Yeah, some of Ms Rogers' judgements are plain wrong. P wrote some great lyrics. By pop music standards he was one of the best.

Always good to hear from people who worked with him at his peak though.

She didn't exactly state that Prince was a horrible lyricist. She said he wasn't up there with Bob Dylan (when one doesn't have to worry about melody or funk, it might be easier to be a great lyricist.

But she did admit that Prince could turn a good line and the interviewer called her to task about his lyric writing. Prince's lyrics are idiosyncratic. Sometimes they are profound and lovely, sometimes they are silly and funny, and sometimes they are an absolute mystery. Sometimes they are just kind of bad.

midnightmover said:

Yeah, some of Ms Rogers' judgements are plain wrong. P wrote some great lyrics. By pop music standards he was one of the best.

Always good to hear from people who worked with him at his peak though.

Awesome interview with great insights! Well worth the 2+ hours of listening.

Thank you for posting "Latin."

databank said:

bluegangsta said:

Interested to learn that Moonbeam Levels was on configurations of Purple Rain and ATWIAD.

I don't put so much credit into her recollections since she claimed that the 1986 album was titled Under The Cherry Moon and that Play In the Sunshine had been sequenced to be a mere transition between SOTT and Housequake (when it was originally set between Rebirth and Housequake). I'm gonna listen to it with intererest, though

You worked with Pince when?

luvgirl said:

The fact that Prince seemed to despised her commenting on what took place with his music, and he was implying that she doesn't know quite as much as she thinks she does, has left me a little jaded when it comes to her. Also, a lot of the stuff she said in books like Possessed has rubbed me the wrong way. They just seemed pure speculation. I'm not 100% on board with her. I would like to be fair and give her a chance though. We'll see... [Edited 12/10/16 10:59am]

I just watched this lecture and found it incredibly enlightening. In a couple of ways - those being about Prince obviously, and also the craft and the ego it takes and how people can share music, whether with friends as a hobby, or with the public. She has such a great insight to not just the technical side of stuff (which actually wasn't talked about so much), but how there are really three audiences: Scholars, critics, and the general public.

I also loved that she touched on something people overstate, and frankly IMO state wrongly: that Prince was a perfectionist. He wasn't. At all. If anyone sees the Warehouse video from June 7, 1984 (which is the rehearsal for the now infamous birthday gig that evening), you can see the utter rawness of how things were done. Even "All Day, All Night" was recorded on that video, and later used on Jill's record. We hear perfection as Prince fans, but the reality is that the music served the ideas, not the other way around (Susan's words). Prince bled music, so because music is so inherent to him down to a cellular level, we hear perfection. When in fact, we are really hearing Prince being Prince. Prince making music, by any means necessary (even in an echoey, concrete warehouse) then we hear his gift coming to fruition. That is perfect to us because he's perfectly operating in the gift(s) he's been given.

Years ago, a writer quoted someone as saying (and it could have been Eric Leeds) that if Prince was in a room with a comb and a bottle, he'd make music. Because that's just what he did in life. That was his mantle, his anointing, his calling, and in effect - his ministry. So Prince wasn't perfect in how he made music technically, it was just perfect for him to make music.

She called ATWIAD a transitional album, which I've always felt was right. He was smart in knowing nothing was going to be purple forever, so why not be bold artistically and do something else? He had the clout in the public's eye. The album not only served as a platter of new ideas, but transitioned into the Parade era quite well. And frankly, to me, even bleeds into SOTT a bit. 1984 was the end of stage 1. 1985 started stage 2, which lasted until 1990, IMO. I feel Controversy was a transitional album, too. Transitional doesn't mean it's less valid. It means you're getting out of the Cadillac, and hopping into a Jeep, or a Lexus. You're still on the road, you're just changing how you get to the next place. And those albums - Controversy & ATWIAD - were the changing of vehicles.

There are so many great points made, and it's definitely worth the watch.

I'm wondering though - she said how excited she was about every song "except one", that she wanted people to hear right away, and thought "This is so great, I hope people hear this!" What was the one song? "Wally"? Or was there just one song that she didn't care for?

She also made a note about Prince never really being the sexual predator in a song. He always gave the woman the power, which is true. However, there are those couple of rape-y lines which might have passed over her conscience.

bluegangsta said:

Interested to learn that Moonbeam Levels was on configurations of Purple Rain and ATWIAD.

Isn't it interesting to know that it was recorded in 1982, and Prince was trying to land it in a few places over time. Remember, it was due to be on the original Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic as well, at some point. He even teased NPGMC with the possibility of it in 2001 or so. It seems, like "17 Days", that "Moonbeam Levels" was the song in search of an album. Frankly "17 Days" could have been reworked and put on ATWIAD. "Moonbeam Levels" had such a strong Revolution type vibe to it, that without a significant reworking, I'm not sure it'd have fit well on a later record. I'm sorta glad it didn't travel around like "Empty Room" did.

TrivialPursuit said:

paulludvig said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Isn't it interesting to know that it was recorded in 1982, and Prince was trying to land it in a few places over time. Remember, it was due to be on the original Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic as well, at some point. He even teased NPGMC with the possibility of it in 2001 or so. It seems, like "17 Days", that "Moonbeam Levels" was the song in search of an album. Frankly "17 Days" could have been reworked and put on ATWIAD. "Moonbeam Levels" had such a strong Revolution type vibe to it, that without a significant reworking, I'm not sure it'd have fit well on a later record. I'm sorta glad it didn't travel around like "Empty Room" did.

Don't think the Revolution had anything to do with Moonbeam Levels.

What I said was it's a "revolution type vibe to it", meaning it sounds like something they'd do. It was all Prince in the recording, though.

databank said:

I don't put so much credit into her recollections since she claimed that the 1986 album was titled Under The Cherry Moon and that Play In the Sunshine had been sequenced to be a mere transition between SOTT and Housequake (when it was originally set between Rebirth and Housequake). I'm gonna listen to it with intererest, though

She was there. We weren't. A good fan would put a lot of credit into her lecture and stories, rather than mimicking Prince's bitter-betty statement about "Susan Rogers doesn't know my music". Boy, she did. She didn't just walk in and hit a button then go to lunch. She was there all the damn time. They joked, laughed, talked, worked together. If I'd trust anyone's opinion, it'd be an engineer more than a band member or manager or whoever. The engineer is there, all the time.

And if we're splitting hairs because, apparently, we are - Purple Rain, Sign O The Times, and Graffiti Bridge - all had soundtracks with the same name. Under The Cherry Moon did not. It's a common hiccup when people are speaking about it. We've all done it at one point. She did refer to the album as Parade, and said that "'Under The Cherry Moon' was certainly an anchor song for the Parade record".

Why Prince fans split hairs over minor shit like that, instead of major talking points is beyond me. Can't we just discuss the legacy, hear the stories, and digest them? These are golden times to hear great stuff that people might not have heard before because of non-disclosure etc.

As far as the comment about "17 Days" over "Tambourine", it's relative to the listener. She heard it different than others. Everyone here has a different opinion on a great song or a great album. So - that sorta thing is ambiguous.

I must say I liked her subtle MJ dig. "You could leave your kids with Prince." Ouch!

TrivialPursuit said:

databank said:

I don't put so much credit into her recollections since she claimed that the 1986 album was titled Under The Cherry Moon and that Play In the Sunshine had been sequenced to be a mere transition between SOTT and Housequake (when it was originally set between Rebirth and Housequake). I'm gonna listen to it with intererest, though

She was there. We weren't. A good fan would put a lot of credit into her lecture and stories, rather than mimicking Prince's bitter-betty statement about "Susan Rogers doesn't know my music". Boy, she did. She didn't just walk in and hit a button then go to lunch. She was there all the damn time. They joked, laughed, talked, worked together. If I'd trust anyone's opinion, it'd be an engineer more than a band member or manager or whoever. The engineer is there, all the time.

Im sure her stories are insighful however Prince was there too and if the creator of the music says she does not know his music then I believe there's a reason why he said it.

wonder505 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

She was there. We weren't. A good fan would put a lot of credit into her lecture and stories, rather than mimicking Prince's bitter-betty statement about "Susan Rogers doesn't know my music". Boy, she did. She didn't just walk in and hit a button then go to lunch. She was there all the damn time. They joked, laughed, talked, worked together. If I'd trust anyone's opinion, it'd be an engineer more than a band member or manager or whoever. The engineer is there, all the time.

Im sure her stories are insighful however Prince was there too and if the creator of the music says she does not know his music then I believe there's a reason why he said it.

Thank you. You can't just poo poo his opinion about her knowlege of his work. That is silly to say she knows more than the creator. She know some part of his music. It is wrong to dismiss his feelings and say he is bitter.

paulludvig said:

She's good on the technical stuff. Her interpretations of lyrics and speculation about artistic intentions are just opinions.

I agree.

Zannaloaf said:

luvgirl said:

The fact that Prince seemed to despised her commenting on what took place with his music, and he was implying that she doesn't know quite as much as she thinks she does, has left me a little jaded when it comes to her. Also, a lot of the stuff she said in books like Possessed has rubbed me the wrong way. They just seemed pure speculation. I'm not 100% on board with her. I would like to be fair and give her a chance though. We'll see... [Edited 12/10/16 10:59am]

some of these comments are hilarious. You have zero experience with Prince in any capacity, but you are making judgement calls on someone who did. Wow.

She definitely rubbed Prince the wrong way and you can't discredit that.

wonder505 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

She was there. We weren't. A good fan would put a lot of credit into her lecture and stories, rather than mimicking Prince's bitter-betty statement about "Susan Rogers doesn't know my music". Boy, she did. She didn't just walk in and hit a button then go to lunch. She was there all the damn time. They joked, laughed, talked, worked together. If I'd trust anyone's opinion, it'd be an engineer more than a band member or manager or whoever. The engineer is there, all the time.

Im sure her stories are insighful however Prince was there too and if the creator of the music says she does not know his music then I believe there's a reason why he said it.

Time Place and Circumstance People...!
Prince made that comment years after his association with Susan ended...so at the time he made it, he was correct...She was not privvy to what he was working on at the time, knew nothing about the process etc...

He had evolved further, and changed a lot ..SO !!!!

But in the years she WAS with him, well obviously she knew...as much as he wanted her to anyway...

Lovejunky said:

Lovejunky said:

Time Place and Circumstance People...!

Prince made that comment years after his association with Susan ended...so at the time he made it, he was correct...She was not privvy to what he was working on at the time, knew nothing about the process etc...

But in the years she WAS with him, well obviously she knew...as much as he wanted her to anyway...

EXACTLY! People get blinded by their purple glasses, and refuse to see the truth of the larger picture. Pretty ironic since Prince always talked about the truth.

I mean, someone who works as much as she did, up to 18 hours a day, if not more - to think she doesn't know his music is just a self-imposed ignorance. The lecture was wonderful. I'm digging into the Jam & Lewis one.

There's also a shorter one with Erykah Badu.

TrivialPursuit said:

Lovejunky said:

Time Place and Circumstance People...!

Prince made that comment years after his association with Susan ended...so at the time he made it, he was correct...She was not privvy to what he was working on at the time, knew nothing about the process etc...

But in the years she WAS with him, well obviously she knew...as much as he wanted her to anyway...

EXACTLY! People get blinded by their purple glasses, and refuse to see the truth of the larger picture. Pretty ironic since Prince always talked about the truth.

I mean, someone who works as much as she did, up to 18 hours a day, if not more - to think she doesn't know his music is just a self-imposed ignorance. The lecture was wonderful. I'm digging into the Jam & Lewis one.

There's also a shorter one with Erykah Badu.

Good lord yall get so emotional over these former associations. What truth? what larger picture? She put in 18 hours cuz that's what engineers do, any engineer would tell you that its not a 9-5 job, so what's so special about that? The only self-imposed ignorance is claiming to know the truth when you yourself were not there. You're just guessing what Prince meant and when he meant it. How is that truth??? Does anyone know why he said it? I'm open to more factual information, preferable directly from him.

I rather take Prince's THE CREATOR'S word over yours. We can agree to disagree, get over it. Its not a big deal. I'm sure she has key insight but I believe he made that statement for a reason.

Jam and Lewis are miles above Susan Rogers and they got the record to prove it and knew Prince for when he was 12 years old so yes I found their lecture great as well.

[Edited 1/1/17 16:50pm]

wonder505 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

EXACTLY! People get blinded by their purple glasses, and refuse to see the truth of the larger picture. Pretty ironic since Prince always talked about the truth.

I mean, someone who works as much as she did, up to 18 hours a day, if not more - to think she doesn't know his music is just a self-imposed ignorance. The lecture was wonderful. I'm digging into the Jam & Lewis one.

There's also a shorter one with Erykah Badu.

Good lord yall get so emotional over these former associations. What truth? what larger picture? She put in 18 hours cuz that's what engineers do, any engineer would tell you that its not a 9-5 job, so what's so special about that? The only self-imposed ignorance is claiming to know the truth when you yourself were not there. You're just guessing what Prince meant and when he meant it. How is that truth??? Does anyone know why he said it? I'm open to more factual information, preferable directly from him.

I rather take Prince's THE CREATOR'S word over yours. We can agree to disagree, get over it. Its not a big deal. I'm sure she has key insight but I believe he made that statement for a reason.

Jam and Lewis are miles above Susan Rogers and they got the record to prove it and knew Prince for when he was 12 years old so yes I found their lecture great as well.

[Edited 1/1/17 16:50pm]

Oh right, you are not emotional at all. Reread yer post. What's wrong with being emotional anyway? What bugs me is people reading all sorts of ancient tea and hating all over folks be they associates, lovers, friends or orgers. The interview is what it is from someone who spent 4+ years working for Prince.

purplepoppy said:

wonder505 said:

purplepoppy said:

Oh right, you are not emotional at all. Reread yer post. What's wrong with being emotional anyway? What bugs me is people reading all sorts of ancient tea and hating all over folks be they associates, lovers, friends or orgers. The interview is what it is from someone who spent 4+ years working for Prince.

Emotional??. I'm laughing my ass off cuz it's funny. Prince got hate for years here on ancient tea and other stuff people assumed so someone bringing Princes own words about her is worth commenting so get the fuck over it. And I actually have no problem with her interview.

I understand that you have no problem with her interview. You're writing emotionally about not being emotional. No need to tell me to get the fuck over it. A little too angry emotional, thanks.

purplepoppy said:

Zannaloaf said: