the 1st 2 time albums were Prince and morris the band were actually cats from High school. story goes prince needed a few new songs morris actually wrote "Uptown" prince bought it from morris in exchange for a deal at Warners prince always dug mo' as a drummer if you ask him who influenced u on the drums he'll say Mo' without a doubt.

TheRealFiness said:

Thanks. I think it was "Partyup" that Morris wrote. I guess what I'm wondering is was it Morris' name the on the contract? Was it Prince's? Did it say the time?

heckaslammin said:

It was supposedly Partyup. But there are stories about half of the Dity Mind album regarding others writing the songs. The worst being Andre Cymone actually writing Uptown. Cymone has never written anything half as good so I am sure thats bullshit.

The reason that the name "The Time" is not used is because I bet Prince owns it. That is why the name was "Morris Day and The Time" when they were on the road and making money independently of Prince. The first 4 albums are credited to The Time because Prince was over all of those. Its About Time is independent of Prince, NPG, Paisley Park or any other business Prince business connection - which would explain why it is Morris Day getting top billing with no mention of The Time. It may also explain why that album is so badly produced.

heckaslammin said:

heckaslammin said:

It was supposedly Partyup. But there are stories about half of the Dity Mind album regarding others writing the songs. The worst being Andre Cymone actually writing Uptown. Cymone has never written anything half as good so I am sure thats bullshit.

The reason that the name "The Time" is not used is because I bet Prince owns it. That is why the name was "Morris Day and The Time" when they were on the road and making money independently of Prince. The first 4 albums are credited to The Time because Prince was over all of those. Its About Time is independent of Prince, NPG, Paisley Park or any other business Prince business connection - which would explain why it is Morris Day getting top billing with no mention of The Time. It may also explain why that album is so badly produced.

Rhastus. Are you out there? Can you help me on this?

Well, to chime in on this; Andre wrote the music to Uptown, not the lyrics. Andre bit the music from The Rolling Stones hit "Miss You" cuz he knew that P worshipped Mick. He had no intention on keeping the song for himself. What fucked it up for him was that P didn't give him co-writing credit, which is all Andre wanted in the first place. After Andre quit after the Dirty Mind tour, P went in and cut the music to "Do Me, Baby" which the music, the melody and parts of the lyrics was also written by Andre alone. The main reason P cut "Do Me, Baby" when he did was cuz he was pissed at Andre for quiting. "Do Me, Baby" is a cut Andre wrote when he and P was doing session work for Pepe Willie around 76. One of the main reasons Andre quit was because of P taking credit for full authorship on songs when in some cases, it was a joint effort. This happened to Dez as well. So, to add salt to Andre's wounds, P turned right back around and cut "Do Me, Baby".

They probably didnt have copyrights for their songs. It's difficult to argue you wrote a song when someone else had it copywritten before you. This is particularly true if the person being sued is a very accomplished musician and capable of writing a decent song in 30 minutes.

brothaluv said:

-----
Exactly, you don't have a claim if you can't prove that you wrote the song.
None of these people copyrighted anything. If Prince can figure this out why can't anybody else.

co-sign!!!! and some of his former associates should ought to have a clue how he operates in regardling who gets the credit to the song yet they continued to share their material with Prince, and guess what happens it is going to be on Prince's album and Prince gets the full credit since he the one calls all the shots.

sonofblade said:

Well, to chime in on this; Andre wrote the music to Uptown, not the lyrics. Andre bit the music from The Rolling Stones hit "Miss You" cuz he knew that P worshipped Mick. He had no intention on keeping the song for himself. What fucked it up for him was that P didn't give him co-writing credit, which is all Andre wanted in the first place. After Andre quit after the Dirty Mind tour, P went in and cut the music to "Do Me, Baby" which the music, the melody and parts of the lyrics was also written by Andre alone. The main reason P cut "Do Me, Baby" when he did was cuz he was pissed at Andre for quiting. "Do Me, Baby" is a cut Andre wrote when he and P was doing session work for Pepe Willie around 76. One of the main reasons Andre quit was because of P taking credit for full authorship on songs when in some cases, it was a joint effort. This happened to Dez as well. So, to add salt to Andre's wounds, P turned right back around and cut "Do Me, Baby".

I'm just speculating...a bit here, but are you folks certain that Morris et al
actually inked a record deal with Warner Bros? Could it be that the group was put together as part of a production deal Prince had with Warners to develop a stable of acts under his direction? Morris may have been the frontman, but it seems to me that he didn't have that much input into the bands direction behind the scenes. Especially with the a huge debacle over wages & performing & writting credits. They seemed to be treated more as side-men rather than members of a working band

Anyways...thats my 2+ cents on the topic.


Peace.....

-KSTRAT-

laurarichardson said:

co-sign!!!! and some of his former associates should ought to have a clue how he operates in regardling who gets the credit to the song yet they continued to share their material with Prince, and guess what happens it is going to be on Prince's album and Prince gets the full credit since he the one calls all the shots.

dewalliz said:

The inevitable question emerges: Is karma responsible for Prince's muscial decline? I think the man is indeed a genius. But you have to admit, his work has fallen off since Sign O' The Times. Its impossible to listen to Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999 and Purple Rain without having an EARGASM! Sheer bliss. After that, things began to cool somewhat. Could this be poetic justice? Hey, I'm just speculating. Don't tar and feather me.

blackguitaristz said:

Wow,you know what? Come to think of it,the riff on "Uptown" does kinda resemble "Miss You" by the Rolling Stones

dewalliz said:

damn..i hate when my puter crashes mid-post..real quick:

1) umm..we are talking about a very short time period here...

2) they did get a clue..hence andre leaving...hence wendy and lisa leaving....hence tommy b and sonny t suing prince.

3) how you gonna copywrite something mid-creation?

4) these were all young kids...they didnt know what they were doing..prince was in control of the situation and manipulated his power. now, as time passed some of these folks didnt mind sharing their ideas (dr. fink and even wendy and lisa come to mind)..they understood the quid pro quo that was in place and thats fine...but whats not fine is when prince takes something (like in andre's case) without prior concent. thats theft no matter what color you paint it.

5) off the record, prince has committed to compensate some of these kats but has yet to do it.

6) prince has gone back and given wendy and lisa credit for some of their stuff...power fantastic comes to mind...maybe one or two other cases...so there is precedent for what im talking about.

sosgemini said:

Prince was young back then too and as a matter of fact some of his associates were older than him, but Prince even knows about copyright proceedure even back then. So are you saying because his associates were young was that the reason why they didn't know about the copyright issue? Hell I was younger than them yet because of the field i am pursue being a fictional writer, I have to know it. I don't know how much they actually knew of it, but I felt it is a MUST for a musician to have some knowledge about the issue.

You can have your work copyright in the beginning or in the middle of a creating process but most people preferred to get their work protected once the work is completed before sharing it with others. But that is not the point, and the point is that Prince's associates had a clue of his crediting policies and rather than taking it as a lesson learning they willing to share their material with him in the studio or in the jam session. All that is fine but what isn't cool is that they complained about it many years later and bitched about Prince screw them over making them out that they were bunch of clueless teenagers (which they weren't) at the time.

If Prince was so manipulate and control maniac, I always pondered why they stayed with him for more than two years, and after all none of the associates was under contract. I don't think working for Prince more than three years is a short period of time in my eyes.

Like some of the posters say, it is hard to believe how much they contribute where there's lack of proof. We all know Dez played guitar solo on Little Red Corvette, or that Lisa sang female to the song Head and that Matt performed on Dirty Mind song. I am not saying what they claim are fabrications But show me some proof of the claims that's all I asking, or else all the claims are just hearsay, and won't even stand in the court of law.

If they didn't have a clue about copyright before sharing their ideas with Prince then I really felt bad for them and no wonder Prince easily screwed them. That one thing I admired Prince is he knows his shit when comes to certain aspects of the law.
[Edited 12/9/05 12:57pm]

dewalliz said:

ive given you proof..Power Fantastic was registered under Prince Roger Nelson. Wendy & Lisa had to threaten a lawsuit to get their names (and royality) for The Hits/B Side album. more proof, Sonny T and Tommy B sued Prince.

other proof? andre left. dr. fink and bobby z seem fine with their contributions (or lack of credit). theres a great interview at housequake w/ dr. fink where he declares such. and prince was the one being represented by a studio so of course he is going to be the one who is taught copywrite law.

and lets not forget these collaberations took place as "jam sessions". you cant copyright that.

sosgemini said:

How do any of us really know what happened? What if there was a clause in Prince's contract w/Warner Brothers about such? All the claims that "fans or non-fans" seem to know astonish me..Sonny T and Tommy B sued Prince? What came out of the suit/claim? I don't see any of these "artists" who alledgedly made these claims at the top of any music billboards...whew...I'm done...[Edited 12/9/05 15:27pm]
[Edited 12/9/05 15:27pm]

dewalliz said:

ive given you proof..Power Fantastic was registered under Prince Roger Nelson. Wendy & Lisa had to threaten a lawsuit to get their names (and royality) for The Hits/B Side album. more proof, Sonny T and Tommy B sued Prince.

other proof? andre left. dr. fink and bobby z seem fine with their contributions (or lack of credit). theres a great interview at housequake w/ dr. fink where he declares such. and prince was the one being represented by a studio so of course he is going to be the one who is taught copywrite law.

and lets not forget these collaberations took place as "jam sessions". you cant copyright that.

sosgemini said:

How do any of us really know what happened? What if there was a clause in Prince's contract w/Warner Brothers about such? All the claims that "fans or non-fans" seem to know astonish me..Sonny T and Tommy B sued Prince? What came out of the suit/claim? I don't see any of these "artists" who alledgedly made these claims at the top of any music billboards...whew...I'm done...
[Edited 12/9/05 15:27pm]
[Edited 12/9/05 15:27pm]

What turns me off is that they complained about years later not getting the credit that they deserves but while they were with Prince they didn't seem bother by it and like WTF??

yes..yes you can copyright jam sessions but that wasnt my point..my point was that members within the band would improvise during jams....prince would then take those ideas and incorporate them into songs...without permission

this just isnt the case..andre left right away..and he has always been upfront...sonny t and tommy b sued right after they left the npg. wendy & lisa have always been upfront about it....dr. fink has never had beef with not getting credit for his contributions..he was simply explaining the creative process in the housequake article...he isnt asking for anything.