Is it too soon for whom?

Timing? Measured doses, eh?

The public will think…?

I heard Prince did the same thing when Denise died. That he wanted to release a portion of the footage of the Melbourne Australia concert that he had dedicated to Denise, but didn’t fearing the optics and thinking of it as being “too soon.”

So I would decipher his actions to mean that it depends upon timing and intent. Thank goodness he didn’t have time to think, over-think or re-think it prior to or during his performance.

His spontaneous unscripted actions, his emotions and motivations were in sync and therefore no one could question his intent.

Afterwards, his desire to freely release it was then hindered by time, now being both too late and too soon.

No matter what, even with all the good intention and second guessing of one’s true intent, with the passing of time all his associates, family and friends are all forced to analyze and weight their emotions against their motivations, as if they were mutually exclusive.

Let alone forced to factor in the criticism, the contrast and comparison of the skewed optics of an unforgiving adoring public and of the court of public opinion.

That same public whose judgement has been forever prejudice by their past association for which he was obviously a beneficiary, or that association would not have existed.

I have not really even began to read all of Denise’s unpublished books, screen plays and poetry.

I have no clue of what to do with all the items she left to me in her storage, but I have already been accused of things I had not even considered.

So right now, even before I finish this writing, I can feel the court of public opinion convening.

Guilt by associate, possession with intent to distributed, when all tribute must continue to be paid the same way or given away.

What are my true motivations? What am I selling or promoting?

Family sometimes are not the greatest fans.

Frankly, I never read the published version of “Blame it on Vanity,” it is somewhere in my storage, the multicolor text was distracting and gave me a headache each time I tried.

Now, I am forced to go back and read it to compare its contents to many other writings she left with me.

For example, for those who did read the book, is there any mention of Prince kicking someone in the head with the heel of his boot, pulling a gun on someone or having Denise thrown in a pool?

Denise’s written statements about low salaries, song credit, practical jokes, etc.… seems to support some of what others have said. In one statement, as if speaking with a member from the old days, they are commenting on the irony of Prince writing “Slave” on his face with regard to Warner Bros., and comparing his contradicting actions to their old business relationship with Prince, and how they have been treated.

I never met Vanity. I met my sister-in-law Denise for the first time recovering at the hospital in January 1994, nine months after marrying her sister DeBorah. Denise and I became very close friends beginning in 2005, I was her brother and referred to as “Toban my family” in her book.

On 02/15/16 I held her hand and watched my sister die.

For me her death it was unexpected and I have had to be careful to avoid making emotional decisions, especially regarding items left to me.

With that being said, when I have had a moment to stop considered her unpublished (tell all) autobiography, my consideration has only been with regard to whom it may harm. Patricia (has already told me) and DeBorah both do not wish to relive their childhoods over and over again; as I fear some these versions of her life story appear to be less spiritual and more detailed, specific and graphic.

Denise’s less than complimentary comments about Prince and or other associates I am not as concerned with, as it is only Denise’s opinion. And back then it was an opinion often skewed by a dizzying point of view from chemically elevated vantage points, or askew looking up from its inevitable plunge; and honestly, it an opinion of someone I never knew.

Everyone has an opinion, which others are free to deny, add to it or edit; someone always remembers it a bit different.

We are free to give audience, watch it, listen to it or read it, accept it, criticize or dismiss it.

For the faithful… there is never going to be a perfect time, and must keep in mind that people are going to do what they are going to do.

Deciphering their intent via their message, their choice of medium and the expense to get it is all that you can do.

Personally, I think most who are in the position to know have been silent to long.

I recall recently glancing over a letter dated in 1999 from Hal to Paisley Park, asking if Denise had signed anything back then that would now prevent her from speaking about her time and relationship with Prince in her autobiography.

Since I never read it I can’t speculate on the answer Hal received and relayed to Denise.

In 2012 Denise told me that she was leaving to me her tell-all autobiography, to do whatever I wanted with the books after she died, and she explained to me her spiritual reason and belief as to why she couldn’t publish or profit from the books.

It’s been 17 years since that letter was written, that’s too long.

However, regardless of everything I said in defense of past associates of Prince, for me… it’s just too soon.

TOB said:

Is it too soon for whom?

Timing? Measured doses, eh?

The public will think…?

I heard Prince did the same thing when Denise died. That he wanted to release a portion of the footage of the Melbourne Australia concert that he had dedicated to Denise, but didn’t fearing the optics and thinking of it as being “too soon.”

So I would decipher his actions to mean that it depends upon timing and intent. Thank goodness he didn’t have time to think, over-think or re-think it prior to or during his performance.

His spontaneous unscripted actions, his emotions and motivations were in sync and therefore no one could question his intent.

Afterwards, his desire to freely release it was then hindered by time, now being both too late and too soon.

No matter what, even with all the good intention and second guessing of one’s true intent, with the passing of time all his associates, family and friends are all forced to analyze and weight their emotions against their motivations, as if they were mutually exclusive.

Let alone forced to factor in the criticism, the contrast and comparison of the skewed optics of an unforgiving adoring public and of the court of public opinion.

That same public whose judgement has been forever prejudice by their past association for which he was obviously a beneficiary, or that association would not have existed.

I have not really even began to read all of Denise’s unpublished books, screen plays and poetry.

I have no clue of what to do with all the items she left to me in her storage, but I have already been accused of things I had not even considered.

So right now, even before I finish this writing, I can feel the court of public opinion convening.

Guilt by associate, possession with intent to distributed, when all tribute must continue to be paid the same way or given away.

What are my true motivations? What am I selling or promoting?

Family sometimes are not the greatest fans.

Frankly, I never read the published version of “Blame it on Vanity,” it is somewhere in my storage, the multicolor text was distracting and gave me a headache each time I tried.

Now, I am forced to go back and read it to compare its contents to many other writings she left with me.

For example, for those who did read the book, is there any mention of Prince kicking someone in the head with the heel of his boot, pulling a gun on someone or having Denise thrown in a pool?

Denise’s written statements about low salaries, song credit, practical jokes, etc.… seems to support some of what others have said. In one statement, as if speaking with a member from the old days, they are commenting on the irony of Prince writing “Slave” on his face with regard to Warner Bros., and comparing his contradicting actions to their old business relationship with Prince, and how they have been treated.

I never met Vanity. I met my sister-in-law Denise for the first time recovering at the hospital in January 1994, nine months after marrying her sister DeBorah. Denise and I became very close friends beginning in 2005, I was her brother and referred to as “Toban my family” in her book.

On 02/15/16 I held her hand and watched my sister die.

For me her death it was unexpected and I have had to be careful to avoid making emotional decisions, especially regarding items left to me.

With that being said, when I have had a moment to stop considered her unpublished (tell all) autobiography, my consideration has only been with regard to whom it may harm. Patricia (has already told me) and DeBorah both do not wish to relive their childhoods over and over again; as I fear some these versions of her life story appear to be less spiritual and more detailed, specific and graphic.

Denise’s less than complimentary comments about Prince and or other associates I am not as concerned with, as it is only Denise’s opinion. And back then it was an opinion often skewed by a dizzying point of view from chemically elevated vantage points, or askew looking up from its inevitable plunge; and honestly, it an opinion of someone I never knew.

Everyone has an opinion, which others are free to deny, add to it or edit; someone always remembers it a bit different.

We are free to give audience, watch it, listen to it or read it, accept it, criticize or dismiss it.

For the faithful… there is never going to be a perfect time, and must keep in mind that people are going to do what they are going to do.

Deciphering their intent via their message, their choice of medium and the expense to get it is all that you can do.

Personally, I think most who are in the position to know have been silent to long.

I recall recently glancing over a letter dated in 1999 from Hal to Paisley Park, asking if Denise had signed anything back then that would now prevent her from speaking about her time and relationship with Prince in her autobiography.

Since I never read it I can’t speculate on the answer Hal received and relayed to Denise.

In 2012 Denise told me that she was leaving to me her tell-all autobiography, to do whatever I wanted with the books after she died, and she explained to me her spiritual reason and belief as to why she couldn’t publish or profit from the books.

It’s been 17 years since that letter was written, that’s too long.

However, regardless of everything I said in defense of past associates of Prince, for me… it’s just too soon.

When Denise was faced with the same choice that you are pondering about whether to release this book the Lord told her to touch not the acursed thing and I will receive you. One day we will all have to answer to the Lord. There will come a day when every man will have to give an account. What does it prophet a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul. The choice is yours. She made her choice and it was a good and wise choice. Why tarnish the memory of this man, you will also tarnish the image of your sister in law as well. If your wife and other sister in law have told you they don't wish to relive their childhoods you should honor their wishes and the wishes of Denise.

TOB said:

Is it too soon for whom?

Timing? Measured doses, eh?

The public will think…?

I heard Prince did the same thing when Denise died. That he wanted to release a portion of the footage of the Melbourne Australia concert that he had dedicated to Denise, but didn’t fearing the optics and thinking of it as being “too soon.”

So I would decipher his actions to mean that it depends upon timing and intent. Thank goodness he didn’t have time to think, over-think or re-think it prior to or during his performance.

His spontaneous unscripted actions, his emotions and motivations were in sync and therefore no one could question his intent.

Afterwards, his desire to freely release it was then hindered by time, now being both too late and too soon.

No matter what, even with all the good intention and second guessing of one’s true intent, with the passing of time all his associates, family and friends are all forced to analyze and weight their emotions against their motivations, as if they were mutually exclusive.

Let alone forced to factor in the criticism, the contrast and comparison of the skewed optics of an unforgiving adoring public and of the court of public opinion.

That same public whose judgement has been forever prejudice by their past association for which he was obviously a beneficiary, or that association would not have existed.

I have not really even began to read all of Denise’s unpublished books, screen plays and poetry.

I have no clue of what to do with all the items she left to me in her storage, but I have already been accused of things I had not even considered.

So right now, even before I finish this writing, I can feel the court of public opinion convening.

Guilt by associate, possession with intent to distributed, when all tribute must continue to be paid the same way or given away.

What are my true motivations? What am I selling or promoting?

Family sometimes are not the greatest fans.

Frankly, I never read the published version of “Blame it on Vanity,” it is somewhere in my storage, the multicolor text was distracting and gave me a headache each time I tried.

Now, I am forced to go back and read it to compare its contents to many other writings she left with me.

For example, for those who did read the book, is there any mention of Prince kicking someone in the head with the heel of his boot, pulling a gun on someone or having Denise thrown in a pool?

Denise’s written statements about low salaries, song credit, practical jokes, etc.… seems to support some of what others have said. In one statement, as if speaking with a member from the old days, they are commenting on the irony of Prince writing “Slave” on his face with regard to Warner Bros., and comparing his contradicting actions to their old business relationship with Prince, and how they have been treated.

I never met Vanity. I met my sister-in-law Denise for the first time recovering at the hospital in January 1994, nine months after marrying her sister DeBorah. Denise and I became very close friends beginning in 2005, I was her brother and referred to as “Toban my family” in her book.

On 02/15/16 I held her hand and watched my sister die.

For me her death it was unexpected and I have had to be careful to avoid making emotional decisions, especially regarding items left to me.

With that being said, when I have had a moment to stop considered her unpublished (tell all) autobiography, my consideration has only been with regard to whom it may harm. Patricia (has already told me) and DeBorah both do not wish to relive their childhoods over and over again; as I fear some these versions of her life story appear to be less spiritual and more detailed, specific and graphic.

Denise’s less than complimentary comments about Prince and or other associates I am not as concerned with, as it is only Denise’s opinion. And back then it was an opinion often skewed by a dizzying point of view from chemically elevated vantage points, or askew looking up from its inevitable plunge; and honestly, it an opinion of someone I never knew.

Everyone has an opinion, which others are free to deny, add to it or edit; someone always remembers it a bit different.

We are free to give audience, watch it, listen to it or read it, accept it, criticize or dismiss it.

For the faithful… there is never going to be a perfect time, and must keep in mind that people are going to do what they are going to do.

Deciphering their intent via their message, their choice of medium and the expense to get it is all that you can do.

Personally, I think most who are in the position to know have been silent to long.

I recall recently glancing over a letter dated in 1999 from Hal to Paisley Park, asking if Denise had signed anything back then that would now prevent her from speaking about her time and relationship with Prince in her autobiography.

Since I never read it I can’t speculate on the answer Hal received and relayed to Denise.

In 2012 Denise told me that she was leaving to me her tell-all autobiography, to do whatever I wanted with the books after she died, and she explained to me her spiritual reason and belief as to why she couldn’t publish or profit from the books.

It’s been 17 years since that letter was written, that’s too long.

However, regardless of everything I said in defense of past associates of Prince, for me… it’s just too soon.

I hear you and it is soon not even 6 months yet. I will be praying for you and your family. Respect and love.

30yearfan said:

TOB said:

Is it too soon for whom?

Timing? Measured doses, eh?

The public will think…?

I heard Prince did the same thing when Denise died. That he wanted to release a portion of the footage of the Melbourne Australia concert that he had dedicated to Denise, but didn’t fearing the optics and thinking of it as being “too soon.”

So I would decipher his actions to mean that it depends upon timing and intent. Thank goodness he didn’t have time to think, over-think or re-think it prior to or during his performance.

His spontaneous unscripted actions, his emotions and motivations were in sync and therefore no one could question his intent.

Afterwards, his desire to freely release it was then hindered by time, now being both too late and too soon.

No matter what, even with all the good intention and second guessing of one’s true intent, with the passing of time all his associates, family and friends are all forced to analyze and weight their emotions against their motivations, as if they were mutually exclusive.

Let alone forced to factor in the criticism, the contrast and comparison of the skewed optics of an unforgiving adoring public and of the court of public opinion.

That same public whose judgement has been forever prejudice by their past association for which he was obviously a beneficiary, or that association would not have existed.

I have not really even began to read all of Denise’s unpublished books, screen plays and poetry.

I have no clue of what to do with all the items she left to me in her storage, but I have already been accused of things I had not even considered.

So right now, even before I finish this writing, I can feel the court of public opinion convening.

Guilt by associate, possession with intent to distributed, when all tribute must continue to be paid the same way or given away.

What are my true motivations? What am I selling or promoting?

Family sometimes are not the greatest fans.

Frankly, I never read the published version of “Blame it on Vanity,” it is somewhere in my storage, the multicolor text was distracting and gave me a headache each time I tried.

Now, I am forced to go back and read it to compare its contents to many other writings she left with me.

For example, for those who did read the book, is there any mention of Prince kicking someone in the head with the heel of his boot, pulling a gun on someone or having Denise thrown in a pool?

Denise’s written statements about low salaries, song credit, practical jokes, etc.… seems to support some of what others have said. In one statement, as if speaking with a member from the old days, they are commenting on the irony of Prince writing “Slave” on his face with regard to Warner Bros., and comparing his contradicting actions to their old business relationship with Prince, and how they have been treated.

I never met Vanity. I met my sister-in-law Denise for the first time recovering at the hospital in January 1994, nine months after marrying her sister DeBorah. Denise and I became very close friends beginning in 2005, I was her brother and referred to as “Toban my family” in her book.

On 02/15/16 I held her hand and watched my sister die.

For me her death it was unexpected and I have had to be careful to avoid making emotional decisions, especially regarding items left to me.

With that being said, when I have had a moment to stop considered her unpublished (tell all) autobiography, my consideration has only been with regard to whom it may harm. Patricia (has already told me) and DeBorah both do not wish to relive their childhoods over and over again; as I fear some these versions of her life story appear to be less spiritual and more detailed, specific and graphic.

Denise’s less than complimentary comments about Prince and or other associates I am not as concerned with, as it is only Denise’s opinion. And back then it was an opinion often skewed by a dizzying point of view from chemically elevated vantage points, or askew looking up from its inevitable plunge; and honestly, it an opinion of someone I never knew.

Everyone has an opinion, which others are free to deny, add to it or edit; someone always remembers it a bit different.

We are free to give audience, watch it, listen to it or read it, accept it, criticize or dismiss it.

For the faithful… there is never going to be a perfect time, and must keep in mind that people are going to do what they are going to do.

Deciphering their intent via their message, their choice of medium and the expense to get it is all that you can do.

Personally, I think most who are in the position to know have been silent to long.

I recall recently glancing over a letter dated in 1999 from Hal to Paisley Park, asking if Denise had signed anything back then that would now prevent her from speaking about her time and relationship with Prince in her autobiography.

Since I never read it I can’t speculate on the answer Hal received and relayed to Denise.

In 2012 Denise told me that she was leaving to me her tell-all autobiography, to do whatever I wanted with the books after she died, and she explained to me her spiritual reason and belief as to why she couldn’t publish or profit from the books.

It’s been 17 years since that letter was written, that’s too long.

However, regardless of everything I said in defense of past associates of Prince, for me… it’s just too soon.

When Denise was faced with the same choice that you are pondering about whether to release this book the Lord told her to touch not the acursed thing and I will receive you. One day we will all have to answer to the Lord. There will come a day when every man will have to give an account. What does it prophet a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul. The choice is yours. She made her choice and it was a good and wise choice. Why tarnish the memory of this man, you will also tarnish the image of your sister in law as well. If your wife and other sister in law have told you they don't wish to relive their childhoods you should honor their wishes and the wishes of Denise.

I disagree.

My decision is not the same as Denise's decision, which she knew.

Though outside the scope of this thread, my decision to release these books will not be influence by public opinion, and definitely not a religious opinion.

The problem being both my religious or spiritual decision and my emotional decision would be to destroy everything without reading; which is still and option, but not logical.

Right now I still can't read them, so for me it's Too Soon.

Denise and I were very close because of our similar interest of poetry, inventing, the universe for her and physics of me, but mostly for my knowledge of the Bible. Over the past 22 years she has always shown a respect for that knowledge and shared many of her new understandings with me.

There is no way I could tarnish the image of Denise or Prince with words written by Denise about things that happened in the 80's. Please!!! Denise was in Playboy and back then people thought Prince should have been (just to pretty).

They both have grown, matured and evolved over the past 30 years, so anything previously unknown that Denise documented, that might be outside the norm of certain sensibilities, can only reveal the magnitude of the temptations and the measure of the distance covered on their long spiritual journey.

Fearing what you don't know is a waste of time.

One of Denise's biggest secrets about Prince was that he was one of the most masculine men that she had ever met; and extremely jealous… at least where she was concerned.

For the past 20 years I have had a cassette tape of Prince that I though was insightful and funny.

Should I keep everything I have to myself?

The people who have worked with Prince should have always been free to speak their minds, give their opinions and be given credit or to able to capitalize on their efforts and their collaboration. Now more then ever.

The money, as always, is a measure of public interest.

Prince is a hard act to follow

so the interested public should be willing to reserve their opinion.

Furthermore, the sobering fact I thought I would be able to discuss some of this with Prince.

Too soon quickly became too late.

Vashtix said:

I hear you and it is soon not even 6 months yet. I will be praying for you and your family. Respect and love.

Thank You

Not too soon for all with regard to this thread. Just me.

The interest in Denise and Prince is valid.

Denise use to sign every little thing she gave me and say someday after she died it would have value. I made her stop doing it, but she still continually spoke of it.

Commenting here seems to help with the process of healing.

Again Thank You

TOB said:

mediumdry said:

Allow me to bring a somewhat different perspective.

From what I hear, Prince did not pay well as an employer. Also, the masters and rights are Prince's, not shared with anyone else who worked on some of "his" music. Moreso, Prince has gone out of his way to alienate himself from the public at large. In part because of his wish to own the masters and completely be in control of his own body of work, in part because of his wish for mystery, privacy and his practical jokes. (I actually think it was important what he did and he had a keen insight in how the music industry landscape was changing and was ahead of the curve, mostly to his own detriment in the eyes of the world)

This means that the window to actually benefit from any association with Prince (and there are large downsides as well, as you are never seen as an artist in your own right, but as "someone that worked with Prince, and he brought the real artistry")

So if they do not get that one last benefit of their association with Prince now, they are not going to get it later, as the public's interest will be gone. Same goes for the vault, the remasters plus bonus tracks will be bought in numbers, vault only albums probably less so. I am not even sure many of those will ever see the light.

The way Prince left things will most likely force a wholesale of part of it for tax reasons.

Of course, an easy way out is to just make all of the vault public domain, as it should be anyway. There is no longer a reason to give Prince an incentive to create more, as he is dead and cannot create anymore. Copyrights are there to create an incentive to artists to create, so they should be, at most, until death. Unfortunately, we do not live in that world.

Also, we do not live in a world where Prince is one of the greats, in most peoples minds. He is an 80's icon, not even as big as Michael Jackson. The window to exploit his music and legacy is not going to be measured in decades, like Elvis Presley, but, at most, a few years. We'll grieve for a long time to come, but we cannot hold it against associates to try and get a last paycheck.

I hope I'm wrong, but I can't bring myself to feel upset or angry at people that are trying to get a little bit of extra income before their association with Prince will only be held against them for their remaining years.

You can't be serious. That might have been true before his passing, but Prince is finally being recognized as the singular musical force of nature that he is. And I don't see that ending any time soon.

TOB said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

mediumdry said:

Allow me to bring a somewhat different perspective.

From what I hear, Prince did not pay well as an employer. Also, the masters and rights are Prince's, not shared with anyone else who worked on some of "his" music. Moreso, Prince has gone out of his way to alienate himself from the public at large. In part because of his wish to own the masters and completely be in control of his own body of work, in part because of his wish for mystery, privacy and his practical jokes. (I actually think it was important what he did and he had a keen insight in how the music industry landscape was changing and was ahead of the curve, mostly to his own detriment in the eyes of the world)

This means that the window to actually benefit from any association with Prince (and there are large downsides as well, as you are never seen as an artist in your own right, but as "someone that worked with Prince, and he brought the real artistry")

So if they do not get that one last benefit of their association with Prince now, they are not going to get it later, as the public's interest will be gone. Same goes for the vault, the remasters plus bonus tracks will be bought in numbers, vault only albums probably less so. I am not even sure many of those will ever see the light.

The way Prince left things will most likely force a wholesale of part of it for tax reasons.

Of course, an easy way out is to just make all of the vault public domain, as it should be anyway. There is no longer a reason to give Prince an incentive to create more, as he is dead and cannot create anymore. Copyrights are there to create an incentive to artists to create, so they should be, at most, until death. Unfortunately, we do not live in that world.

Also, we do not live in a world where Prince is one of the greats, in most peoples minds. He is an 80's icon, not even as big as Michael Jackson. The window to exploit his music and legacy is not going to be measured in decades, like Elvis Presley, but, at most, a few years. We'll grieve for a long time to come, but we cannot hold it against associates to try and get a last paycheck.

I hope I'm wrong, but I can't bring myself to feel upset or angry at people that are trying to get a little bit of extra income before their association with Prince will only be held against them for their remaining years.

You can't be serious. That might have been true before his passing, but Prince is finally being recognized as the singular musical force of nature that he is. And I don't see that ending any time soon.

.

Unfortunately, it is what I see. Maybe this is in the Netherlands, not outside of it, I don't know. People still talk about David Bowie. Hell, they even mourn Johan Cruijf (Football player, actual football) regularly. But about Prince they are quiet. People like the Beatles, Bob Dylan, various blues legends and jazz people like Miles Davis get mentioned a lot in influences. Even the Beach Boys! Michael Jackson gets mentioned over and over as the greatest entertainer ever.

.

Prince? It has died down. It seems everyone has moved on. The main TV entertainment/news program here has done tribute shows to many people that died. Prince? He got 10 minutes the evening he died and they got the news, with an insulting spoken word "tribute" by a rapper/tv personality, who had to look up information about Prince on wikipedia as he didn't know much about him. After that? hardly anything.

.

He is being mentioned as a sidenote. A wonderful anomaly. But more as curiousity than the main musical influence he might be. It makes me angry, although I might get to the resignation stage of grieve soon...

.

I just hope everything will get released. And I mean all of it. Rehearsals, versions, video, whatever there is, I hope it gets released. So that everyone can choose the parts they like. And soon, while there is still enough interest to make it commercially viable.

.

As much as I feel his music should be in the public domain now that he died (why should others make money of it?), that's not going to happen. So they should do it while they can still make money. Meaning, start this year, with some kind of big box of goodies before christmas and something that will sell (current tour? purple rain expanded remaster?) this summer.

Reading this thread, I have "Money Don't Matter Tonight" playing in my head...

things such as those mentioned in the OP thread , i believe , should be used to benefit those in need....as long as the charities r legit

WOW! This thread is mind blowing. I was such a fan of Denise's and of course Prince as well. If brother TOB, your still around, reading this, God bless you and your family. All the peace and love to you getting through this diffficult time dealing with your huge loss. I feel (in my heart) that her and Prince are now 2gether again..eternally, something i gathered by Denise's interviews that she wanted, to finally be reunited with Prince again.

.

It always seemed to me (and from what she said in her magazine interviews and book) Prince was truly the only man she ever really loved and maybe this was Gods way of reconciling them. I guess i'd just love to think that they had some kind of contact up until the time she died as well..again, just my gut feeling

God bless. xx

To TOB thank u for your moving and insightful posts, it must still be a raw feeling to lose Denise and now with the passing of Prince its like putting salt on a wound. I know u will do the right thing. Bless you

I just would like pics of them Prince and Vanity

I do hope some of the friends and families and old photographers will eventually share some- there has to be more than what has been shared so far.

Vashtix said:

I just would like pics of them Prince and Vanity

I do hope some of the friends and families and old photographers will eventually share some- there has to be more than what has been shared so far.

TOB said:

Is it too soon for whom?

Timing? Measured doses, eh?

The public will think…?

I heard Prince did the same thing when Denise died. That he wanted to release a portion of the footage of the Melbourne Australia concert that he had dedicated to Denise, but didn’t fearing the optics and thinking of it as being “too soon.”

So I would decipher his actions to mean that it depends upon timing and intent. Thank goodness he didn’t have time to think, over-think or re-think it prior to or during his performance.

His spontaneous unscripted actions, his emotions and motivations were in sync and therefore no one could question his intent.

Afterwards, his desire to freely release it was then hindered by time, now being both too late and too soon.

No matter what, even with all the good intention and second guessing of one’s true intent, with the passing of time all his associates, family and friends are all forced to analyze and weight their emotions against their motivations, as if they were mutually exclusive.

Let alone forced to factor in the criticism, the contrast and comparison of the skewed optics of an unforgiving adoring public and of the court of public opinion.

That same public whose judgement has been forever prejudice by their past association for which he was obviously a beneficiary, or that association would not have existed.

I have not really even began to read all of Denise’s unpublished books, screen plays and poetry.

I have no clue of what to do with all the items she left to me in her storage, but I have already been accused of things I had not even considered.

So right now, even before I finish this writing, I can feel the court of public opinion convening.

Guilt by associate, possession with intent to distributed, when all tribute must continue to be paid the same way or given away.

What are my true motivations? What am I selling or promoting?

Family sometimes are not the greatest fans.

Frankly, I never read the published version of “Blame it on Vanity,” it is somewhere in my storage, the multicolor text was distracting and gave me a headache each time I tried.

Now, I am forced to go back and read it to compare its contents to many other writings she left with me.

For example, for those who did read the book, is there any mention of Prince kicking someone in the head with the heel of his boot, pulling a gun on someone or having Denise thrown in a pool?

Denise’s written statements about low salaries, song credit, practical jokes, etc.… seems to support some of what others have said. In one statement, as if speaking with a member from the old days, they are commenting on the irony of Prince writing “Slave” on his face with regard to Warner Bros., and comparing his contradicting actions to their old business relationship with Prince, and how they have been treated.

I never met Vanity. I met my sister-in-law Denise for the first time recovering at the hospital in January 1994, nine months after marrying her sister DeBorah. Denise and I became very close friends beginning in 2005, I was her brother and referred to as “Toban my family” in her book.

On 02/15/16 I held her hand and watched my sister die.

For me her death it was unexpected and I have had to be careful to avoid making emotional decisions, especially regarding items left to me.

With that being said, when I have had a moment to stop considered her unpublished (tell all) autobiography, my consideration has only been with regard to whom it may harm. Patricia (has already told me) and DeBorah both do not wish to relive their childhoods over and over again; as I fear some these versions of her life story appear to be less spiritual and more detailed, specific and graphic.

Denise’s less than complimentary comments about Prince and or other associates I am not as concerned with, as it is only Denise’s opinion. And back then it was an opinion often skewed by a dizzying point of view from chemically elevated vantage points, or askew looking up from its inevitable plunge; and honestly, it an opinion of someone I never knew.

Everyone has an opinion, which others are free to deny, add to it or edit; someone always remembers it a bit different.

We are free to give audience, watch it, listen to it or read it, accept it, criticize or dismiss it.

For the faithful… there is never going to be a perfect time, and must keep in mind that people are going to do what they are going to do.

Deciphering their intent via their message, their choice of medium and the expense to get it is all that you can do.

Personally, I think most who are in the position to know have been silent to long.

I recall recently glancing over a letter dated in 1999 from Hal to Paisley Park, asking if Denise had signed anything back then that would now prevent her from speaking about her time and relationship with Prince in her autobiography.

Since I never read it I can’t speculate on the answer Hal received and relayed to Denise.

In 2012 Denise told me that she was leaving to me her tell-all autobiography, to do whatever I wanted with the books after she died, and she explained to me her spiritual reason and belief as to why she couldn’t publish or profit from the books.

It’s been 17 years since that letter was written, that’s too long.

However, regardless of everything I said in defense of past associates of Prince, for me… it’s just too soon.

Never heard about him kicking anyone in the head, pulling a gun on anyone. He said at the Australian concert in Feb that he had Big Chick throw Vanity in a pool.

I can tell you that Eric Leeds has gone on record to say that Prince's managers were sketchy with money and Prince actually said that the money pre-Purple was not as much as people think. We have all seen a signed contract from 1980 from a nightclub were he was paid $500.00 he would have to pay his band out of that $500.00. We also know from Jimmy Jam that he was at one time in a lot of debt to WB. I do not think he started to have a lot of cash until after PR. As far as Vanity's book if she was already selling it before he died I do not see what the big deal is if you sell it now. I do know that there will be a backlash as it will appear as a cash in and the estate may go after you if you have pictures or any copyrighted material. His estate is hugh and people on this board telling you that there is no interest are smoking crack. He sold out the Oracle arena with $500.00 ticket a few months before he died people are in interested in him.
---
For example, for those who did read the book, is there any mention of Prince kicking someone in the head with the heel of his boot, pulling a gun on someone or having Denise thrown in a pool?

Denise’s written statements about low salaries, song credit, practical jokes, etc.… seems to support some of what others have said. In one statement, as if speaking with a member from the old days, they are commenting on the irony of Prince writing “Slave” on his face with regard to Warner Bros., and comparing his contradicting actions to their old business relationship with Prince, and how they have been treated.

GeniusLuv said:

WOW! This thread is mind blowing. I was such a fan of Denise's and of course Prince as well. If brother TOB, your still around, reading this, God bless you and your family. All the peace and love to you getting through this diffficult time dealing with your huge loss. I feel (in my heart) that her and Prince are now 2gether again..eternally, something i gathered by Denise's interviews that she wanted, to finally be reunited with Prince again.

.

It always seemed to me (and from what she said in her magazine interviews and book) Prince was truly the only man she ever really loved and maybe this was Gods way of reconciling them. I guess i'd just love to think that they had some kind of contact up until the time she died as well..again, just my gut feeling

God bless. xx

I had always assumed they were not in contact and had never bothered to ask, until...

"Name Dropping" is an art form, for those that actually need to. Both Denise and DeBorah didn't need to and often spoke to me as they would speak to each other, both assumed I knew certain things and had been informed because of my close relationship with the other.

A "name" dropped by these two was solely for context and continuity for the story they were telling.

One day Denise talked me into going out to lunch and during a conversation she mentioned something that made me respond with, "U 2 R still talking?"

I could tell that my question caught her off guard, but she knew it was relevant to what she had just said, and she reluctantly said “Yes.”

I recently found a second handwritten letter that I have reason to believe to be from Prince, which appears to be a proposal/offer for them to have an understanding that would make it okay for them to be able to think about the other in a special way.

Intimate, is the only description that actually fits, but it also was a bit lyrical.

Someday I’ll post it word for word or post a pic of it as I did the other he sent her while she was in the hospital.

Goddess4Real said:

To TOB thank u for your moving and insightful posts, it must still be a raw feeling to lose Denise and now with the passing of Prince its like putting salt on a wound. I know u will do the right thing. Bless you

I now know so much more about Denise's past then I had ever known. Much more than I wanted to know, actually.

Thank You for the understanding.

TOB said:

I recently found a second handwritten letter that I have reason to believe to be from Prince, which appears to be a proposal/offer for them to have an understanding that would make it okay for them to be able to think about the other in a special way.Someday I’ll post it word for word or post a pic of it as I did the other he sent her while she was in the hospital.

Thank you for replying what a beautiful gesture by Prince I hope so too when u are ready to share and if not that is ok too. Just knowing that he reached out to Denise while she was in the hospital, and his tributes to her during the Piano & a Microphone Tour is enough. In the meantime take care of yourself and your family, and remember alot of us here and around the world are keeping you all in our prayers

TOB said:

GeniusLuv said:

WOW! This thread is mind blowing. I was such a fan of Denise's and of course Prince as well. If brother TOB, your still around, reading this, God bless you and your family. All the peace and love to you getting through this diffficult time dealing with your huge loss. I feel (in my heart) that her and Prince are now 2gether again..eternally, something i gathered by Denise's interviews that she wanted, to finally be reunited with Prince again.

.

It always seemed to me (and from what she said in her magazine interviews and book) Prince was truly the only man she ever really loved and maybe this was Gods way of reconciling them. I guess i'd just love to think that they had some kind of contact up until the time she died as well..again, just my gut feeling

God bless. xx

I had always assumed they were not in contact and had never bothered to ask, until...

"Name Dropping" is an art form, for those that actually need to. Both Denise and DeBorah didn't need to and often spoke to me as they would speak to each other, both assumed I knew certain things and had been informed because of my close relationship with the other.

A "name" dropped by these two was solely for context and continuity for the story they were telling.

One day Denise talked me into going out to lunch and during a conversation she mentioned something that made me respond with, "U 2 R still talking?"

I could tell that my question caught her off guard, but she knew it was relevant to what she had just said, and she reluctantly said “Yes.”

I recently found a second handwritten letter that I have reason to believe to be from Prince, which appears to be a proposal/offer for them to have an understanding that would make it okay for them to be able to think about the other in a special way.

Intimate, is the only description that actually fits, but it also was a bit lyrical.

Someday I’ll post it word for word or post a pic of it as I did the other he sent her while she was in the hospital.

Thank You TOB! So sweet of you to respond. It is the romantic in me of course that felt they were in touch...regardless of the reason, and now i know for sure, so a big thank you for that i believe its something maybe they both needed, like unfinished business, possibly? I don't doubt his love for (your sister) Denise, for i feel some things never end, not even in death. And yes, that would be nice to actually SEE his words regarding Denise someday...I don't think i have ever read anything Denise received from Prince here so that would be special.

.

Again, you and your family will be in my prayers and i hope, you find some solace in knowing MANY here love and respect Denise and her legacy and of course our Prince as well...maybe in the after world they are now 2gether..i'd love to think she welcomed her Prince with open arms in heaven and the two can have that special understanding now..i find that all so poetic.

.

Especially because Prince was visibly so heartbroken when Denise passed away (Melbourne concert) and obviously the comments he made of how they loved each other ''so deeply'' says it all

.

Thank You again TOB for your response....

Peace and love to you. XX

.

[Edited 7/25/16 12:15pm]

In response to Girlbrother's original question: now is too soon and I'm annoyed by those who seek to make money off a fresh death. There are several who are doing exactly that. So-called "friends".

[Edited 7/25/16 22:49pm]

GeniusLuv said:

TOB said:

I had always assumed they were not in contact and had never bothered to ask, until...

"Name Dropping" is an art form, for those that actually need to. Both Denise and DeBorah didn't need to and often spoke to me as they would speak to each other, both assumed I knew certain things and had been informed because of my close relationship with the other.

A "name" dropped by these two was solely for context and continuity for the story they were telling.

One day Denise talked me into going out to lunch and during a conversation she mentioned something that made me respond with, "U 2 R still talking?"

I could tell that my question caught her off guard, but she knew it was relevant to what she had just said, and she reluctantly said “Yes.”

I recently found a second handwritten letter that I have reason to believe to be from Prince, which appears to be a proposal/offer for them to have an understanding that would make it okay for them to be able to think about the other in a special way.

Intimate, is the only description that actually fits, but it also was a bit lyrical.

Someday I’ll post it word for word or post a pic of it as I did the other he sent her while she was in the hospital.

Thank You TOB! So sweet of you to respond. It is the romantic in me of course that felt they were in touch...regardless of the reason, and now i know for sure, so a big thank you for that i believe its something maybe they both needed, like unfinished business, possibly? I don't doubt his love for (your sister) Denise, for i feel some things never end, not even in death. And yes, that would be nice to actually SEE his words regarding Denise someday...I don't think i have ever read anything Denise received from Prince here so that would be special.

.

Again, you and your family will be in my prayers and i hope, you find some solace in knowing MANY here love and respect Denise and her legacy and of course our Prince as well...maybe in the after world they are now 2gether..i'd love to think she welcomed her Prince with open arms in heaven and the two can have that special understanding now..i find that all so poetic.

.

Especially because Prince was visibly so heartbroken when Denise passed away (Melbourne concert) and obviously the comments he made of how they loved each other ''so deeply'' says it all

.

Thank You again TOB for your response....

Peace and love to you. XX

.

[Edited 7/25/16 12:15pm]

Even I'm finding this interesting to know. Thank you TOB.

I just find it really satisfying knowing now that they did still have ''something'' between them after so many years, even if the rest of the world wasn't in on it...i guess some close to them knew, they continued their friendship, afterall The one other thing is-------------we need moooooooore PHOTOS!!! We only have these

[Edited 7/25/16 19:47pm]

mediumdry said:

TOB thanks for coming here and sharing this info, I am finding it fascinating to read.

When it's not 'too soon', if you ultimately decide not to go ahead with selling or publishing the material you have, please don't destroy it or sell it to a private collector. Please consider giving the material to an archive or library so it can be preserved and digital copies made available to the public who are interested to see it. Such an important part of music history. My bias as a researcher and academic is showing I'll admit. Thinking of you and your family.

luvgirl said:

Wow thank you TOB. I'm smiling from ear to ear right now with this new info. I've always felt that Prince and Denise had such a special romantic connection. They were a one of a kind couple. I have always admired your sister. She is my inspiration and what I aspire to achieve in my faith in Christ one day. She was on fire for the Lord! I remember when I first found out a few years ago that she became a born again Christain, how proud I was of her! You and your family are in my prayers, especially for healing and guidance in your decisions. Thank you so much for sharing this. [Edited 7/25/16 20:54pm]

Yuuup