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PrintableSoulAlive said: DMSR1671 said: Let me put it like this: Tamar was dropped from the label & the album will not be coming out not because of any hanky panky, but because it was a business decision. We all know the man gets bored very quickly and keeps it moving, but I know 4 a fact it's not due to a personal relationship between the 2.
I heard that Universal hated the album all along...they didn't think it had any "hits" on it...but couldn't Prince still find another way to release it? What happended to his independent label NPG Records?? Prince doesnt own the masters to Milk and Honey, its not his call. | |
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Duggs said: SoulAlive said: I heard that Universal hated the album all along...they didn't think it had any "hits" on it...but couldn't Prince still find another way to release it? What happended to his independent label NPG Records?? Prince doesnt own the masters to Milk and Honey, its not his call. 
how you know this? Space for sale... | |
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theres a thread over on the "quake" that talks about it. Someone was looking at their "holla & shout" promo c.d.
they noticed that there was no NPG records logo on it. The promo disc also said that copyrights goes to SAJ Enterprises. SAJ Enterprises owns the masters to Milk&Honey, its a company based in Texas just outside of houston. I dont know who owns SAJ Enterprises but the adminstrative contact person is Tamar's cousin. My thoughts our this is a company Tamar started and signed herself too. | |
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but isnt copyrights totally different then master rights? copyright just means tha t she owns her publishing rights...
which good for her if she does... Space for sale... | |
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sosgemini said: but isnt copyrights totally different then master rights? copyright just means tha t she owns her publishing rights...
which good for her if she does... I dont know, i thought who ever owned the masters had the publishing rights as well. At least you cant copy the album i.e. releave the album with out permission from the owner of the masters. The person who started the thread over on the quake also said the copywright text on the c.d. read that SAJ Enterprises is the owner of the masters. [Edited 9/8/06 7:29am] | |
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Duggs said: sosgemini said: but isnt copyrights totally different then master rights? copyright just means tha t she owns her publishing rights...
which good for her if she does... I dont know, i thought who ever owned the masters had the publishing rights as well. At least you cant copy the album i.e. releave the album with out permission from the owner of the masters. The person who started the thread over on the quake also said the copywright text on the c.d. read that SAJ Enterprises is the owner of the masters. [Edited 9/8/06 7:29am]  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later. -Miles Davis- | |
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Having had some limited experience in the music industry and I see this as a great move and a kind thing for Prince to do. Her name was synonomous with Prince and that can really hurt an artist especially if Prince has been having trouble shopping her to labels. This is probably the best thing that could happen to her at this stage in her career. It will give her the space she needs to be accepted by the muckity mucks as a legitimate talent rather than a Prince production. Be that as it may. I find it interesting that he wouldn't just release her disc independently if he believes in her enough to shop her personally. "If you wanted to buy a Sam Cooke album, where would you go?" | |
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sosgemini said: but isnt copyrights totally different then master rights? copyright just means tha t she owns her publishing rights...
which good for her if she does... Copyright means the owner of exclusive rights with regard to the actual song (Lyrics / music/arrangement). This is held by whomever is named as the author/owner on the copyright documents. This is the person or entity you must pay (get permission from) before using, re-recording, altering etc. the song itself. (Unless they, the author(s) have signed away these rights to some person or entity(God Forbid). Master rights are the exclusive right and ownership of the original recordings. For instance Prince has copyrights on his catalogue with Warner but they had Master rights over the recordings so he was not in control of what was done with them. They could repackage and sell them at will. He could have re-recorded all of the tunes and re-released them because he held the copyright but control of the original Masters(recordings) was with Warner. Also copyright and publishing are two different things as well. You can own the exclusive rights to the actual songs and sign away your publishing. Which alot of new artists do unfortuntely. "If you wanted to buy a Sam Cooke album, where would you go?" | |
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sgmusic said:[quote] sosgemini said: but isnt copyrights totally different then master rights? copyright just means tha t she owns her publishing rights...
which good for her if she does... Oh and... Whomever owns the publishing in a nutshell is the person or entity that gets paid from the money that the songs earn. Whether licensed and re-recorded by other artists, sales of sheet music etc "mechanical royalties""airplay" juke boxes, reproduction of songs on CD, DAT, audiocassette, musical greeting cards, ring tones- music made for sale in any format anywhere in the world the one who holds the publishing rights gets paid. [Edited 9/8/06 9:56am] [Edited 9/8/06 10:00am] "If you wanted to buy a Sam Cooke album, where would you go?" | |
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sgmusic said: Having had some limited experience in the music industry and I see this as a great move and a kind thing for Prince to do. Her name was synonomous with Prince and that can really hurt an artist especially if Prince has been having trouble shopping her to labels. This is probably the best thing that could happen to her at this stage in her career. It will give her the space she needs to be accepted by the muckity mucks as a legitimate talent rather than a Prince production. Be that as it may. I find it interesting that he wouldn't just release her disc independently if he believes in her enough to shop her personally.
Thanks for dropping the 411. Thats the business of music or the music business which Tamar earned a degree in at U.S.C. I would have to believe she knows about publishings and copyrights, and all that mess. I believe Tamar owns her masters and copyright priveledges. The deal she got with Universal was a distrubution deal not a record deal. Now she probally could have gotten a regular record deal with a major label if she signed over her rights to her recordings, I gotta believe Prince taught her not to go that route. I dont think any "new artists" would even get looked at for distrubution deals, those go to artists that are already established. Prince had to co-sign for her I doubt there's any artist out their that could have made such a move as Prince did (get a new artist a distrubution deal). I dont think she needs Prince to release her album independently, she can do that on her own which i think is what is going on now. Prince has taken her as far as he can take her, she has to fly on her own now. | |
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Duggs said: sgmusic said: Having had some limited experience in the music industry and I see this as a great move and a kind thing for Prince to do. Her name was synonomous with Prince and that can really hurt an artist especially if Prince has been having trouble shopping her to labels. This is probably the best thing that could happen to her at this stage in her career. It will give her the space she needs to be accepted by the muckity mucks as a legitimate talent rather than a Prince production. Be that as it may. I find it interesting that he wouldn't just release her disc independently if he believes in her enough to shop her personally.
Thanks for dropping the 411. Thats the business of music or the music business which Tamar earned a degree in at U.S.C. I would have to believe she knows about publishings and copyrights, and all that mess. I believe Tamar owns her masters and copyright priveledges. The deal she got with Universal was a distrubution deal not a record deal. Now she probally could have gotten a regular record deal with a major label if she signed over her rights to her recordings, I gotta believe Prince taught her not to go that route. I dont think any "new artists" would even get looked at for distrubution deals, those go to artists that are already established. Prince had to co-sign for her I doubt there's any artist out their that could have made such a move as Prince did (get a new artist a distrubution deal). I dont think she needs Prince to release her album independently, she can do that on her own which i think is what is going on now. Prince has taken her as far as he can take her, she has to fly on her own now.  | |
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I think Tamar is in hiding cause Prince knocked her up...she was looking kinda thick on GMA. Not A Newbie, Just Reinvented | |
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DaisyHall said: I think Tamar is in hiding cause Prince knocked her up...she was looking kinda thick on GMA.
she was thick b4 she meet prince. | |
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LadyQ said: Here's a scenario that comes to mind:
You're a cute female singer with a good to okay voice. You've just finished singing up on stage with your band. A big scary bodyguard-looking dude comes up to you, bends down and says "Prince is in the back and he just heard you sing. He wants you to come back and meet with him." [psycho bathroom scene music begins to play] and your face melts into a look of terror and you yell: NOOOOO!!!!! But not to be outdone, you're up for a challenge, it's time to play: WAYS TO TURN 2 MINS OF FAME WITH PRINCE INTO 15 MINS: My ideas are: 1. Join Prince.org and start kissing ass big time, especially before anyone knows you're working with Prince. A small percentage will hate your guts after they find out, but a number of them may still like you. 2. Save all the money you make with Prince which will give you enough money for recording time, producers and to cut your own CD. 3. Forget about the major labels, find a small indie label who would be tickled to get Prince's leftovers. 4. And drop the Prince reference like bombs. Feel free to add to this list. Just think, you may be saving some young singer's career! LQ Never pose for another CD cover with milk dripping from one hand.  "If you wanted to buy a Sam Cooke album, where would you go?" | |
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1. Prince is listed as the co-writer on ASCAP so wouldn't he own part of the copyrights? The publishers/administrators are listed as:
CONTROVERSY MUSIC % UNIVERSAL MUSIC PUBLISHING GROUP 2440 SEPULVEDA BLVD. SUITE 100 LOS ANGELES , CA, 90064 Tel. (310) 235-4700 PSALM TYME MUSIC % SAJ ENTERTAINMENT INC 264 S LA CIENEGA BLVD #1294 BEVERLY HILLS , CA, 90211 Tel. (310) 485-0415 (go to this link, type in Tamar Davis & click on her name to see all the songs. Click on each song to see the details: http://www.ascap.com/ace/...imeout=300 ) So it seems we still don't seem to know who owns the "masters"... 2. On the HQ thread ( http://www.housequake.com...adid=72782 ) Raijuan posted that the contact person for SAJ Entertainment (Danielle Keys) is Tamar's cousin...and Jseven said she's Tamar's manager. the plot thickens... [Edited 9/8/06 14:44pm] | |
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Rhondab said: jseven said: Their "relationship" was strictly about music. Nothing else.
ok.  u know? when i saw her shaking around in the Fury video I was like oh is it really like that now? I've been indifferent about her as I really haven't heard enough to make up my mind but all this strictly business relationship is like pissing on my head telling me its rain i really don't buy that. | |
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sosgemini said: silverandgold said: Yeah, but at the end of the day if he announces he's having a concert, those who criticize him the most will be knocking down doors to get to his show. So as far as any opinion considered negative about him, I wouldn't worry about it, people are going to say how they feel aobut him anyway, that can't be stopped, because even he knows those same persons will be the first ones running to get tickets and whining and b***** if they can't get in to the show, even Prince knows, really, he knows.
im going to agree with you here...but why label it negative? its just folks sharing their view...i sited numerous examples of why folks would consider prince as not being very business savy...does that make everyone else's opinion wrong? no...its just me voicing my perspective... folks be taking this shit way to personal...this site isnt npgmc...differing perspectives are encouraged here.. Right, Idid say as far as any opinion considered negative, because even if you're just airing your opinion or view about him and what you say about him isn't nice, most people will always consider it a negative comment. You sure can't call it a positive statement when it actually isn't can you?  | |
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WAKE UP N SMELL THE REALLY STRONG COFFEE " the embassy shut to keep the fools out " - as above, so below. | |
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sosgemini said: bellanoche said: Thank you RodeoSchro. Some of these geniuses on the org kill me. They make Prince out to be an idiot with no business acumen because he doesn't choreograph his career to their beats. He's the living legend and they are novices who log on to a fan site devoted to him just to call him stupid. That is sooooo logical to me. ahhh...so changing your name to symbol? refering your career to slavery? releasing albums and then dropping any promotion? concentrating on non-talented hacks while greater talents get ignored? asking for camels in mnpls at 2am? those are all things that a bussiness savy person does, ehh? r.i.g.h.t. Congratulations, you've boiled down 30 years of music, 1,000's of songs, record-setting tours, Academy-award-winning movies, Grammies earned in multiple decades, more magazine covers than anyone can care to admit, and a mystique that is still able to debut an album at #1 down to 5 incidents. Prince is in the entertainment business. I think it's fair to say you've been entertained. | |
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RodeoSchro said: sosgemini said: ahhh...so changing your name to symbol? refering your career to slavery? releasing albums and then dropping any promotion? concentrating on non-talented hacks while greater talents get ignored? asking for camels in mnpls at 2am? those are all things that a bussiness savy person does, ehh? r.i.g.h.t. Congratulations, you've boiled down 30 years of music, 1,000's of songs, record-setting tours, Academy-award-winning movies, Grammies earned in multiple decades, more magazine covers than anyone can care to admit, and a mystique that is still able to debut an album at #1 down to 5 incidents. Prince is in the entertainment business. I think it's fair to say you've been entertained. | |
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RodeoSchro said: sosgemini said: ahhh...so changing your name to symbol? refering your career to slavery? releasing albums and then dropping any promotion? concentrating on non-talented hacks while greater talents get ignored? asking for camels in mnpls at 2am? those are all things that a bussiness savy person does, ehh? r.i.g.h.t. Congratulations, you've boiled down 30 years of music, 1,000's of songs, record-setting tours, Academy-award-winning movies, Grammies earned in multiple decades, more magazine covers than anyone can care to admit, and a mystique that is still able to debut an album at #1 down to 5 incidents. Prince is in the entertainment business. I think it's fair to say you've been entertained.  | |
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RodeoSchro said: sosgemini said: ahhh...so changing your name to symbol? refering your career to slavery? releasing albums and then dropping any promotion? concentrating on non-talented hacks while greater talents get ignored? asking for camels in mnpls at 2am? those are all things that a bussiness savy person does, ehh? r.i.g.h.t. Congratulations, you've boiled down 30 years of music, 1,000's of songs, record-setting tours, Academy-award-winning movies, Grammies earned in multiple decades, more magazine covers than anyone can care to admit, and a mystique that is still able to debut an album at #1 down to 5 incidents. Prince is in the entertainment business. I think it's fair to say you've been entertained. Please lecture us more, Jeff Albertson. BTW I bet your Musicology tour shirt is a little taut in the belly region. I find your sycophantic barking amusing though. Thanks for revealing yourself in all it's C.G. Glory. (I am a fan) ::in David Spade voice:: Whoever stated first "the more serious you act the more silly you actually become" said a timeless sentiment for the ages. P.S. Put your shirt back on for decency sake.  | |
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RodeoSchro said: sosgemini said: 
sure he is...sure.  LOL, generally, people who say Prince isn't logical are people who are upset with the songs that were picked for single release. One cannot last 25+ years in the music business, sell hundreds of millions of albums, and rule the music world in three (well, two-and-a-half) different decades without having a LITTLE something on the ball. P's success hasn't been because of dumb luck... I know thats Right! Gone with your bad self.  |
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Oh boy, this is sad news indeed. But, who dropped who? | |
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Do you really think an artist starting out (e.g. Tamar) would "drop" a musical genius like Prince? I don't know what happened but imho, it'd be pretty stupid to do something like that when you're trying to break into the biz...
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DevotedPuppy said: Do you really think an artist starting out (e.g. Tamar) would "drop" a musical genius like Prince? I don't know what happened but imho, it'd be pretty stupid to do something like that when you're trying to break into the biz...
I could be Prince...I wonder why. | |
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SO woooow, Tamar is done before she even started. This is actually very upseting, I think Tamar is very talented and I was looking forward to actually buying a CD after I dont know how long because there is such crap on the radio nowadays. Damn, I really hope she finds a way to break the glass ceiling.   &  | |
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