wizardtelly said:

Hi guys, I'm quite sad about our new discoveries in here, touched rather. I am 23, and although I never got a chance to meet either Prince or Vanity(Denise), I feel their connection in my soul. It just cannot be a coincidence that it is in their 57th year that they pass, weeks apart. I know some things in life are inexplainable, but the reasons why things happen are explainable at a later point in time even if it's to be retrospective. He was meant to meet her that night at the AMA's, and she was meant to meet him, and accept the quirks of his personality while he did the same to her. He could have found and made another woman Vanity, but it was meant to be Miss Matthews. She was "Vanity" because she was the internal flame that he had inside, and she him. I know a lot of this is not something we may ever be told for certain, but it has been of great comfort. I wonder too, how he felt when reading and hearing, "She loved and respected Prince until the day she died," soul crushed, maybe. I never downplay his love with other women, in fact I feel he loved many times, but as usual, it is proven that together in eternity is where they were meant to be. I think something spiritually evoked them to pass so close together. I don't think it was a spiritual was, but I think it was meant to be. I just wish they could have seen eachOther face to face, just one last time. It's quite funny, both looked so youthful at 57. Prince of course, but Denise as well. Denise makes me laugh, because when I picture Prince as a normal man, I see him so clearly with her in all of her womanly and godly glory. She looked great for her age, and he too. She aged appropriately and I love to see that. All of this has somewhat made me depressed, but happy simultaneously. I think they fulfilled their life purposes. Something came in my mind whilst listening to an Amy Winehouse tune (that I dedicated to Prince in my long car drive this morning), and that was: Life is a 360, too many don't get to make a 180. But.. Both Denise and Prince did. I don't think we looked too deep, I think we looked just wonderfully and kindly. It is safe to say he loved Vanity, and dare I say who he loved more, was Denise. Deep down, I think he was reflecting on what it would have been like if he had a family with her, and somehow it seems that's what hurt him so bad. "We need a new story now," the possibilities weren't always endless but there was hope that in another world, he could make it happen. It is a fantasy that never left him, and for that I am saddened. I also wonder if she was ever pregnant with child while with him, there is something that really bonded them together in a metaphysical way.

That is what haunts and perplexes for me - all these years and it never left him ever . . .

beachy said:

SunnyGirl8 said:

I think it was 1999. I'm not sure who he was with then?

If you're talking about Eye Hate U that was 94/95

No it was the Hot Wit U (Nasty Girl song) but thanks anyway

I don't think they needed tangible external things like weddings or babies because the resonance between their spirits was so strong. It somehow made their relationship more pure, and the fact that they were also perfectly compatible sexually. Prince always uses sex to talk about her.

[Edited 5/27/16 22:04pm]

Ok this is what I worked out today… please give me your thoughts…

I mentioned a couple of pages back Breakdown was the last song that Prince stated was his favourite. I interpret the song is as him being very vulnerable, reflecting on lost love, lamenting his priorities/choices, how that screwed up everything with her and how she inspired his writing. Also, that he's aware of how she's changed him "breaking him down", that he's ready for her now (the door is open - he's changed), he wants her to see that and he isn't going anywhere/he's not going to walk away.

When I looked into further, I realised Breakdown has been compared to another song "Empty Room" that he wrote in 1985. Supposedly, it was about Susannah but I think it was about Vanity.

This is the history of "Empty Room":
4 Aug 1985 Studio recording (not released) - Written for Vanity
Mid-late March 1992 Studio re-recording (not released) - Vanity becoming religious
Late 1994 Video version made (using 1985 recording) - Vanity OD? Rejects him?
March 1995 Video shown in UK tour (3-30 Mar 1995) - Vanity gets married 26 March 1995

The video hasn't been shown since then but he's very fond of this song he keeps rerecording it in live performances (2002, 2011, 2014) and has performed it occasionally in live shows in 2002, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2014. It's weird as there still hasn't been a studio release of the song. I think this could be another ‘special’ Vanity song like Adore only this isn't about love, it's about her breaking his heart.

In the video, he looks so sad and he's floundeering around in bath with his trousers on like in When Doves Cry only he looks miserable! This is the video (Mayte is in it - it's not about her).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3DlEmXkIss

[Edited 5/27/16 22:34pm]

[Edited 5/28/16 6:53am]

beachy said:

I don't think they needed tangible external things like weddings or babies because the resonance between their spirits was so strong. It somehow made their relationship more pure, and the fact that they were also perfectly compatible sexually. Prince always uses sex to talk about her.

[Edited 5/27/16 22:04pm]

They were halves of one soul

twin souls

Sex is the joining of the souls

SunnyGirl8 said:

Ok this is what I worked out today… please give me your thoughts…

I mentioned a couple of pages back Breakdown was the last song that Prince stated was his favourite. I interpret the song is as him being very vulnerable, reflecting on lost love, lamenting his priorities/choices, how that screwed up everything with her and how she inspired his writing. Also, that he's aware of how she's changed him "breaking him down", that he's ready for her now (the door is open - he's changed), he wants her to see that and he isn't going anywhere/he's not going to walk away.

When I looked into further, I realised Breakdown has been compared to another song "Empty Room" that he wrote in 1985. Supposedly, it was about Susannah but I think it was about Vanity.

This is the history of "Empty Room":
4 Aug 1985 Studio recording (not released) - Written for Vanity
Mid-late March 1992 Studio re-recording (not released) - Vanity becoming religious
Late 1994 Video version made (using 1985 recording) - Vanity OD? Rejects him?
March 1995 Video shown in UK tour (3-30 Mar 1995) - Vanity gets married 26 March 1995

The video hasn't been shown since then but he's very fond of this song he keeps rerecording it in live performances (2002, 2011, 2014) and has performed it occasionally in live shows in 2002, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2014. It's weird as there still hasn't had a studio release of the song. I think this could be another ‘special’ Vanity song like Adore.

In the video, he looks so sad and he's floundering around in bath with his trousers on like in When Doves Cry only he looks miserable! This is the video (Mayte is in it - it's not about her).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3DlEmXkIss

I'm starting to think more and more that this privacy thing he had was because he didn't want people analysing his writing and being able to link it to his personal life. He’s transparent - his writing is completely autobiographical - it's just all about her!

Following that thought -

would there be a Purple Rain if he hadn't met Vanity?

One thing we haven't talked about is WHO told Prince that Vanity died and if no one explicitly told him, how did he find out?

I also wonder what is reaction to the news was? So much other stuff has come out, but not that.

Vashtix said:

SunnyGirl8 said:

Ok this is what I worked out today… please give me your thoughts…

I mentioned a couple of pages back Breakdown was the last song that Prince stated was his favourite. I interpret the song is as him being very vulnerable, reflecting on lost love, lamenting his priorities/choices, how that screwed up everything with her and how she inspired his writing. Also, that he's aware of how she's changed him "breaking him down", that he's ready for her now (the door is open - he's changed), he wants her to see that and he isn't going anywhere/he's not going to walk away.

When I looked into further, I realised Breakdown has been compared to another song "Empty Room" that he wrote in 1985. Supposedly, it was about Susannah but I think it was about Vanity.

This is the history of "Empty Room":
4 Aug 1985 Studio recording (not released) - Written for Vanity
Mid-late March 1992 Studio re-recording (not released) - Vanity becoming religious
Late 1994 Video version made (using 1985 recording) - Vanity OD? Rejects him?
March 1995 Video shown in UK tour (3-30 Mar 1995) - Vanity gets married 26 March 1995

The video hasn't been shown since then but he's very fond of this song he keeps rerecording it in live performances (2002, 2011, 2014) and has performed it occasionally in live shows in 2002, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2014. It's weird as there still hasn't been a studio release of the song. I think this could be another ‘special’ Vanity song like Adore.

In the video, he looks so sad and he's floundering around in bath with his trousers on like in When Doves Cry only he looks miserable! This is the video (Mayte is in it - it's not about her).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3DlEmXkIss

Following that thought -

would there be a Purple Rain if he hadn't met Vanity?

Probably not, she's kind of integral to the story and she wanted to be in films.

[Edited 5/28/16 6:54am]

scriptgirl said:

One thing we haven't talked about is WHO told Prince that Vanity died and if no one explicitly told him, how did he find out?

I also wonder what is reaction to the news was? So much other stuff has come out, but not that.

Great questions, did someone contact him from the states or did one of his staff tell him the bad news?

[Edited 5/27/16 22:26pm]

Vashtix said:

wizardtelly said:

Hi guys, I'm quite sad about our new discoveries in here, touched rather. I am 23, and although I never got a chance to meet either Prince or Vanity(Denise), I feel their connection in my soul. It just cannot be a coincidence that it is in their 57th year that they pass, weeks apart. I know some things in life are inexplainable, but the reasons why things happen are explainable at a later point in time even if it's to be retrospective. He was meant to meet her that night at the AMA's, and she was meant to meet him, and accept the quirks of his personality while he did the same to her. He could have found and made another woman Vanity, but it was meant to be Miss Matthews. She was "Vanity" because she was the internal flame that he had inside, and she him. I know a lot of this is not something we may ever be told for certain, but it has been of great comfort. I wonder too, how he felt when reading and hearing, "She loved and respected Prince until the day she died," soul crushed, maybe. I never downplay his love with other women, in fact I feel he loved many times, but as usual, it is proven that together in eternity is where they were meant to be. I think something spiritually evoked them to pass so close together. I don't think it was a spiritual was, but I think it was meant to be. I just wish they could have seen eachOther face to face, just one last time. It's quite funny, both looked so youthful at 57. Prince of course, but Denise as well. Denise makes me laugh, because when I picture Prince as a normal man, I see him so clearly with her in all of her womanly and godly glory. She looked great for her age, and he too. She aged appropriately and I love to see that. All of this has somewhat made me depressed, but happy simultaneously. I think they fulfilled their life purposes. Something came in my mind whilst listening to an Amy Winehouse tune (that I dedicated to Prince in my long car drive this morning), and that was: Life is a 360, too many don't get to make a 180. But.. Both Denise and Prince did. I don't think we looked too deep, I think we looked just wonderfully and kindly. It is safe to say he loved Vanity, and dare I say who he loved more, was Denise. Deep down, I think he was reflecting on what it would have been like if he had a family with her, and somehow it seems that's what hurt him so bad. "We need a new story now," the possibilities weren't always endless but there was hope that in another world, he could make it happen. It is a fantasy that never left him, and for that I am saddened. I also wonder if she was ever pregnant with child while with him, there is something that really bonded them together in a metaphysical way.

That is what haunts and perplexes for me - all these years and it never left him ever . . .

I think it was more than a fantasy. It's what defined him and his creative output. And of course, they both gave one another just enough to keep them both thoroughly caught in the game. The more I look at it, the more dysfunctional it seems and I wouldn't wish it for myself but it was something I think they thrived off.

SunnyGirl8 said:

Vashtix said:

That is what haunts and perplexes for me - all these years and it never left him ever . . .

I think it was more than a fantasy. It's what defined him and his creative output. And of course, they both gave one another just enough to keep them both thoroughly caught in the game. The more I look at it, the more dysfunctional it seems and I wouldn't wish it for myself but it was something I think they thrived off.

Very dysfunctional but it resulted in great music and I totally agree they both kept it going and it appears that them dying so close together as they did it was what kept their hearts beating on the earth

scriptgirl said:

Vashtix said:

scriptgirl said:

One thing we haven't talked about is WHO told Prince that Vanity died and if no one explicitly told him, how did he find out?

I also wonder what is reaction to the news was? So much other stuff has come out, but not that.

That may be something that never comes out, particularly as they have both died. I doubt you'll ever really know what went on and whether he spoke to her or not, who told him when she passed etc - it's just too personal. Same for what his initial reaction was to the news, again I doubt that will ever be made public.

You'll probably have to make do with his reaction to the news as the performance he gave in Melbourne which was highly emotional. For someone who is very image conscious and likes to control things, that is very telling.

scriptgirl said:

One thing we haven't talked about is WHO told Prince that Vanity died and if no one explicitly told him, how did he find out?

I also wonder what is reaction to the news was? So much other stuff has come out, but not that.

I don't know who told him but he didn't have his entourage around. His personal photographer was there in Melbourne and she gave this interview.

.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/arts/music/from-teen-dreams-to-privileged-post-behind-princes-purple-curtain/news-story/5ffca1d4787918b237d02a57cb9b20bf?nk=a37ca71a0ed86a7a73bac69b7dcc77be-1464415955

.

“It was really unusual,” she said. “He wasn’t in the room for a while and then he suddenly came back in and he said the most beautiful and sincere thank-you.”

Walpole had spent three years staring into his face through a lens. She knew that face like the back of her hand and there was something across his face that night that she hadn’t seen before, something tender and vulnerable, something big and universal that crossed from mere polite gratit­ude into the realms of acceptance, and fate, and last chances.

“It was the way he said thanks to me that night,” she said.

“The way he looked. I felt at the time it was an unusual thing for him to do. It feels so poignant now when I look back. I don’t know, it probably sounds weird. He was so softly spoken and so quiet, the way he stood there. It was always sad leaving Prince.”

Sunny I LOVE "Empty Room"!! thanks so much for turning me on to that!! really interesting that he kept playing it. Mayte seems wrong in that video. At the end he dies (Heart attack?) the final frames show him opening the door back up (door of death?) and grabbing a stick with a symbol on it. I can't make out the symbol, I thought at first it was the Prince symbol but it isn't. It looks almost Egyptian. Any one know what it is?

beachy said:

Sunny I LOVE "Empty Room"!! thanks so much for turning me on to that!! really interesting that he kept playing it. Mayte seems wrong in that video. At the end he dies (Heart attack?) the final frames show him opening the door back up (door of death?) and grabbing a stick with a symbol on it. I can't make out the symbol, I thought at first it was the Prince symbol but it isn't. It looks almost Egyptian. Any one know what it is?

Hiya Beachy it's a great track isn't it!

These are the lyrics:

Empty room, empty room how am I gonna fill U?

How am I gonna fill this empty room?
Love is strong, however long we should've been 4ever
How am I ever gonna fill this empty room?
Found a strand of your hair by the bathroom window
How am I ever gonna get U off my mind?
In my bed, in my head every word U've spoken
Now how am I gonna fill this empty room?
Lonely hearts, worlds apart why should they be broken?
When we could be somewhere makin' love

Love is strong, however long, we should've been 4ever
Baby, why did U leave me all alone?
Why'd U do it?
Barren walls, tears fall what's the use in cryin'?
I gotta find a way, find a way 2 fill this empty room

Same theme as WDC, she's left him but much darker. Then he collapses at the end, maybe dies? I couldn't work out the stick either. Is he dead? Is he showing he's closing the door on the empty room and taking one stick and leaving 2 behind? No idea? Also are there 2 of him and her?

But it's interesting there's the bath but it's black and you don't see his face, there's a mirror, he looks sad through all of it. Mayte seems completely irrelevant in the storyline unless she's posing as the character he's talking about who's left him - either way she's kind of a distraction because it's his performance that's telling the story.

[Edited 5/28/16 0:57am]

[Edited 5/28/16 1:09am]

[Edited 5/28/16 1:12am]

[Edited 5/28/16 1:31am]

[Edited 5/28/16 4:36am]

beachy said:

scriptgirl said:

One thing we haven't talked about is WHO told Prince that Vanity died and if no one explicitly told him, how did he find out?

I also wonder what is reaction to the news was? So much other stuff has come out, but not that.

I don't know who told him but he didn't have his entourage around. His personal photographer was there in Melbourne and she gave this interview.

.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/arts/music/from-teen-dreams-to-privileged-post-behind-princes-purple-curtain/news-story/5ffca1d4787918b237d02a57cb9b20bf?nk=a37ca71a0ed86a7a73bac69b7dcc77be-1464415955

.

“It was really unusual,” she said. “He wasn’t in the room for a while and then he suddenly came back in and he said the most beautiful and sincere thank-you.”

Walpole had spent three years staring into his face through a lens. She knew that face like the back of her hand and there was something across his face that night that she hadn’t seen before, something tender and vulnerable, something big and universal that crossed from mere polite gratit­ude into the realms of acceptance, and fate, and last chances.

“It was the way he said thanks to me that night,” she said.

“The way he looked. I felt at the time it was an unusual thing for him to do. It feels so poignant now when I look back. I don’t know, it probably sounds weird. He was so softly spoken and so quiet, the way he stood there. It was always sad leaving Prince.”

Thanks Beachy - so that was his last professional photo. Wow!

beachy said:

Sunny I LOVE "Empty Room"!! thanks so much for turning me on to that!! really interesting that he kept playing it. Mayte seems wrong in that video. At the end he dies (Heart attack?) the final frames show him opening the door back up (door of death?) and grabbing a stick with a symbol on it. I can't make out the symbol, I thought at first it was the Prince symbol but it isn't. It looks almost Egyptian. Any one know what it is?

Holy Cow Beachy - you've got to hear this song live!! Geez that's how you blow off steam over someone!!!

Montreux Jazz Fest 2009

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Onx3sbNRbIY

North Sea Jazz 2011

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXR9LzQhq0

SPYZFAN1 said:

endiadj said:

i believe there still would've been a purple rain. it was based loosely on his life not hers. the love story aspect would've been different most likely.

Well, i think it was loosley based on both of them....a little of each.

.

HIS parents in the movie: 1 black & 1 white = Vanitys story, not his, she was biracial, he wasn't..she had a white (german) mother and a father who was black.

.

When they first layed eyes on each other: they see each other across the room, staring at each other intensley..he following her around apparently. That was ALL true, it was THEIR first realization of the other and he was hooked he pursued her for years, even gave her an ultimatum to ''come with me, if you love me'' she told Donnie Simpson that in an interview..

.

The girl group thing: Vanity/Apples 6 that again was their story..actually it was Rick James (Morris Day) story who Vanity was dating/working with at the time..she was prompted to be n The Mary Jane Girls..Prince took the girl, the idea, etc. that was her story more than his in a way!!!!

.

She leaves him to join Morris's girl group and breaks his heart: she did leave Prince for Motown and Berry Gordy's million dollar movie/singing deal.

.

The Beautiful Ones: he wrote this ABOUT HER because Vanity left him (Rolling Stone OR Jet Magazine article) and he was heartbroken, arguably the BEST scene in the movie when he sings to her, desperate and heartbroken bcuz she chose something/someone else!!!!!

.

There are so many other things in this movie, i mean how could there have been a Purple Rain if he neve met her? Its really her story as much as his if not more.

.

[Edited 5/28/16 4:31am]

BillieBalloon said:

SPYZFAN1 said:

"Prince defined his 'type' based off of her"....I can see that. I always thought Mani had some strong resemblances of a younger Denise/Vanity.

Susan moonsie was before vanity..look at her. Vanity is one of my fave prince girls..stunning and charming ..all of that. Just beautiful. However I think he already had a type. [img:$uid]http://solarey.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Susan-Moonsie-00.jpg[/img:$uid]

She was his high school ''home girl'' first girlfriend kinda thing, they knew each other for ages and dated on and off until Vanity came on the scene.

.

I think Vanity and Susan DO NOT LOOK A LIKE i think Vanity was more sophisticated, a perfect beauty with a perfect face....a true sex symbol, and just very hot...Susan was a sweet, girl next door type and Prince out grew her..also, i think Prince's type really evolved into the more sleek, sexy biracial or latina looking chick, look at the two women he married...one could have been Denise's body double!!!!!

.

Denise said in her article with Jet Magazine after she got married that everyone thought she was Puerto Rican, no one took her as a black woman...i think Prince liked the biracial look....he himself had that look even though he wasn't.

.

[Edited 5/28/16 4:40am]

[Edited 5/28/16 4:41am]

wizardtelly said:

Does anyone know where I can find the video of the playboy article she did in 88? http://prince.org/msg/5/291768 Apparently it hurt her so much to speak of him that she was crying, and describing how in love she was.

I would love to se that! I tried finding it, and i am having no luck. Its supposed to be very good..really telling of her feelings and devotion to him, even all those years later, she gets emotional.

GeniusLuv said:

wizardtelly said:

Does anyone know where I can find the video of the playboy article she did in 88? http://prince.org/msg/5/291768 Apparently it hurt her so much to speak of him that she was crying, and describing how in love she was.

I would love to se that! I tried finding it, and i am having no luck. Its supposed to be very good..really telling of her feelings and devotion to him, even all those years later, she gets emotional.

hi genius, back in the thread you mentioned an article that said Vanity wanted to do both PR and the Scorsese movie but Prince made her choose. Do you remember where that came from? thanks alot!

GeniusLuv said:

beachy said:

GeniusLuv said:

I would love to se that! I tried finding it, and i am having no luck. Its supposed to be very good..really telling of her feelings and devotion to him, even all those years later, she gets emotional.

hi genius, back in the thread you mentioned an article that said Vanity wanted to do both PR and the Scorsese movie but Prince made her choose. Do you remember where that came from? thanks alot!

He didn't make her choose between PR and another movie..i never mentioned a scorcese movie just that Motown offered her a movie and recording deal..he made her choose between being with him (and his camp) or going to Motown and getting that deal she eventually took.

.

She said she couldn't do both, she said it to Donnie Simpson too, but was nicer about it talking to Donnie..said she couldn't be affiliated with one and do the other (or something like that) she made it seem like SHE HAD TO DO IT (the Motown deal) bcuz it was a drive she had (it was also a $hit load of money--but she didn't say that So it was, be with him OR go to Motown, she chose the mega deal, and Prince wasn't having any of that so she had to walk away from everything. She wasn't getting paid, as she said several times to do PR so she walked, and went with Motown!