continued from http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=21903

matt said:

really matt? usually when there's nothing left to discuss about a topic, it dies away, as no one has anything left to say. but, of course, there were critical AND TRUE statements about you on there, so of course, we can't have any further debate on it. so what do you do? exactly what you're accused of doing. shutting down threads that criticize your job as moderator. you're quite the class act, aren't you?

matt said:

yeah, you take criticism so well that you lock or delete every thread on the subject, right? and you take criticism so well that when Aaron brought this issue up in June and you couldn't keep up with locking/deleting all the various threads he had to repost to make them seen, you cried to ben that you were getting picked on and he had to shut down the general discussion. yeah, you take criticism like a pro.




actually they did know exactly what was going on because Aaron told them. and those people make a stink would be Dex and TRON. and neither of them thought you were joking. they viewed it as you lashing out in an ineffectual rage a la steve hammer and his "i'm going home and taking my chatroom with me" when people saw him for the joke that he really was. oh poor you, no one appreciates you.



ben? ben is busy. i can tell you that he does not give a shit about this. it is solely your constant complaining that Aaron is picking on you that has gotten his account deleted. Aaron and Ben were cool. Aaron and Ian were cool.




that's not really the kind of comment that a by-the-book moderator such as yourself should be making, is it? awfully antagonistic, don't you think?

i would say aaron has been made an example of..there are plenty of people..and i do mean plenty who violate the rules we agreed to here..particularly the no flaming policy...'civilized' and 'clean' appear to be terms that are used very loosely in the rules as well..
i would name names, but i suppose i'll just begin a 'report to moderator' crusade instead...

I agree with Rio. Well said and tasteful as always. It seems like certain unnamed moderators are becoming vindictive with this. I don't get it.

matt said:

I know you don't like it when Aaron plays "divide and conquer" with the moderators, maybe you shouldn't do it with him and the rest of the Org.

here here!

I liked aaron he was funny and kept people in check(and on their toes)

Sage said:



Which was a childish and inappropriate thing to do....



False. Ben didn't shut down GD until several days after Aaron went berzerk. Although I'm sure Aaron was a major factor in the decision, there was also other stuff going on, such as the Okayplayer "invasion" and its aftermath. Ben's exact words were, "I've had it with the General Discussion bullshit lately."



Maybe you should give Ben a little more credit... he's his own man, and if he didn't think that Aaron deserved to have his account locked (not deleted, BTW), he wouldn't do it.



Maybe Aaron thought so, but Ian and I have had some discussions, and I can assure you that Ian was not cool with Aaron. And come to think of it, wasn't Aaron complaining about Ian not too long ago?



Hey, if you can't take it, don't dish it out in the first place.

Anyway, Sage, I'm going to ask you the same question that I asked Aaron awhile back. He couldn't answer it, but maybe you can. (I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are Aaron's roommate, and not Aaron logging in under his roommate's account.) The question is:

What do you want from me?

I challenge all yall to work out this mess over e-mails and come to some kind of understanding. This just turning into another flame war, and moderators don't look too attractive in flame wars.

Just looking out for your pretty ass, Matt...

AuntEsther said:

amen, auntie esther.

matt said:

as was deleting all criticisms of yourself.



false. it was shut down the next day. as for the "okayplayer invasion" ben did not seem to mind it. in fact, he seemed to find it humorous when orgers went to okayplayer to do it.



Aaron was, indeed. But since that time, Aaron and Ian had come to an agreement. There were occasional conflicts between the two, but things between them had pretty much been settled. In fact, Ian seemed to not even know that Aaron's account had been restricted at first. And Aaron had received orgnotes from both ben and ian that they liked having him around. Then suddenly, whammo. At the time Aaron's account had been de-actived, he hadn't even done anything further to warrant it, after receiving an orgnote from ben explaining the restriction prior to the deactivation.



oh, but matt...what you're doing here is flame-baiting.





to not be such a dick about your job. and i assume that calling one a "dick" is not violating the org rules, as a moderator called Aaron that in another thread.
[This message was edited Sun Sep 15 13:02:47 PDT 2002 by Sage]

I said that Aaron had ACTED like a dick, which is very true. I didn't call him anything. Also, he's no longer a member of this site so no rules have been broken

Man, I'm just saying it like it is. Aaron misbehaved a lot and caused a lot of trouble. His account got canned as a result of that. Not much else to be said about it really.

ian said:

ah, but he is a member of this site. his account is still there. it's only been de-activated. if we want to split hairs...

sage,
are you nep2nes?

Sage said:

Well, I like cake.

AuntEsther said:

...and Ian...

Sage said:

See, this is the type of thing that got Aaron in hot water in the first place. You have no problem with flaming me or spreading lies, but you get upset whenever anyone dares to criticize you or hold you accountable. As I said, you dish it out, but you can't take it.

I'm trying to do the best job I can. But right now it seems that you're just trying to bash me to get revenge, or maybe just for the hell of it. Is it really surprising that I don't react very well to your tactics?

I would lock this thread, since you created it to circumvent the lock I put on the last one, but then you'd probably start crowing about what a Nazi I am and how I can't handle criticism.

I fucking give up.

matt said:

lies? there are no lies. it can be seen time and again what Aaron accuses you of. that you lock/delete posts/threads that are critical of you. proof? that this thread is a continuation of another one, because you single-handedly decided there was nothing left to say about the topic when obviously there's plenty more to discuss. and that it was at least the 3rd or 4th one in a week about it that you locked. are you so vigilant about other types of threads that break the rules? no. because you can't take the criticism, so you lock these.



does it surprise you that Aaron doesn't react very well to your tactics? to stifle conversation about the stifling of conversation that doesn't necessarily make you look good?



which wouldn't be inaccurate. that last part anyway. as far as your political leanings are concerned, i haven't the foggiest.



I have a new signature. Thank you, matt.

WHAT IS ALL THIS DRAMA ABOUT? I was gone for the weekend,someone care to fill me in?

Ok,so now I know what's going on.But I know a better way we can "punish" Aaron.We can lock him in a room for a week and make him listen to ALL of Mariah Carey's CDs
[This message was edited Mon Sep 16 3:45:23 PDT 2002 by DavidEye]

All yall betta WATCH IT, SUCKA!!!

Look, aint anybody looking good in all this on either side of the fence. Yall look stupid, and I know you aint stupid people.

Matt and Ian, you boys need to take a class on de-escalation. Do you know what that is? It is when you take a volatile situation and calm its ass down rather than putting more gas on the fire. It is not proper moderation to take flame bait, and it is not proper moderation to bicker with your users in a public forum and (swivelling head and waving finger here) it is SHO NUFF not any damn kind of PROPER MODERATION to say that one of your users is ACTING LIKE A (*nasty word deleted*), I don't care if he wears a tan turtleneck and has pee comin out his head, it still ain't right!

I know you people are bigger than the namecalling and flame-wars you all are being part of up in here. That's why you moderators and we aint, right? Now dazzle us all with your amazing cool and your grace under pressure. We know you got it. We're waiting, honeybunnys...!

Oh but wait, child, there more:

Aaron/Sage, you need to take some time and reflect, honey. Just calm down. Go outside and take some walks while the weather still nice, child. Let all this foolishness wash off yo cute head. These people ain't out to get you. They have a certain way of doing things. I ain't saying it's a good way or a bad way - it just THEY way. You disagree with how they do things. Too bad for you, they hold the keys and you don't. It don't seem fair, does it? But hey baby...Ain't no thang. Either you get used to how they run they house, contradictions and all, or you build your own house. No "BUT BUT BUT!" about it, unless it's yo fine butt all up in my yard with a lawnmower, honey.

Bottom line from Aunt Esther:

Aaron needs to chill a week and then come back. Mods need to consider a less inflammatory approach of doing what they do. Aaron needs to come back. Mods need to welcome him back and Aaron needs to behave his self. We need to all be happy or else I'm gonna start swingin this here 20 pound purse at all yall big fat fool heads, Praise Glory!

Have mercy?

Aunt Esther,you're incredible!! I like the style of your posts.

By the way...is "Sage" really Aaron in disguise,as somebody said on another thread?

DavidEye said:

Duh!

Aunt Esther...some people are actin' like fish-eyed fools around here...you are correct...
But, I will miss Aaron...he was definitely a force that made the Org interesting...

AuntEsther said:

:WOOT: YOU ARE BRILLIANT!!! :WOOT:

I've been doing some thinking about this situation, and I've had some private discussions with various .org people--some of them other moderators, and some of them not. I'd like to thank those people for their time and thoughts.

First, this thread is now locked. I should have locked it when I first saw it, because it was created to circumvent a lock I put on another thread. I apologize for not standing my ground and acting as a moderator should act.

Second, I'm no longer willing to discuss on the forums the issue of Aaron's account. Sage, if you create another thread about it, we're going to delete it without further ado. I know you feel that "there's plenty more to discuss" on this issue, but at this point we're simply spinning our wheels. The only reason why this discussion continues is that we're repeating the same stuff over and over again. And that's when it's appropriate for a moderator to step in and say, "Enough--let's move on."

A section of our forum rules reads:

Moderators have absolute rights.

prince.org administrators and moderators reserve the right to edit, relocate and/or remove any message, at any time, for any reason. Consider all editing decisions final. If you don't agree with a decision, you may discuss it with the moderator who made the judgement in private, but you aren't 'entitled' to a "hearing" or even a response...

Remember that the prince.org discussion forums are moderated by a group of people who have volunteered to put themselves in the position of making difficult judgement calls. Following these guidelines/rules makes their life easier, and everyone's experience visiting prince.org better.


I don't enjoy being a spoilsport. But as a moderator, I have the responsibility to step in and take action when people's conduct crosses the boundaries that we've established. Please understand that I do this for the benefit of the entire prince.org community. I don't ask people to like me. I simply ask that they follow the rules.

Some people have expressed a concern that we've been treating some members more leniently than others. We hear your concerns. One of the things we're working on is a database where we can keep track of "bad acts" by a particular user--for example, if JoeBlow has received one warning from Ben and two warnings from Ian, I'll be able to access that information if I get a complaint about JoeBlow. We're also discussing possible guidelines re limiting, suspending, and banning accounts, so that we'll be more consistent in imposing sanctions against users.

May the flames of this flame war be extinguished. It's time for us to move on.