In 2000 when Prince was invited to participate in a Revolution reunion tour, and told Wendy through Bobby Z, for Wendy and Lisa to hold a press conference denouncing their homosexual lifestyle and being Jewish, according to "Possessed:Rise And Fall Of Prince", it seemed to me that Alex Hahn unfairly made Larry Graham look like this pseudo-religios Svengali brainwashing him about Jews, homosexuality, "and the truth", and turning him against Wendy and Lisa. Can anybody else provide any insight as to whether Wendy resents Larry for that. It seems like when Prince befriended Larry, it alienated Wendy and Lisa.

Well he seems to have taken his head out of Larry long enough to play with Wendy a few times since and both Wendy and Lisa just a few weeks ago at the Brits. And only Wendy could answer if she resents Larry, probably no more than the rest of us do

Seems like he's learned to be tolerant of W+L lifestyle and keeps in contact with them alot more. For a while it seemed like he was choosing Larry over reuniting with W+L,2 people who have known him longer, and deep down cared for him more than he knew.

bashraka said:

I don't think Mr. Graham needed any help in appearing that way to others.

What? Homosexuals in the entertainment industry? Quick, go hide the kids!

Who knows?

But my working theory (as a queer, Jewish woman myself) is that they're probably just not that thin skinned. Any queer person deals with a fair amount of prejudice just living in this society; harboring resentment over it is a complete waste of energy and time that could be spent on other endeavors. (Like, oh, playing music with the dozens of folks that aren't going to malign you in the name of religion.)

NouveauDance said:

QFT

bashraka said:

I have work with Wendy and Lisa on and off for over 20 years. I think there both beautiful people I just adore them. With that said I know the real story here, and I can tell you without any hesitation P is his own man. No one is going to influence P on how he looks at things, not Larry Alan Steve Gilbert Chick Bob or Mani. It’s just not going to happen. So let’s abandon this idea that Larry is the one behind this
[Edited 4/14/06 15:34pm]

ShellAnswerMan said:

...and that makes perfect sense to me, too. i don't remember that tidbit from Possessed, but after all, Prince had difficulty maintaining his friendship with the girls for ten years before he ever met Larry.

The homosexuality thing, well, that I would have to see confirmed... I'll look back through the book. I hate hearing anything, rumors or otherwise, about Prince being homophobic or religiously judgemental of gays... his openness gave me a lot of courage when I was young.

ShellAnswerMan said:

Even control freaks can become vulnerable to manipulation when they've lost their loved ones tragically, and the man in question is one of his musical heroes.

skip said:

If the rumours are true, I'll go and slap some sense into him myself. But unless someone can prove Prince really said those things, I won't believe it. Prince may occasionally be a dickhead, but I doubt he'd go as far as to be homophobic.

That said -if he was homophobic, the fact that he wears makeup and girly clothes would be very interesting, to say the least.

PurpleKnight said:[quote]

ShellAnswerMan said:

I guess anything is possible. My experience with P has made me think different; to be honest with you I think this is more about Larry and P being JW’s than anything else
[Edited 4/14/06 15:35pm]

ShellAnswerMan said:[quote]

PurpleKnight said:

I don't think it'd be such an issue if a) Larry wasn't so creepy and annoying simply as a man (not as a JW), and b) TRC's lyrics weren't so archaic and borderline prejudiced.
[Edited 4/14/06 16:01pm]

meow85 said:

Bobby Z did said that Prince and Larry made some offended comments about Lisa and Wendy's lifestyle, and quite frankly I don't think Bobby would made something like that up. Bobby said he totally lost respect for Prince after that. Even Wendy said that Prince wanted her to denounce her homosexuality in favor of joining JW. She was like hell to the naw.
I don't think neither of them have anything to gain if they were going to lie about what Prince said. Prince ought to be slap for saying things like that especially when he was the opposite back in the 80s.
[Edited 4/14/06 20:08pm]

dewalliz said:

I totally agree, and I know that the quickest way for me to have a big ol Prince yardsale on my frontlawn is for him to say anything against gays, or any race.

Wendy and Lisa don't need to do anything but keep making the music they do and to be happy which they are!

dewalliz said:

***

As much as I am concerned over many JW teachings, parts of this story just do not ring true with me.

People cannot just 'convert' and become a Jehovah's Witness on a 'whim'. It takes many months and often years of intensive study, meeting attendance and the gradual accumulation of further responsibilities such as the door-to-door ministry, before they will even consider anyone for baptism.

Due to this I just cannot see Prince urging them to denounce their lifestyle and 'convert'. It is just not that simple.

However, Prince and Larry may indeed have made disparaging remarks about homosexuality that were overheard by Bobby, I don't know.

Personally, I think Larry has very little to do with this, but consistently gets the blame because fans would rather blame him than Prince.

Ultimately, Prince makes all the choices. That is why Wendy and Lisa were at the brits this year.

Thetan said:

So you saying that Bobby Z and Wendy are liars? When I have the time, I am going to find their quotes over the net. I am sorry yo but I just don't think those disparaging remarks that Prince said are untrue. Although I am not a homosexual, I was appalled and disappointed with Prince when they claimed he made those remarks.
[Edited 4/15/06 6:21am]

dewalliz said:

I agree with Thetan. The problem is there are sources out there that are providing fallacious information. Next point if Larry and P we’re Overheard having a private conversation, it’s not fair to P or Larry that this info was disseminated. I mean all of us have our own view points; it would be different if he situate it in a song or said it in an interview. One of the reasons I join the org was I was tired of seeing erroneous information posted on this board there’s way too much speculation here. Like Thetan said it takes many months and often years of rigorous study to became an Jehovah's Witness. So I find it odd that P going through this progression himself would expect Wendy and Lisa to make changes in there life at the drop of hat. Dewalliz even if you do find their quotes on the net, how reliable is that source? I’m not sure when these alleged quotes were made, but the fact that he and Wendy continue to work together should speak volumes to all of us
[Edited 4/15/06 9:21am]

ShellAnswerMan said:

So very true, esp. what I highlighted in bold. It's funny how so many people are willing to believe anything that was allegedly heard and take it as complete fact. It kinda like the fake tracklistings that come up every now and then, esp. around April 1. No source to back them up, but watch how many people get in an uproar like Prince delivered the info himself.

skip said:

Actually, that part is true. I remember a lot of that going on in "real time" around the time of the Roadhouse Garden rumors right after Girl Bros. came out.

ShellAnswerMan said:

In dewalliz's defense, it wasn't from a private conversation that was overheard. It was in Uptown and it was from Bobby Z himself.


July 23, 2000

Minneapolis Star Tribune reports that Wendy Melvoin is in town to discuss a reunion of The Revolution with Prince. The Revolution's drummer, Bobby Z Rivkin, also met with Prince to talk about the possibilities of doing something with the band. However, Prince told Rivkin that prior to any reunion, Wendy and Lisa Coleman would be required to publicly renounce their homosexuality. Rivkin left the meeting bitterly disappointed, vowing never to work with Prince again. He felt Prince's viewpoints were influenced by Larry Graham.

Prince didn't want them to become JW's, just publicly renounce who they are which is sickening.

Bottomline, Prince loves Wendy and Lisa and he proved that by attending their shows last year in L.A. and calling them to do some shows with them over the last few years. Look at how Prince looks at Wendy on Tavis and tell me he doesn't love that woman! I'm just glad that they are on better terms now. But one thing is forsure, when Wendy and Lisa and Prince work together again in the studio, it will be pure magic.

I totally agree with both of y'all. One of the reasons I've stuck with Prince throughout the years, through the different style changes and giving them a chance to grow on me, is because Prince was a very strong role model for me growing up. He had a very feminine look but his music and attitude was so strong, it was almost like giving people the finger if they didn't like it.

Those statements really pissed me off when I read the book. I don't know if it's true or not but it sure changed how I view Prince. If Prince himself were to publicly make those statements, I wouldn't throw away his old music though because I would see it as music he made before he lost his damn mind.
.
.
[Edited 4/15/06 14:53pm]

IT'S NOT WHAT LARRY OR WHAT PRINCE SAYS ON HOMOSEXUALITY THAT MATTERS,
IT'S WHAT GOD SAYS AND VIEWS ON THE MATTER IS WHAT YOU SHOULD REALLY PONDER OVER.

RosesRred said:

So what are you saying?

ShellAnswerMan said:

Since EverlastingNow found what Bobby Z said here is what Wendy said and this is from StarTribune. http://www.startribune.com/stories/374. You have to register order to view the stories.
WENDY MELVOIN: We tried to put together a [Revolution] reunion tour in
2000, and he declined because of my homosexuality and the fact I'm
half-Jewish. It came back: Go have a press conference denouncing your
homosexuality and that you're converting to Jehovah. I was like: I
guess we'll never hear from him again. And I had to kind of mourn him.
It was devastating to think we've kind of lost him.

If this source isn't ironclad with the reliablility then I dont know what is.
[Edited 4/15/06 16:12pm]

Alliasan said:

Me too Alliasan.I remembered when I used to be a regular on AMP(not as a poster but lurker) and that was around 1998, I believed, there was Prince vs Wendy and Lisa going on. The reason why I remembered it so well because it went on for like many months, and at the time I was a junior at high school and used my school library computer and had a kicked as the posters were trashing each other as they were taking sides of Prince or Lisa and Wendy. I also remembered Prince mocked at them from his old website was also talked about.The messages are still at AMP last time I checked.
But I am glad that Prince is reaching out to people that he hurted though.
[Edited 4/15/06 16:13pm]

dewalliz said:

Dewalliz, thanks for the link I don’t have much time to respond right now, but I will. I will also make a couple of phone calls tonight.

ShellAnswerMan said:

Whoa Shelly... In all the years I've known you, you've never ceased to amaze me! Where did you come up with words like fallacious? "People don't talk like that anymore." (Nick Cage in National Treasure) You have single handedly proven that we bodyguards are not just "big, dumb, jockish bouncers"!!! Thank you! Of course, judging by this elementary thread, you may want to consider "dumbing it down"! If you want to use words such as I highlighted above, you might want to consider moving your comments over to Housquake or, better yet, save your elevated intelligence for TruePrinceStories...

Your words about P being his own man (uh, sorry militants, 'person'), were right on the money! From my experience(s) with him, NO ONE but P tells P what to think, feel, believe, say or do!

As for the "StarTribune" validity of Bobby's and Wendy's claims regarding P's views on Wendy's and Lisa's preferences, since when is anything gossip columnist CJ says taken with more than a grain of sea salt??! Until I talk to Bobby, or our girls, Wendy and Lisa, "duuh, I ain't belivin' nuttin'!"

dewalliz said:

Those are still only second-hand accounts though. And honestly, they could have a whole list of reasons to talk shit about Prince. Secondly, it's possible he said something hateful without actually meaning it. It's not one of humanity's more charming traits, but it happens all the time. Not saying it can't be true or trying to excuse Prince at all if it is, mind you. Just that it doesn't make for definitive proof, either.

And like I said, if it turns out Prince is homophobic, my bisexual ass'll track him down and knock some sense into him myself.

.
[Edited 4/16/06 1:52am]