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PrintableCJanssen said: DesireeNevermind said: Laura:
I cant'prove the stars shine 24/7 but I can say it can't I? Why not say that Prince was an adulterer when he was. Other people have said it before me so the door was opened and I stepped in. Kinda like this whole thread. Jesus did not say go spread Chrisitianity...he said spread the word of God. Jesus was a Jew and those who believe he is son of God are referred to as Christians. Now he did say he would build his Church In the book of Mathew so i will meet you half way on this. Although I would hardly call all Christians members of the same church as that church would be pretty fucked up to include child molesting priests (the Catholic scandal), drug addicted pastors ( Haggart) and reverends who endorse a so called holy war (Hagee). Most Christian religions preach a lot of things but don't always live up to them. there is such a thing as leading by example that many people overlook when it suits them. Yeah its hard to live by certain rules which is why we should always question them to begin with. If it was a rule to jump in front of a speeding train in the name of the Lord would you do it? Or would you question where that rule came from and why it exist? Is it an order from the Lord or some priest/reverend/Iman's misinterpretation of a bible verse? just using as an example, im not saying the bible preaches jumping in front of speeding trains. I wouldn't get so caught up in todays altered Bible as its missing quite a few Gospels and what remains can be subject to interpretation. for instance, where in the bible does it say that sex before marriage is a sin? Pay attention here, I said sex before marriage. Sex outside of marriage has been interpreted as adultery and therefore sinful but nowhere that I can think of does the bible condemn two people having sex before they get married which is what I was alluding to earlier and which a lot of people do. As for the spilling of the seed. What about men and wet dreams? They can't control that so how is it a sin? all your posts   Great post, Des! | |
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DesireeNevermind said: salaciousV said: I really really true love you. 
 where's that "blushing" emoticon.Here you go!  "Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack | |
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GaryMF said: laurarichardson said: ---- Gee another day with another orger who is arrogant enough to think that because he has the free time to read the Bible in the original language he is smarter than all of the theologians who have written about these topics many times. When I talk about spilling the seeds, I am aware that the story came from Genesis and I do not interpret it to be only about masturbation. I am not Catholic so I do not care one bit about what they think. I and many others interpret it to mean no masturbation, no sex without procreation being the purpose, and no sex with same sex or animals. Spilling the seeds means your wasting the life force god gave you. You are not using it to procreatate or enjoy with your spouse which should be of the opposite sex. This was made plain to me growing up and going to bible study. I have not been to bible study in over 20 years but I certainly remember this discussion Now you can interpret it any why you want to and you can read both versions of the Ten Commandments all day but it will not change the views of most Christians about the most basic creed in the bible concerning sex outside of marriage and same sex, sex with animals or wasting your wad. Talk about ARROGANCE!!!! Just becuase YOU and your fellow bible students interperted it that way 20 years.... you assume "MOST CHRISTIANS" agree with you. WOW! Talk about narrow minded!!! I only mentioned the seafood part because if you are not Jewish not eating seafood does not pertain to you as a Christian so why would a Christian follow that law.
Try spending less time chopping people down. Again, the seafood thing has to do with the fact that someone else, not you, was quoting Leviticas as the basis for saying being gay is wrong. My point was that person i picking and choosing verses from Levitius to defend their beliefs. ----- My comments have nothing to do with being arrogant. If you talk to most Christians, you are going to find a similar mindset. I by no means feel that I am all-knowing and that everyone else is wrong. I never said that. I am merely stating were some of the ideas about sex in general are coming from in the church. As long as you jump to conclusions, you will never learn the real motivations surrounding the issues pertaining to homosexuality, sex and Christianity. It is not as black and white as you seem to think. | |
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CJanssen said: DesireeNevermind said: Laura:
I cant'prove the stars shine 24/7 but I can say it can't I? Why not say that Prince was an adulterer when he was. Other people have said it before me so the door was opened and I stepped in. Kinda like this whole thread. Jesus did not say go spread Chrisitianity...he said spread the word of God. Jesus was a Jew and those who believe he is son of God are referred to as Christians. Now he did say he would build his Church In the book of Mathew so i will meet you half way on this. Although I would hardly call all Christians members of the same church as that church would be pretty fucked up to include child molesting priests (the Catholic scandal), drug addicted pastors ( Haggart) and reverends who endorse a so called holy war (Hagee). Most Christian religions preach a lot of things but don't always live up to them. there is such a thing as leading by example that many people overlook when it suits them. Yeah its hard to live by certain rules which is why we should always question them to begin with. If it was a rule to jump in front of a speeding train in the name of the Lord would you do it? Or would you question where that rule came from and why it exist? Is it an order from the Lord or some priest/reverend/Iman's misinterpretation of a bible verse? just using as an example, im not saying the bible preaches jumping in front of speeding trains. I wouldn't get so caught up in todays altered Bible as its missing quite a few Gospels and what remains can be subject to interpretation. for instance, where in the bible does it say that sex before marriage is a sin? Pay attention here, I said sex before marriage. Sex outside of marriage has been interpreted as adultery and therefore sinful but nowhere that I can think of does the bible condemn two people having sex before they get married which is what I was alluding to earlier and which a lot of people do. As for the spilling of the seed. What about men and wet dreams? They can't control that so how is it a sin? all your posts ----- Thank your for the compliment on my post. ----- Spreading the word of God and spreading Christianity are the same thing to me. Jesus was a Jew who was considered by Jews to be heretic because he was proclaiming himself to be the son of the God. The minute Jesus made that statement was the end of his relationship with Jews and the beginning of Christianity. Your still confusing denominations with religion. Like I said Christians have added ceremonies and rituals over the use to appease people from different cultures there are literally thousands of denominations all worshiping God in a different way. I believe people should follow God and not worry so much about what their denominations is telling them to do. I found something online that explains that sex without marriage issue and Christianity. It even has the Bible verses were the info is coming from. It is very interesting and goes along with the things I was taught growing up and going to church. I can also tell you that I interpret “spilling the seeds” to be dudes whacking off for recreational purposes not having a wet dream which can’t be control. What I found on line. http://www.gotquestions.o...riage.html There is no Hebrew or Greek word used in the Bible that is precisely defined to refer to sex before marriage. The Bible undeniably condemns adultery and sexual immorality, but the question arises, is sex before marriage considered sexually immoral? According to 1 Corinthians 7:2, “yes” is the clear answer, “But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.” In this verse, Paul states that marriage is the “cure” for sexual immorality. First Corinthians 7:2 is essentially saying because people cannot control themselves and so many people are having immoral sex outside of marriage, people should get married, so they can fulfill their passions in a moral way. So, since 1 Corinthians 7:2 clearly includes sex before marriage in the definition of sexual immorality, all of the Bible verses that condemn sexual immorality as being sinful also condemn sex before marriage as sinful. Sex before marriage is included in the biblical definition of sexual immorality. There are numerous Scriptures that declare sex before marriage to be a sin (Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 5:1, 6:13,18, 10:8; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7). The Bible promotes complete abstinence before marriage. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations of which God approves (Hebrews 13:4). Far too often we focus on the “recreation” aspect of sex without recognizing that there is another aspect – “procreation.” Sex within marriage is pleasurable, and God designed it that way. God wants men and women to enjoy sexual activity within the confines of marriage. Song of Solomon and several other Bible passages (such as Proverbs 5:19) clearly describe the pleasure aspect of sex. However, the couple must understand that God’s intent for sex includes producing children. Thus, for a couple to engage in sex before marriage is doubly wrong—they are enjoying pleasures not intended for them, and they are taking a chance of creating a human life outside of the family structure God intended for every child. While practicality does not determine right from wrong, if the Bible's message on sex before marriage was obeyed there would be far fewer sexually transmitted diseases, far fewer abortions, far fewer un-wed mothers / unwanted pregnancies, and far fewer children growing up without both parents in their lives. Abstinence is God’s only policy when it comes to sex before marriage. Abstinence saves lives, protects babies, gives sexual relations the proper value, and most importantly, honors God. Recommended Resource: Why True Love Waits by Josh McDowell. Men - Every Young Man's Battle : Strategies for Victory in the Real World of Sexual Temptation by Stephen Arterburn. Women - Every Young Woman's Battle: Guarding Your Mind, Heart, and Body in a Sex-Saturated World by Shannon Ethridge. [Edited 5/2/09 17:42pm] | |
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laurarichardson said: CJanssen said: all your posts ----- Thank your for the compliment on my post. ----- Spreading the word of God and spreading Christianity are the same thing to me. Jesus was a Jew who was considered by Jews to be heretic because he was proclaiming himself to be the son of the God. The minute Jesus made that statement was the end of his relationship with Jews and the beginning of Christianity. Your still confusing denominations with religion. Like I said Christians have added ceremonies and rituals over the use to appease people from different cultures there are literally thousands of denominations all worshiping God in a different way. I believe people should follow God and not worry so much about what their denominations is telling them to do. I found something online that explains that sex without marriage issue and Christianity. It even has the Bible verses were the info is coming from. It is very interesting and goes along with the things I was taught growing up and going to church. I can also tell you that I interpret “spilling the seeds” to be dudes whacking off for recreational purposes not having a wet dream which can’t be control. What I found on line. http://www.gotquestions.o...riage.html There is no Hebrew or Greek word used in the Bible that is precisely defined to refer to sex before marriage. The Bible undeniably condemns adultery and sexual immorality, but the question arises, is sex before marriage considered sexually immoral? According to 1 Corinthians 7:2, “yes” is the clear answer, “But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.” In this verse, Paul states that marriage is the “cure” for sexual immorality. First Corinthians 7:2 is essentially saying because people cannot control themselves and so many people are having immoral sex outside of marriage, people should get married, so they can fulfill their passions in a moral way. So, since 1 Corinthians 7:2 clearly includes sex before marriage in the definition of sexual immorality, all of the Bible verses that condemn sexual immorality as being sinful also condemn sex before marriage as sinful. Sex before marriage is included in the biblical definition of sexual immorality. There are numerous Scriptures that declare sex before marriage to be a sin (Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 5:1, 6:13,18, 10:8; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7). The Bible promotes complete abstinence before marriage. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations of which God approves (Hebrews 13:4). Far too often we focus on the “recreation” aspect of sex without recognizing that there is another aspect – “procreation.” Sex within marriage is pleasurable, and God designed it that way. God wants men and women to enjoy sexual activity within the confines of marriage. Song of Solomon and several other Bible passages (such as Proverbs 5:19) clearly describe the pleasure aspect of sex. However, the couple must understand that God’s intent for sex includes producing children. Thus, for a couple to engage in sex before marriage is doubly wrong—they are enjoying pleasures not intended for them, and they are taking a chance of creating a human life outside of the family structure God intended for every child. While practicality does not determine right from wrong, if the Bible's message on sex before marriage was obeyed there would be far fewer sexually transmitted diseases, far fewer abortions, far fewer un-wed mothers / unwanted pregnancies, and far fewer children growing up without both parents in their lives. Abstinence is God’s only policy when it comes to sex before marriage. Abstinence saves lives, protects babies, gives sexual relations the proper value, and most importantly, honors God. Recommended Resource: Why True Love Waits by Josh McDowell. Men - Every Young Man's Battle : Strategies for Victory in the Real World of Sexual Temptation by Stephen Arterburn. Women - Every Young Woman's Battle: Guarding Your Mind, Heart, and Body in a Sex-Saturated World by Shannon Ethridge. [Edited 5/2/09 17:42pm] I am interested in your opinion about this; The woman i have been studying the bible with is married..However she and her husband got married in a J.W. ceremony completely knowing that they had no intention of having children. They do not have fertility problems. These people are making a choice that was unavailabe 50 years ago; to never have children without having abortions. Anyway if ultimately you are saying that God wants married couples to Procreate unless they are infertile, then what about this couple? It seems to be o.k. with the comgregation elders since one of the major reasons why they are not having children is so they can witness. | |
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prodigalfan said: DesireeNevermind said: where's that "blushing" emoticon.Here you go!  thx babe | |
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laurarichardson said: CJanssen said: all your posts ----- Thank your for the compliment on my post. ----- Spreading the word of God and spreading Christianity are the same thing to me. Jesus was a Jew who was considered by Jews to be heretic because he was proclaiming himself to be the son of the God. The minute Jesus made that statement was the end of his relationship with Jews and the beginning of Christianity. Your still confusing denominations with religion. Like I said Christians have added ceremonies and rituals over the use to appease people from different cultures there are literally thousands of denominations all worshiping God in a different way. I believe people should follow God and not worry so much about what their denominations is telling them to do. I found something online that explains that sex without marriage issue and Christianity. It even has the Bible verses were the info is coming from. It is very interesting and goes along with the things I was taught growing up and going to church. I can also tell you that I interpret “spilling the seeds” to be dudes whacking off for recreational purposes not having a wet dream which can’t be control. What I found on line. http://www.gotquestions.o...riage.html There is no Hebrew or Greek word used in the Bible that is precisely defined to refer to sex before marriage. The Bible undeniably condemns adultery and sexual immorality, but the question arises, is sex before marriage considered sexually immoral? According to 1 Corinthians 7:2, “yes” is the clear answer, “But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.” In this verse, Paul states that marriage is the “cure” for sexual immorality. First Corinthians 7:2 is essentially saying because people cannot control themselves and so many people are having immoral sex outside of marriage, people should get married, so they can fulfill their passions in a moral way. So, since 1 Corinthians 7:2 clearly includes sex before marriage in the definition of sexual immorality, all of the Bible verses that condemn sexual immorality as being sinful also condemn sex before marriage as sinful. Sex before marriage is included in the biblical definition of sexual immorality. There are numerous Scriptures that declare sex before marriage to be a sin (Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 5:1, 6:13,18, 10:8; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7). The Bible promotes complete abstinence before marriage. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations of which God approves (Hebrews 13:4). Far too often we focus on the “recreation” aspect of sex without recognizing that there is another aspect – “procreation.” Sex within marriage is pleasurable, and God designed it that way. God wants men and women to enjoy sexual activity within the confines of marriage. Song of Solomon and several other Bible passages (such as Proverbs 5:19) clearly describe the pleasure aspect of sex. However, the couple must understand that God’s intent for sex includes producing children. Thus, for a couple to engage in sex before marriage is doubly wrong—they are enjoying pleasures not intended for them, and they are taking a chance of creating a human life outside of the family structure God intended for every child. While practicality does not determine right from wrong, if the Bible's message on sex before marriage was obeyed there would be far fewer sexually transmitted diseases, far fewer abortions, far fewer un-wed mothers / unwanted pregnancies, and far fewer children growing up without both parents in their lives. Abstinence is God’s only policy when it comes to sex before marriage. Abstinence saves lives, protects babies, gives sexual relations the proper value, and most importantly, honors God. Recommended Resource: Why True Love Waits by Josh McDowell. Men - Every Young Man's Battle : Strategies for Victory in the Real World of Sexual Temptation by Stephen Arterburn. Women - Every Young Woman's Battle: Guarding Your Mind, Heart, and Body in a Sex-Saturated World by Shannon Ethridge. [Edited 5/2/09 17:42pm] I saw this same site. then I looked up each of those bible verses mentioned and none of them address two single people who love each other having sex before marriage- that was my question remember. They talk about some dude sleeping with his dad's wife, they talk about adultery, they talk about other sin such as jealousy and orgies, they talk about sodom and gommorah and just about all the verses mention sexual immorality but don't define it. This is where interpretation comes in and also where people can use bible passages to create mischief and mislead people. For instance, some religious leaders and some everyday morons have long since used Ephesians 5:22-23 as justification for men controlling women and husbands basically treating their wives like property. Colossians mentions putting to death whatever belongs to one's earthly nature and mentions lust but what about love? You don't have to marry someone to love them and vice versa. shoot part of my earthly nature is to feed my body when its hungry. Am I sinning if go get a 2 piece from KFC? Many people get married later for a multitude of reasons, such as finances, school, trying to bring extended families together, differences in religion and how they want the wedding ceremony to go. I saw a lady on TV who put off her wedding b/c she was dealing with cancer but I'm pretty sure she slept with her man prior cuz they were older and had been together for quite a few years. He was so devoted to her it made you wanna cry. What if a dude slept with his girlfriend before going off to Iraq and planned to marry her when he returned but then got killed? Im just throwing out examples or maybe exceptions where I could not condemn sex before marriage and where I don't think God would be angry over it either. I agree that its better to be married to the person ur shagging but I don't think shagging them beforehand especially these days is such a horrible thing. Its more about where your heart and head are at. Better to marry period than not at all and worry about the when and where later. I appreciate your dedication to this topic but our culture clearly shows that most folk aint gonna wait to have sex before marriage and many a marriage crumbles. Better to choose wisely and make sure all things are compatible and equal rather than marry just cuz you wanna get laid and u think your religion gonna come back to haunt you over it. | |
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laurarichardson said:[quote] GaryMF said: My comments have nothing to do with being arrogant. If you talk to most Christians, you are going to find a similar mindset. I by no means feel that I am all-knowing and that everyone else is wrong. I never said that. I am merely stating were some of the ideas about sex in general are coming from in the church. As long as you jump to conclusions, you will never learn the real motivations surrounding the issues pertaining to homosexuality, sex and Christianity. It is not as black and white as you seem to think. Your arrogance is that you assume "Most" Christians agree with your particular interpretation. The story of Onan (where "Spilling the seed" comes from) is very clear in the actual Bible. It's about pulling out during sex. Generalizing that as a basis to say masturbation and other things are wrong is AN INTEPRETATION of that, and not everyone agrees with your particular version. NOt all Christians, and certainly not all non-Christians.  |
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laurarichardson said: Spreading the word of God and spreading Christianity are the same thing to me. Jesus was a Jew who was considered by Jews to be heretic because he was proclaiming himself to be the son of the God. The minute Jesus made that statement was the end of his relationship with Jews and the beginning of Christianity. If you read the actual accounts and what Jesus said, he claims to be a prophet and the Messiah and possibly "a child of God" as all of us are. The idea that he was "THE" son of God came much, much later, after his death, by his followers. |
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Mani fucked a married man and Prince committed adultery. They both got some splaining to do.
And B4 anybody goes asking me how i know this to be true lemme just say  and keep it moving. It is what it is and ole Princey aint done yet with his philandering. | |
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meltedman said: I think what Mani is doing is great...Prince is a blatant homophobe who needs to be called out once and for all. You have Perez Hilton and now Ellen praising him...but do you think either one would be welcome at HIS dinner table? Not in a million years. Prince preaches to them how being gay is EVIL, that is why he reads the bible to them. I am happy Mani came out about this and is letting people know that he is an extremely flawed individual instead of him always looking golden in the public eye.
Manuela...Hats off to you my dear! It is about time somebody came forward! Most closet queens are homophobic. Prince is no exception. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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Desire2006 said: yet, how come when God created the first human couple, he created ADAM & EVE, not ADAM & STEVE????? If God had intended for gay relationships 2 populate the earth then he would have created 2 males or 2 females 2 start with, but he didnt, he created a MAN AND A WOMAN!!!!!
Also, in various other passages of the Bible there are quite extensive lists of certain types of people who will not b wanted in Gods new earthly Kingdom, which is soon 2 come, and homosexuals(whether male or female) are included with other such types as fornicators, idolators, thieves, rapists, murderers, drunkards, the list goes on!!!!! Hallelujah! Have mer-seh! Praise the Lord! Save 'em Lord! Save 'em from sin Jesus! Oh gloe-reh! Those evil heatherns!  Andy is a four letter word. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: Mani fucked a married man and Prince committed adultery. They both got some splaining to do.
And B4 anybody goes asking me how i know this to be true lemme just say and keep it moving. It is what it is and ole Princey aint done yet with his philandering.ditt-damn-o [Edited 5/5/09 15:43pm] ...then he turned to me and said "I dare you". | |
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DesireeNevermind said: Mani fucked a married man and Prince committed adultery. They both got some splaining to do.
And B4 anybody goes asking me how i know this to be true lemme just say and keep it moving. It is what it is and ole Princey aint done yet with his philandering.
Great point! Until people acknowledge this fact...  "Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack | |
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vainandy said: Hallelujah! Have mer-seh! Praise the Lord! Save 'em Lord! Save 'em from sin Jesus! Oh gloe-reh! Those evil heatherns!
Actually, I have heard some believe that the first humans created were created in God's image, and God is both male and female.  "Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack | |
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prodigalfan said: vainandy said: Hallelujah! Have mer-seh! Praise the Lord! Save 'em Lord! Save 'em from sin Jesus! Oh gloe-reh! Those evil heatherns!
Actually, I have heard some believe that the first humans created were created in God's image, and God is both male and female. "let us create man in our own image" translation: 1. this is a group effort and we are both male and female so let's make two of these mofos so they can get busy breeding and we don't have to make any more. 2. let's use our own image cuz the first batch came out totally fucked up 3. As for the first batch, eh let's call em apes and be done with it. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: "let us create man in our own image" translation: 1. this is a group effort and we are both male and female so let's make two of these mofos so they can get busy breeding and we don't have to make any more. 2. let's use our own image cuz the first batch came out totally fucked up 3. As for the first batch, eh let's call em apes and be done with it .  [Edited 5/8/09 16:21pm] One minute they want peace……
Then do everything to make it go away.  | |
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DesireeNevermind said: laurarichardson said: ----- Thank your for the compliment on my post. ----- Spreading the word of God and spreading Christianity are the same thing to me. Jesus was a Jew who was considered by Jews to be heretic because he was proclaiming himself to be the son of the God. The minute Jesus made that statement was the end of his relationship with Jews and the beginning of Christianity. Your still confusing denominations with religion. Like I said Christians have added ceremonies and rituals over the use to appease people from different cultures there are literally thousands of denominations all worshiping God in a different way. I believe people should follow God and not worry so much about what their denominations is telling them to do. I found something online that explains that sex without marriage issue and Christianity. It even has the Bible verses were the info is coming from. It is very interesting and goes along with the things I was taught growing up and going to church. I can also tell you that I interpret “spilling the seeds” to be dudes whacking off for recreational purposes not having a wet dream which can’t be control. What I found on line. http://www.gotquestions.o...riage.html There is no Hebrew or Greek word used in the Bible that is precisely defined to refer to sex before marriage. The Bible undeniably condemns adultery and sexual immorality, but the question arises, is sex before marriage considered sexually immoral? According to 1 Corinthians 7:2, “yes” is the clear answer, “But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.” In this verse, Paul states that marriage is the “cure” for sexual immorality. First Corinthians 7:2 is essentially saying because people cannot control themselves and so many people are having immoral sex outside of marriage, people should get married, so they can fulfill their passions in a moral way. So, since 1 Corinthians 7:2 clearly includes sex before marriage in the definition of sexual immorality, all of the Bible verses that condemn sexual immorality as being sinful also condemn sex before marriage as sinful. Sex before marriage is included in the biblical definition of sexual immorality. There are numerous Scriptures that declare sex before marriage to be a sin (Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 5:1, 6:13,18, 10:8; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7). The Bible promotes complete abstinence before marriage. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations of which God approves (Hebrews 13:4). Far too often we focus on the “recreation” aspect of sex without recognizing that there is another aspect – “procreation.” Sex within marriage is pleasurable, and God designed it that way. God wants men and women to enjoy sexual activity within the confines of marriage. Song of Solomon and several other Bible passages (such as Proverbs 5:19) clearly describe the pleasure aspect of sex. However, the couple must understand that God’s intent for sex includes producing children. Thus, for a couple to engage in sex before marriage is doubly wrong—they are enjoying pleasures not intended for them, and they are taking a chance of creating a human life outside of the family structure God intended for every child. While practicality does not determine right from wrong, if the Bible's message on sex before marriage was obeyed there would be far fewer sexually transmitted diseases, far fewer abortions, far fewer un-wed mothers / unwanted pregnancies, and far fewer children growing up without both parents in their lives. Abstinence is God’s only policy when it comes to sex before marriage. Abstinence saves lives, protects babies, gives sexual relations the proper value, and most importantly, honors God. Recommended Resource: Why True Love Waits by Josh McDowell. Men - Every Young Man's Battle : Strategies for Victory in the Real World of Sexual Temptation by Stephen Arterburn. Women - Every Young Woman's Battle: Guarding Your Mind, Heart, and Body in a Sex-Saturated World by Shannon Ethridge. [Edited 5/2/09 17:42pm] I saw this same site. then I looked up each of those bible verses mentioned and none of them address two single people who love each other having sex before marriage- that was my question remember. They talk about some dude sleeping with his dad's wife, they talk about adultery, they talk about other sin such as jealousy and orgies, they talk about sodom and gommorah and just about all the verses mention sexual immorality but don't define it. This is where interpretation comes in and also where people can use bible passages to create mischief and mislead people. For instance, some religious leaders and some everyday morons have long since used Ephesians 5:22-23 as justification for men controlling women and husbands basically treating their wives like property. Colossians mentions putting to death whatever belongs to one's earthly nature and mentions lust but what about love? You don't have to marry someone to love them and vice versa. shoot part of my earthly nature is to feed my body when its hungry. Am I sinning if go get a 2 piece from KFC? Many people get married later for a multitude of reasons, such as finances, school, trying to bring extended families together, differences in religion and how they want the wedding ceremony to go. I saw a lady on TV who put off her wedding b/c she was dealing with cancer but I'm pretty sure she slept with her man prior cuz they were older and had been together for quite a few years. He was so devoted to her it made you wanna cry. What if a dude slept with his girlfriend before going off to Iraq and planned to marry her when he returned but then got killed? Im just throwing out examples or maybe exceptions where I could not condemn sex before marriage and where I don't think God would be angry over it either. I agree that its better to be married to the person ur shagging but I don't think shagging them beforehand especially these days is such a horrible thing. Its more about where your heart and head are at. Better to marry period than not at all and worry about the when and where later. I appreciate your dedication to this topic but our culture clearly shows that most folk aint gonna wait to have sex before marriage and many a marriage crumbles. Better to choose wisely and make sure all things are compatible and equal rather than marry just cuz you wanna get laid and u think your religion gonna come back to haunt you over it. ----- I am going to org note you so we don't take over this thread. | |
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GaryMF said:[quote] laurarichardson said: GaryMF said: My comments have nothing to do with being arrogant. If you talk to most Christians, you are going to find a similar mindset. I by no means feel that I am all-knowing and that everyone else is wrong. I never said that. I am merely stating were some of the ideas about sex in general are coming from in the church. As long as you jump to conclusions, you will never learn the real motivations surrounding the issues pertaining to homosexuality, sex and Christianity. It is not as black and white as you seem to think. Your arrogance is that you assume "Most" Christians agree with your particular interpretation. The story of Onan (where "Spilling the seed" comes from) is very clear in the actual Bible. It's about pulling out during sex. Generalizing that as a basis to say masturbation and other things are wrong is AN INTEPRETATION of that, and not everyone agrees with your particular version. NOt all Christians, and certainly not all non-Christians. ----- Your fucking hopeless. I am telling you what a vast amount of Christians believe. I did not say all since I don't know all and you don't either. | |
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GaryMF said: laurarichardson said: Spreading the word of God and spreading Christianity are the same thing to me. Jesus was a Jew who was considered by Jews to be heretic because he was proclaiming himself to be the son of the God. The minute Jesus made that statement was the end of his relationship with Jews and the beginning of Christianity. If you read the actual accounts and what Jesus said, he claims to be a prophet and the Messiah and possibly "a child of God" as all of us are. The idea that he was "THE" son of God came much, much later, after his death, by his followers. ----- Yes, John 3.16 came much later  | |
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don't forget shellfish. Shellfish is an abomination before the Lord. So lesseeee....no gay sex, and no lobster. Damn.... |
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laurarichardson said: GaryMF said: Your arrogance is that you assume "Most" Christians agree with your particular interpretation. The story of Onan (where "Spilling the seed" comes from) is very clear in the actual Bible. It's about pulling out during sex. Generalizing that as a basis to say masturbation and other things are wrong is AN INTEPRETATION of that, and not everyone agrees with your particular version. NOt all Christians, and certainly not all non-Christians. ----- Your fucking hopeless. I am telling you what a vast amount of Christians believe. I did not say all since I don't know all and you don't either. It's spelled "you're" not "your", and there you go again, assuming YOUR PERSONAL beliefs are what a "vast amount of Christians" believe. You are the definition of ARROGANCE. Not to mention lack of logic and poor understanding of the religion and textual sources you think you know. Good luck. |
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laurarichardson said: GaryMF said: If you read the actual accounts and what Jesus said, he claims to be a prophet and the Messiah and possibly "a child of God" as all of us are. The idea that he was "THE" son of God came much, much later, after his death, by his followers. ----- Yes, John 3.16 came much later Most Biblical scholars date Gospel of John to be about several decades after the death of Jesus. about 90 to 100 CE. http://en.wikipedia.org/w...el_of_John BTW it was written in Greek in case you were intersted [Edited 5/11/09 22:46pm] |
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GaryMF said: laurarichardson said: ----- Yes, John 3.16 came much later Most Biblical scholars date Gospel of John to be about several decades after the death of Jesus. about 90 to 100 CE. http://en.wikipedia.org/w...el_of_John BTW it was written in Greek in case you were intersted [Edited 5/11/09 22:46pm] ----- I am not really interested because even if he was written after Christ's death the passage is telling Christians what they need to do become saved. This is a core belief of Christianity and came from Jesus himself. Jesus was not nailed to a cross just because some did not like his looks. Your like most non-believers you have your mind made up and noting anyone has to say will change your mind. You are in control of every aspect of your life. It is free world and your within in rights to believe as you wish. Go in peace and if you have time check out a few books that prove that some things that are spoken about from the Bible actually did occur.
http://www.amazon.com/Sto...252&sr=1-4 | |
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laurarichardson said: GaryMF said: Most Biblical scholars date Gospel of John to be about several decades after the death of Jesus. about 90 to 100 CE. http://en.wikipedia.org/w...el_of_John BTW it was written in Greek in case you were intersted [Edited 5/11/09 22:46pm] ----- I am not really interested because even if he was written after Christ's death the passage is telling Christians what they need to do become saved. This is a core belief of Christianity and came from Jesus himself. Jesus was not nailed to a cross just because some did not like his looks. Your like most non-believers you have your mind made up and noting anyone has to say will change your mind. You are in control of every aspect of your life. It is free world and your within in rights to believe as you wish. Go in peace and if you have time check out a few books that prove that some things that are spoken about from the Bible actually did occur.
http://www.amazon.com/Sto...252&sr=1-4 Very little in the bible comes from Jesus himself, the gospels are written YEARS after his death. Jesus died in the year 30 CE, the Gospel of Mark was written between 75 and 80 CE, the Gospel of Matthew between 80 and 85 CE, the Gospel of Luke between 85 and 90, and the Gospel of John in the first decade of the Second Century. So you must not be interested in the Gospels as you state above that you are interested in very little after Jesus' death. Do get at least your timelines straight if you're going to say something so wrong from a straight up historical perspective. And that is all I am talking about here. Not the right or wrong of anyones beliefs or non-beliefs. |
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Zannaloaf said: laurarichardson said: ----- I am not really interested because even if he was written after Christ's death the passage is telling Christians what they need to do become saved. This is a core belief of Christianity and came from Jesus himself. Jesus was not nailed to a cross just because some did not like his looks. Your like most non-believers you have your mind made up and noting anyone has to say will change your mind. You are in control of every aspect of your life. It is free world and your within in rights to believe as you wish. Go in peace and if you have time check out a few books that prove that some things that are spoken about from the Bible actually did occur.
http://www.amazon.com/Sto...252&sr=1-4 Very little in the bible comes from Jesus himself, the gospels are written YEARS after his death. Jesus died in the year 30 CE, the Gospel of Mark was written between 75 and 80 CE, the Gospel of Matthew between 80 and 85 CE, the Gospel of Luke between 85 and 90, and the Gospel of John in the first decade of the Second Century. So you must not be interested in the Gospels as you state above that you are interested in very little after Jesus' death. Do get at least your timelines straight if you're going to say something so wrong from a straight up historical perspective. And that is all I am talking about here. Not the right or wrong of anyones beliefs or non-beliefs. Word!. LaurarRichardson you contractict yourself in your own post. Read the bold sentences you wrote above. You admit they were written afterwards and then say they came from Jesus himself. Look, I'm not disputing your right to believe that or to belive that is the core of CHristian belief. But saying Jesus himself stated these things is just blatantly incorrect according to the very Bible you claim to believe in. You really should try opening up and reading your Bibles more closely, even if they are in an English translation, because clearly you do not have your facts straight. And who the F*CK are you to call me a non believer???? YOu have no idea what I do or do not believe in. I am just stating FACTS such as what IS and IS NOT written in the texts. Most of what you are spouting is INTERPRETATION of these texts without even bothering to find out what is actually written. |
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Im still tryna decide whose ass I wanna beat more...Prince's or Mani's | |
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DesireeNevermind said: Im still tryna decide whose ass I wanna beat more...Prince's or Mani's I say none of the above...they both got what was coming 2 them.....it's sooooo the past it's dead, been buried , trying to come back to life but I say let it die and stay dead. U know what I mean? Proverbs 23:9 | |
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Well, this sure was a hilarious read. | |
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