Yeah, I knew that would get all u sleepy heads attention. But dig though, it's largely true. Not the creative process of writing and playing and producing, but the heat the o.g. lineup of The Time put on P in late 81-early 82. Look, the material P cut for The Time's first album was material P COULD have done for himself after Dirty Mind. BUT, P wanted to look deeper into what he thought to be a "crossover" market that spelled $$$ and stardom. That, so he thought, wasn't going to happen with the material from The Time's album. It was "too black" sounding to crossover. Even though it outsold Dirty Mind. Next up is Controversy, which besides the title cut and "Let's Work", it's a patchy album at best. Not half as cohesive and focused as Dirty Mind or The Time's first album. Then came "What Time Is It?". The cuts on this was blistering. "777-9311", "The Walk" and "Wild and Loose" was kicking major ass on a lot of what P himself was doing. Snce P wrote these songs, he has, as he has said, created a monster. Now when it comes time for him to cut his next album, he's not so quick to toss off material to The Time like he was in the past. "International Lover" was at first intended for The Time. P retracted that. If The Time didn't exist, would P had released something like "D.M.S.R."? That song was the closest thing, musically, to The Time that P had released under his name. One of the main things that made the 1999 album so brilliant is that P is pulling out all the stops. Why? One, is to show that he's harder than The Time. Three words; Lady Cab Driver. One word; Automatic. The very essence of what The Time was about, P had to outshine. I believe this fueld the making of the 1999 album. Your thoughts?

interesting observation. Though I think the "ladycab driver and Automatic" lyrics would've been a little too deep for Morris. However musically I see what you saying.But I always thought it would've been difficult for P to be taken serious if he'd done song like "the walk" or "the bird". Maybe some of ther others he could've kept. Needless to say it would've been interesting.

BlaqueKnight said:

Thanx, Blaque. Very true, the cats that were around P back in the day were crucial as hell to what P was doing. Dez, Andre and Fink goes without saying. The thing that made P dangerous to be around if u were a musician was that P would hear a little riff that u might be fucking around with while u were tuning your guitar and shit. All the while, P's over there in the corner with a tape recorder, taping it. Granted, none of the cats, even Andre and Jessie, could fuck with P as an writer, an artist, a performer and most importantly, a producer. That's where P has the up on all of them and he knew it.

I agree with much of what you say. The Time brought out the best in Prince. That rivalry thing really led to some kick-ass music. That's whats missing now. No real competition. There are those who out-sell him, but they can't beat him writing and performing. Morris Day still makes most of his living from the songs written by Prince 20 years ago. Jesse and Cymone are awol. Jam and Lewis have sold out so to speak. Consequently, Prince has little incentive to really kick ass like he did in the past.

I can definately see that, yep. But thank you JESUS that he kept "lady cab driver" for himself LMAO!!! I'm glad he didn't give that to the Time!

Morris could've never pulled off Lady Cabdriver. He had enough problems with Hi School. I love Day though.

I think just having these guys around him, was a great influence on Prince. When someone is surrounded by a cool crowd, it brings out the cool in them.

blackguitaristz said:

hey, dont forget about lisa....


what about gayle chapman? was she as involved as the others?

Prince himself admitted on a tv interview that he should've kept some of the Times material for himself. After the Time Prince was much more careful about the songs he gave to his proteges. I also read that different members of the Time and the Revolution would turn him on to different artists that he'd never listen to before. Wendy and Lisa gave him Joni Mitchell and John Lennon albums. Dez turned him on to Eric Clapton and Creedence Clearwater Revival. Those musical styles definitely come out in his music. And have made him what he is today.

Very interesting take on things... There might be a lot of truth in that.

blackguitaristz said:

No thoughts....

Just dig the observations...

The Time were a gigantic threat to Prince...



[Edited 11/29/05 8:00am]

ThePunisher said:

Well, P was already hip to Joni. Joni remembers seeing a teenage P in the front row at one of her shows. So, Lisa and Wendy had nothing to do with Joni. I heard that they hipped him to The Beatles, which I find very hard to believe. P was very up on his music and artists, growing up.

blackguitaristz said:

not true...lisa hipped prince to her favorite joni album, "the hissing of summer lawn". many people here got the impression joni was speaking mistruths with her lil story.

david coleman hipped prince to the beatles. if my memory serves correctly. no wait, he hipped him to "world music". nevermind.

Excellent observtion, blackguitarist. This could also be the reason why P did not produce a Time album in '82 or '83. He probably was trying to get people to forget about them and concentrate on him.

ares said:

Thanx. But P DID produce What Time Is It? (1982) and Ice Cream Castles (1984).

sosgemini said:

Didn't know Joni made that up. I know u always champion Lisa and Wendy. U don't have to defend them to me. I've always dug the hell out of Lisa and I know she brought a lot to what P was doing in the early days. I know P gives it up to Joni on the back of the Controversy album. Maybe Lisa turned P on to her right away since Lisa had only been with the band a year.

This is a COOL thread - makes me remember how it felt back in the day when P came out with 1999 and 777-9311 was all over black radio. My best friend and I wanted to be musicians like P and company - we even wanted to produce a group of lingerie-clad honeys (sound familiar?). Nowadays, the kids around my way aspire to be thugs - we've been doing the community meeting thingee with the police 'n stuff. What these kids need are instruments in their hands

It's amazing how the days of "x-rated Prince" seem so glorious and innocent in hindsight. I miss those days...

JesseDezz said:

Yep.

blackguitaristz said:

Nice takes.

But y'all are talking like that's in the past.

I saw the Musicology Tour 3 times here in L.A.
The first time there was no opening act. The second night it was Shelia E.
Both times he put on great shows.

But the third show, it was The Time.
My son and I were in the last row of the floor seats.
(very close to the tunnel where the band enters)

Most folks had no idea The Time were on the bill so when they hit the stage pandemonium ensued. And it only got worse/better.
Half way through their set, when it appeared that Staples Center was going to cave in from the groove, my son tapped me on the shoulder.
He pointed behind us and there standing in the tunnel checking out the Time-Mania was Prince.
We're were'nt more than 20-30 yards away from him so I could see him clearly.
Now this guy's seen The Time perform before. I'm convinced what brought him out was the sound of the crowd going berserk.
When he turned and went back down the tunnel he had this look on his face like, "You asked for it."

Let me tell you, Prince played the set that night like his life was in jeopardy. Without question the best of the 3 nights.

Oh yeah, healthy competition like that is a damn good thing for all concerned.
The old-school musicians used to call it "head-cuttin'".


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

That's a great observation
I saw the Time open for Prince on 3 musicology shows and after they played i told my buddy that prince was really going to have to have his A game to follow that. Thats not to say he doesn't put on a fantastic show anyway, but those shows it seemed like he had more to prove and they were some of the best concerts I've ever seen

Rhastus said:

oh, i totally disagree with your guy's take of the recent time band..without jesse the band is a bore. nobody even cared they were opening in oakland. people ignored them.

they arent a challenge to prince anymore (with their repeat autopilot shows).

sosgemini said:

St. Nick ,

My point was not that The Time's performance was that great.
It's about the crowd's reaction to them (at Staples Center anyway).
That's what got Prince's attention.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

that thingie is soo cute..and now i get your point...oakland was wierd...i was waiting in line to get a drink and hadnt even realized they were out playing cause the audience reaction was low..i just assummed it was a no-name band and then we walk out and im like, "ooops...missed it"..

sosgemini said:

No I'm sorry you're wrong, Prince already knew about Joni way before he met Lisa

theAudience said:

Yeah, I also went on the third night at Staples. I was hooked up from knowing and having recorded with Morris. Plus, I've known Tori since 89. Our bands used to "head cut" during the Black Rock Coalition shows. Anyway, I could sense that P had that "It's time to not only take this lineup to school, BUT this crowd to school as well." P works best with something to prove, like most true artists. I think that was the incentive of inviting this lineup along in the first place. To publicly whoop their ass. O.G. fans already know better. P couldn't fuck with The Time in 82-83. At The Staple Center, it was a brand new day. Half of that lineup had been gone, filled in with some replacements. Folks were so happy to even see Purple Rain brought back to life that they didn't give a fuck if Grover from Sesame Street was on guitar. Just as long as they did The Bird.

onenitealone said:

Thanx. Just something I've always thought.

theAudience said:

This was a great story. Wish I were there to see it firsthand.

Prince's songwriting in 1982/1983 was incredible. Whether it was 1999, What Time Is It or Vanity 6 the man was on-fire. Tunes like Automatic, Lady Cab Driver, Wild And Loose, Nasty Girl were incredible -brilliantly performed and produce. I agree The Time forced P to raise his game but the brother at this point was already on a mission.

PS: I love Blackguitarists posts - keep 'em coming.

blackguitaristz said:

Pretty good.