 2009 or during that 3yr stretch of him not releasing an album, that I wanted him to start writing a memoir. Oh do U remember all the fans that were so uptight that he hadn't released an album quickly? how antsy people were that 2-3yrs was going by and no album? I thought it was a good thing for him to take some time and not rush out easy songs. AoA was just not my cup of tea though.

I feel when someone shares their thoughts and opinions especially about themselves whether I agree or not I need to accept it. It is their truth to tell.

I loved that Ebony article because I feel Prince was telling his truth. Yes, it went against what had been accepted as his truth but what had been accepted was a narrative from others. It was refreshing to get it from him. YES, it was different than what had been written and accepted as true which is why I am thankful he set the record straight.

.

I really loved A0A and play it to this day all the time. It is Prince as a mature middle aged man. I adore the whole thing especially The Breakdown and Way Back Home. Prince had evolved and was so different than that 20 something he was way back when. We were blessed to see it. The man who left her last year was special, most people never have courage to grow and change and become better and I think he did, his music says it. My thing is that Prince spoke his truth and not accepting it as legitimate is denying his-story, his truth. It was his life. There are things about Prince that make me cringe but it was him. It was what he chose and what he did- he was a grown behind man- he worked hard for what he achieved and the least I can do is respect him as a human being with thoughts and opinions and views that yes, are not aligning with what has been thought as true. However Prince's truth just the same.