People don't get ahead and stay ahead in ANY business by giving away assets.

Neither of those names are assets to him unless he plans to get new groups to tour under either name. I also applaud them both for getting out there but what it hurts for both bands is getting promoters or radio (old school) to see the name and go- oh- we sohould have them on our show/festival tour becasue I remember them from back in the day. The Time in particular deserve this because they were a hard working touring band under that name.
From my perspective, and having worked the business (tho many many years ago now) it served no business purpose at all for Prince. If it was business he'd let them tour under their name and have WB rerelease their cds remasterd, let them tour, support the tours and take a peice of any merchandising with the name on it. THEN the names would be an asset.
Since he has clearly not benefitted financially from his strategy it leaves only a couple of other motives.

^ Zannaloaf - with your music background would you please offer your take on this:

Jimmy Jamm recently stated that TO7 are able to tour as 'The Time' but any recordings need to under a different moniker (or words to that effect)

What, if anything, does this say about Prince and his 'ownership' of 'The Time' brand?

Zannaloaf said:

funksterr said:

wonder505 said:

I think if it was that serious FDeluxe would not still be open to the possibility of performing at Prince's concert.

I respect Jimmy's perspective too, but how do they know anything is a hurdle unless they tried? have they been calling and trying to book venues and are they being turned down left and right???

[Edited 4/30/12 18:44pm]

It can be serious without hate. If you think aout it, FDeluxe and O7 always show love to Prince regardless of what he does. Prince does things on a whim. I think they know the best way to respond to him is to keep the lines of communication open regardless of how hurtful his actions are to their own aspirations.

But if that is the case then why bother keep any line of communication open if what you say is true? They are now free to do what they want? what is stopping them?

BobGeorge909 said:

funksterr said:

I like your analogy, however in this situation, it's just not that simple. Prince holds a fair amount of contracual power over his "old friends". They are not on a level playing field. I don't think it's cool for him to put them down, on top of everything else. As for the rest of your post... I challege you to prove it. A lot of people have come on this thread and against all public facts and logic, speculated that everything was just fine. Prove it. Prove Prince "had a handle" on Mutiny "and recorded a rehearsal". How do you know this? I think you just made it up.

[Edited 5/1/12 3:05am]

The Family is a creation PRINCE made. The Time is a creation PRINCE made. People don't get ahead and stay ahead in ANY business by giving away assets. Prove that he had a handle on it and that its a recording? WTF? What was it u listened to? A recording! Was it a decent performance of the song? You implication seems to be he recorded this just for them. He records ALL his rehearsals.....he's done this since before purple rain! Prove my statements? Prove yours! Prince has NO control over these people lives. He has control over the names of 2 band names that he created. If these people existence relies on them having use of these name, it speaks more to their supposed shortcomings than Prince's. I argue they aren't shortcomings though. They were all able to do something OUTSIDE of what prince made, and they did. They renamed their groups and made recordings that sold. Barry Gordy didn't give away the name "the Jackson 5", just as Sean combs hasn't given awaybthe name "danity kane" to any one. Not because they're assholes, but because giving shit away usually doesn't pay off. People who have a history of givin' shit away end up like M.C. Hammer. I get a feeling that if the members of these groups read what you were saying, they'd tell uvto quit whining for them. They're all grown-ups.

Okay, back to what you said. You claimed you knew the reason WHY Prince released the track. I don't believe that you actually do know that for certain. I believed you were speculating, but I challenged you to prove it. Nothing in your follow up post backs up your initial claim, so I think it's fair to say you have failed that you actually know the reason why Prince released his "present".

Now... Even though you may even be speculating, you are doing so based on some fairly resonable assumptions. However you are still speculating. I challenged you to prove it only as a way to expose you as doing the VERY SAME thing you attacked me over, lol. I doubt you will 'fess up and admit it, but I think my point is made, so I'm moving on. And yeah I think two or three steps ahead when I post on this btch.

wonder505 said:

funksterr said:

It can be serious without hate. If you think aout it, FDeluxe and O7 always show love to Prince regardless of what he does. Prince does things on a whim. I think they know the best way to respond to him is to keep the lines of communication open regardless of how hurtful his actions are to their own aspirations.

But if that is the case then why bother keep any line of communication open if what you say is true? They are now free to do what they want? what is stopping them?

I believe the answer is simply"Hope". They love Prince for whatever reason, and they don't want a problem with him. Prince on the other hand basicaly loves no one, except maybe Larry Graham and seems to somehow always feel like he is the victim of something. If you look at FDeluxe and O7, they have acted with a lot of class and respect toward Prince. Prince is an azz for attacking them in his song, imo.

funksterr said:

Zannaloaf said:

People don't get ahead and stay ahead in ANY business by giving away assets.

Neither of those names are assets to him unless he plans to get new groups to tour under either name. I also applaud them both for getting out there but what it hurts for both bands is getting promoters or radio (old school) to see the name and go- oh- we sohould have them on our show/festival tour becasue I remember them from back in the day. The Time in particular deserve this because they were a hard working touring band under that name.
From my perspective, and having worked the business (tho many many years ago now) it served no business purpose at all for Prince. If it was business he'd let them tour under their name and have WB rerelease their cds remasterd, let them tour, support the tours and take a peice of any merchandising with the name on it. THEN the names would be an asset.
Since he has clearly not benefitted financially from his strategy it leaves only a couple of other motives.

Publicity and keeping the fans discussing him so he can make money to pay the Perfume makers would be the other motives.

80spfantwp said:

^ Zannaloaf - with your music background would you please offer your take on this:

Jimmy Jamm recently stated that TO7 are able to tour as 'The Time' but any recordings need to under a different moniker (or words to that effect)

What, if anything, does this say about Prince and his 'ownership' of 'The Time' brand?

I believe he really does own the trademark on "The Time" as opposed to having registered for a trademark on "The Family". He clearly owns the brand imo. As in the group made up of the original Time touring under that name are associating themselves with a name Prince owns and a band he helped originate. If they can tour under the name "The Time" then their must have been an agrement to that somewhere along the line. I see parts of groups or one surviving member of a band touring AS that band...so perhaps there is a statute relating to performing live relating to recording or having toured as that band previously. I don't know specifcs on that.
My guess is that Prince's artistic ego (and I'm not using that as a negative in this case) wants to always have association with any music recorded under the name "The Time". I find it all rather odd personally.
As far as Prince wanting to keep fans interested..I really don't think this whole name debacle serves to do anything other than make him look unkind and petty. As I said a financial gain would be reasonable since he started the whole ball rolling, but it looks more like to me like spite from someone who claims to be spiritually enlightened.

[Edited 5/2/12 5:16am]

Thanks Zannaloaf

So taking this scenario a little further - can not TO7 tour as 'The Time' i.e. promote live events under this moniker, and perhaps even release live dvds as the Time

I'm sure i'm missing something really obvious here but if, as Jimmy Jam says, they can tour as The Time, then why don't they?

Just trying to get my head around this comment JJ made and how that could work to their advantage practically going forward

funksterr said:

wonder505 said:

But if that is the case then why bother keep any line of communication open if what you say is true? They are now free to do what they want? what is stopping them?

I believe the answer is simply"Hope". They love Prince for whatever reason, and they don't want a problem with him. Prince on the other hand basicaly loves no one, except maybe Larry Graham and seems to somehow always feel like he is the victim of something. If you look at FDeluxe and O7, they have acted with a lot of class and respect toward Prince. Prince is an azz for attacking them in his song, imo.

OR it could be they just want to make money.

wonder505 said:

funksterr said:

I believe the answer is simply"Hope". They love Prince for whatever reason, and they don't want a problem with him. Prince on the other hand basicaly loves no one, except maybe Larry Graham and seems to somehow always feel like he is the victim of something. If you look at FDeluxe and O7, they have acted with a lot of class and respect toward Prince. Prince is an azz for attacking them in his song, imo.

OR it could be they just want to make money.

Or exposure for their current projects...which is more likely. Exposure is key. Plenty of talented people no one has a clue about and total shite gets on TV and radio. It's the exposure.

Let's see if I got it right...

Prince is abusive, evil and not to be trusted plus he carries a sword(he could stab you in the back at any moment).

Any former protege/associated artist that chooses to have a relationship(in any capacity) with Prince is stupid and being taken advantage of by him.

Jesse Johnson must be a druggie and insane for leaving The Original 7ven.

Only the fans know what's in the best interest of any of these long time musicians and artists. They need to listen to the fans and not follow their own minds.

HonestMan13 said:

Let's see if I got it right...

Prince is abusive, evil and not to be trusted plus he carries a sword(he could stab you in the back at any moment).

Any former protege/associated artist that chooses to have a relationship(in any capacity) with Prince is stupid and being taken advantage of by him.

Jesse Johnson must be a druggie and insane for leaving The Original 7ven.

Only the fans know what's in the best interest of any of these long time musicians and artists. They need to listen to the fans and not follow their own minds.

Yup, so this new guy Andy McKee better watch his back! Nevermind what he said about P treating him with "incredible respect and kindness" - he'll be screwed in the end, just like anyone else who's voluntarily associated with him! Listen to the obsessed Prince "fans" who know he's evil - run away! run far away!

HonestMan13 said:

Let's see if I got it right...

Prince is abusive, evil and not to be trusted plus he carries a sword(he could stab you in the back at any moment).

Any former protege/associated artist that chooses to have a relationship(in any capacity) with Prince is stupid and being taken advantage of by him.

Jesse Johnson must be a druggie and insane for leaving The Original 7ven.

Only the fans know what's in the best interest of any of these long time musicians and artists. They need to listen to the fans and not follow their own minds.

Actually the associated artists love Prince no matter what and will always reach out to him with love even though he hates them.

Prince probably treats that guy with respect because he has no personal history with him and he is not trying to get him into bed. There is a difference. If you recall Kevin smiths experience with Prince it was all cool to start with and then got....weird.

From O7's twitter: "Anyone notice how "G'Day Mate" & "Condensate" rhymes? hmmmmmmmm....." This is getting embarrassing. I hope they don't start writing open letters to Prince and siht like that.