Like some of you, in the past year or so I've been feeling increasingly affected by many of the negative comments posted here on the Org, to the extent that I pass on whole pages of them. More and more, I feel less happy about being a Prince fan. But is it the negative comments, is it Prince's output, or am I obsessing too much? What's been going on?

As the Org has played such an important part of the Prince music experience for so long, I wanted to offer some constructive thoughts on what might improve things. These thoughts also touch on being a Prince fan, why we follow this man's music, and how we can get the most out of the experience. Some of the below may seem basic, but I hope it makes a positive contribution overall.

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As you read on, I encourage you to ponder on these questions, and any others that come to mind:

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How can listening to Prince's music be as enjoyable as possible?

How can the online fan experience be of maximum quality?
How can we keep our fandom to a healthy balance in our lives?

First up, an important question: Why are we Prince fans? A fair answer might be: We're here to enjoy the experience. Of course, that's not necessarily the same as liking the music, which I'll discuss later.

With that answer as my base assumption, I argue that our enjoyment of the Prince experience is affected by factors that include the following:

1. How we experience the music
2. How wisely we use the internet as fans
3. Our grasp of quality conversation
4. How happy and satisfied we are in our own lives

Below, I'll discuss these elements and make some suggestions to improve how we connect with each element.

1. How we experience the music

Many of us use computers (online and offline) heavily for listening to new and old Prince music. Through our computers, our entire music collection is easily accessible and well arranged; we can also discover and access new music easily and quickly. When you step back for a moment, it's amazing all this is possible.

There's some downsides, though. Because of computers, it's easy for music to become a background noise, something we listen to while doing something else, with our eyes glued to the screen, alone. The ease of accessing music (for free, if you want) reduces its value – we can have any song, any time. There's no waiting or anticipation. We don't savor an album, or even a song, in its entirety; if a track gets boring or we dislike it, the next one is a click away.

To improve the experience, we might...

Listen to Prince in the company of others. For instance, we could organize gatherings to hear and discuss Prince's music. Or we could go to a beautiful place and sing along to Prince songs, accompanied by people playing instruments. Prince would become folk music!

Listen to music in interesting places. It's wonderful to attach music to a certain place (especially outside) or a memory. Get away from the computer! Recently, I listened to Around the World in a Day while on the train through the Sierra mountains. When LotusFlower came out, I listened to it sitting on a bench overlooking the Golden Gate Bridge.

Hear the music on vinyl. Having to put a record on, lower the needle, and then turn over to Side B helps us to focus on the music and not to skip around too easily.

2. How wisely we use the internet as fans

The internet is an incredible medium to deepen our Prince knowledge and to discuss all aspects of the Prince world. No wonder, the internet dominates the fan experience for many of us.

But the internet also presents great challenges for a healthy fan experience. Without face to face contact, our conversation partners are dehumanized; it becomes easier to be rude to others when we don't see how we're affecting them. Moreover, the internet is a powerful dopamine reward system that encourages us to obsessively check back for updates. This increases the perception of waiting time between music releases, leading to boredom and frustration.

To improve this situation, we might...

Treat others with respect and think before you post. Remember that those who read our online comments are real people with feelings. Are we contributing to an enjoyable, valuable experience?

Limit our time on the Org. I only allow myself to visit the Org once every 2 weeks. This has reduced obsessive habits, such as checking back all the time for updates, making the wait between music releases less frustrating.

Institute an Ignore/member rating function on the Org or more freely ban members who corrode conversation. These are controversial and perhaps technically complex measures with potentially great dangers but they could still be discussed.

3. Our grasp of quality conversation

This could go under the above section but it merits singling out. As mentioned above, while we are presumably here on the Org to enjoy the experience, we can't expect to like all the music Prince produces. But we can have an enjoyable time even with music we don't like if we can intelligently and politely discuss that music.

A prime example of how to do it right is the Peach & Black podcast. If you've not heard the show, check it out! The P&B team do a stunning job of dissecting Prince's work. They frequently dislike particular tracks and constantly disagree with each other, but the spirit of the conversation is upbeat, fun, respectful, and considerable (usually!) effort and time goes into explaining someone's opinion about a track.

The Peach & Black podcast should be a model for quality conversation. We may not all have the critical abilities of the P&B team, but we can always try our best and and apply good conversation standards.

How we might keep the conversation quality high:

Understand the difference between intelligent and disrespectful criticism. For instance, “Prince experimented with many more musical styles in the mid 80s”, rather than “Prince hasn't released a good song in 20 years”.

Use examples and avoid blanket statements. For instance, “The dynamic range in The Breakdown really harms the track” rather than “Prince's post 80s music sounds crap”.

Criticize points, not people. Don't diss someone's critical skills for choosing We March as best track on TGE, talk about that track's impact on you and suggest an alternative song.

4. How happy and satisfied we are in our own lives

One of the greatest joys of intimately knowing Prince's music is when a song connects with us in a special way. When we're in love Adore only makes it sweeter, Lavaux reminds us of happy traveling memories, Gold encourages us to push to new heights.

Or often, we're not even thinking about Prince. Prince can't alone satisfy our whole lives, probably not even our music listening lives. We may feel disappointed by what he does, we may even be disappointed by entire sections of his career. But there comes a point where we have to let it go – Prince is one tiny atom in the world, we're wasting our lives if we obsess over him too much.

You can tell those on the Org with happy lives: They really enjoy the good music and they enjoy discussing the not so good music, they're kind and respectful toward others, and they put Prince into a healthy perspective.

So be happy! That's a whole other discussion to which innumerable books and articles are dedicated. I leave that to you.


What do you think? Feel free to answer the questions at the top of this piece or to raise any other things you thought of while reading. Over to you...

gubbins4ever said:

Like some of you, in the past year or so I've been feeling increasingly affected by many of the negative comments posted here on the Org,

I've just addressed this in another thread, essentially I've reiterated my stance that flame/bait/troll users are not going to be tolerated any longer. It's got out of control and it needs to stop. I will be issuing strikes and bans. As far as I can tell, it's actually a small but vocal minority of users and I think the overall atmosphere here can improve quite dramatically once these people are dealt with.

Excellent points and questions!

It IS easy to get swallowed up by negativity, and I'm sure Prince.org isn't the only fan site with negative members. They can be bothersome and when they turn into bullies, that's not good. But as Militant said, that's something being worked on by them. So let's get to the music!

I've been a fan since "Soft and Wet". There's not a song I haven't heard; a tour I haven't seen; or a thing I haven't done Prince-wise. Here is what I learned many years ago, and it has been the key to enjoying the Prince ride to its max:

Prince will do what he wants, when he wants, for whatever reasons he has. Period.

No amount of caterwauling, cajoling, begging, pleading, yelling, bribing or any other -ing will ever get Prince to do anything on anyone else's timetable but his.

I know this can be frustrating at first but after you accept it as (Prince) reality, you learn to do this:

Enjoy what you have. When new music comes, it comes. Until then, enjoy what you have (or find stuff you don't already have and enjoy that, too).

I use the Org as my place for Prince news, sparse as that might be these days. I enjoy debating in P&R. I like laughing and making others laugh in GD. I will ocassionaly go on like an old man about "How much better music was when I was young!" in the Non-Prince forum. And I salivate over the concert setlists, since Prince hasn't played Houston, Texas in 10 years.

Hope this helps. Thanks for your thoughtful post!

This is a thoughtful post.

It's very hard not to be comsume by anger, especially when you come across members who refuse to agree to disagree. People take misunderstandings and differences of opinions too far. It's enough to make me what to deactivate my membership. I hope that Militant succeeds in what he is attempting to accomplish. Get the bullies out and bring objectivity back.

Great post. I don't have anything to add. You said everything.

this is ... ugh

yeah maybe if we were all getting blow jobs while we listened to prince it would improve the experience

here is your answer

prince could put out some GOOD music ..

simple as that

no more bitching

putting it on in the background only improves the music .. listening closely .. especially to the lyrics .. makes it worse

an alternative improving choice ..

prince could stop putting out music (which he thankfully did for a while) and he could stop touring

both of those would be better than hearing screwdriver in ANY setting .. people would hate him less because he would stop making a mockery of his fans love of him and his own place in music history

i honestly just wish he would STOP .. clearly he does not have 'it' anymore .. and hearing him brag on his newer material like it is better than SOTT or something just makes me wanna hurl

TrevorAyer said:

this is ... ugh

yeah maybe if we were all getting blow jobs while we listened to prince it would improve the experience

here is your answer

prince could put out some GOOD music ..

simple as that

no more bitching

putting it on in the background only improves the music .. listening closely .. especially to the lyrics .. makes it worse

an alternative improving choice ..

prince could stop putting out music (which he thankfully did for a while) and he could stop touring

both of those would be better than hearing screwdriver in ANY setting .. people would hate him less because he would stop making a mockery of his fans love of him and his own place in music history

i honestly just wish he would STOP .. clearly he does not have 'it' anymore .. and hearing him brag on his newer material like it is better than SOTT or something just makes me wanna hurl

If you think he should stop but he won't, then why not take your own advice and just shield yourself from any of his new music? There's no law that says you must remain a fan -- there's always the old stuff and you don't really need to come here to be aware of reissues or discussing the older music.

Yes, both Prince and you can have your way.

Thank you all for your comments. Militant, I'm excited to hear from you that there'll be a tighter practice with clamping down on bad behavior on this website; that'll make a big difference.

No matter how many times we push for intelligent, well-thought through, and respectful dialog, there will be folks who either have a different definition of those words or who just don't hear them. But we can certainly set the standard in our own posts. One or two orgers have also repeatedly pushed others to substantiate blanket statements with examples and deeper insights - this kind of pressure is also a constructive thing.

RodeoSchro, you must have seen a lot in your life! I'd be fascinated to hear more about your perspectives on Prince sometime, given all you've experienced. I agree with your points, which speak to the "let it go" philosophy.

Wouldn't it be nice if we had more opportunities to get together with other fans in person to talk about, and listen to, Prince's music. The in person experience is so refreshing, if you ever get the chance. ** Anyone in the SF Bay Area listening?? **

Doozer said:

Applause for one of the most thoughtful and reasonable posts I have read here in 13 years.

Thank you so much!

Interesting points.

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As for listening to the music I personally don't listen to music (or consume any other artform for that matter) with a "like/dislike" perspective. Being an artist myself I'm more interested in understanding the creative process and I try not to be too judgemental. My perspective is more "what did the artist try to do, in what historical/sociocultural/artistic context, and did they succeed at reaching their purpose?". Even the things I don't like can often be interesting to me, if only for trying to understand why, in my opinion, the artist failed at expressing what they had in mind. I also try not to forget that artists are just human beings trying to do a job. And I always try to keep in mind that my personal tastes and opinion are just that: personal. I'm always puzzled at how some people lose perspective entirely and believe their own opinion to be a universal truth (not only when it comes to music BTW, this also applies to politics, ethical issues and everything else for that matter).

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As for coming on the Org, I try not too miss anything here because of my discography project: it's very often that I randomly find interesting new informations that I wasn't aware of earlier so I have to come here as often as I can. Sometimes I admit that some people get on my nerves and I may be a bit harsh on them, I try not to and I'll keep trying being as polite and as nice as can be, I'm just only human. I don't hold any grudge, though, I don't know anyone here IRL and I know that I can't have a true opinion on people from an internet forum + I'm not sure there's a point in having opinions about people in the absolute, people r what they r, I don't need to have an opinion about them

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As for my own life I'm happy with it

TrevorAyer said:

this is ... ugh

yeah maybe if we were all getting blow jobs while we listened to prince it would improve the experience

here is your answer

prince could put out some GOOD music ..

simple as that

no more bitching

putting it on in the background only improves the music .. listening closely .. especially to the lyrics .. makes it worse

an alternative improving choice ..

prince could stop putting out music (which he thankfully did for a while) and he could stop touring

both of those would be better than hearing screwdriver in ANY setting .. people would hate him less because he would stop making a mockery of his fans love of him and his own place in music history

i honestly just wish he would STOP .. clearly he does not have 'it' anymore .. and hearing him brag on his newer material like it is better than SOTT or something just makes me wanna hurl

As if there was such a thing as "good music".

As if you (or anyone else) was universally qualified to decide what is and what's not good music.

As if could release music that would systematically please EVERYONE on this forum.

As if people would stop bitching if put an end to his career right away.

I personally have enjoyed each and every record he has released since 1995, his music brought a lot of happiness to my life and no one is to tell me what I should like or not, what should make me happy or not. If u don't like it just go listen to some other musicians, there are thousands out there. Wishing someone to stop releasing music just because YOU don't like it is, well... how about "insane"? It's not like puts a gun to your face and forces you to listen to his new music all day long, is it?

If anything, should handle his business with fans better, i.e. not treat them like shit as he did with Crystal Ball or ONA Live being delivered to fans after being in stores or ripping off all of us poor souls who paid 77 bucks in 2009 (even though he kinda made up 4 that by giving us so much for free over the last 3 years) and stop suing fansites and harrassing fanforums. I can understand people feeling disrespected in terms of a business relationship or in terms of unjustified legal harrassment of their blogs or online communities, I can't understand people hating a man for doing music that they don't have to listen to in the first place.

I have a theory about this: many people here actually don't like 's music and never understood it in the first place. They just like an era of his career, a very few albums in the end, and because of their passion for those few albums they believe they are fans of this artist. IDK, I really love Spreengsteen's or Pink Floyd's early albums and everything they did after that leaves me cold. Just because I like some early albums doesn't make me claim I'm a Springsteen or a PF fan, that they owed me to have kept doing what they did on those early albums for the rest of their careers or that anything they did afterwards is crap. I just admit that overall I don't like their music so much but that I'm lucky enough to have a ball listening to a certain part of their careers. I fail to see how someone who just enjoys 8 years of 's career (roughly 80-88) and a few albums here and there ever since, out of a 36 years long career and 60+ albums, can claim they're fans in the first place. Trevor my guess is u don't like 's music, u like a few album by is all, but because u love them so passionately u fail to understand that u don't like 's music in the absolute and that u should have moved on years ago.

Your problem, not 's really, and certainly not ours either. Face your own personal issues, don't force them onto others

Aerogram said:

TrevorAyer said:

this is ... ugh

yeah maybe if we were all getting blow jobs while we listened to prince it would improve the experience

here is your answer

prince could put out some GOOD music ..

simple as that

no more bitching

putting it on in the background only improves the music .. listening closely .. especially to the lyrics .. makes it worse

an alternative improving choice ..

prince could stop putting out music (which he thankfully did for a while) and he could stop touring

both of those would be better than hearing screwdriver in ANY setting .. people would hate him less because he would stop making a mockery of his fans love of him and his own place in music history

i honestly just wish he would STOP .. clearly he does not have 'it' anymore .. and hearing him brag on his newer material like it is better than SOTT or something just makes me wanna hurl

If you think he should stop but he won't, then why not take your own advice and just shield yourself from any of his new music? There's no law that says you must remain a fan -- there's always the old stuff and you don't really need to come here to be aware of reissues or discussing the older music.

Yes, both Prince and you can have your way.

Thank you. Some people act like Prince has a gun to their heads forcing them to listen to everything he does and remain fans. Truth is they can't bear to miss a second of whatever may come next.

excellent post. I can respect the so called "negitive remarks", when they explain why they feel the way they do. I don't have to agree, but I can respect it. This place isn't like NeoGaf, where you just read bitching about a subject, without even having the merit of explaining why they feel that way. I love Prince's music, and his concert showmanship.

I don't care for his religious beliefs, or his constant unorganized way of conducting business. Great thread!

TrevorAyer said:

this is ... ugh

yeah maybe if we were all getting blow jobs while we listened to prince it would improve the experience

here is your answer

prince could put out some GOOD music ..

simple as that

no more bitching

putting it on in the background only improves the music .. listening closely .. especially to the lyrics .. makes it worse

an alternative improving choice ..

prince could stop putting out music (which he thankfully did for a while) and he could stop touring

both of those would be better than hearing screwdriver in ANY setting .. people would hate him less because he would stop making a mockery of his fans love of him and his own place in music history

i honestly just wish he would STOP .. clearly he does not have 'it' anymore .. and hearing him brag on his newer material like it is better than SOTT or something just makes me wanna hurl

The only one who needs to stop is you. What you stated is not rational and leads one to worry about your mental health. You're speaking as if you represent more than just yourself and you don't. Many people are enjoying Prince's current output both on CD and in concert. I want prince to "stop" when he feels the need to stop. This negative obsession you have with prince is truly troubling to behold.

TrevorAyer said:

this is ... ugh

yeah maybe if we were all getting blow jobs while we listened to prince it would improve the experience

here is your answer

prince could put out some GOOD music ..

simple as that

no more bitching

putting it on in the background only improves the music .. listening closely .. especially to the lyrics .. makes it worse

an alternative improving choice ..

prince could stop putting out music (which he thankfully did for a while) and he could stop touring

both of those would be better than hearing screwdriver in ANY setting .. people would hate him less because he would stop making a mockery of his fans love of him and his own place in music history

i honestly just wish he would STOP .. clearly he does not have 'it' anymore .. and hearing him brag on his newer material like it is better than SOTT or something just makes me wanna hurl

If you don't like "Screwdriver" - especially the movie version - then you just don't like rock and roll.

gubbins4ever said:

Thank you all for your comments. Militant, I'm excited to hear from you that there'll be a tighter practice with clamping down on bad behavior on this website; that'll make a big difference.

No matter how many times we push for intelligent, well-thought through, and respectful dialog, there will be folks who either have a different definition of those words or who just don't hear them. But we can certainly set the standard in our own posts. One or two orgers have also repeatedly pushed others to substantiate blanket statements with examples and deeper insights - this kind of pressure is also a constructive thing.

RodeoSchro, you must have seen a lot in your life! I'd be fascinated to hear more about your perspectives on Prince sometime, given all you've experienced. I agree with your points, which speak to the "let it go" philosophy.

Wouldn't it be nice if we had more opportunities to get together with other fans in person to talk about, and listen to, Prince's music. The in person experience is so refreshing, if you ever get the chance. ** Anyone in the SF Bay Area listening?? **

Thanks! There is no doubt Prince has done stuff that didn't work, but who hasn't? I've found that a nicely-worded letter generally gets any problem solved.

So the bottom line for me is as I stated - enjoy what you have, and let Prince release his stuff when he decides to. To me, it always goes back to something Prince said about 25 years ago:

"Don't you like surprises?"

yeah right .. like ANYONE here would refuse to check out music from the guy who wrote all those classic records .. i have no personal problem .. I only speak the truth .. i can come here and speak the truth about prince all i want .. that is what this forum is for .. this is not called letskissprinceass.org ...

we could enjoy being a prince fan if he put out GOOD music again ..

that is an honest and very easy solution to the book the op posted on the issue

I answered the question .. stayed on topic .. i didn't even insult any other posters .. which many of you who responded to me failed to do .. insinuating some kind of personal mental problem just because I offer the only REAL solution to the question posted

ps .. good is NOT subjective .. if a vegetable is rotten it is rotten .. if ur body has cancer it has gone bad .. if prince music gives u diarhea it is bad

screwdriver is NOT a rock n roll song .. it is a boring grating snooze fest with zero life and even less ambition .. prince has never done rock n roll very well anyway .. even bambi is lacking .. he is a new wave genius .. a balladeer writer of standards on par with mccartney in terms of songs that should be standards .. and he can funk u up with right band .. prince version of rock n roll is right up there with his efforts in easy listening ultra lite jazz and that kamasutra record he wrote and recorded in one day while sitting at his casio keyboard .. NPG gold chaos era was the closest prince came to anything with the energy of rock n roll .. the band was tight but the songs were crap

u know what .. i would much rather read people bitch or praise PRINCE than read these endless .. 'people on the org aren't kissing prince ass enough and its really bumming me out' threads

its ok to critique and insult other orgers but prince is off limits i guess ... sounds backwards to me

there really needs to be a 'complain about other prince fans' forum so we don't keep seeing these kinds of threads in the prince section .. this thread is not about prince .. its about telling everybody they have to like the diarhea he puts out these days or shut up ..

Dude, you're telling me that I like diarrhea so I guess you can't use the "I haven't insulted anyone" line any more.

Not that I care. In fact, I think I'll plug in my Tele, stomp on the fuzz box, and rock along with "Screwdriver" a couple times during my lunch break. Thanks for the inspiration, Trevor!

TrevorAyer said:

yeah right .. like ANYONE here would refuse to check out music from the guy who wrote all those classic records .. i have no personal problem .. I only speak the truth .. i can come here and speak the truth about prince all i want .. that is what this forum is for .. this is not called letskissprinceass.org ...

we could enjoy being a prince fan if he put out GOOD music again ..

that is an honest and very easy solution to the book the op posted on the issue

I answered the question .. stayed on topic .. i didn't even insult any other posters .. which many of you who responded to me failed to do .. insinuating some kind of personal mental problem just because I offer the only REAL solution to the question posted

ps .. good is NOT subjective .. if a vegetable is rotten it is rotten .. if ur body has cancer it has gone bad .. if prince music gives u diarhea it is bad

screwdriver is NOT a rock n roll song .. it is a boring grating snooze fest with zero life and even less ambition .. prince has never done rock n roll very well anyway .. even bambi is lacking .. he is a new wave genius .. a balladeer writer of standards on par with mccartney in terms of songs that should be standards .. and he can funk u up with right band .. prince version of rock n roll is right up there with his efforts in easy listening ultra lite jazz and that kamasutra record he wrote and recorded in one day while sitting at his casio keyboard .. NPG gold chaos era was the closest prince came to anything with the energy of rock n roll .. the band was tight but the songs were crap

u know what .. i would much rather read people bitch or praise PRINCE than read these endless .. 'people on the org aren't kissing prince ass enough and its really bumming me out' threads

its ok to critique and insult other orgers but prince is off limits i guess ... sounds backwards to me

there really needs to be a 'complain about other prince fans' forum so we don't keep seeing these kinds of threads in the prince section .. this thread is not about prince .. its about telling everybody they have to like the diarhea he puts out these days or shut up ..

Dude I'm sorry if u felt insulted in any manner by my post. It's just that it's... weird the way u claim that U of all the people in the world r the one person to say what works of art are good or bad in the absolute. Either u're bad faith and u know it and u're just provoking us 4 fun or u believe u're God or something and in that case it's kind of freaking the shit outta me really, or if it's yet something else please let me know (not that u're the only one here but every one claiming that just give me the creeps because this is... madness?).

Of all the debates in human history, objective ways of evaluating works of art is still one of the most open debates. No one has ever been able to find a definitive answer to that question: no critic, no philosopher, no artist, no one. So if u have, dude, u're gonna be famous so better let us all know how u do it and write a book about it right away b4 someone steals ur technique!

I mean there comes a moment when it makes no sense, so just back off and admit that it's just your personal opinion and let's get over this

I'm with Rodeo. Screwdriver is freaking awesome. Most people I know, as in non-fans, dig that song a lot too.

1. I never said you like diarhea .. I said prince music is diarhea

2. If prince current music was GOOD, more than 1 / 10,000th of his fan base would support it.

3. prince fans shouldn't dog other fans for critiquing and discussing prince. I find his bad music very fascinating. I also find his failure interesting too. I like discussing what makes music work and what makes it not work. Impossible to do when fans swear the emperor is wearing clothes all the time. Counter productive to the actual stimulating conversation everyone here craves beyond the never ending "list your favorite albums' threads.

4. I am not god .. we are all god .. we are all one reflection of each other .. freak out if u must data .. as a god I will love u no matter.

5. I am close to dropping 3 cds at once .. thats 3 80 min cds. been working on it for a while .. then u can slag my art all u want .. and if i start dating hos u can even call me out .. its called being real and honest .. i got no prob wit dat yo!

6. at the end of the day I only wish prince would try harder as I know he could .. i find the fans who eat up everything and tell him it is great to be the biggest detriment to his return to form ..

7. I would love to hear people discuss why his new music is so good. Is there a lyric or guitar melody that moves you or you connect to in some special way. I know when I hear the question of u or always in my hair hook, I am moved. When I hear screwdriver ..... nothing .. crickets. lyrically i can't find much to connect to anymore .. there is just nothing there ... I could respect others opinions more if they backed it up with substance .. like why a new songs moves them .. why it is better than his millions of great songs that came before .. why they are not just pale imitations of when he had something real to say .. but it is mostly just fans getting mad that others find his new music HORRIBLE without backing up why they think it is good.

That to me would be a real discussion.

I will will always give props to prince for even some of his recent ideas that were good, and I will always enjoy figuring out why those good ideas ultimately fail and do NOT connect to fans on a larger scale. It fascinates me because I am a musician and I love to understand why he rose and fell .. and I don't believe the hype. PRince is no star child born better than everyone else .. he is talented but there are a lot more factors that create artistic success than just prince. It is a pleasure to unmask the brand and see what makes it all tick or not tick.

ex .. how disappointing is it for everyone that the best song on lotus 'colonized' was a complete rip.

prince should be writing the best song on everyones album including his own .. what happened to THAT guy? I wanna know ...

TrevorAyer said:

1. I never said you like diarhea .. I said prince music is diarhea. But I like most new Prince music. So therefore according to you, don't I like diarrhea? I especially like "Screwdriver".

2. If prince current music was GOOD, more than 1 / 10,000th of his fan base would support it. Fact is, it only matters if it's good to ME. Or, for your purposes it only matters if it's good to YOU. If I like it, I don't care how many other people like it. The only person I can think of that should care if a lot of people like the music is Prince, and the only reason he would care about that would be that he needs the revenue from sales to continue creating and recording music. But I don't think Prince needs that money any more. So now my guess is that even Prince doesn't care much if you like it or not. He only cares that HE likes it - same as you and me.

My take is that if someone is upset that not everyone digs Prince the way they do, then for some reason they need external approval to validate their own likes. In other words, teenagers. I don't think any of us are teenagers any more.

3. prince fans shouldn't dog other fans for critiquing and discussing prince. I find his bad music very fascinating. I also find his failure interesting too. I like discussing what makes music work and what makes it not work. Impossible to do when fans swear the emperor is wearing clothes all the time. Counter productive to the actual stimulating conversation everyone here craves beyond the never ending "list your favorite albums' threads. Agreed. I don't mind actual criticism. But the excrement that comes from Bart's mouth to the effect that "Prince hasn't done anything good since 1989!" is just ridiculous. I can understand where one might say, "I liked 90% of his stuff in the '80's/'90's but now I only like 10% of his stuff". I wouldn't agree with that but at least I can understand where it would come from. But people like Bart, who have personal grudges against Prince and insist on dragging us all into it, are just tiresome. They aren't critics, they are trolls and bullies.

4. I am not god .. we are all god .. we are all one reflection of each other .. freak out if u must data .. as a god I will love u no matter. Love rules!

5. I am close to dropping 3 cds at once .. thats 3 80 min cds. been working on it for a while .. then u can slag my art all u want .. and if i start dating hos u can even call me out .. its called being real and honest .. i got no prob wit dat yo! I am quite confident that most Trevor Ayer fans are going to say, "I like X% of it and I don't like Y%" which is pretty much what most posters say about Prince's music. And remember "Purple and Gold"? LMAO, not even KCOOLMUSIQ defended THAT turkey!

In a way, I guess KCOOL is the anti-Bart. Bart hates everything Prince does; KCOOL loves everything Prince does. However, I can't think of any other KCOOLs on this site but I can sure think of a lot of other Barts (although none of them are as rude or is a bully like Bart).

6. at the end of the day I only wish prince would try harder as I know he could .. i find the fans who eat up everything and tell him it is great to be the biggest detriment to his return to form .. Prince has said many times he's not going to record another "Purple Rain". After 30 years, I'd say it's time to take him at his word. You are an independent artist. Put yourself in Prince's shoes. Would you listen to a fan like Bart that craps on every single thing you do? I'm sure you wouldn't. Would you listen to a fan like KCOOL that says you can never do any wrong? I'm sure you wouldn't. Neither does Prince. He does what he wants, when he wants, and how he wants. Again I say - after 30+ years, we should understand that. If we don't, then it's on us.

7. I would love to hear people discuss why his new music is so good. Is there a lyric or guitar melody that moves you or you connect to in some special way. I know when I hear the question of u or always in my hair hook, I am moved. When I hear screwdriver ..... nothing .. crickets. lyrically i can't find much to connect to anymore .. there is just nothing there ... I could respect others opinions more if they backed it up with substance .. like why a new songs moves them .. why it is better than his millions of great songs that came before .. why they are not just pale imitations of when he had something real to say .. but it is mostly just fans getting mad that others find his new music HORRIBLE without backing up why they think it is good. Fair enough. Here are a few observations on recent stuff:

1. I love "Screwdriver"'s hook, and I love its chord progression. Simple three-chord rock and roll done right. And tell me you wouldn't love singing "I'm your driver, you're my screw!" to a crowd of women! I have, and it's AWESOME.

2. PRETZELBODYLOGIC - Great rock, mediocre lyrics. But I love the rock feel.

3. Ain't Gonna Miss U When Ur Gone - OK, but it's 2:30 longer than it should have been. It can't carry 6 minutes, IMHO.

4. That Girl Thing - AWESOME demo. I don't know if fleshing it out with a band would help it or destroy it, but I sure like the version he released.

5. FixUrLifeUp - Another great rock feel with mediocre lyrics.

6. Rock and Roll Love Affair - I LOVE IT. Phenomenal groove and beat, and exceptional lyrics. I just LOVE singing the chorus, and I LOVE playing the hook.

7. 20Ten album - My take is that this is a real album, and is meant to be played in order from start to finish. Every time I do that, I find myself wildly entertained for 45 minutes. I don't think anyone actually makes an "album" any more but to me, that's EXACTLY what "20Ten" is.

That to me would be a real discussion.

I will will always give props to prince for even some of his recent ideas that were good, and I will always enjoy figuring out why those good ideas ultimately fail and do NOT connect to fans on a larger scale. It fascinates me because I am a musician and I love to understand why he rose and fell .. and I don't believe the hype. PRince is no star child born better than everyone else .. he is talented but there are a lot more factors that create artistic success than just prince. It is a pleasure to unmask the brand and see what makes it all tick or not tick.


For anyone that got as big as Prince, the reality is that a HUGE part of his fan base was people that loved him because he was the flavor of the month. That's just the way it is in popular music, and always has been. IMHO, music has changed, and for the worse, since the '90's. Nirvana killed rock, and rap/hip-hop killed R&B. Prince tried to follow those trends for a little while, and the result was Tony M. He went back to recording pop and rock songs, and finally accepted the fact that those genres just aren't going to sell like they did 30 years ago. But that doesn't mean the music isn't any good. It does, however, mean that with very few exceptions it isn't going to connect with the young song-buuying/downloading generation.

ex .. how disappointing is it for everyone that the best song on lotus 'colonized' was a complete rip.


I think "Wall of Berlin" was the best song on "Lotusflow3r" and I don't think it was a rip of anything.

prince should be writing the best song on everyones album including his own .. what happened to THAT guy? I wanna know ...



He aged. No one from the 80's is writing the same stuff they wrote when they were in their 20's. Not Prince, not Springsteen, not anyone. The best thing to do is be grateful you have the stuff they did when they were young, because no one I can think of has ever been able to replicate their youth.

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[Edited 7/15/14 13:15pm]

[Edited 7/15/14 13:16pm]

Here's my answer.

How I enjoy being a Prince fan, is that I don't allow others' opinions about what's a Prince fan affect me. Look, I haven't cared for anything that Prince has put out since a few songs on the Planet Earth CD. I don't think that makes me any less a Prince fan than someone has loved everything that has the Prince name attached to it. How I can call myself a fan is based on my desire to listen to every new song and either I will like it or I won't. But, instead of ranting and raving about how awful his current sound is, I simply reach into my vault and take a musical journey down memory lane. I mean, even Prince once said, if you want to hear Purple Rain, then go listen to Purple Rain. Not his exact words, but he said it during his last Tavis Smiley interview. If I have learned anything about Prince, is that he changes his style and sound on a regular basis. So, it's not as deep as people want to make it when there's a difference of opinion.

How can we not be consumed by obsessiveness or anger is to remember that we're all human and be adults in how we handle our differences of opinions. It's about respect. There will come times when something is posted and it may be taken out of context. Instead of coming at that person ready for war, simply ask them to explain what they meant. Chances are the response was misunderstood. But, what I find that people tend to do, is reply to the post with an insult of their own against that person and then the back and forth begins. Nothing get resolved and we have yet another internet battle of wits. Or the person that posted the presumed attack post explains themself and the other person won't accept that it was him/her that misunderstood the response and again a needless internet battle. Either way, the vibe of the thread is tainted and it's a shame. So, instead of posting attacks, why not discuss the issue via orgnotes and keep it between the two of you. It just seems to me that "arguing" within threads makes both parties look foolish. I'm guilty of this myself. Agree to disagree and let it die an honorable death.

[Edited 7/15/14 14:09pm]

Militant said:

I'm with Rodeo. Screwdriver is freaking awesome. Most people I know, as in non-fans, dig that song a lot too.

@ Trevor.

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OK I'm the first one to ask for elaboration on people's opinion so it's faire enough.

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Extraloveable: love on first "sight"! It's a sexy, happy and funky electrofunk jam, it makes me horny as hell, everything that I loved in 's music in the first place is there. I like the version with Andy better than the one with the horns for it keeps this mpls osund vibe. I find it waaay superior to the unreleased original, it has a more sophisticated and smoother flow.

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Rock & Roll Love Affair: didn't like it too much at first, then it grew up on me, first I realized it was a homage to Amercian 80's rock FM tracks and I found it was beautifully done, then I came to realize it was really mostly a narrative song, telling a story, and I found it particularly efficient in that regard. I totally love it now, I think I understand what was trying to achieve here and I think he totally succeeded at doing it.

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Bambi 2013: There's a darkness to this version, a really agressive feel to it that makes it my favorite version ever of that song.

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Screwdriver: I loved it from the very beginning. Barebone raw rock and roll track, reminds me a lot of Guitar which is another fave of mine, same energy, a great party song about rock n roll lifestyle, I love to listen to it LOUD and it makes me happy. It was exactly what I needed in my life when released, actually, this "let's be freaks" vibe to it.

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Same Page, Different Book: classic material, I actually like it when he addresses spirituality (contrarely to most people here), the groove is tight with its Nilesrodgersesque rhythm guitar. I kind of consider it as a studio cousin to Chapter & Verse, which was released as a live track at the same time and also has a thin groove and an improvised feeling to it.

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Boyfriend and Breakfast Can Wait: those 2 remind me of the High/Peace/TCI/Slaughterhouse sessions which are among my favorite, it's always kind of a return to his roots when releases minimalist electrofunk jams like that, + they're sexy and I like the premise of Boyfriend's lyrics (the video to BCW is incredibly lame, though).

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That Girl Thang and U Will B: Not specifically songs I'm into in an absolute but I like the vulnerability and lo-fi atmosphere of both, and TGT really reminds me of 's early demos from 76-77, I find it cute that he was able to recreate the exact same feeling his first recordings had after 35 years.

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Live Out Loud: I like Liv's lyrics, to be honest the song came out when I was at the end of a depressive phase and the song lifted me up and God knows I needed that, + it really was a surprise to me, it hardly sounds like a song at all and it's extremely rare that manages not to sound like himself so I really appreciate it when he does. It's both dark and positive, and this capacity to mix both atmospheres is also a constant trademark of 's compositions and I was glad to find it again here.

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Fixurlifeup and Pretzelbodylogic: probably the songs I like the least from last year but still I appreciate their silly, teenage-like, atmosphere and lyrics. reminds me of Californian punk-rock, a genre that I don't really enjoy but everyonce in a while it's good to be silly and I will listen to a few tracks like that

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PlectrumElectrum, octopus Heart and Menstrual Cycle: the first one is a typical Hendrix-like groove that reminds me of the Undertaker album and Habibi, I like it when goes in that direction, he does it well. The last 2 remeinded me of Xpectation (an album I love deeply) but with a rock vibe more than a jazz one and I found it interesting that would revisit his "new directions in music" era with a guitar-oriented sound, I actually wish he would release an album of instrumental rock/jazz improvisations with the girl instead of a garage rock album (if that's what PE is destined to be).

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Ain't Gonna Miss U When U're Gone: This one is SO 1987, really, reminds me of jams such as Sticky Wicked and if it had been Eric instead of the Hornheads and Sheila instead of Lesidi (or Ledisi I never know) could easily have pretended it was an old unreleased cut from the vault. The groove is experimental, weird, unexpected, it's wild, it's at his best and MBN also did something quite unexpected with the horns!

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Da Bourgeoisie: OK, I really don't like this one. Like Cause & Effect or Rich Friends it's a reall miss for me, it doesn't speak to me at all.

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Groovy Potential and Fallinlove2nite: This is doing romantic pop songs, something he's always been extremely good at. I like the vibe of both and even though I'm not so much into Josh' radio-friendly arrangements on FIL2N, the melody, no matter how simple, is gorgeous and the horns and strings are absolutely brilliant, adding to the romantic, bubblegum Parade era-like dimension of the whole.

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The Breakdown: Well, it's a beautiful ballad, I'm not sure about the lyrics but the melody is heartbreaking and it does make me feel sad even if I ain't gonna cry like DeNiro, so it does the job as far as I'm concerned.

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Your Show (on Liv's album): Oh boy do I love that one! The Unexpected is OK but i'm not too sensitive to it because of Liv's powerful vocals (I'm not so much into shouting in soul music even though I know it's a major trend in the genre). But Your Show is wow! Sensual, a really sophisticated melody, great sophisticated horns, feels like it's 4AM and u're coming back from a weird evening, getting home with a new intriguing girl and u gonna speak until down without touching each other even though it's obvious that this'll come later. IDK, it's classic soul to me!

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So well, u wanted to know why I liked the new songs, now u know. I'm sure u will disagree with everything I said but this is MY analysis, MY feelings, MY perception of those tracks and nothing one can say will change my personal experience and relationship with those tracks. Now maybe u can do the same and explain thoroughly why each and everyone of those tracks suck in your own book?