New topic
Printable
| |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
I know. When was this song originally written? Is it a ressurection or version of an old song?With all the speculation surrounding Prince's death i am wondering if they ever discussed drug abuse and addiction? Denise very publically admitted her drug abuse, her demons, her sad childhood of abuse, her unhappiness with her celebrity life...i wonder if Prince recognized in himself his unhappiness, sadness (losing a son, divorces, etc.) the physical hip pain he was in....and yes, his drug use, even if it was only because of his hip pain (or possibly) a medical illness.
. I just wonder if he ever turned to Denise, asked her about her journey, her abuse, addiction...what helped her get through it! I know her answer would have been JESUS .
I wonder, did either one really have the satisfying life they had hoped for??? I know he always had his music...but i guess what i am asking is did he look to Denise for an answer, did she truly find happiness in God??? I know she seemed like a very happy soul when preaching, always kind, loving, funny, welcoming, energetic...could she also have just been so grateful that she was able to live a lot longer than anyone thought possible and was living in Gods word, walking that path so completely?
. Or was it just safer for her, as opposed to going back..even a little..to a ''normal'' kind of existence, not that Prince and MPLS would be normal by any stretch of the imagination, but you know what i mean
. Just wonder if you think she helped him at all with his problems (even just over the phone, which she was known for doing) before they both died?
''The beautiful ones they hurt you every tiiiiime....''
 RIP BEAUTIFUL ONES: Prince & Denise 2016 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
The song was recorded in August 1985. The video was made in 1994 using the old recording and shown at his club gigs. Princevault says it was written after an argument with Susannah (of course it would say that) | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
It was on the orginal post a couple of pages back This is the history of "Empty Room": | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Have a look at Reply#1740 pg59 - 30yearfan has a load of really good points that link it to other songs (The Ballad of Dorothy Parker, Sign O' Times album) which was recorded 15 March 1986. . The Ballad of Dorothy Parker info (lots has been done with this) -also appears as a sample in Letitgo on the Come album (1994) which has Vanity sample of Vibrator (unreleased by Vanity6) where she's moaning between the tracks and in the last song. -It also got rereleased 21/4/2001 on ONA album -A video was released also 4 May 2001 -Originally on Dream Factory album and Crystal Ball album (both unreleased) | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I just saw that. I was wondering how reliable their information is and from who's perspective it was coming from. Thanks. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Somehow, I missed it! Thank you! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I wonder this too. She seemed very immersed in her faith, which really did save her from the hell she was living before. But in a real, human sense, was she open to love from a man again? It's hard to know. Perhaps she speaks about it in her book. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Thank you! I'm going to go listen! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
You know, I am still seeing post about Prince being over Denise or had moved on from her romantically and I see post about him being hung up on her or still in love, and honestly I can't help but see it from both sides. No one can really know how he felt about anyone because he didn't tell his business to anyone. I am sure some people in his close circle knew things and are holding on to his thoughts about they were personal. I, for one am a person who believes he still loved her and cared deeply about her. You can love a person for life, move on to another but that doesn't mean he didn't love or care for Denise anymore. I believe he loved her until the day he died and vice versa. The shows in Melbourne were truly beautiful and amazing and I could feel the love and sadness from him. She was a special part of his life just like Mayte, Manuela, Susannah, Sheila E., Jill, Apples and so on and so forth. I believe all of those women left their mark. I am so sure he loved all of them until the day he died as well. For me, Denise was his true love BUT I don't think they were meant to be together forever, at least not in this lifetime. You can have a true love and not be with them ever! You can love from afar. I don't think he obsessed over her or anything and he clearly had other relationships after her but I do believe she always carried a very special place in his life. As he said, 'She knew she was the finest woman in the world' and he knew that as well. He also said something years ago that she just made people want to look at her and no could talked like her.
.
I think people are misunderstanding this thread greatly because we are not saying Prince was obsessed with her or anything. We just think she was the one who always had his heart. No one ever seems to attack the Mayte and Susannah threads but I do see Manuela and Sheila E. threads getting the same treatment as Vanity threads and that's not right. Everyone has an opinion about his love life but like I said before, NO ONE knew what that man felt and never will because he took his thoughts and feelings with him to the afterlife. I don't care how close his close circle was to him, I honestly don't believe they knew every one of his thoughts and feelings. As I remember, his close circie didn't even know how sick he was before he passed. He was just that private and he kept to himself.
.
As for his music messages, Prince talked in code so I don't know if anyone will truly know who he wrote his songs for. Carmen E. even has a note with him calling her 'The Most Beautiful Girl In The World' which was the song he supposedly wrote for Mayte. I believe he sent that note around the time him and Mayte were getting super close. When it comes to 'The Beautiful Ones', it was said that it was about Susannah but in Melbourne he said Vanity knew about that one. Prince like to keep people guessing. He said that himself.
.
This thread was a healing process for P/V fans like the Mayte and Susannah threads. I wish people would let the fans grieve and come to their own conclusions about the ladies in his life because no one is right or wrong in my opinion. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I've just looked at "Empty Room". I think you've got 4 characters (2 x Prince, 2 x Mayte) . Red Mayte picks up feather outside walks into buidling White Mayte is watching her from the balcony (see her hand?) Red Mayte goes up stairs, feathers on steps. She goes to stage. White Mayte walks into theatre and is watching Red Mayte Red Mayte sees White Mayte - they stay in theatre looking at one another, dancing etc ... Meanwhile: Black Prince puts on black hat Red Prince is performing song with guitar (and continues thru video) Black Hat Prince in bathroom with her hair and he can't look in the mirror Black Hat Prince in black bath having a bubble bath with his trousers on, he's looking down (as opposed to WDC when he's engaging the camera and getting up) Black Hat Prince on phone looking absolutely miserable Black Hat Prince has a pink sponge in his hand and looks like he's having a bath? - again miserable Black Hat Prince resting head in his hands only see top of his hat Black Hat Prince writing 'Slave' on his face again thoroughly depressed Black Hat Prince picks up black and white jacket off chair Black Hat Prince now comes down stairs wearing all white with black and white checked jacket Black Hat Prince gets to bottom of stairs Red Prince collapses The Red Mayte then goes blurry Red Prince on ground - dead??? White Mayte alive Door opens Black Hat Prince takes rod with symbol on it (of what??), 2 others are left and closes door . I'm not sure what to make of this? Is Red Prince and Red Mayte really reflecting Prince and Vanity and the death of that???? And Black Hat Prince who's thoroughly depressed throughout is just now having to get on with it and White Mayte's left. . Ohhh... Maybe this is it! White Mayte is Vanity if she died from complications from the OD. It's her as an angel?? The video was shot in late 1994 and that would make sense she was probably very ill.
| |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I completely agree with you and if they listened to Prince's own words: In an Ebony Magazine article that took place in 12/15 he stated someone speculated who "The Beautiful Ones" was about and they were completely wrong. He said if people look at it, it's very obvious. "Do you want him or do you want me?" He stated that was written specifically for the scene where Morris is sitting with Apollonia and there'd be this back and forth. And also, "The beautiful ones you always seem to lose"; Vanity had just quit the movie. He states, "To then speculate, "Well, he wrote that song about me?" Afterward you go, "Who are you? Why do you think you're part of the script that way? And why would you go around saying stuff like that?" . He stated, "Nine times out of 10, trust me, what's out there now, I wouldn't give nary one of these folks the time of day. That's why I don't say anything back, because there's so much that's wrong." . They should be realising that most of the stuff that's out there is misinformation as Prince said. . I also think as it wasn't made clear the full tribute Prince made you have alot of confusion as I've said before and people either can't see what actually happened and they'd potentially have a closed mind to it if you tried to tell them anyway. Really, it's not worth worrying about - it will take awhile for the message to filter out. . I suspect when his book comes out you'll realise "The Most Beautiful Girl in the World" is for Vanity/Denise after all that's what he said at her tribute when she died "that she was the finest woman in the world".
[Edited 5/30/16 13:21pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Sunny I was going to post something similar. I think white feather Mayte may be Vanity. Not necessarily dead from overdose but dead to Prince because now after overdose she has gone extreme about disowning her Vanity days. . He had disavowed his name after she disavowed her name Vanity. I always thought Slave on his cheek meant WB but in this video it takes on the meaning of being enslaved emotionally to her. . Red Mayte character does not seem to be the woman he is pining for because she seems too young and innocent. She seems to be a potential woman in the future who might heal his heart however he leaves and goes out the door before they meet. . Someone in another thread about this video said it was meant to be part of a trilogy originally with 18 & Over, and Zanalee, then this video. . The angel/dove seems to be blessing the new relationship. Red Mayte seems clueless about what is going on (perhaps she is unaware of the importance of Vanity to Prince) . Her hat seems modeled on the Willy Wonka hat. Wllly Wonka also carried a cane or stick. This was also mentioned in another thread. [Edited 5/29/16 11:49am] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
My god your so right about the enslavement - I hadn't thought of that. . -18 & Over started as a remix of Come (again refers to Vanity) - recorded summer 1994 then shelved until release of Crystal Ball album (Jan 1998) -Zanalee (must refer to Vanity too) - recorded mid May 1993, recorded overdubs April 1996 - was in Chaos & Disorder album (9 July 1996) & The Undertaker VHS (6 Mar 1995) . I'm still leaning towards Red Prince has died because Red Girl has left him and potentially may die. Now you have White Girl and White Prince (who's a slave). White Girl is shedding her feathers because their love is dying. This is why the video works - whether she dies or leaves him to marry someone else. Either way she's gone and he just has to cope on his own. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Yes, I agree with a lot of what you've said. This thread is NOT a fan fiction thread nor is it a "Prince was obsessed with Vanity" thread either. We have been exploring the thought that Vanity's death affected him greatly because she is the woman who had his heart (that's our opinion). We've been looking at his music, videos, articles, and even things Prince said himself (at Melbourne Tribute). . It is NOT a comparison of which lady/ love interest was a better woman or anything like that. I believe he cared about his ex-wives and all the other ladies that he was with. It's just that there was something beyond that with Vanity/Denise.
| |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
THAT could very well be! I mean, they did tell her she was going to die. Perhaps the Empty Room is about her dying and what would what happen to him? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I was wondering what he was writing on his face! I had to keep replaying the video to see. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
purplegirl00 said:
I wonder this too. She seemed very immersed in her faith, which really did save her from the hell she was living before. But in a real, human sense, was she open to love from a man again? It's hard to know. Perhaps she speaks about it in her book. You know? I believe that in someway, she was not. I think when she dedicated her life to Christ for real, she found love in Prince again. I think she looked at her life in retrospect because you have to remember, she was the walking dead for a very long-time, and empty. Based on psychology and the result of addicts, people who have been abused, and those severely broken finding solace in religion, I'm finding it easy to believe that the love in her heart did belong to Prince. There's no reason why Denise would mention Prince in the portion of her new life and do so with dignity, respect, and love. I want you all to think about something, she never really hides her flawed time with Nikki Sixx with any joy or dignity because that was the pinnacle of her emptiness, the breaking point. Prince is truly the only man she's ever loved. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Red Prince did die but in this video I don't think he ever met Red Girl . I think she wanders onto the stage after the dove has left. I think he is still pining for the dove/angel/vanity fugure. White Prince goes down the stairs and out the door, then after Red Prince dies he reaches back in the door and grabs the walking stick presumably to wander around outside, perhaps the way the Kid goes off to ride the motorcycle while Vanity/dove escapes. . I wonder if Red Prince dying has any relationship to Christopher Tracy dying. ie SISIA. I sometimes wonder whether he is saying a version of himself died when Vanity left him. They broke up in April 1983. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I think it's signifying that he's continuing on with his current existence. That's why she's blurry because her fate is uncertain but she's gone.
Either way Empty Room is linked to so many songs, albums and videos it's not funny in the end from 1987 to 1998 with samples from Vibrator in 1983 (which used in Seven, Orgasm, Come, Poem, The Beautiful Experience, 21-24 The Dopamine Rush Suite) - he really liked to hear her have a good time! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I agree about White Prince continuing with his existence, and trying to cope. But his inner Red Prince has died. White Prince (Prince in real time) never is shown with Red Mayte (Mayte in real time). She is portrayed as a child, full of wonder, playful, too young to understand what has happened. They were not married or engaged at this time either. That would not happen until a year in the future. . I guess if you wanted to see this as a message of some kind, you could say that Prince was saying that even though Mayte is seen with him performing in his shows as his partner, his heart is still grieving for dove/Vanity. The film really does make him seem miserable. What was the song that someone mentioned about him taking a bath in pants? [Edited 5/29/16 12:38pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
| |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
OMg! I was just listening to Seven yesterday on Sirius XM and I wondered if that was her moaning!
I don't know if this helps but I know it helps me to view it as, no matter how dysfunctional their lives appeared to others they lived the lives they wanted to on their terms. It might not be a relationship that any of us can particularly comprehend or want for ourselves but it's what worked for them. . I do think they were in contact far more than anyone will ever realise. I think it's pretty clear to see where their potential rough patches could be, but just go back and look at the original post I first put up about Adore and see just how often he performed that song live (Reply#1107 Pg37). Every time he sang that he wouldn't have been able not to think about her. And really she's been so sick on and off do you really think a guy who's written all these songs using her as a muse wouldn't be looking out for her? And don't forget they run in some pretty tight circles with well connected friends - Eddie Murphy springs to mind (didn't he date her sister?) etc. I think he was doing alot out near where she lived too for a long time as he was heavily involved in charities in Oakland (the solar power set up for peoples homes etc) and he did live/work/record out there too at different points. . You would assume that she would be reciprocating. And if you want to follow what he's saying in his music just look at Revelation where he says "It seems like you've always been here, now that you are, stay with me forever my dear". It appears that they reconciled on some level and got on the one page, that was recorded in the summer 2014. . And really what a blessing even after all the upheaval of her death, he even got to say goodbye on his own terms - to places that mattered to both of them - California (where they met & worked & her home), Canada (where she was from), Minneapolis (his home & family). . I hope that helps [Edited 5/29/16 13:45pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
[Edited 5/29/16 14:03pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
The Ballad of Dorothy Parker | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
After watching all 3 videos here's my first take on them. . 1 - 18 & Over - This is about wild sex and orgies with groupies. 2 - Zanalee - In this video he is shown with the twins..I think this is D&P and he invites them to his house and they have a threesome. We know that Prince had threesomes with bandmembers on Lovesexy and SOTT tours. 3 - Empty Room. This is the final in the trilogy. He is alone in his enormous mansion and pining for the dove. This is Prince's emotional state when he is alone. He misses her and can't stop thinking about her. Mayte is shown as the young innocent naif that will redeem him for love in the future. Vanity as the dove/angel approves of this relationship because it is pure. But it has not happened yet. First the inner Prince who pines for her dies. Prince in real time goes out the door and continues his life. The relationship with Mayte here appears to be a potential good thing that does not occur in the video. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Thanks I took a look at that and my interpretation of the pants on is sex without emotional involvement. I know there are different ways to interpret it but in that song he seems to be ok with an affair as long as it does not mean deeper involvement. He'll 'sample' women that offer themselves to him with no strings attached. It's a relief because the fighting in the involved relationship was exhausting (violent room). . So in the video I would say he is not deeply involved with anyone, he is still pining for the woman who left him. To bathe with no pants on is to expose yourself emotionally, to be vulnerable. I know some people want to make it be literal sex but we know he had full sex with lots of people. . I think this says to me he was still deeply in love with Vanity in 1994. The sex with groupies etc meant nothing to him. It just put him in a better mood. Its ironic that after she marries the very month this film is shown in March 95, that he plunges into a romantic relationship with Mayte. He was holding back emotionally from Mayte before. Now that Vanity is truly gone, he pursues the relationship with Mayte. . I wonder if Prince ever sent these songs and videos to Vanity before showing them? In Strange but True he says he sent her a song ie on a tape to speak to her. [Edited 5/29/16 13:09pm] [Edited 5/29/16 13:11pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
beachy said: After watching all 3 videos here's my first take on them. . 1 - 18 & Over - This is about wild sex and orgies with groupies. 2 - Zanalee - In this video he is shown with the twins..I think this is D&P and he invites them to his house and they have a threesome. We know that Prince had threesomes with bandmembers on Lovesexy and SOTT tours. 3 - Empty Room. This is the final in the trilogy. He is alone in his enormous mansion and pining for the dove. This is Prince's emotional state when he is alone. He misses her and can't stop thinking about her. Mayte is shown as the young innocent naif that will redeem him for love in the future. Vanity as the dove/angel approves of this relationship because it is pure. But it has not happened yet. First the inner Prince who pines for her dies. Prince in real time goes out the door and continues his life. The relationship with Mayte here appears to be a potential good thing that does not occur in the video. Literal or figurative threesomes? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
That is my favorite line. . Maybe some sort of reconciliation- again on their own terms. Who cares about "the army of haters". | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
God what a combination - all three were shown as part of the UK tour in March 1995 when Vanity got married - all to a back drop of aggressive rock guitar. She completely screwed with his head He just seems really angry and aggressive in 18 & Over - it feels all off and Mayte's dancing around like a stripper while he's on a bed with two other girls. He seems very controlling and detached in Zannalee and there's identical twins in bed (same staircase) He seems incredibly depressed in Empty Room and he dies in the video. Sad.
[Edited 5/29/16 17:14pm] [Edited 5/29/16 19:59pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |