I was wondering how Prince got the 'Camille' voice on tracks like 'If I Was Your Girlfriend', 'Shockadelica', 'Feel U Up' etc. as I think that effect is real cool.

Also how do u create the 'talkbox' effect that the late, great Roger Troutman used on all the Roger/Zapp albums. I also heard Peter Frampton (on The Simpsons ) with his 'talking' guitar and was just wondering how these effects work. I have done some research on the vocoder and the sound is quite different 2 that of a talkbox as the instrument seems like its 'talking'!. If any 1 has any more info on how 2 create that Roger/Zapp sound and also that cool Camille vocal then it would b cool.

Thanx in advance!

thetimefan said:

He changed the "Pitch Shift" in his vocal tracks. That's how.

paisleypark4 said:

I think he recorded the vocals at a lower speed. I don't think he used a pitch shifter.
[This message was edited Mon Mar 29 23:54:30 2004 by erikd]

yeah, I think he speeds up the tape on his voice parts...just heard that somewhere, not sure if it's true, but that's what it sounds like to me...

Ask Jason how he does it, he does a pretty good Camille impression. http://www.soundclick.com...emusic.htm

The camille voice was possible back in the days of analog recorders. You slow down the tape speed, record your voice, and then return the song to it's original speed, which speeds up the vocal part. It's possible to fake it with digital processors, but staying in key is near to impossible for that, because you naturally sing in the key of the song. If you're using a pitch-shifter to bring your voice up, say, 5 steps, then you've got to force yourself to ignore what your BODY wants to sing, and try instead to just listen to what your voice is doing.

If Jason's doing it that way, I'm impressed - but I'm pretty sure he said he's using analog tape machine (unless he's singing an octave deeper than the song).

This same effect can be used in the opposite manner - speed up the song, sing your part, and return the song to it's original speed. OR, as in the line "you want me to slip around in your love seat" in Lovesexy, you adjust the tape speed AS you're singing, so it goes from Barry White to Camille in under 10 seconds.

FRAMPTON/ROGER: The Soleil Talkbox is a small box with a speaker, and a tube that comes out, and goes into your mouth. You then put your mout up to the microphone (the tube is usually rubber-banded to the mic stand, or taped to the mic itself). As you play, you mouth the words.

From what I understand, Roger used both, the vocoder AND the talkbox - tho I doubt he used both at the same time, but hey, what the heck do I know.

It's been discussed several times in this forum - do a search - I know I posted a link to a page that shows you how to make your own talkbox.

Thanx every1, espically Otan. What digital processors would b required 4 the 'Camille' voice, I was listenin' 2 'Shockadelica', 'Feel U Up' etc. 2day and thought how cool the effect is. How is it possible on an analog recorder?, I think this would b the best way 2 do it, how would u slow down the tape speed?. I think the 'Camille' voice is real cool, and I'd like 2 know how 2 create the same effect.

As 4 Roger, I'd like some more info on the talkbox he used, I have researched this b4, but it usually refers 2 the guitar talkbox, ie 'talking' guitar, so how did Roger get those cool effects on all the Roger/Zapp albums?, vocoder effects sound different IMO. I think Roger's talkbox's were custom made so its unlikely that a similar sound can b created.

Thanks again every1!

thetimefan said:

There's usually a control for the tape speed on an analogue tape recorder. You often can choose between a high and low tape speed. So you record the voice at low speed while the rest is recorded at high speed. Listen how a 45rpm camille record sounds on 33rpm.
I think he also often did the same thing with guitars.

As for doing it digitally, there's no way to do it live but it can be recreated by recording it:
You record all your instrumental tracks like you always do, create a mix and then you change the sample rate of the mix so that it sounds lower and slower, for example 2/3 of the original sample rate. This mix is just used as a guide for recording the camille vocals.
Mute the original tracks. You sing along this processed mix. When you're done singing the track, mute the mix and unmute the original tracks. Change the sample rate of the recorded voice so that it is in key with the original tracks for the mix (if you changed the sample rate to 2/3 for the mix, change the sample rate of the recorded voice to 3/2 to get it in key with the original unprocessed tracks).
I hope I'm making any sense here

Erik
[This message was edited Tue Mar 30 23:35:19 2004 by erikd]

erikd said:

Great explanation Erik. I think it'll STILL sound digitally produced, as opposed to the smooth, un-choppy method of slowing down the tape. Most multi-track (cassette) recorders had speed controls - either a switch to change from hi speed to lo speed, or a dial that you can use to vary the speed slightly. (My fostex and yamaha 4-tracks had the switch, my Tascam 688 had the dial).

The talkbox can be used with anything - keyboard, bass, guitar. If you look at Roger's videos, you'll see the tube hanging out of his mouth ("Kalifornia", "Hey Lady"). Now, the secret then, I think, would be to figure out WHICH keyboard sound he was using.

I asked Jason how he does it and this is what he said:

Many thanx 4 the info Otan and VinaBlue!.

Heh he needed a lot fewer words than me in my ramblings to explain the same thing.


Lowering the sample rate is basically the same as slowing down the tape so it'll sound virtually the same. Now there's always the difference between the color of a tape and the lack of character of a digital recording. Whether that's good or bad, I'll leave open for anyone's opinion. My opinion is that if something *sounds* digital, something's wrong but it isn't necessarily just because of the fact that it *is* digital.
[This message was edited Wed Mar 31 23:48:13 2004 by erikd]

Slowing the music down and adding vocals to it is the better way. I've tried digital recordings, using the pitch control effects (keeps your vocal in the right key) on Homestudio2004 (Cakewalk) and recording it real time with the boss VT1, but you can 'hear' it. The best way, I feel, is to record it on an analogue tape machine and speed it up again.