I've been studying modes recently using a book called Fretboard Logic, and there's one thing I don't understand...

Say, for example, you're playing in the key of C, there is no difference between playing D Dorian than E Phrygian or F Lydian. They are all basically equivalent to eachother.

If this is the case then how can people say "oh, he's playing in Dorian" when it could be any one of the other modes?

I hear people talk about how Locrian isn't a commonly used mode, but I don't really understand what serperates one mode from another when they're all equivalent to eachother somehow.

Can anyone clear things up for me?

MattyJam said:

well it's just the use of major scales but not in the same place of the neck
[Edited 11/2/07 17:50pm]

RipPoPtheregoMYTOP said:

Can you elaborate on that at all?

How can people say Locrian isn't commonly used when B Locrian in the key of C is the same as D Dorian?

Whilst i am no expert. I do understand what you mean. However, what determines the mode you play in is determined by the 'flavour' which is created by the soloist or line being played. Whilst playing the key of c starting on D and ending on D contains the same notes as the scale of c its sound (the relation of each note to the next is different).

for instance, in the key of c - the distance between the 2nd and 3rd note of the key (d and e) is a whole step/whole tone. However, if you start on the D at the beggining of your scale then the distance between the 2nd and 3rd note becomes a half step/half tone. And it is these small differences which colour the music differently.

try it. Play a dminor chord on the left hand (if playing a piano) and in the right play the d mode (im not as clever as u regarding the fancy latin names). then try it playing a chord under it from the c scale. you will here the difference in the atmosphere it creates.

also, i think that the mode is determined by what chord is being played under it. for instance, if you start your song on the chord e minor. Well, thats the begining of the 3rd mode of cmajor scale so it kinda sets the theme of the sound if you understand. So starting on c when u solo kinda doesnt make sense or, at least, it doest seem to fit with the starting chord (which is the 3rd degree of the scale). it would make sense to flow solo in the e mode.

you can change mode with every chord, in the song progression. you can change modes on the same chord. some will work, some will not. i guess its just a case of feeling them out and seeing what works.

hope that is of some help.

As PRNelson said, the note you end a phrase on... and the note you begin a phrase on... makes a huge psychological difference...

yes, C Ionian, and D Dorian are the same set of notes... but there's a "psychological" effect that takes place when you start and end phrases on the D instead of the C (they sound like a different scale)...

try it if you have an instrument handy... then try starting and ending with all the different notes in the C Major scale.

you might find this interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/wa...WHKeC4IEgA

see how he returns to a particular root note when playing (he centers around that note)? If you're playing the notes of the "C Major" scale and center your phrasing around the D... that will sound Dorian... If you center around the F... it will sound Lydian etc...
[Edited 11/4/07 6:39am]

Wanted to just add... I think it's better to learn the other mdoes as separate scales in and of themselves... ie, when you want to play D Dorian... don't think C Ionian but starting and ending on D... But you think immediately D Dorian... independently...

Put simply, the difference in the modes is the interval relationships of the notes to the root your are playing. With the third note of each mode, being a major third or a minor third, determining whether the mode is major or minor.

A really good way of practicing modes is to have the root of the mode drone while you play it. You can use a looper, software like band in a box, record it on cassette or have a friend play it.

For example, have a D note droning while you play D Dorian (D E F G A B C D). While doing this, make sure that you start and end on a D note to hear the tonality of the mode (minor).

Once you have the sound in your ear, play the triad or 7th chord built on the root note (Dm or Dm7 in the case of dorian) as a backing while you hit the root, flat third, fifth and flat seventh of the mode to really bring out the tonal character.

After some time practicing this way, create chord progression from a mode. In D Dorian, a cool I IV V/V7 would be Dm7-G7-Dm7-Am7-Dm7-G7-A-A7. Make sure you bring out the character of the mode when you play...don't make it sound like you're playing C major over this progression. Emphasis the D F and A notes.

Bottom line, get it under your fingers and then get it in your ear. Practice and then make some music with it.

littlerockjams said:

How do you know whether a note is major third or minor third?

Re: how to tell if a note is a major third or minor third....

For a guitar player, start with whatever root you are using. A minor third would be 3 frets up (1 1/2 steps) from that note. (ex. D root - D# E F ... F=minor third) Think about your minor pentatonic scale ... You play the first note with your index finger and the next note with your pinky 3 frets up. That second note is a minor third from the root played by your first finger.

For a major third, go up 4 frets (2 steps). In C, that would be C root - C#-D-D#-E ... E= major third).

Check out my blog at blog.littlerockjams.com ... it has a lot of information on playing guitar and making music.

littlerockjams said:

Thanks. I will do. You're a useful guy to know!