As it's only for practise or recording, not live sound (and it's gotta fit in my microflat) I don't wanna spend more than $600/£400 (cheaper the better though) and the only thing that interests me at the moment are the Marshall AVT's or MG's.

The tone I wanna go for is Hendrix (ala Voodoo Chile, Purple Haze), or Hazel (ala Super Stupid, Red Hot Mama, or ever Smegley Smorganoff kinda skank). Some fantastic BBKing blues tone would be fantastic as well but I know I'm probably asking for at least 3 different amps.

I'll be asking about effects pedals/racks later, but for now I really appreciate any insight into the sort of amp I should get for my needs...hope you can help!!!

MaggotBrain said:

If you're looking for a PRACTICE amp to get those tones, just to practice (and record, I'm assuming) I'd skip the amp entirely. Amp modeling is going in leaps and bounds these days. And to get the Jimi/Eddie tone, you'd have to have a tube amp pumped to about 8. And while that's possible, you'd lose a lot of time answering the door when the police come a knockin.

Go to the music store and check out the amp modellers. The POD is sposed to the the industry leader, but I didn't like the amps I wanted (I was looking for an SRV tone, which, unfortunately, is impossible on a modeller). Narrow down your tone-quest to two or three types of amps and or effects, and ignore ALL the other bells and whistles on the doodad.

For example: DO NOT get sidetracked by the acoustic simulators, or bass emulators, or superjacked metal tones, if you're not REALLY going to be using those. I initially made the mistake of scrutinizing EVERY tone on each amp simulator... "hmm, the Fender Twin is pretty good, but that's no SVT 15" sub woofer cab". With the ones that I use, I really use only two or three actual amp settings. All that other crap is just extra stuff for noodling one day.

That would be my recommendation. With an amp simulator, you can crank the dog until it wails, and your lady next to you in bed won't know that you're flailing away. Well. If you knock her in the head with your guitar a couple times, she might ask you to move it to the dining room. Trust me. It's not pretty.

I use the Zoom ones (MRS 1044 and the pedal version, GFX 707 for live playing now). But really, it's totally up to you. But hell, if you're blowing up to $600 on a purchase, go ahead and get the whole recording studio setup.

Can I pimp the MRS1044 ANY MORE than I already do?

BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO GO WITH AN AMP ANYHOW I've been checking out the Fender Champion 30 lately. It's solid state, but uses some sort of tubification technology that adds a slight compression to simulate a tube. And the newer model has some built in effects like chorus, flange, echo/delay, etc. I play in a band with a guy that uses THAT AMP as his main amp, and the man is AWESOME on guitar. Guitar Amp snobs are ALWAYS slackjawed when he comes walking in with his guitar and a lunchbox-sized, solid-state amp. Plugs it in, and BLAMO. Jaws drop, snobs go running for their tubes.
[This message was edited Wed Oct 8 8:36:36 PDT 2003 by otan]

I have a Zoom GFX-8 that comes with a good ampli simulator, my former guitar sucked, but a friend of mine plugged a mahagony Les Paul copy with a EMG81 on the bridge, the ampli was a small Peavey 158, but the tone was great, fuckign great! So, i recommend u to jsut get an ok ampli and go after digital tech, it's not so bad. Of course a valve good ampli is better, but's it's too expensive and for the money you're willing to pay, i think, your not gonna find the ampli of your dreams, so try to emulate it. :p just tweak it

7salles said:

Again - if you get the tube amp, you're going to end up having to crank it to get that bitchin tone. Those amps that have dual channels with a distortion tube channel - the distortion is fake and doesn't sound the same as a real amp pushing full power through the tubes. THAT is what makes Hendrix, SRV, Clapton, and Eddie (I'm guessing) have that raw, spinal-injury tone... the pain of the tubes burning up from the energy pumping through them.

I DID used to record through a tupe practice amp, miking it in my apartment. I got some decent tones out of it, I guess, but yeah, 2 in the morning and the neighbors would get all uppity.

I suggest the Zoom, also, but Danelectro makes those cool little practice amps that sound pretty good and look pretty fly!

I got a little Digitech RP100 amp modeling pedal for $100 and it does sound very cool - I'd probably rather have the Pod though.

But are you really going to want to play with headphones all the time? As mentioned by otan, the fender solid states with DSP are supposed to be very cool. The Roland Cube 30 just got a good review too. I'm fond of the Peavey tweed Classics - they have tubes, and a master volume so you can't go wrong. I'd go for the fender champ though

Rudy said:

I just sold my Peavey Classic 50 410. That's an example I listed above - the "distorted" channel loses LOTS of tone in exchange for the extra distortion tube... I was shocked when switching from straight to the crunchy one. I ended up sticking with the clean channel and using a Tube Screamer.

I used the crunch channel at a low level to record the screaming solo on Superhot Lady Cop ( www.mp3.com/blindslim ). in the end the tone sounds okay, but it took some studio magic to fatten it up some, and it STILL sounds weak.
[This message was edited Wed Oct 8 12:02:28 PDT 2003 by otan]

Thanks guys, I've been flicking through a guitar mag catalogue and eye-ing your suggestions!

I was originally gonna get a small amp, and blow another 600 dollar equivalent on one of those Boss GT-5's 'cause I couldn't be assed with choosing which pedals to get. That Zoom looks like a great cheap alternative to the Boss though, and I reckon you've sold me on the Fender Champ 30...I'll see if I can play either in any of the shops round here - the Marshalls just appear to have more knobs (inbuilt effects? sacrificing actual speaker quality compared to the Fender?)

If I get a zoom or pod, and a little amp, I'm assuming these zoom/pod things can 'stand-alone' with headphones only if they have amp emulation? The thought of using one of those to record then using it with the Fender Champ for blasting a possible future audience with effects sounds like a cool solution, especially considering how small that Champ 30 actually is!

Just buy a practice amp. You need to hear yourself play and if it has multiple sounds and controls, even better.

I've got a little Marshall practice amp. It cost $65 and was worth every penny.

MaggotBrain said:

Slave is right. Sounds like you're shooting for a mixed purpose amp - practicing and then performing. If that's your want, then the Champion might be the ticket. Don't be sold on names, size or knobs. Go play the stuff and decide. Magazines (like Guitar Player, World, Guitar Buyer, Coveter, Polisher and Looker-at-er) will sell you on something you don't need to continue to pump the guitar industry. Every year the magazines talk about the new wave of awesome! stuff! that's way! awesomer! than that crap from last year. And Marshall! Fender! Marshall!

Two choices: Go buy the setup your idol had and ignore the new toys, or go buy something that YOU like the way it sounds. I used to subscribe to two guitar mags and finally discovered I way paying $19 a year for nonstop ads... the Product Review? It's an ad. The guitar player interview? It's an ad for their new line of guitar products or their new album... I got sick of feeling like I just wasn't keeping up with the Way! Coolest! Doodad!

I WILL tell you this. A lot of the digital-modeling AMPS (Line 6, frinstance) don't have the balls to hold on in a live scenario. I was SOLD on the get an amp that sounds like 20 amps! until I realized the digitization process muddies up the signal to the point that you can't cut through the bass, drums, and screaming teens... I don't know why, but I played 4 different ones (digital modeler amps) before settling for the Fender Deluxe instead; THAT is A man's amp!

otan said:

I was tempted with that Yamaha "automatic knob turning" (DG?) effects amp but just knew springs would start flying out eventually. Years ago an electronics guru mate once advised me to get a personal tape player without radio, cause all the technological effort would be applied into spinning a tape round just fine and getting good sound out of it...also, more functions, more chance of springs flying. The likes of the Yamaha knobs amp and the Spiders brings that philosophy to mind.




Still, wisdom aside if I had the dough, I'd be getting a Marshall ModeFour, 'cause if I squinted my eyes I'm sure I'd see a real sexy woman.

I'm very happy with my little Laney LC15R, it's all valve and cost me £189 new. With a Strat it's pretty good for those classic tones you're after.

Hey - one last thing. When you go play live, as I KNOW you will soon, you can MIC your amp and play through the P.A, so again, don't be sold by companies selling 400 gigawatt stacks to reach the people back in the third balcony.

Here's a photo of me playing with Andrew Black. His amp is that little thing behind my feet.

photo
[This message was edited Fri Oct 10 11:07:29 PDT 2003 by otan]

otan said:

WOWA! The guy on the right either just coughed up a peanut, or he's doing that 'cover-yer face' thing when the athmosphere gets too funky and you don't want noone seeing your scrunchy JB face!

Yeah I've noticed the amp>mic>PA thing a number of times in various gigs!

As far as playing live goes...you may have gathered I'm living in France, well three reasons I moved away from the center of London - get some alternative language/culture, and set up my first ever band! Oh yeah, the third is work

I have two years to a) write some good enough songs! ii) recruit a band who are willing to lay down their soul for the funk! and 3) get good enough to be able to jam in the national one day music festival of 2005! Yeah yeah I have to learn French, and yeah I wanna do well at my job. Hey I just wanna get a new amp first, and forget my dream for a bit - I get looks of dissappointment from various potential funkateers here when I tell 'em I'm in the process of getting equipment! Actually, I'v gotten the same looks when I tell them I aint got a car...b***s!

So the "will soon" malarky aint quite accurate...But I have a target at least! Hence all my dumb questions and my futile learning curve :box: well I can play guitar at least (no where as great as you though dude!) and I KNOW what IS funky, and what's not! And I have no qualms about jamming in the nude.

HAH!

The guy covering his face is "Lobster" Smith or some freaky name like that. He plays harmonica, but he's apparently taken aback by my awesome second chin.

Hey MB - I just put up two songs that I recorded, miking the tiny Fender Bronco amp in my apartment

Both songs are 5 years old, so, you know, don't expect an anthematic crackered funkstomp. I was more into Soundgarden and PJ Harvey back then.

http://www.soundclick.com...dmusic.htm
Love Sounds... ignore the hideous singing... just focus on the guitars. They're doable, but you can definitely hear the tinyness of them. (TINYness, not TINNY-ness, tho, they're quite Tinny too.)

Don't want these memories

The guitars on both of these were done in my bedroom, with the amp sitting on a dresser in the corner of the room. The amp is the size of a lunchbox, and I do believe you can tell.

otan said:

hey these songs are great! it's funny you seem to be feeling these quite a lot considering how different they are from your funky vibe


I just checked out the Bronco amp...the knobs go all the way up to 12!!! Biiitchin'!

The guitar sounds wicked enough for a 15w (?!) box. My ears aren't that well versed so the tinyness is beyond me..I guess the more effects used then the wattage is more noticeable? Actually that's something I gotta consider...Ive only ever played with a crybaby wah and distortion pedals before on a REALLY CRAP 15w amp - (the make of which I can't even remember), but now I don't wanna get an amp that limits 'effect-effectivity'...especially if I wanna get a GT-6 or something similar. Is that a problem with small wattage amps or am I just making that up?...I'm just assuming...

Honestly, it's all how you hear it.

A friend of mine is so blindly well read and well versed on wattage/speaker size/pickup power/cable thickness/batter life/finger pressure and how all that stuff affects the tone, and when he plays, no matter what amp, guitar, plug, effect or drink, he ALWAYS sounds the same. The guy has swapped out 10 different amps while we played in a band together, and it's hilarious because I NEVER noticed a change in his tone. Ever.

So in the end, it's your fingers and what you do. Those recordings were straight into the amp and using it's transistorized drive.

By "tinnyness", I mean you can hear where it's NOT a large amp cranked to 8 and blasting the paint off the walls. Again - I was into pure tone back then (ha) no effects, just guitar and amp. Oh. And the gain channel ON the amp. It's a good little practice amp and all that, but there's NO bottom on it. By bottom, I mean, when you play along with records, no matter how low the stereo versus how loud your amp, your guitar ALWAYS sounds tiny and am-radio-ish.

When I play, I am happiest when it sounds like the guitar is coming through a 4-inch steel-plated amp that's been built into a recessed concrete wall... so solid and powerful and all that crap... and a practice amp made out of particle board and a 10-inch speaker just won't provide that. BUT there's eq and chorus to fatten it out a bit, and delays to add umph.

All this is to say, go to the guitar store, find out if they have one of those "amp rooms" (Guitar Center here has one) and take the practice amps in there. Turn them up, play them one by one. Take your time. Sure, you're not buying the top-shelf les paul, but it's your money and nobody is going to get mad that you're being picky. It all comes down to what YOU hear... ignore the solid state/tube debate. (hey hey poet and didn't know it) Ignore the speaker size and number of speakers (1-15? 2-12s? 4-10s?) just play the thing.

Lastly, buy a pre-80's Fender Tube amp, or else you're ignorant and slow and know nothing.

otan said:

I would, if I could ($), but I can't...


...so I shan't!

hey thanks Otan you've given me great advise here man! I'll be trying some out in a few weeks (have to go to london, better shops there) so I'll let ya know (hear?) how it the purchasing goes.

What amp do u guys regularly use?

I used a champ back in the day...but now I use a Super Reverb (post CBS). I replaced the speakers with some Mojo's. I really like the shimmering Vibrato it has...deceptively loud too. Breaks up nice when you get up around 7-8.

neronava said:

72 Fender Deluxe Reverb. Not a reissue. The rizzeal dizzneal.

I used to have a Super, but the damn thing is too loud, I had to ride around 2, so I was never able to crank it and get the TONE. The deluxe reverb is just 1 12" so I can pull it up to 8 and have the shimmer and fender reverb and everything else I wanted without crippling the audience.