wonder505 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think I can put together a timeline for you based on interviews and such. Actually I'm glad you posted. This might be pretty cool.

LOL I'm outside the org all the time. I think I'm posting a lot more now, because it feels like limbo.
Prince is gone, were will be as an online community April 21st 2017

Good. No third party hearsay. Right from Susannah and Prince, and folks can judge for themselves.

I probably will post even less but I'll still lurk around and post as needed. At the end of the day he's gone and it kind of makes things less fun.

Well Prince didn't talk too much, I do have some interviews where he talks about her. I will post his quotes and hers in purple but along the time line in gray posts from others in the camp at the time.
Just to fill it out.
We are still talking about Prince, who said he didn't fire Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, that Morris Day because it was Morris's band.

But it should be cool anyway.

I think when new music or remasters are released the Org will be alive.

OldFriends4Sale said:

wavesofbliss said:

i would like to add that SMelvoin has said in print in at leat 2 books, that she believed TBO "was not exactly out thing/relationship but there is some of it in there." considering p's habit of overlapping relationships,this is most likely the case. vanity had just left him but not for another man; susannah was the one with a boyfriend in LA. "do you want him,or do you want me?"

---

the fans put more empahsis on which song is for what woman. fans still pick their favorite and imagine "she was the one!" if we know anything about prince it's that he was unable to have clearly defined affections and relationships with women. jill jones said it was like he spun a wheel to see who he would be with for the day,the week etc. that most definately includes denise and mayte and susannah(who appear to be the fan favorites for the love of his life). i never understood why people need to believe any of them were altogether unique or special in his affections. It seemed that smelvoin, mayte and jill lasted the longest because they were the most patient. that says everthing about THEIR personality and feelings for him, NOT the other way around.

---

it's crystal clear to me that denise was his "crazy bitch girlfriend"(she was only crazy and bitchy because of the drugs but still a nutcase) that had him sprung sexually. they were around the right age(early 20s) for it and she was as drugged up as she was gorgeous. and then she left him! every man i've asked about it says, "yep, we all have that one and you never forget em!" that hardly says soulmate love. if prince's letters to her,mentioned on another thread, prove me wrong i'll admit my error. likewise, mayte being on the payroll for 6 yrs before he married her and he controlled every single aspect of the relationship and wedding, including her dress, what she ate etc! just like soulmates do, right?

Vanity was the one that got away!!!! Lol! I just read Sheila E's book and I have to say, P was a busy, busy boy from everything I've read through the years. I haven't been on the Org for long enough to know all the Vanity history but it does seem that P enjoyed the following years with lots of beautiful women.

Mayte's relationship with P is the one that seems the most oppressive and controlling - a paid dancer for 6 years and then Boom, married. Did anyone else see the resemblance to Tom Cruise's romance and marriage to Katie Holmes (much younger, less successful/known woman with very successful, dominant older man)? And can anyone tell me if Susannah Melvoin is the inspiration for "Empty Room"? I just read that somewhere.

the idea that sussanah was being courted by gordy is interesting in that it could imitate the plot to Purple Rain, Morris being the Gordy figure in the movie. However, Prince usually wasn't any better to his people than Gordy was. Vanitys says the main reason she left the Purple Rain project was that they weren't paying her right, a complaint just about everyone makes against Prince. I just read last week though that Alan Leeds said that, at least with the Revolution, "Prince was very generous".
"

i thought the gordy thing was with jill jones

---

susannah had started working with quincy jones. he was putting together a female trio or some such and he told her that if she couldn't sleep trying to make the decision then she should go to minneapolis and see what would happen. she did.

---

i can't believe the vanity/magnoli story, if only because vanity talked about how jealous prince was. no way and hell he wouldhave kept his job after a stunt like that. maybe they meant william blinn(screenwriter) and vanity. who knows, anything is possible.

wavesofbliss said:

i thought the gordy thing was with jill jones

---

susannah had started working with quincy jones. he was putting together a female trio or some such and he told her that if she couldn't sleep trying to make the decision then she should go to minneapolis and see what would happen. she did.

---

i can't believe the vanity/magnoli story, if only because vanity talked about how jealous prince was. no way and hell he wouldhave kept his job after a stunt like that. maybe they meant william blinn(screenwriter) and vanity. who knows, anything is possible.

oh yeah, i remember about quincy and sussanah too. what was sussanah good at? I never really saw her play an instrument and I never thought she was anything above average as a singer. why would these companies be after her for? Maybe because of her sister? the prince connection? who knows. could she play an instrment at all? was she playing keyboards in the family vids? I'll look.

wavesofbliss said:

i thought the gordy thing was with jill jones

---

susannah had started working with quincy jones. he was putting together a female trio or some such and he told her that if she couldn't sleep trying to make the decision then she should go to minneapolis and see what would happen. she did.

---

i can't believe the vanity/magnoli story, if only because vanity talked about how jealous prince was. no way and hell he wouldhave kept his job after a stunt like that. maybe they meant william blinn(screenwriter) and vanity. who knows, anything is possible.

Right!! Thanks, for some reason Gordy wasn't feeling right. Thanks for the correction

PeteSilas said:

the idea that sussanah was being courted by gordy is interesting in that it could imitate the plot to Purple Rain, Morris being the Gordy figure in the movie. However, Prince usually wasn't any better to his people than Gordy was. Vanitys says the main reason she left the Purple Rain project was that they weren't paying her right, a complaint just about everyone makes against Prince. I just read last week though that Alan Leeds said that, at least with the Revolution, "Prince was very generous".
"

Yeah, I think it was BrownMark who didn't get his full pay till a few years later for Purple Rain.
I still can't beleive a speaking part wasn't given 2 him. I'm reading throught the original script and I don't think there is one even it cut scenes

DollyDagger said:

wavesofbliss said:

i would like to add that SMelvoin has said in print in at leat 2 books, that she believed TBO "was not exactly out thing/relationship but there is some of it in there." considering p's habit of overlapping relationships,this is most likely the case. vanity had just left him but not for another man; susannah was the one with a boyfriend in LA. "do you want him,or do you want me?"

---

the fans put more empahsis on which song is for what woman. fans still pick their favorite and imagine "she was the one!" if we know anything about prince it's that he was unable to have clearly defined affections and relationships with women. jill jones said it was like he spun a wheel to see who he would be with for the day,the week etc. that most definately includes denise and mayte and susannah(who appear to be the fan favorites for the love of his life). i never understood why people need to believe any of them were altogether unique or special in his affections. It seemed that smelvoin, mayte and jill lasted the longest because they were the most patient. that says everthing about THEIR personality and feelings for him, NOT the other way around.

---

it's crystal clear to me that denise was his "crazy bitch girlfriend"(she was only crazy and bitchy because of the drugs but still a nutcase) that had him sprung sexually. they were around the right age(early 20s) for it and she was as drugged up as she was gorgeous. and then she left him! every man i've asked about it says, "yep, we all have that one and you never forget em!" that hardly says soulmate love. if prince's letters to her,mentioned on another thread, prove me wrong i'll admit my error. likewise, mayte being on the payroll for 6 yrs before he married her and he controlled every single aspect of the relationship and wedding, including her dress, what she ate etc! just like soulmates do, right?

Vanity was the one that got away!!!! Lol! I just read Sheila E's book and I have to say, P was a busy, busy boy from everything I've read through the years. I haven't been on the Org for long enough to know all the Vanity history but it does seem that P enjoyed the following years with lots of beautiful women.

Mayte's relationship with P is the one that seems the most oppressive and controlling - a paid dancer for 6 years and then Boom, married. Did anyone else see the resemblance to Tom Cruise's romance and marriage to Katie Holmes (much younger, less successful/known woman with very successful, dominant older man)? And can anyone tell me if Susannah Melvoin is the inspiration for "Empty Room"? I just read that somewhere.

Initial tracking took place on 4 August 1985 at the Crosstown Circle Warehouse, Eden Prairie, MN, USA (three days after Splash, six days before Sexual Suicide).

It was recorded with the Revolution, following an argument with Susannah Melvoin.

PeteSilas said:

wavesofbliss said:

i thought the gordy thing was with jill jones

---

susannah had started working with quincy jones. he was putting together a female trio or some such and he told her that if she couldn't sleep trying to make the decision then she should go to minneapolis and see what would happen. she did.

---

i can't believe the vanity/magnoli story, if only because vanity talked about how jealous prince was. no way and hell he wouldhave kept his job after a stunt like that. maybe they meant william blinn(screenwriter) and vanity. who knows, anything is possible.

oh yeah, i remember about quincy and sussanah too. what was sussanah good at? I never really saw her play an instrument and I never thought she was anything above average as a singer. why would these companies be after her for? Maybe because of her sister? the prince connection? who knows. could she play an instrment at all? was she playing keyboards in the family vids? I'll look.

what is an average singer? She's a trained vocalist. She along with Jill did a lot of background work in the camp. Helping Sheila E & Brenda on songs like Next Time Wipe the Lipstick

When I think of Prince music especially the 80s stuff, I think if you had female singers who were had voices 2 big it would not have worked. It was a certain level of control and demureness that always made it work on early Prince music. Rosie Gaines on 80s Prince songs would not have been good. Shelby almost overpowering Prince's voice on 80s music would not have worked.

Obviously Quincy Jones & Prince knew she could sing. And I love listening 2 the Family album + many other for that.
But Quincy was courting Susannah in 83? early 84 and Wendy wasn't largely known yet, so that reason wouldn't be in place.

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

what is an average singer? She's a trained vocalist. She along with Jill did a lot of background work in the camp. Helping Sheila E & Brenda on songs like Next Time Wipe the Lipstick

When I think of Prince music especially the 80s stuff, I think if you had female singers who were had voices 2 big it would not have worked. It was a certain level of control and demureness that always made it work on early Prince music. Rosie Gaines on 80s Prince songs would not have been good. Shelby almost overpowering Prince's voice on 80s music would not have worked.

Obviously Quincy Jones & Prince knew she could sing. And I love listening 2 the Family album + many other for that.
But Quincy was courting Susannah in 83? early 84 and Wendy wasn't largely known yet, so that reason wouldn't be in place.

A trained singer?

i'm a well trained farter, doesn't mean anyone wants to listen. also, i listened to a little of the family yesterday, it's kinda hard telling what she had to offer as a singer, the songs didn't showcase much.

[Edited 7/29/16 13:03pm]

PeteSilas said:

wavesofbliss said:

i thought the gordy thing was with jill jones

---

susannah had started working with quincy jones. he was putting together a female trio or some such and he told her that if she couldn't sleep trying to make the decision then she should go to minneapolis and see what would happen. she did.

---

i can't believe the vanity/magnoli story, if only because vanity talked about how jealous prince was. no way and hell he wouldhave kept his job after a stunt like that. maybe they meant william blinn(screenwriter) and vanity. who knows, anything is possible.

oh yeah, i remember about quincy and sussanah too. what was sussanah good at? I never really saw her play an instrument and I never thought she was anything above average as a singer. why would these companies be after her for? Maybe because of her sister? the prince connection? who knows. could she play an instrment at all? was she playing keyboards in the family vids? I'll look.

i don't know if she ever played an instrument. she is/was an industry kid. her dad was a session player and then became the the president of the naras. mike melvoin had proably known QJ forever. nothing ever came of the trio so maybe OJ was assembling a group of session singers to be on call. that was not uncommon in the industry at the time. it essentially what she did@ PP. susannah and jill were the inhouse session singers and i think taj sevile was too, briefly. each one got a solo record out of it, even if there was no promotional backing for any of them.

wavesofbliss said:

paulludvig said:

wavesofbliss said:

i don't know if she ever played an instrument. she is/was an industry kid. her dad was a session player and then became the the president of the naras. mike melvoin had proably known QJ forever. nothing ever came of the trio so maybe OJ was assembling a group of session singers to be on call. that was not uncommon in the industry at the time. it essentially what she did@ PP. susannah and jill were the inhouse session singers and i think taj sevile was too, briefly. each one got a solo record out of it, even if there was no promotional backing for any of them.

I guess that's it. She had connections. First through her father. Later because of Prince. Nobody in their right mind can claim that she is an exceptional singer. [Edited 7/30/16 14:59pm]

i haven't heard much of her work, but i didn't hear anything much above average. connections mean a lot, really, talent doesn't. I can show you lots of very talented people who more than likely you'll never get to hear.

paulludvig said:

wavesofbliss said:

i don't know if she ever played an instrument. she is/was an industry kid. her dad was a session player and then became the the president of the naras. mike melvoin had proably known QJ forever. nothing ever came of the trio so maybe OJ was assembling a group of session singers to be on call. that was not uncommon in the industry at the time. it essentially what she did@ PP. susannah and jill were the inhouse session singers and i think taj sevile was too, briefly. each one got a solo record out of it, even if there was no promotional backing for any of them.

I guess that's it. She had connections. First through her father. Later because of Prince. Nobody in their right mind can claim that she is an exceptional singer. [Edited 7/30/16 14:59pm]

what is an experienced singer?
Was Whitney Houston an experienced singer when she got a record deal?
What makes someone an experienced singer?
Quincy wanted her, so he must have known she could sing. Quincy didn't sign people who couldn't.
She sang 4 Prince she sang for Seal she sang for a lot of others. So what is the issue? other than you don't like the Melvoins

PeteSilas said:

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said: A trained singer?

i'm a well trained farter, doesn't mean anyone wants to listen. also, i listened to a little of the family yesterday, it's kinda hard telling what she had to offer as a singer, the songs didn't showcase much.

[Edited 7/29/16 13:03pm]

seriously?

PeteSilas said:

paulludvig said:

wavesofbliss said: I guess that's it. She had connections. First through her father. Later because of Prince. Nobody in their right mind can claim that she is an exceptional singer. [Edited 7/30/16 14:59pm]

i haven't heard much of her work, but i didn't hear anything much above average. connections mean a lot, really, talent doesn't. I can show you lots of very talented people who more than likely you'll never get to hear.

There are also a lot of talented singers who all sound alike and have not individuality

Maybe you can't come 2 a conclusion without hearing stuff?

And if you haven't heard others with more fart talent, then how can you judge if your are a talented farter,,, you guys are getting a bit silly and catty

[Edited 7/30/16 21:59pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

i haven't heard much of her work, but i didn't hear anything much above average. connections mean a lot, really, talent doesn't. I can show you lots of very talented people who more than likely you'll never get to hear.

There are also a lot of talented singers who all sound alike and have not individuality

Maybe you can't come 2 a conclusion without hearing stuff?

And if you haven't heard others with more fart talent, then how can you judge if your are a talented farter,,, you guys are getting a bit silly and catty

[Edited 7/30/16 21:59pm]

well, i'll take a quick listen if you think she really had chops and know something i can listen to. Usually, i'm a fairly good judge of singing ability. You don't have to know a lot to tell someone has god given talent. I'm just saying she didn't show much on the things I've seen. she sounded about as good as most of the women prince had singing for him at that time. Wendy and Lisa couldn't really sing but they were perfect for the music and they had other contributions. I'll be honest, I always did miss the little extra touch they gave Prince's songs from dirty mind to purple rain. Lisa was such a cutie and so sweet that her vocals were a great counterpoint to the ever passionate one, prince. I'll listen if you know something good to listen to, other than that, i'll just put it down to connections. At any rate she's broke today so she hasn't been in that much demand.

PeteSilas said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

There are also a lot of talented singers who all sound alike and have not individuality

Maybe you can't come 2 a conclusion without hearing stuff?

And if you haven't heard others with more fart talent, then how can you judge if your are a talented farter,,, you guys are getting a bit silly and catty

[Edited 7/30/16 21:59pm]

well, i'll take a quick listen if you think she really had chops and know something i can listen to. Usually, i'm a fairly good judge of singing ability. You don't have to know a lot to tell someone has god given talent. I'm just saying she didn't show much on the things I've seen. she sounded about as good as most of the women prince had singing for him at that time. Wendy and Lisa couldn't really sing but they were perfect for the music and they had other contributions. I'll be honest, I always did miss the little extra touch they gave Prince's songs from dirty mind to purple rain. Lisa was such a cutie and so sweet that her vocals were a great counterpoint to the ever passionate one, prince. I'll listen if you know something good to listen to, other than that, i'll just put it down to connections. At any rate she's broke today so she hasn't been in that much demand.

I agree with you. She is an average pop singer/vocalist. To say otherwise you'd have to either be in denial or have an extremely narrow field of comparison. She is well suited as a background vocalist but not as a lead.

And saying she has just an "ok" voice isn't a slam on her. Some of my favorite artists have what would even be considered "bad" voices: Dylan, Elliott Smith, Victoria Williams, etc. The difference is they're essentially poets whose vocal delivery, how ever flawed, captures the essence of the song's meaning (Lisa imo, falls into this category). None of them would have been succesful as stand alone vocalists. They are bringing something greater than voice to the table-that certain je ne sais quoi.

PeteSilas said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

There are also a lot of talented singers who all sound alike and have not individuality

Maybe you can't come 2 a conclusion without hearing stuff?

And if you haven't heard others with more fart talent, then how can you judge if your are a talented farter,,, you guys are getting a bit silly and catty

[Edited 7/30/16 21:59pm]

well, i'll take a quick listen if you think she really had chops and know something i can listen to. Usually, i'm a fairly good judge of singing ability. You don't have to know a lot to tell someone has god given talent. I'm just saying she didn't show much on the things I've seen. she sounded about as good as most of the women prince had singing for him at that time. Wendy and Lisa couldn't really sing but they were perfect for the music and they had other contributions. I'll be honest, I always did miss the little extra touch they gave Prince's songs from dirty mind to purple rain. Lisa was such a cutie and so sweet that her vocals were a great counterpoint to the ever passionate one, prince. I'll listen if you know something good to listen to, other than that, i'll just put it down to connections. At any rate she's broke today so she hasn't been in that much demand.

Is this thread even about trying to convince someone?

Isn't the thread about Prince & Susannah's resolve of their latter split?

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

well, i'll take a quick listen if you think she really had chops and know something i can listen to. Usually, i'm a fairly good judge of singing ability. You don't have to know a lot to tell someone has god given talent. I'm just saying she didn't show much on the things I've seen. she sounded about as good as most of the women prince had singing for him at that time. Wendy and Lisa couldn't really sing but they were perfect for the music and they had other contributions. I'll be honest, I always did miss the little extra touch they gave Prince's songs from dirty mind to purple rain. Lisa was such a cutie and so sweet that her vocals were a great counterpoint to the ever passionate one, prince. I'll listen if you know something good to listen to, other than that, i'll just put it down to connections. At any rate she's broke today so she hasn't been in that much demand.

Is this thread even about trying to convince someone?

Isn't the thread about Prince & Susannah's resolve of their latter split?

look, you're the one who took issue with her not singing too good not me. I'm just trying to be friendly and say i'm open minded. ok, i'll just say she can't sing and what's more, it's none of my business but I never could see why prince was taken by her, I've said before my first reaction was that it couldn't be true. She's too average looking, but I guess if it happened it happened. you'd think a lustful, carnal man like prince was at the time would be strictly into sexpots.

PeteSilas said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Is this thread even about trying to convince someone?

Isn't the thread about Prince & Susannah's resolve of their latter split?

look, you're the one who took issue with her not singing too good not me. I'm just trying to be friendly and say i'm open minded. ok, i'll just say she can't sing and what's more, it's none of my business but I never could see why prince was taken by her, I've said before my first reaction was that it couldn't be true. She's too average looking, but I guess if it happened it happened. you'd think a lustful, carnal man like prince was at the time would be strictly into sexpots.

Look, you're the one who brought into the discussion

OldFriends4Sale said:

it's called sarcasm, do you live under a rock?

PeteSilas said:

it's called sarcasm, do you live under a rock?

no! r u always this bitchy!?

luvgirl said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Good post.

Yes it could have worked 4 Vanity too. The Vanity/Magnoli thing was that if she cheated with Magnoli he also fired Vanity. I don't know/wonder if he would have tolerated Magnoli into 1990.
I can't see Prince keeping him around after something like that allegedly happening.

Then of course there was the most believe reason Vanity left $$$ and Prince not raising the stakes for her. As well as the mind games she couldn't deal with. (I still marvel that she continued as friends with Susan Moonsie & Jill Jones)

I've actually never read an article where he said it was about Vanity. I don't remember him ever saying anything about Vanity after she left, except in 1998 I think when talking about 'Come' and his use of her vocals from an old recording. I'll have to scan through my stuff. I'm doing a PR era thread about the music now. I'm on the Beautiful Ones. So I'm searching stuff.

From the strongest rememberance was after the 8.1983 Dance Benefit show were he met Susannah officially he recorded the song. I believe it as Susan Rogers who talked about it, either he spoke to her about it or it was something written in connection to the recording of the song.

Just wanted to add a little more introspection on "The Beautiful Ones." I'm doing some research on Prince and Vanity myself and it just struck me that if Prince fully met Susannah Melvoin at the benefit show 8/03/83 ( going by your statement on this) and then recorded The Beautiful Ones 9/20/83 which it states in the Vault (and was obviously written before that date) that would have actually been perfect timing for the song on behalf of Vanity in regards to what was taking place at the time between them. She had just left him a month earlier for an expected higher pay offered by Martin Scorsese to be in The Last Temptation of Christ (which fell through in the end.) It also occurred to me that for the song to have been for Susannah Melovin, that was really a short amount of time to meet someone from August to September and be touched by them so deeply and to then write and record a song in the space of a month with the kind of lyrics in The Beautiful Ones and mentioning marriage no less. Not saying it couldn't have happened but it's surprising, and the time-line doesn't seem to add up in that retrospective. Which leads me more towards the song being written due to his break up with Vanity. Still in search of this elusive article where Prince said the song was not about Susannah and was about Vanity though. Seeing the article myself would definitely help to solidify my belief. If anyone has a link I would appreciate it. [Edited 8/1/16 7:08am]

The quote is from a Dec. 2015 interview with Ebony Magazine. It is pretty easy to find if you search social media.

wavesofbliss said:

PeteSilas said:

it's called sarcasm, do you live under a rock?

no! r u always this bitchy!?

hhaa

paulludvig said:

PeteSilas said:

wow, boy was I wrong I am eating crow and my hat right now, she really put it down, paul should have given her the mic.

she's really good with those harmonies.

Shame on you. Why haven't you warned Pete that speaking of any revolution era associate with anything other than awe and reverence is taboo, especially the Melvoins. it's against org doctrine.

That being said, susanna is over-rated....always was.

On topic, I have never seen any evidence that she was anything more to him than his other bedmates at the time, so what was there to resolve? Everybody questions Sheila while taking anything susanna says at face value for some reason. For example, can somebody post a pic of her wearing an engagement ring or Prince specifically saying they were engaged? If so, I will gladly stand corrected. Otherwise it's just more org mythology to me.