I know what he said, and I'm sorry but Denise was not an " exception ". You think he had no heart ? He didn't grieve ? You stated that ( of course aside from the Melbourne show, at every show thereafter I assume ) every time he said we, she or us he was talking about AA. Nope.

Did you know that the songs on Purple Rain were written for the movie, he just let everyone think they were about somebody in particular ?

FlyOnTheWall said:

ChanGirl said:

As I stated on the Prince and Andy Betrothal thread, it was an obvious exception when he did a tribute to Vanity/Denise. He called her by name, so there was no doubt to whom he was referring. He said the following.

.

Can I tell you a story about Vanity? Or should I tell you a story about Denise? Her and I used to love each other deeply," Prince said. "She loved me for the artist I was, I loved her for the artist she was trying to be. She and I would fight. She was very headstrong 'cause she knew she was the finest woman in the world. She never missed an opportunity to tell you that.

.

BTW: I don't think Prince was a drug addict, either. I was simply stating what the medical examiner's report says.

Chan, it seem as though Fly was done with it. We both spoke our peace to tigerlily, and that was that. Now it seems like you're drumming up old stuff. We don't want this thread to be 10-15 pages of back and forths over weather P loved V. It's not gonna change any of our minds. Let's try to keep the focus on the woman, the artist known as Denise Katrina Matthews. After all, that's what the thread is about. As far as the others loading pics/making comments about her and P's relationship, let them be. If TOB wants to stop them, it'll be up to him (he started this thread). But as for "me", I prefer to keep this one focused on Denise. The title says it all. We don't wanna start a lot of pointless debating and get this thread closed.

In few weeks will be anniversary of when Denise "Vanity" Matthews passed. It is nice to celebrate her

and what she offered to pop culture forever.

Beautiful, Friend, Artist, Daughter of Jesus. Love Her !

[Edited 1/26/17 4:05am]

Such a great woman of God. She owned up to her early days of partying and promiscuity. She turned her life around and never looked back. I enjoy her entire story that I have learned from beginning to end.

Vashtix said:

Such a great woman of God. She owned up to her early days of partying and promiscuity. She turned her life around and never looked back. I enjoy her entire story that I have learned from beginning to end.

She was gorgeous. I think this might be the best photo of her that I've seen.

Anybody have any info on when Denise left/quit the movie Purple Rain. I know you may not be able to give me an exact date, but the season would be okay. Like, the Summer or Fall of '83 or something. I know it was '83 but was wondering which part of that year, cause I'm looking at where the planets were during that time as I do my analysis on her. Thanks.

tigerlilyluv said:

I couldn't find the thread where I shared this screenshot. Now that I've found a copy on my pc, I thought I'd post it in this thread. I believe this person. Also, "Use to love each other deeply" doesn't mean he no longer loved her.

[Edited 1/26/17 0:24am]

If this is true, which is always in doubt because it comes from a second hand source, the fact remains that Denise got married in 1995. Prince is not someone that would continue to seek out rejection from someone, especially if he had abandonment issues related to his childhood. In fact, it could be the abandonment issues that caused him to reach out and try to resume the relationship more than anything else. The reason I say that is because I had a similar childhood and have dealt with abandonment issues. If I walked away from a relationship, I never thought twice about going back. If they walked away from the relationship, I obssessed over it, tried to get them back, tried to keep in contact. It wasn't a reflection of how much I loved them, but a reflection of my abandonment issues. They had abandoned me when they ended the relationship and just as a child that has been abandoned, you want that parent (or the person that ended the relationship) to come back and tell you that you are worthy, that they loved you. I can also tell you that once they ended the relationship and if they did come back, I didn't trust them any more, and I usually ended the relationship after that and never looked back. It is a control thing, needing to be in control. Not a love thing. Vanity ended the relationship with Prince. I'm not surprised that he tried to get back with her. His need to control everything would be a reflection of his abandonment issues, and someone else ending a relationship takes that control out of his hands and he would work hard to get that control back. (And yes, I professed my undying love when I would try to get them back, because back then - when I was young - I believed I was doing it because I still loved them. If I hurt that bad it had to mean I loved them. It wasn't until I got older that I began to see the pattern and work through those abandonment issues and realized the pain came from my belief that I had been abandoned again.) Prince seemed to have worked through his, too, as he got older.

[Edited 1/26/17 6:20am]

PaisleyPrint said:

Anybody have any info on when Denise left/quit the movie Purple Rain. I know you may not be able to give me an exact date, but the season would be okay. Like, the Summer or Fall of '83 or something. I know it was '83 but was wondering which part of that year, cause I'm looking at where the planets were during that time as I do my analysis on her. Thanks.

She left before filming began. Not sure when they began filming it in '83.

benni said:

PaisleyPrint said:

Anybody have any info on when Denise left/quit the movie Purple Rain. I know you may not be able to give me an exact date, but the season would be okay. Like, the Summer or Fall of '83 or something. I know it was '83 but was wondering which part of that year, cause I'm looking at where the planets were during that time as I do my analysis on her. Thanks.

She left before filming began. Not sure when they began filming it in '83.

Okay, thanks. The article in Spin says they commenced filming on November 1, 1983.

PaisleyPrint said:

benni said:

She left before filming began. Not sure when they began filming it in '83.

Okay, thanks. The article in Spin says they commenced filming on November 1, 1983.

Ahh, so she left some time before November 1st, which could have been any time that year, I guess. :-/ So maybe it was in the summer or autumn?

FlyOnTheWall said:

ChanGirl said:

As I stated on the Prince and Andy Betrothal thread, it was an obvious exception when he did a tribute to Vanity/Denise. He called her by name, so there was no doubt to whom he was referring. He said the following.

.

Can I tell you a story about Vanity? Or should I tell you a story about Denise? Her and I used to love each other deeply," Prince said. "She loved me for the artist I was, I loved her for the artist she was trying to be. She and I would fight. She was very headstrong 'cause she knew she was the finest woman in the world. She never missed an opportunity to tell you that.

.

BTW: I don't think Prince was a drug addict, either. I was simply stating what the medical examiner's report says.

Yeah that....KEY WORDS being USED TO out of P's own mouth.

PaisleyPrint said:

joytotheworld said:

joytotheworld said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

Yeah that....KEY WORDS being USED TO out of P's own mouth.

Does it matter? Denise died. They were friends. I do not think that is a crime.

Prince married 2 women and no one seems to debate or argue over them.

Denise died. People mourned who knew her, Jill, Appolonia, Brenda Barrett, Susan Moonsie , Jamie Shoop and even Prince attended the funeral.

What is the big deal? They all made cultural history together? If Prince or anyone else paid tribute in any way it should be ok. It is not saying he loved anyone else less if iit makes you think he loved his wives or other girlfriends less. The woman is dead. Please stop trying to minimize a tribute to a dead woman.

He was not living with her, he was not married to her. THEY were friends at one time. Respect and Accept

We are all mature enough to understand people can love and mourn old friendships especially them. They made history together .

The need to minimize their past and piss on her memory is disappointing and sad. L

ChanGirl said:

I know what he said, and I'm sorry but Denise was not an " exception ". You think he had no heart ? He didn't grieve ? You stated that ( of course aside from the Melbourne show, at every show thereafter I assume ) every time he said we, she or us he was talking about AA. Nope.

Did you know that the songs on Purple Rain were written for the movie, he just let everyone think they were about somebody in particular ?

These people are trying to get this thread removed

They want a fight over Vanity's relationship to Prince. Sad.

It does not matter. Prince cared for her and shed tears and was shattered. He was a human being. I do not understand why he is not even allowed this for a friend.

benni said:

contropurple said:

benni said:

If this is true, which is always in doubt because it comes from a second hand source, the fact remains that Denise got married in 1995. Prince is not someone that would continue to seek out rejection from someone, especially if he had abandonment issues related to his childhood. In fact, it could be the abandonment issues that caused him to reach out and try to resume the relationship more than anything else. The reason I say that is because I had a similar childhood and have dealt with abandonment issues. If I walked away from a relationship, I never thought twice about going back. If they walked away from the relationship, I obssessed over it, tried to get them back, tried to keep in contact. It wasn't a reflection of how much I loved them, but a reflection of my abandonment issues. They had abandoned me when they ended the relationship and just as a child that has been abandoned, you want that parent (or the person that ended the relationship) to come back and tell you that you are worthy, that they loved you. I can also tell you that once they ended the relationship and if they did come back, I didn't trust them any more, and I usually ended the relationship after that and never looked back. It is a control thing, needing to be in control. Not a love thing. Vanity ended the relationship with Prince. I'm not surprised that he tried to get back with her. His need to control everything would be a reflection of his abandonment issues, and someone else ending a relationship takes that control out of his hands and he would work hard to get that control back. (And yes, I professed my undying love when I would try to get them back, because back then - when I was young - I believed I was doing it because I still loved them. If I hurt that bad it had to mean I loved them. It wasn't until I got older that I began to see the pattern and work through those abandonment issues and realized the pain came from my belief that I had been abandoned again.) Prince seemed to have worked through his, too, as he got older.

[Edited 1/26/17 6:20am]

Thanks for your candidness. I seen this before. You explained it really well. This could well have been the case with P and D. I think she recognised the behaviour too.

Deliverance from God. You recognize your mistakes, learn from it, and become wiser. I commend her for her strong faith and dedication in God. She said she was in love with the Prince of Peace (God). God became the head of Denise's life and she didn't let anyone take that away from her. Her past is a testimony to how great God works. She passed still devoted to living for Christ, the Prince of Peace, for God. That alone makes you want to love her even more. Her sermons are a must-watch!

This is a Denise thread. I was defending her and Prince's relationship to someone who minimized it to just an " exception " in favor of their stan. No one knew the depth of their relationship, but I care enough for Prince to understand how he felt about her. No thread should be removed because someone can't face truth, which is something Prince espoused.

Vashtix said:

luvgirl said:

Strawberrylova123 said: I absolutely believed the man when he said they loved each other deeply! I don't think they were romantically involved anymore, but I do believe Prince held a certain kind of love for her that transcended time, and I believe his heart was broken when she died. [Edited 1/24/17 20:17pm]

I think they had a connection that was way beyond the romantic it was not earthly, mortal kind of thing but spiritual as you said transcending space, time, what we can see on a totally different level - I think they were twin flames ( they are not always romantic )

Broken heart syndrome? I’ve yet to read anything on subject.

A series of bad decisions due to grieving? I think, Yes! Although, once I do read about broken heart syndrome will I be asking, what is the difference?

But even so, it would only tell me that they were closer than anyone could have known, and or that she meant more to him then he knew or was willing to admit. Which is perfectly understandable, and from which I know from a similar experience.

At least 4 odd things have occurred to me, beginning on 02.15.16 with Denise’s pasting, which has me rethinking things that I would normally see then file away and dismiss, brush off as coincidence, or best I’d jokingly acknowledge it with the phrase “someone is trying to tell me something” as the very limit of credence that I’d give it.

Up until a month after Denise died I had never been in an ambulance and I had only been to the Emergency Room for myself twice in my life. Once for a bone deep cut from a table saw when I was 19 and then 10 years later when DeBorah forced me to go because she believed I was having an allergic reaction.

In the early morning of March 17, 2016 I was found nonresponsive in the bathroom, and thought at times to be dead or dying. How long was I like that before I was found is unknown, but I’d guess somewhere between 15 to 30 minutes. But within a minute of my reviving paramedics were at the master bedroom bathroom door questioning me, wanting me to immediately come out. I came out within 2 minutes and they continued to question me and immediately began taking my vitals. I’m answering their questions as best I can for about 5 minutes not wanting to be transported to the hospital. Becoming frustrated I stand up showing and telling them that I’m fine, I acknowledged my short history of high blood pressure, and explained that I didn’t need to go to the hospital and definitely not in an ambulance.

As I stood there about ready to do jumpjacks or pushups to convince the paramedics it was an overreaction, they just simply referred to and pointed to my blood pressure reading, which had increased a little from the initial reading. It was now flickering up to 78 over 40 something (more than half my normal reading), and upon seeing those numbers my mind flashes back to 32 days ago as I watched Denise’s vital signs. I then sit and comply.

It is silent, nevertheless a very harsh and jarring experience in discovering just how important someone is to you after they are gone.

Reasoning away and belittling your feelings, making excuses for your mood, and all the while telling yourself that you don’t want to worry those concerned for you (but honestly, more concerned that no one would understand and not yet in a mood to explain).

These very telling reactions only compounds the dangers of the very real problems that you face in the attempt to try to hide your grief.

With any one of the emotional stages of grief being a threat to your health, how do you survive all the stages if you don’t admit you are grieving, in pain, constantly hurting, while feeling required to conceal that pain and make it go away?

Which stage of grief do you treat? Self-medicate to treat the pain the same as any other pain?

4 of the 5 stages grief are dangerous enough to make you not think clearly, some to a point that you don’t care what you do.

Was it a bad decision, not paying close enough attention or something else that I did or did not do that landed me in the hospital. The hospital found absolutely nothing wrong with me to explain a condition that has never happen before or since.

So without benefit of a medical diagnosis I simply thought it best to take better care of myself and pay more attention to things I would normally file away and dismiss. But, it is only now that I am willing acknowledge my grief, and learn about the grieving process.

I've explained my agenda in wanting to reveal Denise as more than just a pretty face and show her many other creative and artist interest.

I've explained that I have no desire to promote or elevate Vanity's relationship to Prince.

I've said this many times and it is still not my intent, however my answering a question regarding what initiated their love hate relationship has lead to a series of revelations that makes me wonder, what was it about the other initially and what did it later grow into being.

Why did he want to write his life story soon after she died?

Why entitle it The Beautiful Ones?

Why and how would her death cause his? Which I would normally dismiss if not for my March 17th experience.

Why did she leave me her books, screen play, poetry, pictures, undeveloped film, paintings and storage?

I might be searching for a reason where there is none. I understand that regarding grief, but also because of it I'm going allow myself the time to process it.

TOB, I just wanna ask, Did Denise ever talk about becoming a mother or of wanting to have children. Just wondering...

ChanGirl said:

This is a Denise thread. I was defending her and Prince's relationship to someone who minimized it to just an " exception " in favor of their stan. No one knew the depth of their relationship, but I care enough for Prince to understand how he felt about her. No thread should be removed because someone can't face truth, which is something Prince espoused.

You are taking my words TOTALLY out of context. When I used the word "exception," I was referring only to my theory that when Prince was referring to "she" or "her" during his PAAM tour, he was referring to Andy Allo, except when he did his Vanity/Denise tribute. That is all. Please don't make a mountain out of a molehill. You have your theory. I have mine. Can we please have a rational discussion on this board??? Good Lord...

[Edited 1/26/17 15:18pm]

TOB said:

Vashtix said:

I think they had a connection that was way beyond the romantic it was not earthly, mortal kind of thing but spiritual as you said transcending space, time, what we can see on a totally different level - I think they were twin flames ( they are not always romantic )

Broken heart syndrome? I’ve yet to read anything on subject.

A series of bad decisions due to grieving? I think, Yes! Although, once I do read about broken heart syndrome will I be asking, what is the difference?

But even so, it would only tell me that they were closer than anyone could have known, and or that she meant more to him then he knew or was willing to admit. Which is perfectly understandable, and from which I know from a similar experience.

At least 4 odd things have occurred to me, beginning on 02.15.16 with Denise’s pasting, which has me rethinking things that I would normally see then file away and dismiss, brush off as coincidence, or best I’d jokingly acknowledge it with the phrase “someone is trying to tell me something” as the very limit of credence that I’d give it.

Up until a month after Denise died I had never been in an ambulance and I had only been to the Emergency Room for myself twice in my life. Once for a bone deep cut from a table saw when I was 19 and then 10 years later when DeBorah forced me to go because she believed I was having an allergic reaction.

In the early morning of March 17, 2016 I was found nonresponsive in the bathroom, and thought at times to be dead or dying. How long was I like that before I was found is unknown, but I’d guess somewhere between 15 to 30 minutes. But within a minute of my reviving paramedics were at the master bedroom bathroom door questioning me, wanting me to immediately come out. I came out within 2 minutes and they continued to question me and immediately began taking my vitals. I’m answering their questions as best I can for about 5 minutes not wanting to be transported to the hospital. Becoming frustrated I stand up showing and telling them that I’m fine, I acknowledged my short history of high blood pressure, and explained that I didn’t need to go to the hospital and definitely not in an ambulance.

As I stood there about ready to do jumpjacks or pushups to convince the paramedics it was an overreaction, they just simply referred to and pointed to my blood pressure reading, which had increased a little from the initial reading. It was now flickering up to 78 over 40 something (more than half my normal reading), and upon seeing those numbers my mind flashes back to 32 days ago as I watched Denise’s vital signs. I then sit and comply.

It is silent, nevertheless a very harsh and jarring experience in discovering just how important someone is to you after they are gone.

Reasoning away and belittling your feelings, making excuses for your mood, and all the while telling yourself that you don’t want to worry those concerned for you (but honestly, more concerned that no one would understand and not yet in a mood to explain).

These very telling reactions only compounds the dangers of the very real problems that you face in the attempt to try to hide your grief.

With any one of the emotional stages of grief being a threat to your health, how do you survive all the stages if you don’t admit you are grieving, in pain, constantly hurting, while feeling required to conceal that pain and make it go away?

Which stage of grief do you treat? Self-medicate to treat the pain the same as any other pain?

4 of the 5 stages grief are dangerous enough to make you not think clearly, some to a point that you don’t care what you do.

Was it a bad decision, not paying close enough attention or something else that I did or did not do that landed me in the hospital. The hospital found absolutely nothing wrong with me to explain a condition that has never happen before or since.

So without benefit of a medical diagnosis I simply thought it best to take better care of myself and pay more attention to things I would normally file away and dismiss. But, it is only now that I am willing acknowledge my grief, and learn about the grieving process.

I've explained my agenda in wanting to reveal Denise as more than just a pretty face and show her many other creative and artist interest.

I've explained that I have no desire to promote or elevate Vanity's relationship to Prince.

I've said this many times and it is still not my intent, however my answering a question regarding what initiated their love hate relationship has lead to a series of revelations that makes me wonder, what was it about the other initially and what did it later grow into being.

Why did he want to write his life story soon after she died?

Why entitle it The Beautiful Ones?

Why and how would her death cause his? Which I would normally dismiss if not for my March 17th experience.

Why did she leave me her books, screen play, poetry, pictures, undeveloped film, paintings and storage?

I might be searching for a reason where there is none. I understand that regarding grief, but also because of it I'm going allow myself the time to process it.

Tbh, I believe Prince knew that he would be passing from this existance soon. There was a story in the New York Times shortly after he died that said he told a club owner a couple of days before he died that he saw dead people Now that's scary! Denise was his muse, and her death made him think of his empending departure, thus the title, The Beautiful Ones. According to a press release about the memoir, "Prince will take the reader on an unconventional and poetic journey through his life and creative work". It says the book will include stories about Prince's music and , "the family that shaped him and the people, places and ideas that fired his creative imagination". And of course that would definately include Denise Matthews. Here's the article

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/books/features/Prince-is-writing-a-memoir-The-Beautiful-Ones/articleshow/51508580.cms

PaisleyPrint said:

TOB said:

Broken heart syndrome? I’ve yet to read anything on subject.

A series of bad decisions due to grieving? I think, Yes! Although, once I do read about broken heart syndrome will I be asking, what is the difference?

But even so, it would only tell me that they were closer than anyone could have known, and or that she meant more to him then he knew or was willing to admit. Which is perfectly understandable, and from which I know from a similar experience.

At least 4 odd things have occurred to me, beginning on 02.15.16 with Denise’s pasting, which has me rethinking things that I would normally see then file away and dismiss, brush off as coincidence, or best I’d jokingly acknowledge it with the phrase “someone is trying to tell me something” as the very limit of credence that I’d give it.

Up until a month after Denise died I had never been in an ambulance and I had only been to the Emergency Room for myself twice in my life. Once for a bone deep cut from a table saw when I was 19 and then 10 years later when DeBorah forced me to go because she believed I was having an allergic reaction.

In the early morning of March 17, 2016 I was found nonresponsive in the bathroom, and thought at times to be dead or dying. How long was I like that before I was found is unknown, but I’d guess somewhere between 15 to 30 minutes. But within a minute of my reviving paramedics were at the master bedroom bathroom door questioning me, wanting me to immediately come out. I came out within 2 minutes and they continued to question me and immediately began taking my vitals. I’m answering their questions as best I can for about 5 minutes not wanting to be transported to the hospital. Becoming frustrated I stand up showing and telling them that I’m fine, I acknowledged my short history of high blood pressure, and explained that I didn’t need to go to the hospital and definitely not in an ambulance.

As I stood there about ready to do jumpjacks or pushups to convince the paramedics it was an overreaction, they just simply referred to and pointed to my blood pressure reading, which had increased a little from the initial reading. It was now flickering up to 78 over 40 something (more than half my normal reading), and upon seeing those numbers my mind flashes back to 32 days ago as I watched Denise’s vital signs. I then sit and comply.

It is silent, nevertheless a very harsh and jarring experience in discovering just how important someone is to you after they are gone.

Reasoning away and belittling your feelings, making excuses for your mood, and all the while telling yourself that you don’t want to worry those concerned for you (but honestly, more concerned that no one would understand and not yet in a mood to explain).

These very telling reactions only compounds the dangers of the very real problems that you face in the attempt to try to hide your grief.

With any one of the emotional stages of grief being a threat to your health, how do you survive all the stages if you don’t admit you are grieving, in pain, constantly hurting, while feeling required to conceal that pain and make it go away?

Which stage of grief do you treat? Self-medicate to treat the pain the same as any other pain?

4 of the 5 stages grief are dangerous enough to make you not think clearly, some to a point that you don’t care what you do.

Was it a bad decision, not paying close enough attention or something else that I did or did not do that landed me in the hospital. The hospital found absolutely nothing wrong with me to explain a condition that has never happen before or since.

So without benefit of a medical diagnosis I simply thought it best to take better care of myself and pay more attention to things I would normally file away and dismiss. But, it is only now that I am willing acknowledge my grief, and learn about the grieving process.

I've explained my agenda in wanting to reveal Denise as more than just a pretty face and show her many other creative and artist interest.

I've explained that I have no desire to promote or elevate Vanity's relationship to Prince.

I've said this many times and it is still not my intent, however my answering a question regarding what initiated their love hate relationship has lead to a series of revelations that makes me wonder, what was it about the other initially and what did it later grow into being.

Why did he want to write his life story soon after she died?

Why entitle it The Beautiful Ones?

Why and how would her death cause his? Which I would normally dismiss if not for my March 17th experience.

Why did she leave me her books, screen play, poetry, pictures, undeveloped film, paintings and storage?

I might be searching for a reason where there is none. I understand that regarding grief, but also because of it I'm going allow myself the time to process it.

Tbh, I believe Prince knew that he would be passing from this existance soon. There was a story in the New York Times shortly after he died that said he told a club owner a couple of days before he died that he saw dead people Now that's scary! Denise was his muse, and her death made him think of his empending departure, thus the title, The Beautiful Ones. According to a press release about the memoir, "Prince will take the reader on an unconventional and poetic journey through his life and creative work". It says the book will include stories about Prince's music and , "the family that shaped him and the people, places and ideas that fired his creative imagination". And of course that would definately include Denise Matthews. Here's the article

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/books/features/Prince-is-writing-a-memoir-The-Beautiful-Ones/articleshow/51508580.cms

I wish he had been able to finish his memoir. He reportedly had submitted 50 pages to the publisher. Let's hope that he had more on his computer that was not yet submitted. If I'm not mistaken, the plan was to cover his life through the Super Bowl in 2007.

FlyOnTheWall said:

PaisleyPrint said:

Tbh, I believe Prince knew that he would be passing from this existance soon. There was a story in the New York Times shortly after he died that said he told a club owner a couple of days before he died that he saw dead people Now that's scary! Denise was his muse, and her death made him think of his empending departure, thus the title, The Beautiful Ones. According to a press release about the memoir, "Prince will take the reader on an unconventional and poetic journey through his life and creative work". It says the book will include stories about Prince's music and , "the family that shaped him and the people, places and ideas that fired his creative imagination". And of course that would definately include Denise Matthews. Here's the article

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/books/features/Prince-is-writing-a-memoir-The-Beautiful-Ones/articleshow/51508580.cms

I wish he had been able to finish his memoir. He reportedly had submitted 50 pages to the publisher. Let's hope that he had more on his computer that was not yet submitted. If I'm not mistaken, the plan was to cover his life through the Super Bowl in 2007.

Ikr, I was hoping so too He said Spiegel & Grau (the publisher) made him an "offer he couldn't refuse". I hate to be nosey but I'm wondering how much was THAT!?

FlyOnTheWall said:

ChanGirl said:

This is a Denise thread. I was defending her and Prince's relationship to someone who minimized it to just an " exception " in favor of their stan. No one knew the depth of their relationship, but I care enough for Prince to understand how he felt about her. No thread should be removed because someone can't face truth, which is something Prince espoused.

You are taking my words TOTALLY out of context. When I used the word "exception," I was referring only to my theory that when Prince was referring to "she" or "her" during his PAAM tour, he was referring to Andy Allo, except when he did his Vanity/Denise tribute. That is all. Please don't make a mountain out of a molehill. You have your theory. I have mine. Can we please have a rational discussion on this board??? Good Lord...

[Edited 1/26/17 15:18pm]

Out of context. I give up on you, Fly, you just keep contradicting yourself. Anyway, shouldn't u be working on your two/three AA threads ? Pictures and stories don't post themselves, you know. And we are having a fine discussion, actually. About Denise.

Thanks TOB for your insightful, true and fond memories of Prince's great love ...

ChanGirl said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

You are taking my words TOTALLY out of context. When I used the word "exception," I was referring only to my theory that when Prince was referring to "she" or "her" during his PAAM tour, he was referring to Andy Allo, except when he did his Vanity/Denise tribute. That is all. Please don't make a mountain out of a molehill. You have your theory. I have mine. Can we please have a rational discussion on this board??? Good Lord...

[Edited 1/26/17 15:18pm]

Out of context. I give up on you, Fly, you just keep contradicting yourself. Anyway, shouldn't u be working on your two/three AA threads ? Pictures and stories don't post themselves, you know. And we are having a fine discussion, actually. About Denise.

Thanks TOB for your insightful, true and fond memories of Prince's great love ...

No, my Prince and Andy threads have been pulled again, Chan, so that gives me lots of time to participate here on this very interesting thread. BTW, please tell me how I have contradicted myself?

TOB said:

Vashtix said:

I think they had a connection that was way beyond the romantic it was not earthly, mortal kind of thing but spiritual as you said transcending space, time, what we can see on a totally different level - I think they were twin flames ( they are not always romantic )

Broken heart syndrome? I’ve yet to read anything on subject.

A series of bad decisions due to grieving? I think, Yes! Although, once I do read about broken heart syndrome will I be asking, what is the difference?

But even so, it would only tell me that they were closer than anyone could have known, and or that she meant more to him then he knew or was willing to admit. Which is perfectly understandable, and from which I know from a similar experience.

At least 4 odd things have occurred to me, beginning on 02.15.16 with Denise’s pasting, which has me rethinking things that I would normally see then file away and dismiss, brush off as coincidence, or best I’d jokingly acknowledge it with the phrase “someone is trying to tell me something” as the very limit of credence that I’d give it.

Up until a month after Denise died I had never been in an ambulance and I had only been to the Emergency Room for myself twice in my life. Once for a bone deep cut from a table saw when I was 19 and then 10 years later when DeBorah forced me to go because she believed I was having an allergic reaction.

In the early morning of March 17, 2016 I was found nonresponsive in the bathroom, and thought at times to be dead or dying. How long was I like that before I was found is unknown, but I’d guess somewhere between 15 to 30 minutes. But within a minute of my reviving paramedics were at the master bedroom bathroom door questioning me, wanting me to immediately come out. I came out within 2 minutes and they continued to question me and immediately began taking my vitals. I’m answering their questions as best I can for about 5 minutes not wanting to be transported to the hospital. Becoming frustrated I stand up showing and telling them that I’m fine, I acknowledged my short history of high blood pressure, and explained that I didn’t need to go to the hospital and definitely not in an ambulance.

As I stood there about ready to do jumpjacks or pushups to convince the paramedics it was an overreaction, they just simply referred to and pointed to my blood pressure reading, which had increased a little from the initial reading. It was now flickering up to 78 over 40 something (more than half my normal reading), and upon seeing those numbers my mind flashes back to 32 days ago as I watched Denise’s vital signs. I then sit and comply.

It is silent, nevertheless a very harsh and jarring experience in discovering just how important someone is to you after they are gone.

Reasoning away and belittling your feelings, making excuses for your mood, and all the while telling yourself that you don’t want to worry those concerned for you (but honestly, more concerned that no one would understand and not yet in a mood to explain).

These very telling reactions only compounds the dangers of the very real problems that you face in the attempt to try to hide your grief.

With any one of the emotional stages of grief being a threat to your health, how do you survive all the stages if you don’t admit you are grieving, in pain, constantly hurting, while feeling required to conceal that pain and make it go away?

Which stage of grief do you treat? Self-medicate to treat the pain the same as any other pain?

4 of the 5 stages grief are dangerous enough to make you not think clearly, some to a point that you don’t care what you do.

Was it a bad decision, not paying close enough attention or something else that I did or did not do that landed me in the hospital. The hospital found absolutely nothing wrong with me to explain a condition that has never happen before or since.

So without benefit of a medical diagnosis I simply thought it best to take better care of myself and pay more attention to things I would normally file away and dismiss. But, it is only now that I am willing acknowledge my grief, and learn about the grieving process.

I've explained my agenda in wanting to reveal Denise as more than just a pretty face and show her many other creative and artist interest.

I've explained that I have no desire to promote or elevate Vanity's relationship to Prince.

I've said this many times and it is still not my intent, however my answering a question regarding what initiated their love hate relationship has lead to a series of revelations that makes me wonder, what was it about the other initially and what did it later grow into being.

Why did he want to write his life story soon after she died?

Why entitle it The Beautiful Ones?

Why and how would her death cause his? Which I would normally dismiss if not for my March 17th experience.

Why did she leave me her books, screen play, poetry, pictures, undeveloped film, paintings and storage?

I might be searching for a reason where there is none. I understand that regarding grief, but also because of it I'm going allow myself the time to process it.

I had to read this post over a few times to finally come to a sort of understanding for myself about the contents.

I get how not wanting to grieve causes other effects in our behaviour, health, mental state. You explained it so well and in essence that is what the broken heart syndrome is- The physical effect resulting from grief causes people to have heart failure, high blood, etc. Some people start hoarding, some drink, others party hard, some go into deep depression.

I did not know Denise but I would think she trusted you to keep who she was and who she became safe. She knew you were safe for her memory and would not take advantage of who she was on earth the good and bad. That is very special to be a safe place for someone especially after they have transitioned. It is a huge responsibility. Please hold on tight to what she left in your safe keeping. All things Vanity since her death has great value and I suppose there may be sharks circling.

Since you were close to her the search and questions are placed there for a reason nothing just happens and your instinct is something given by God.

Take a look when you have a moment on the description of twin flame. It is not always romantic as some think. I feel that way about Prince and Denise. It is higher and different than sensual , earthy love.

http://devinemiracles.com/twin-flames.html

It is nice of you to share these thoughts. These next weeks have to be hard on the family. I just hope here we can celebrate who she was . AMAZING WOMAN who even as Vanity inspired many lives and as an Evangelist changed many lives. AMAZING.

[Edited 1/26/17 18:24pm]

FlyOnTheWall said:

ChanGirl said:

Out of context. I give up on you, Fly, you just keep contradicting yourself. Anyway, shouldn't u be working on your two/three AA threads ? Pictures and stories don't post themselves, you know. And we are having a fine discussion, actually. About Denise.

Thanks TOB for your insightful, true and fond memories of Prince's great love ...

No, my Prince and Andy threads have been pulled again, Chan, so that gives me lots of time to participate here on this very interesting thread. BTW, please tell me how I have contradicted myself?

Fly, I understand that - for u - talking about Denise is like studying ancient history. I'm sure the mods will release your PRINDY thread soon. Or u can always create another one