I know the answer will be speculation...

but why did Vanity break camp during PR?
I read an mag article at the time that Vanity and Prince had some difference of opinion about money. I was always under the impresssion that even though Vanity would have a major role in the movie that Prince thought since she was his woman that she would do the film for next to nothing. And she didn't agree and stood up to him and they had a falling out... and then she decided to strike out on her own.

Was this the rumor or something else.

prodigalfan said:

I heard that rumor too.Vanity wanted more money that they were offering her.In retrospect,Prince should have given her what she wanted.She would have been fantastic in the movie,and can you imagine what a second Vanity 6 album would have sounded like?! Prince should have done everything in his power to keep her on board.

Vanity also complained about the many women that Prince was seeing.During his romance with Vanity,he was also messing around with Susan Moonsie,Jill Jones and Susannah Melvoin."I needed one person to love me.He needed more",Vanity said.

SoulAlive said:

It was some weird shit going on during this period. I think folks started becoming jealous of what P was being able to do. The very folks that u would think that would be there when shit started geeting serious are sometimes the very ones that start trippin'. I think that happened to Dez and I think it happened to Vanity. Vanity had known about this project for years. U KNOW P talked to her about it all the time. But she might have never thought it would come to pass. When she did see it becoming a reality, I think she became somewhat envious cuz she knew a whole different world would open up to P. And he would have access to it. And of course, that included more women. If u think she had a problem with the 2 Susans and whoever else, then that was going to be nothing in comparison. Vanity wanted the limelight and she knew that if she did the movie, she would get it. But I don't think she could stand seeing P actually achieve the very dream that he talked about. Music is one thing but music AND Hollywood? There were some people in his camp that might have had a problem with it. Just on a personal level. To a degree, this happened to Big Chick. I think they thought P had become to big for his brithches. Which was probably true. But he was the one who was making it happen, so.....

SoulAlive said:

It was some weird shit going on during this period. I think folks started becoming jealous of what P was being able to do. The very folks that u would think that would be there when shit started geeting serious are sometimes the very ones that start trippin'. I think that happened to Dez and I think it happened to Vanity. Vanity had known about this project for years. U KNOW P talked to her about it all the time. But she might have never thought it would come to pass. When she did see it becoming a reality, I think she became somewhat envious cuz she knew a whole different world would open up to P. And he would have access to it. And of course, that included more women. If u think she had a problem with the 2 Susans and whoever else, then that was going to be nothing in comparison. Vanity wanted the limelight and she knew that if she did the movie, she would get it. But I don't think she could stand seeing P actually achieve the very dream that he talked about. Music is one thing but music AND Hollywood? There were some people in his camp that might have had a problem with it. Just on a personal level. To a degree, this happened to Big Chick. I think they thought P had become to big for his brithches. Which was probably true. But he was the one who was making it happen, so.....

Technically, she didn't leave DURING filming, she dropped out before hand. Apollonia was brought in before filming began.

I know that doesn't answer your question, but just wanted to make sure the question was accurate.

madhouseman said:

Exactly. How the hell are u, house?

blackguitaristz said:

Doing great. I catch up on your posts occasionally. Always nice to see familiar blood out here! Hows life?

Technically, she didn't leave DURING filming, she dropped out before hand. Apollonia was brought in before filming began.

I know that doesn't answer your question, but just wanted to make sure the question was accurate.

madhouseman said:

Cool. Finishing up on the album.

madhouseman said:

Oh, I thought there were some scenes that Vanity had already filmed... like the video for WDC. And so it had to be reshot with Apples so they just used footage from the film
my bad. thanks for correcting me.

SoulAlive said:

It was some weird shit going on during this period. I think folks started becoming jealous of what P was being able to do. The very folks that u would think that would be there when shit started geeting serious are sometimes the very ones that start trippin'. I think that happened to Dez and I think it happened to Vanity. Vanity had known about this project for years. U KNOW P talked to her about it all the time. But she might have never thought it would come to pass. When she did see it becoming a reality, I think she became somewhat envious cuz she knew a whole different world would open up to P. And he would have access to it. And of course, that included more women. If u think she had a problem with the 2 Susans and whoever else, then that was going to be nothing in comparison. Vanity wanted the limelight and she knew that if she did the movie, she would get it. But I don't think she could stand seeing P actually achieve the very dream that he talked about. Music is one thing but music AND Hollywood? There were some people in his camp that might have had a problem with it. Just on a personal level. To a degree, this happened to Big Chick. I think they thought P had become to big for his brithches. Which was probably true. But he was the one who was making it happen, so.....

My theory is that VANITY left the project because of the amount of money she was being paid.

It is not difficult to imagine how one of Prince's proteges could develop an ego. Prince made them who they were, but they experienced the success firsthand. Vanity knew she was hot, and probably felt entitled to more cash. Prince, as an artist, probably expected others to work for little cash so that the project could be realized. Prince probably felt like Vanity was betraying him for money, even after he made her who she was.

Vanity soon after signed with Motown for a reported great deal of money. However, she ultimately let greed ruin her legacy, as Motown did not make Vanity the star she would've been had she been in Purple Rain. While I love Vanity in Berry Gordy's THE LAST DRAGON, her role in Purple Rain would have been timeless.

Vanity had the potential to become a major pop star in the 1980s, but instead she let her own greed sabotage her career. The second Vanity 6 album would've likely outsold the first, as Apollonia 6 did. There could have even been a third V6 album, and even perhaps a more successful solo career for Vanity if she had stuck around.

Ultimately, it was probably best for Prince to get away from Vanity, as his many women have helped develop his mysterious image. However, it would've been best for Purple Rain to have Vanity instead of Apollonia. Vanity probably thought the move was best for her self-interest, especially if Prince was no longer interested in being with her alone.


At the same time, you have to wonder if all of this was planned from the beginning. The back stories behind the scenes help make Prince and all of his associated artists all the more interesting.

vanity2 said:

When things start moving fast is when all the planets are lined up. U know what I'm saying? Things become accelerated. And it's like your thoughts are projecting things in reality. This is called 'foresight'. Not everyone has this. Prince is one who does. When someone who is in control has this foresight, then others around him feel powerless. It's like P tapped into something beyond just recording and performing. To make his vision work, P surrounded himself with business people who had the faith in P's vision. NOT his musicians. They CAN'T pull the strings P needed pulled. So the other musicians, (remember Bobby and Matt totally disliking When Doves Cry when they first heard it) can't even realize or follow or keep up with the one with the "foresight". So, weird shit starts going on. P was moving so fast cuz, zenith wise, it was his time. NOTHING was going to stop this movement. So any little petty bullshit that at another place in space, Prince might have took the time to consider it. But at that juncture and he had the flow of things working out in his favor, ....that shit would have to just be replaced. Period. What's the odds of a woman coming onto the set who resembled Vanity as much as Patricia did? That was part of the force that was working as well. That's why she got the part. Prince didn't need Vanity. Prince didn't need vanity BEFORE they met Patricia. Cuz P KNEW it was going to work out anyways. Nothing can stop a movement when all of the planets are lined up with foresight. Nothing.

My theory is that VANITY left the project because of the amount of money she was being paid.

It is not difficult to imagine how one of Prince's proteges could develop an ego. Prince made them who they were, but they experienced the success firsthand. Vanity knew she was hot, and probably felt entitled to more cash. Prince, as an artist, probably expected others to work for little cash so that the project could be realized. Prince probably felt like Vanity was betraying him for money, even after he made her who she was.

Vanity soon after signed with Motown for a reported great deal of money. However, she ultimately let greed ruin her legacy, as Motown did not make Vanity the star she would've been had she been in Purple Rain. While I love Vanity in Berry Gordy's THE LAST DRAGON, her role in Purple Rain would have been timeless.

Vanity had the potential to become a major pop star in the 1980s, but instead she let her own greed sabotage her career. The second Vanity 6 album would've likely outsold the first, as Apollonia 6 did. There could have even been a third V6 album, and even perhaps a more successful solo career for Vanity if she had stuck around.

The thing I have to wonder is if Apollonia got more money to star in PR than was offered to Vanity.
After all, Apples was stepping into shoes created by Vanity (with Prince's influence of course) but the fact is, it was Vanity's looks, her attitude... that was her image. Apples' attitude and feel was totally different in PR than Vanity's aura.
But I can imagine that Apples being a professional actress, looking for a break, and getting a major CO-STARRING role in a major motion picture (WB, I think?
that her agent would have negotiated a favaorable fee for his client.

And somehow I imagine that her fee was higher than what Prince was offering Vanity.


Or maybe that is another misconception.... that PRINCE was the one set the price.... maybe it was the execs at Warner Brothers.

Did Morris Day have issues about money??
I never heard he did, that is why I assume that Vanity was getting shafted because Prince was... well shafting her (pun intended). And she was not going for it. And that is why they broke up.

blackguitaristz said:

Great way of 'splaining that. I think the planets lined up for Prince for about 3 years around that time (83-early 86). He was ahead of the curve and EVERYTHING he did was watched, disected and copied. It screeched to a halt with the UTCM movie. Even that album had the smell of success on it. Kiss was doing great, and the album had several potential hits that would push a movie far, but once the scent of failure stunk up the room, it all tanked and within a few months, the album, the tour, the movie and the Revolution were gone. So was his momentum.

SOTT got some of that back, but personally, I don't know if he'll ever get that sort of roll back that he had with Purple Rain. It is so true. It would have been huge with our without Vanity.

Black, straight up as usual.

Thank u, house. P's biggest mistake was releasing ATWIAD. The format of the songs and the timing of the release of the album was horrible. There was NO way in the world that album should have been released as soon as it was. There should have been NO album at all in 85. He was as hot as he could have gotten with the album, the movie and the tour. That carried well into 85. He wasn't prepared at all for that KIND of success. All the other albums like Sheila's, The Family and Mazarati were cool. But P should have set back and looked at what was happening to him. Instead, he got caught up. Bigtime. And lost some of his focus. Some of the songs on UTCM as u said, were good. If P wanted to do a movie like that, again, he needed more time between the two projects. His timing was bad all the way around after he got off tour from PR. It was like he got giddy and shit, like a little kid. I want to do this. I want to do that. And that, and that and this...He was forcing shit as oppossed to IT coming to him. So, it kind of backfired on him. Plus, bad karma had already caught up to him during the tour on PR. U have to be careful with success. Cuz with it comes power. If u abuse it, it will turn on u. U need to know how to treat people. How to talk to people. Not to fuck over people. Cuz when you're blessed to be in a situation like that, alot is riding on what u do, how u do it. U have to be thankful, that's for certain. Being thankful will keep u grounded and clear headed. Not caught up in your own hype, doing shit to people just because u can. U have to answer for all of that.

madhouseman said:

Thank u, house. P's biggest mistake was releasing ATWIAD. The format of the songs and the timing of the release of the album was horrible. There was NO way in the world that album should have been released as soon as it was. There should have been NO album at all in 85. He was as hot as he could have gotten with the album, the movie and the tour. That carried well into 85. He wasn't prepared at all for that KIND of success. All the other albums like Sheila's, The Family and Mazarati were cool. But P should have set back and looked at what was happening to him. Instead, he got caught up. Bigtime. And lost some of his focus. Some of the songs on UTCM as u said, were good. If P wanted to do a movie like that, again, he needed more time between the two projects. His timing was bad all the way around after he got off tour from PR. It was like he got giddy and shit, like a little kid. I want to do this. I want to do that. And that, and that and this...He was forcing shit as oppossed to IT coming to him. So, it kind of backfired on him. Plus, bad karma had already caught up to him during the tour on PR. U have to be careful with success. Cuz with it comes power. If u abuse it, it will turn on u. U need to know how to treat people. How to talk to people. Not to fuck over people. Cuz when you're blessed to be in a situation like that, alot is riding on what u do, how u do it. U have to be thankful, that's for certain. Being thankful will keep u grounded and clear headed. Not caught up in your own hype, doing shit to people just because u can. U have to answer for all of that.

blackguitaristz said:

As usual,Blackguitaristz speaks the truth!! I agree with your entire post.I think that,after 'Purple Rain',Prince was like a kid in a candy store.He was placed on a pedestal and that gave him ALOT of confidence.In retrospect,though,he probably should not have released an album in 1985.He was the biggest superstar in the world at that point.He should have taken the year off and took time to plot his next move.Releasing 'ATWIAD' so soon after 'Purple Rain' was a mistake.It confused people.Imagine if he had waited awhile,then bounced back in the summer of 1986 with a huge album.It would have been the official "follow up" to 'Purple Rain' and the response would have been tremendous! There would have been a massive amount of hype and excitement.I remember,by the end of 1986,people were already writing Prince off....saying that he was finished,that his popularity was slipping,etc.I think it's largely because of his hasty career decisions,thinking he could do anything,release records as soon as he recorded them,etc.The public couldn't keep up with him.
[Edited 5/9/07 3:24am]

blackguitaristz said:

I would have been absolutely pissed if he has skipped over 1985. However, the way it turned out, I ended up being pissed anyway that year.

I agree that if he had skipped a year or two before releasing "Around The World In A Day", that his fans would have been a lot more accepting to the style change because he had given them a few years to forget about him. However, that gets boring to the fans who want more. Hell, I'm bored as hell this year because no new album has come out.

That would also be the Michael Jackson way of making money. Times were different in the 1980s than they are now. Every artist released an album a year back then. Prince did, Rick did, Cameo did, Roger and Zapp did. Everyone did except for Michael Jackson, who liked to wait years between albums so he could bleed every dime out of it that he could. If I were a huge Michael Jackson fan, I would have dropped his ass because I would have gotten sick of waiting for something new.

What Prince should have done, was to continue releasing an album a year, as usual. Where he fucked up, is he changed his style. With each album in his early years, Prince started sounding more and more modern sounding and even futuristic at times. He had taken us to what we thought 1999 (the future at the time) would sound like and then he turned around and went back to 1969. Hell, after going to how I envisioned 1999 to be, the next step is 2099, not 1969. Then he got all into the 1970s style music with the horns and things. People had already recently lived through the 1970s and were not ready to relive it.

If Prince would have continued on with his cold style, like he always had done, he would have continued being a huge success throughout the late 1980s. Then, around 1990, when musical styles changed as a whole (for the worst), all those late 1980s albums would have been like funky heaven during the shit hop infested 1990s. Hell, just imagine "Sign O The Times" being released in a year like 1996 or 1997. I would be remembering the album as a masterpiece like so many of the orgers here. Instead, it was released in 1987 and I remember it as a disappointment.
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[Edited 5/9/07 11:05am]