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Thread started 06/11/16 12:26pm

GirlBrother

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How Soon Is "Too Soon"?

Please don't shout me down. I'm not posting this to be disruptive or insensitive.

I'm just genuinely saddened.

I realise that many of Prince's ex-associates aren't multi-millionaires. I know they have bills to pay, and the spectre of Prince cast a long shadow over their lives, after they left his life. In some respects he may have actually hindered their future job prospects because his stardom was so enveloping.

But how soon is "too soon", to capitalise on their prior involvement with him? Because to me, it still seems very very very much too soon.

I had no issue with Mayte using his birthday to promote animal rights. He obviously was no longer vegan, and apparently vegetarian before his passing. However, he'd evidently given that song to Peta to use as & when they saw fit. That's their call to use it now. Even if he started eating eggs and milk again, he wasn't eating meat.

And if Mani wants to raise funds to build a school in his honour... It's admirable. Why not build a school to memorialise him? Prince himself donated his own money to educational resources and institutions.

But...

Sheila E. advertising her pre-planned Latin music holiday cruise, as somehow incorporating a tribute to Prince is tasteless to me. The suites on the ship are being sold at like $4,000.00. There's no mention of any of the profits being given to charity.

Now, Susannah is selling "official" Starfish & Coffee t-shirts...

http://starfishcoffeeoffi...e.com/home

I know she's had issues with obtaining child maintenance. I know she's not a multi-millionaire. I know she's just trying to make a buck.

It just feels too soon.

Questlove is getting on my nerves too. He may not be using Prince's name for any direct monetary gain, but he's still raising his profile, every time he gushes about Prince like he was his personal proctologist or something.

It's only been a couple of months. I know that life doesn't stop just because someone else's does.

It just feels too soon to me, for some to be playing the Prince card.

When I've seen totally unconnected hip-hop, indie, dance, and country artists cover his songs recently, that has actually felt less mercenary than seeing those whom were connected to him selling t-shirts or holiday cruises. It felt real to see those tributes from disparate unaffiliated artists. It felt honourable and tasteful.

If or when The Revolution, The Time or The NPG tour, I'd pay to go see them. I'd buy merchandise at the stalls. I'd buy the t-shirts. But that's somehow different to me than what Susannah has presented. It would just feel different somehow. Maybe it's me being ridiculous.

Tell me that I'm wrong to feel this way, but tell me why; I'll listen. Just don't dismiss how I feel, because it all feels awful to me.
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Reply #1 posted 06/11/16 12:43pm

luv4u

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They all have other projects that creates and provides an income.

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Reply #2 posted 06/11/16 12:47pm

GirlBrother

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luv4u said:

They all have other projects that creates and provides an income.



I guess so. I don't know. It just feels strange to me personally.
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Reply #3 posted 06/11/16 1:13pm

Letsgocrazy1

I think some of his friends are cashing in. Shameful. But i do believe Mayte and Mani can do what they want. They were wives of his. I am sure they know him better than any friends or family members knew him. They know things about Prince the entire world will never know about him. Personal and private.
[Edited 6/11/16 13:14pm]
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Reply #4 posted 06/11/16 1:35pm

wonder505

Letsgocrazy1 said:

I think some of his friends are cashing in. Shameful. But i do believe Mayte and Mani can do what they want. They were wives of his. I am sure they know him better than any friends or family members knew him. They know things about Prince the entire world will never know about him. Personal and private.
[Edited 6/11/16 13:14pm]


Putting myself in Princes shoes NO i would not want my exes to do what they want in my name as they please, unless we remained friends. That would actually piss me off. But ill be dead soooo lol
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Reply #5 posted 06/11/16 1:40pm

GirlBrother

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wonder505 said:


Putting myself in Princes shoes NO i would not want my exes to do what they want in my name as they please, unless we remained friends. That would actually piss me off. But ill be dead soooo lol


But it's for good causes. I don't know. Is there a difference? confused

Is paying your own gas bill and feeding your own children a good cause?

I think there's a different element to when you're giving the money away, or taking the money to give people what they want.

It's this strange middle ground I find icky. I'll shut up. I'll buy a rotten t-shirt. It's a great idea for a tee really.

I just feel weird still about it all.
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Reply #6 posted 06/11/16 1:41pm

wonder505

GirlBrother said:

wonder505 said:


Putting myself in Princes shoes NO i would not want my exes to do what they want in my name as they please, unless we remained friends. That would actually piss me off. But ill be dead soooo lol


But it's for good causes. I don't know. Is there a difference? confused

Is paying your own gas bill and feeding your own children a good cause?

I think there's a different element to when you're giving the money away, or taking the money to give people what they want.

It's this strange middle ground I find icky. I'll shut up. I'll buy a rotten t-shirt. It's a great idea for a tee really.

I just feel weird still about it all.


Then why not do that before he died? Since he would not mind as many would say.
[Edited 6/11/16 13:42pm]
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Reply #7 posted 06/11/16 1:43pm

GirlBrother

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wonder505 said:


Then why not do that before he died? Since he would not mind as many would say.


Me or Sheila & Susannah?
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Reply #8 posted 06/11/16 1:48pm

wonder505

GirlBrother said:

wonder505 said:


Then why not do that before he died? Since he would not mind as many would say.


Me or Sheila & Susannah?


Im talking about the exes. Just humanizing the situation and putting myself in Prince's place.

I dont mind Sheila too much as shes been his friend for 30 years and was contunuosly touring and always highlighted songs she did with Prince.

Im not sure how I feel about Susannah's tshirt. Is this going to charity?
[Edited 6/11/16 13:50pm]
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Reply #9 posted 06/11/16 2:01pm

GirlBrother

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wonder505 said:


Im talking about the exes. Just humanizing the situation and putting myself in Prince's place.

I dont mind Sheila too much as shes been his friend for 30 years and was contunuosly touring and always highlighted songs she did with Prince.

Im not sure how I feel about Susannah's tshirt. Is this going to charity?


I don't believe either is donating to charity.

That's only half the issue though.

I get that Susannah isn't mega-rich. I understand she needs to make money.

This just seems too soon though.

Sheila?... I don't know what to think. She is a star. She'll have money. She's toured with a Beatle, not just Prince. Does she need to use his name to sweeten the pill of her holiday packages?

It's just icky to me.
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Reply #10 posted 06/11/16 3:53pm

wonder505

At this point fans should just determine for themselves what they will or will not support. Theres already a similar on this topic. shrug
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Reply #11 posted 06/11/16 4:24pm

terrig

GirlBrother said:

Please don't shout me down. I'm not posting this to be disruptive or insensitive. I'm just genuinely saddened. I realise that many of Prince's ex-associates aren't multi-millionaires. I know they have bills to pay, and the spectre of Prince cast a long shadow over their lives, after they left his life. In some respects he may have actually hindered their future job prospects because his stardom was so enveloping. But how soon is "too soon", to capitalise on their prior involvement with him? Because to me, it still seems very very very much too soon. I had no issue with Mayte using his birthday to promote animal rights. He obviously was no longer vegan, and apparently vegetarian before his passing. However, he'd evidently given that song to Peta to use as & when they saw fit. That's their call to use it now. Even if he started eating eggs and milk again, he wasn't eating meat. And if Mani wants to raise funds to build a school in his honour... It's admirable. Why not build a school to memorialise him? Prince himself donated his own money to educational resources and institutions. But... Sheila E. advertising her pre-planned Latin music holiday cruise, as somehow incorporating a tribute to Prince is tasteless to me. The suites on the ship are being sold at like $4,000.00. There's no mention of any of the profits being given to charity. Now, Susannah is selling "official" Starfish & Coffee t-shirts... http://starfishcoffeeoffi...e.com/home I know she's had issues with obtaining child maintenance. I know she's not a multi-millionaire. I know she's just trying to make a buck. It just feels too soon. Questlove is getting on my nerves too. He may not be using Prince's name for any direct monetary gain, but he's still raising his profile, every time he gushes about Prince like he was his personal proctologist or something. It's only been a couple of months. I know that life doesn't stop just because someone else's does. It just feels too soon to me, for some to be playing the Prince card. When I've seen totally unconnected hip-hop, indie, dance, and country artists cover his songs recently, that has actually felt less mercenary than seeing those whom were connected to him selling t-shirts or holiday cruises. It felt real to see those tributes from disparate unaffiliated artists. It felt honourable and tasteful. If or when The Revolution, The Time or The NPG tour, I'd pay to go see them. I'd buy merchandise at the stalls. I'd buy the t-shirts. But that's somehow different to me than what Susannah has presented. It would just feel different somehow. Maybe it's me being ridiculous. Tell me that I'm wrong to feel this way, but tell me why; I'll listen. Just don't dismiss how I feel, because it all feels awful to me.



I think because there's been no real offical 'home going' ceremony - except for that rushed cremation that kind of blindsided everyone.

I was watchin Muhammed Alis service and it was wonderful and healing. I know the circumstances were very different with Prince...but because there was no organized way to say goodbye it feels like we're stuck in a holding pattern waiting for more information ....

So yeah everything feels too soon, or weird because there's not been a ceremonius closure in a way that most people can connect to to say goodbye.

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Reply #12 posted 06/11/16 4:34pm

anangellooksdo
wn

Trust your instincts. They're good.

I feel the same way. And I feel like I want to apologize to Prince for this even though it's not my fault. I hope he's not disappointed. Maybe he doesn't mind because he's with God now and knows all. I don't know. Maybe he is ok with it.

For me? I watch my motives. They have to be 100% pure, and I know when they're not.
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Reply #13 posted 06/11/16 8:43pm

GirlBrother

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terrig said:

So yeah everything feels too soon, or weird because there's not been a ceremonius closure in a way that most people can connect to to say goodbye.


Yeah. That's probably a huge factor towards it all feeling too soon. There's not really been any collective good-bye yet.

It's only been relatively recently since the autopsy results were released. That was only days ago really, not months ago.
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Reply #14 posted 06/11/16 11:47pm

limoncello

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It's all really weird and feels strange, I agree. Would be nice if there were a will so maybe everyone wouldn't be scrambling. I just don't know.

On the Susannah t-shirt thing, the backstory seems to be that some unrelated third party was selling a Starfish & Coffee shirt for profit on Redbubble, and Questlove wore their shirt on the Billboard tribute, probably creating a lot of business for what is essentially unlicensed merch. But I can't imagine selling one shirt is going to generate a lot of cash, so the response seemed...odd as well.

[Edited 6/11/16 23:48pm]

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Reply #15 posted 06/11/16 11:53pm

Bluu

I was crying earlier yesterday so, I know I'm not the only one here still experiencing mourning pangs. So I respect what you're feeling. Personally, I've not seen anything so far with regard to his inner circle that I struck me as out of bounds or capitalizing on his death. I just wanted to say something regarding Susannah selling Tee-shirts, which surely sounds bad at first, but I recall her saying something in a relatively recent interview about how difficult it is for artists to make a living in the music business, and it sounds like you were maybe aware of the same situation she is finding herself in, struggling to stay financially even and still do what she loves and is trained at. Just as important may be that in late 2015, in an interview at Housequake.com, Susannah recounted the origins of "Starfish and Coffee" which she claimed to have inspired and co-written with Prince. I'm not aware P. ever denied her co-authorship. So, she may legitimately be entitled to make money off of tee-shirts promoting that song. It does feel too soon, of course...I'd rather not see her doing it, but she seems to have the right to do it, and if it's to help her support her children, I think Prince would find this forgivable. So I can too.

I think Susannah came close to marrying him in '85 or '86? Maybe someone else here can confirm that. Both she and Wendy have such a long history with him so it's not like we're seeing this tee-shirt thing coming from someone who really didn't care about him and only wants to profit off his name. At least, that's not how I'm reading the situation.

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Reply #16 posted 06/12/16 7:18am

Vashtix

Letsgocrazy1 said:

I think some of his friends are cashing in. Shameful. But i do believe Mayte and Mani can do what they want. They were wives of his. I am sure they know him better than any friends or family members knew him. They know things about Prince the entire world will never know about him. Personal and private. [Edited 6/11/16 13:14pm]

They are EX-wives; they need to take a seat.They were not active wives but ex wives and it has been years since they were living in the same household so to speak with Prince. They are not widows but exwives. It is uncomfortable in my mind esp. Mani she is married now and she is just too much right now.

[Edited 6/12/16 10:31am]

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Reply #17 posted 06/12/16 8:28am

sonshine

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Vashtix said:



Letsgocrazy1 said:


I think some of his friends are cashing in. Shameful. But i do believe Mayte and Mani can do what they want. They were wives of his. I am sure they know him better than any friends or family members knew him. They know things about Prince the entire world will never know about him. Personal and private. [Edited 6/11/16 13:14pm]

They are EX-wives; they need to take a seat.They were not active wives but ex wives and it has been years since they were living in the same household so to speak as Prince. They are not widows but exwives. It is uncomfortable in my mind esp. Mani she is married now and she is just too much right now.



yeahthat
It's a hurtful place, the world, in and of itself. We don't need to add to it. We all need one another. ~ PRN
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Reply #18 posted 06/15/16 3:01am

jaawwnn

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I'm a bit iffy about those t-shirts as well, althougn not enough to say she shouldn't sell them. Questlove though, he was tweeting about prince constantly before prince passed away as well, I don't see much difference there? Maybe he increased the amount he did because he's been listening to him more, like all of us.

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Reply #19 posted 06/16/16 1:04am

mediumdry

Allow me to bring a somewhat different perspective.

From what I hear, Prince did not pay well as an employer. Also, the masters and rights are Prince's, not shared with anyone else who worked on some of "his" music. Moreso, Prince has gone out of his way to alienate himself from the public at large. In part because of his wish to own the masters and completely be in control of his own body of work, in part because of his wish for mystery, privacy and his practical jokes. (I actually think it was important what he did and he had a keen insight in how the music industry landscape was changing and was ahead of the curve, mostly to his own detriment in the eyes of the world)

This means that the window to actually benefit from any association with Prince (and there are large downsides as well, as you are never seen as an artist in your own right, but as "someone that worked with Prince, and he brought the real artistry")

So if they do not get that one last benefit of their association with Prince now, they are not going to get it later, as the public's interest will be gone. Same goes for the vault, the remasters plus bonus tracks will be bought in numbers, vault only albums probably less so. I am not even sure many of those will ever see the light.

The way Prince left things will most likely force a wholesale of part of it for tax reasons.

Of course, an easy way out is to just make all of the vault public domain, as it should be anyway. There is no longer a reason to give Prince an incentive to create more, as he is dead and cannot create anymore. Copyrights are there to create an incentive to artists to create, so they should be, at most, until death. Unfortunately, we do not live in that world.

Also, we do not live in a world where Prince is one of the greats, in most peoples minds. He is an 80's icon, not even as big as Michael Jackson. The window to exploit his music and legacy is not going to be measured in decades, like Elvis Presley, but, at most, a few years. We'll grieve for a long time to come, but we cannot hold it against associates to try and get a last paycheck.

I hope I'm wrong, but I can't bring myself to feel upset or angry at people that are trying to get a little bit of extra income before their association with Prince will only be held against them for their remaining years.

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Reply #20 posted 06/16/16 11:50am

Zannaloaf

I saw Sheila'scruise announced well ahead of Princes passing.
The Starfish and coffe tee already exisred! I think -perhaps - she or someone contacted them and was like...ummm. How about we make it official. I know people who were wearing that shirt several months ago WITHOUT her name on it.

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Reply #21 posted 06/16/16 12:36pm

paulludvig

Zannaloaf said:

I saw Sheila'scruise announced well ahead of Princes passing.
The Starfish and coffe tee already exisred! I think -perhaps - she or someone contacted them and was like...ummm. How about we make it official. I know people who were wearing that shirt several months ago WITHOUT her name on it.

And she (I suppose you mean Susannah) claimed it was a terrible thing to do to sell those t-shirts. Violation of artist rights and whatnot. Turns out she was just trying to protect her business idea.

The wooh is on the one!
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Reply #22 posted 06/17/16 8:00pm

databank

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GirlBrother said:

Please don't shout me down. I'm not posting this to be disruptive or insensitive. I'm just genuinely saddened. I realise that many of Prince's ex-associates aren't multi-millionaires. I know they have bills to pay, and the spectre of Prince cast a long shadow over their lives, after they left his life. In some respects he may have actually hindered their future job prospects because his stardom was so enveloping. But how soon is "too soon", to capitalise on their prior involvement with him? Because to me, it still seems very very very much too soon. I had no issue with Mayte using his birthday to promote animal rights. He obviously was no longer vegan, and apparently vegetarian before his passing. However, he'd evidently given that song to Peta to use as & when they saw fit. That's their call to use it now. Even if he started eating eggs and milk again, he wasn't eating meat. And if Mani wants to raise funds to build a school in his honour... It's admirable. Why not build a school to memorialise him? Prince himself donated his own money to educational resources and institutions. But... Sheila E. advertising her pre-planned Latin music holiday cruise, as somehow incorporating a tribute to Prince is tasteless to me. The suites on the ship are being sold at like $4,000.00. There's no mention of any of the profits being given to charity. Now, Susannah is selling "official" Starfish & Coffee t-shirts... http://starfishcoffeeoffi...e.com/home I know she's had issues with obtaining child maintenance. I know she's not a multi-millionaire. I know she's just trying to make a buck. It just feels too soon. Questlove is getting on my nerves too. He may not be using Prince's name for any direct monetary gain, but he's still raising his profile, every time he gushes about Prince like he was his personal proctologist or something. It's only been a couple of months. I know that life doesn't stop just because someone else's does. It just feels too soon to me, for some to be playing the Prince card. When I've seen totally unconnected hip-hop, indie, dance, and country artists cover his songs recently, that has actually felt less mercenary than seeing those whom were connected to him selling t-shirts or holiday cruises. It felt real to see those tributes from disparate unaffiliated artists. It felt honourable and tasteful. If or when The Revolution, The Time or The NPG tour, I'd pay to go see them. I'd buy merchandise at the stalls. I'd buy the t-shirts. But that's somehow different to me than what Susannah has presented. It would just feel different somehow. Maybe it's me being ridiculous. Tell me that I'm wrong to feel this way, but tell me why; I'll listen. Just don't dismiss how I feel, because it all feels awful to me.

What do they mean "donated"?

The song was released 18 years ago anyway.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #23 posted 06/18/16 4:18pm

OzlemUcucu

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That song is not online anymore so I don't think it was donated. I think Mayte asked Tyka on his birhday to have that song donated, to promote herself and take advantage of that situation. I mean she is nuts, anyway.

Prince I will always miss and love U.
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Reply #24 posted 06/19/16 12:17pm

mediumdry

As far as I understood it, after releasing The Truth, Prince donated the copyrights for that song to PETA.

They can release it as often as they like, in whatever form they like. Mayte and Tyka do not have anything to do with it.

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Reply #25 posted 06/25/16 7:00am

simm0061

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paulludvig said:

Zannaloaf said:

I saw Sheila'scruise announced well ahead of Princes passing.
The Starfish and coffe tee already exisred! I think -perhaps - she or someone contacted them and was like...ummm. How about we make it official. I know people who were wearing that shirt several months ago WITHOUT her name on it.

And she (I suppose you mean Susannah) claimed it was a terrible thing to do to sell those t-shirts. Violation of artist rights and whatnot. Turns out she was just trying to protect her business idea.

Not exactly. It was someone else's idea! She just felt she was entitled to profit from it. They copied her lyrics, so then she she copied their idea. I think she since realised it looked at bit opportunistic because she is now saying that part of the proceeds will be donated to an autism chartity. The charity aspect makes me far more inclined to support the t-shirt idea.

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Reply #26 posted 06/25/16 5:10pm

paulludvig

simm0061 said:

paulludvig said:

And she (I suppose you mean Susannah) claimed it was a terrible thing to do to sell those t-shirts. Violation of artist rights and whatnot. Turns out she was just trying to protect her business idea.

Not exactly. It was someone else's idea! She just felt she was entitled to profit from it. They copied her lyrics, so then she she copied their idea. I think she since realised it looked at bit opportunistic because she is now saying that part of the proceeds will be donated to an autism chartity. The charity aspect makes me far more inclined to support the t-shirt idea.

It's not her lyrics. Prince wrote the lyrics based on a story she told him.

The wooh is on the one!
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Reply #27 posted 06/26/16 8:05am

simm0061

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paulludvig said:

simm0061 said:

Not exactly. It was someone else's idea! She just felt she was entitled to profit from it. They copied her lyrics, so then she she copied their idea. I think she since realised it looked at bit opportunistic because she is now saying that part of the proceeds will be donated to an autism chartity. The charity aspect makes me far more inclined to support the t-shirt idea.

It's not her lyrics. Prince wrote the lyrics based on a story she told him.

I know. I was just keeping it simple. As co-author of the song, she has "ownership" of the lyrics.

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Reply #28 posted 06/26/16 10:34am

limoncello

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simm0061 said:

paulludvig said:

And she (I suppose you mean Susannah) claimed it was a terrible thing to do to sell those t-shirts. Violation of artist rights and whatnot. Turns out she was just trying to protect her business idea.

Not exactly. It was someone else's idea! She just felt she was entitled to profit from it. They copied her lyrics, so then she she copied their idea. I think she since realised it looked at bit opportunistic because she is now saying that part of the proceeds will be donated to an autism chartity. The charity aspect makes me far more inclined to support the t-shirt idea.

This is a really interesting point. Unless she's working with the original t-shirt designer (and admittedly, this design is not terribly unique, just a sping on a widepsread design), she's basically done to that creator what they did to her - stolen the concept. Poorly thought out things all around.

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Reply #29 posted 06/27/16 7:08am

simm0061

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limoncello said:

simm0061 said:

Not exactly. It was someone else's idea! She just felt she was entitled to profit from it. They copied her lyrics, so then she she copied their idea. I think she since realised it looked at bit opportunistic because she is now saying that part of the proceeds will be donated to an autism chartity. The charity aspect makes me far more inclined to support the t-shirt idea.

This is a really interesting point. Unless she's working with the original t-shirt designer (and admittedly, this design is not terribly unique, just a sping on a widepsread design), she's basically done to that creator what they did to her - stolen the concept. Poorly thought out things all around.

Yep, that's actually one thing I didn't care for. The only thing she changed was the font! I completely understand her annoyance but I thought the rebuttal should have been more creative - at least "one-up" the person who co-opt the lyrics. She said she is working on more original design concepts now, so that's cool.

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