Also, when the thread was closed, I believed it was derided as nonsense. Does that mean that other nonsensical posters like BrianFellows and sometimes Pook [ : - ), no harm meant] are in danger of having threads locked. This sets a bad precedent. Might I offer up more offensive, vulgar, and downright obnoxious posters in Shausler's stead.

Yeah Shausler's thread was harmless. He even said something about me and nobody cares about me.
Free Shausler! If Shausler doesnt come back then the terrorist have won!
Peace and Love!

Matt said:

Well, there is a difference between screaming obscenities and posting some nonsensical, but entertaining and harmless, words on a site.
Also, if you're looking to censor TRUE obscenities, or offensive material, you don't need to look far...off the top of my head, I can think of threads about women's breast size...oral/anal sex...and the list goes on and on...IMHO I think you thought this was stupid and wanted to get rid of it...there are far more offensive threads that need your attention. This was not one of those offensive threads. I disagree with your decision and see that Shausler did nothing wrong. You've alienated a nice person.

Whose being cruel 2 shausler??? I don't believe it !!!

Don't you guys remeber that on the previous version of the org we would send in topics and then they would get approved or denied by Matt or Ben and then everyone would respond? Maybe it should go back to that. I know if I were running this site I would get sick and tired of all of the stupid bullshit that gets posted on here every day.

I think it's a shame that this site has been used MOSTLY to post nonsensical, unrelated and plain stupid shit over and over and over again. That's why I hardly evr post here anymore. I used to be active on the old org, but this new version has basically been hijacked by a few people and has been turned into their own personal playground without any respect for the people that started it and spend alot of their time and money to keep it maintained. It's a shame how little Prince is actually discussed on this site.

'Revenge' said on another thread that we don't have any respect for Matt and Ben. I think that is partially true given the actions of some of the people here. One (or many 1,000) example is the note to the left of the screen when you are posting that says: HTML not allowed. Yet people still do it anyway!! As much bandwidth as you people waste I wouldn't be suprised if they have to start charging, put in pop-up ads, or shut down altogether. (Guys, if you need a donation, just let me know.)

Hopefully before long the guys will weigh in and explain their actions and Matt will explain why he did what he did. I wouldn't doubt it if he just snapped when he saw that stupid shit.

P.S. (From the general discussion header):
Posts may be deleted for any reason by the moderators, without explanation (deal with it).
[This message was edited Sun Jun 16 21:41:45 PDT 2002 by doeineffect]

i don't think anyone is trying to turn this into us vs. them except for you, revenge...

people can still love & respect ben and matt without agreeing with the closing of shausler's thread...


..as for okayplayer, i don't think anyone went over there on that particular day to say they didn't like okayplayer.com...only to have a little fun...no need to be pissed..it's water under the bridge, yo...

i'd prolly be offended if i understood anything you just said here...read the tos? wtf?

this is really bullshit...

the thread about prince breaking the sanddollar was nonsense...

the thread about prince making the "handicapped" girl cry was nonsense...

all of the oceana shit was nonsense...

damn near every thread started by the chronic is nonsense...

the pook and ice nine take over the world threads are nonsense...

if people don't like that thread, there are tons of others to choose from...

this whole threads being locked thing is complete bullshit... it's impossible to be offended by shausler... he's just here to have a good time and try to lighten everything up... i would much rather read shausler's rhymes than bullshit like the okayplayer vs org wars...

i don't get this... it really makes me think a lot less of the org..

and in the spirit of shausler:

"va-va-vavoom ta you up your vooomy vooom vooom with no voomsaline"...

revenge said:

yeh...must be the you influence...i gotta find a better conversation...lata..

i just wanted to say that i once got an OrgNote from Schausler and he seems to be a very kind, nice person.

i hope this situation gets resolved soon, and that Schausler doesn't leave the Org...i thought his thread was cute.

Schausler is a Kim Rachel's friend, so he must come back!

I mean kimrachell

As much as I like Shausler ... it was a bullshit thread and needed to be canned. Matt did the right thing in my opinion.

ian said:

Ian.. no disrespect but do you notice that a person named "Revenge", who has openly been baiting for over a week, announced plans to invade the Org, repeatedly attacked the same three people, etc... still has an account?

When some invaded OKP a forthnight ago, most accounts were immediately deleted.

I'm sorry Ben, Matt and Kevin have to deal with negative feedback, but there should be a place for it, especially when some people are allowed to continue posting blatant infractions to the TOS while others get their threads locked or deleted for far less.

They should have deleted Revenge's account days ago.Tolerating his BS while coming down hard on something harmless is SCHIZOPHRENIC! I once had a thread called Bottom Five, that did no worse than name five posters I don't like. Bad idea, yes... but why is it ok for someone to go around with a sig that says three people will pay? What is the difference? Likewise, there's no shortage of threads specifically dedicated to criticizing one person -- again what is the difference?

I mean no disrespect whatsoever. There's a "laissez-faire" approach -- basically Matt, Ben and Kevin say they are not going to pretend they can moderate consistently. They come right out saying that all they do is take care of the worst excesses. However, that is not even what they do. Some small infractions have been met by deletion and locking, while blatant, extreme, stick-out-like-a-sore-thumb cases have been tolerated.

So people are scratching their heads. I hope B-M-K see that this post is meant to be constructive. I did not post in the GD forum on the subject, choosing the make my comments where Ben said he would consider them -- in this forum.
[This message was edited Mon Jun 17 5:08:32 PDT 2002 by Aerogram]

gatorgirl said:

Fair enough.

When the new version of the site launched, I tried to exercise as much restraint as possible, and pretty much focused on stuff like hateful personal attacks and bootleg trafficking. Unfortunately, people took advantange of this and began using the forums to troll and post junk. So I've regretfully decided to step up the moderation a bit, and Schausler's thread had the misfortune of being one of the first that came to my attention.

Poetry is fine, and as I've said before, the followups were generally okay. But "voomyo vooms ta ta toomy voom voom chooms va va fout" is meaningless babble. That post started the thread, and I'll lock or delete an entire thread if the first post is objectionable. The idea is to deter people from starting inappropriate threads.

Some people have asked why I locked Schausler's thread when other, more objectionable stuff has gone unchecked in the past. As I said above, I'm turning up the moderation a notch. I can't monitor every single thread (and thus I'm depending in part upon prince.org members to use the "Report msg to moderator" function), but I'll try to take a more active role in policing the forums. And if that "more objectionable stuff" comes to my attention, I'll take action.

eos23 said:

Don't hold your breath.



The First Amendment is a non-issue here; it only applies to government action. prince.org is a private website, and its owners/moderators are free to moderate as they see fit. Would the First Amendment give me the right to stage a protest march in your backyard, against your will? Of course not.

As I see it, private website moderation is governed by the Golden Rule: those who have the gold make the rules.

If you want an unmoderated forum to discuss Prince, I suggest the Usenet newsgroup alt.music.prince. You can pretty much post whatever you like there, provided that it doesn't break any laws, violate your ISP's terms of service, or attract the attention of the folks who run cancelbots.

jtgillia said:

My position on that is simple: the Internet is not a babysitter, and parents are responsible for monitoring their children's Internet usage. While we're not a porn site or anything like that, there will be content here that isn't suitable for all readers. That's hardly surprising, given that some of Prince's work isn't suitable for all listeners (e.g., "Sister," "Jack U Off," and "Head")!

Now, as for genuinely pornographic or religion-bashing posts, if I see 'em, I'll nuke 'em.



Yup. The "Cat in the Hat" books were two of my favorites.

bboler said:

I apologize for sounding harsh, but prince.org is not a democracy.

SynthiaRose said:

Prince did break the rules, but at least he always had a coherent message. I don't think he ever released a song that said "voomyo vooms ta ta toomy voom voom chooms va va fout." Well, there was "Poom Poom."

This isn't about "artistic differences"--this is about posting nonsensical babble. If someone wants to do it, fine, but not here.




Anything can be ignored. We could simply turn off all moderation and let the site become a wasteland of flames, trolls, etc. Is that what we want? Hey, people could always ignore the junk, right?

matt said:

That might be true, but make sure that the rules you make (and the ways in which you enforce them) don't lose ya yer gold.

Mel Brooks said it best: "It's good to be king". And I'm sure it feels great to control a site that's been such a success for you. Knowing that you can form and shape the direction of this online community has got to be an exciting thing for you.

But check this out, Matt: part of being in control of something is taking responsibility for it. You keep using the analogy of walking down someone's street with a loudspeaker or starting a commotion in someone's backyard as a comparison to people posting nonsense on your private site. I'd buy that analogy, but you see, the difference between my back yard and your website is that you've opened up your privately owned website to public discussion. Sure, that STILL means you can do what you want, but at the same time, WE can decide we're fed up with the way things are run, and go elsewhere, or even start our OWN websites where we can moderate based on what we think are sounder ideals.

And that would suck. You've created a strong community here. I honestly don't think you understand what a success v.2 has become. That's YOUR work, pal. Pretty awesome stuff. Now it's time for you to nourish and maintain the community that's grown from your work. People are meeting each other on this site. They're sharing music they might have never thought they'd ever hear. They're learning about different points of view. They're debating. They're improving the way they convey their ideas. And yes, they're laughing. A lot. I see all this activity on here, all the time, and Matt, it's FUCKING AMAZING.

Don't throw a wrench in it because you have the opportunity to flex a little muscle and show us who the boss is. We all respect what you've created, and an overwhelming majority of us have a deep respect for maintaining some semblence of good behavior.

This site needs its Schauslers and Pooks and Brian Fellows and all the other fools who talk stupid on here, just like Soul Train needs that guy who dances around in a gorilla mask, and just like Funkadelic needs a horn section dressed in diapers. You can't have something funky without a little bit of sickness. And if you're gonna have a Prince website, you gotta give it up to the funk, at least PART of the time.

Maybe before your next round of locking threads, you should talk to some of us - if you don't have the time to read every thread, try to get a feel for who's welcome and who isn't around here. Personally, I think that a little bit of chaos has been a good balance for keeping the Org interesting and exciting. Sometimes the annoying stuff makes the substantial stuff all the more substantial. But that's just my opinion. Listen to these folks, though - there are folks who are LEAGUES more deserving of some kind of punishment than Schausler.

And again - I adore this site, I adore you guys, and I hope to support whatever decisions you make in the moderation of the community you've created.

-Anx

blah blah blah blah...

wow...this discussion is still going on...


and to think, nobody complained when none of the racist and homophobic posts remained...yet, everyone gets their panties in a bunch over shausler's thread...


oye vie!!!


i say, a lil moderation just might be what this place needs...lets just let see how things go and stop crapping about it.

Lets go play in the sunshine...

SkletonKee said:

When posts that should get moderated don't and posts that shouldn't get moderated do, it's a good enough reason to bunch up them panties. Or so some of us think.

You go play. We need some players. I'll join you soon.

Anxiety said:

King? Maybe "janitor" is more appropriate. The thrill of moderation privileges wears off quickly. In any event, if there is a king here, it's Ben, since he owns and designed the site. I'm just one of his elves. Or if he's Batman, I'm Robin. Well, you get the point.



I think this statement proves too much. My responsibilities as moderator include editing/deleting/locking stuff, using the user agreement, my judgment, and Ben to guide me. The whole reason for this "crackdown" is that I felt the need to take some responsibility before the site turns into a wasteland.



That's correct. And if somebody wants to do it, I say, "Go for it." Why should prince.org have a monopoly? Competition is good.



I disagree with that. Sure, there's nothing wrong with a little foolishness, but what's the point of a pattern of nonsense posts? If that type of stuff is acceptable, why even bother having prince.org forums? We could just setup a gateway to alt.music.prince.

Let's remember what the point of these forums is: to discuss Prince. I understand that forums often develop into a community, but I fail to see how "voomyo vooms ta ta toomy voom voom chooms va va fout" helps the prince.org community.



I thought that Parliament had horns, but Funkadelic didn't. Sorry, just a quibble.



With all due respect, I think it's the prince.org staff that ultimately decides who's welcome and who's not. And for the most part, everyone is welcome, provided that they conduct themselves in accordance with the User Agreement.

Please note that I never said Schausler wasn't welcome here--I simply locked his thread.

Matt,

What's still missing from your responses is what constitutes 'the line'?

When thread moderation was brought up a few month(s?) ago, the attitude then was ignore the thread and let the thread drop.

Now you're saying that you're going to enforce a standard. Well, that's great. At this point when the free-for-all has been going strong, don't you think there needs to be a clear statement about what the standard is going to be? Put it up on page one and let folks know there's been a change put into effect and what that change is.

wow matt,

did you get laid off of work or something? to delete space between two sentences (which you claim to be 35 lines, which is a huge overstatement) tells me you might be taking your police stance really serious...


ahhh, to each his/her own...why do I feel like the character/wife in Airplane who's husband drinks the coffee and throws up...When the stewardess is complaining to Leslie Neslon about never marrying and feeling like she is going to die alone..The wife walks up to them, Leslie Nelson asks how she is holding up and the wife responds, "well...at least I have a husband"..which starts the stewardess crying...

Are you having a bad hair day Matt? Feeling blue?...Well, do what you want, "at least I have a husband"...lol... just horsing around...

RoseOfSharon said:

The standard is the User Agreement, the same one we've had ever since prince.org v2.0 launched. The only thing that's changed is that I'm trying to do a better job of enforcing it.

"The line" is fuzzy. It has to be, for two reasons:

1) it's impossible to create bright-line rules that will handle every conceivable situation; and

2) if we only have bright-line rules, people will find ways around them and then complain, "We didn't violate the rules!" when their posts get nuked.

I'll try my best to be consistent, but I can't please everyone. Also, remember that I don't read every single post to the forums. Please, please use the "Report msg to moderator" function when you think it's appropriate.

As for ignoring troll threads and other junk, the problem is that people are not ignoring them. I wish people would, but they're not.

SkletonKee said:

I counted 35 lines. And I snipped them because they served no purpose and were annoying to scroll through.

Okay, Matt - you got me on the Parliament/Funkadelic thing. I'll come clean - I haven't had my coffee yet today and that makes Anxy a very dim bulb. Oopsies...

Having said that, I appreciate your well thought out responses to what I've had to say, and I would like to say that aside from the concerns I'm having over this whole mess, I find the whole discussion interesting and I'm pleased to be able to have a level-headed yet frank go-'round about all this. I'm sure I'll learn something from this, as I hope you and Ben will too.

The fact is, the Org has done anything but become a "wasteland". One of the most impressive things about the community that's growing here is that we've done a better job than most similar sites in ignoring/discouraging those posts/posters with nothing to add to the forums as a whole. Sure, there have been lulls and there have been times when flame wars and other hooliganism have eclipsed the amount of actual valuable discussion that's gone on, but those of us who value the content of the forums at their best seem to be able to direct the flow back to a good place without advocating for any kind of censorship or "moderation". This isn't to say that you don't have a need to make such decisions; however, I would like to modestly suggest that you look before you leap, and target the right dirty-dogs instead of alienating folks by spanking posters who haven't done anything wrong other than spout a line of nonsense that seems to really be sticking to your craw for some unknown reason.

The reason for the value of the "nonsense Orgers" is simple. Sometimes a bit of irreverence breaks tension. Sometimes a silly stupid post can make someone's flame bait peter out, and we can get on with having fun and talking about more relevent/enjoyable things. It's all part of the balance of the community.

I think a lot of us engage here as an ALTERNATIVE to alt.music.prince, mainly because that forum has marked itself as having a certain character that some of us want nothing to do with. The Org is never gonna be AMP. No need to worry there. I think there are a hefty enough handful of us to make sure that doesn't happen, without anyone needing to manipulate what can and can't be said on here. Of course, I can't make you believe that, so you'll do what you feel you have to do.



You're right. But making those decisions without a fair view of who and what you're moderating is tantamount to pissing in a fan. Sure you can do it, but the only thing you've proven is your ability to do it. And you wind up with pee on your clothes. Nobody wants that, really, do they?

I think the best solution here is to reinforce the usage of the different forums on this site. I think it's great that you've channelled all the feedback on this situation to this forum. I think it's great that you bounce certain threads to their appropriate forums. You're right - this is a site to talk about all things Prince, first and foremost. But by creating a general discussion forum, you've given us a chance to talk about our lives beyond that one interest we all share. That was a powerful decision for you guys to make. It's created friendships and it's opened people up to a lot of new ideas about a lot of different things. Maybe you guys don't want to be responsible for that kind of interaction on your site. Maybe the general discussion forum should be removed, and Prince.Org should be more of a down-to-business fan site. It's an option, you know?

Anyway. It sounds like you're pretty resolute in what you feel is necessary, so best of luck in your decisions.

Gross Indecency? Hardly.


Some little thread was locked, why all the fuss? Read the top of the GD page:
RULES: You can discuss any topic that doesn't fit into one of the other forums here. Do not post anything for sale or trade here; such posts will be deleted and your account will be terminated. Be courteous to other members. Posts may be deleted for any reason by the moderators, without explanation (deal with it).