How cool.

You are cool.

What else can I add to this conversation?

Record yourself (even with a cheap tape recorder) and play over it with these new skills.

So improvise over a recording of me improvising?

heartbeatocean said:

No, play a chord progression in a low key and then play a minor/major pentatonic in a relative higher key.

To answer your other question, I learned to improvise by not knowing the real way and not being taught but teaching myself. I've been in school for the last year trying to learn "the right way" but I was happier the other way. I have to make my mind up before the fall semester.

Slave2daGroove said:

What the difference between the "wrong" way and the "right" way?

I don't mean to just blab on about myself... How did other people learn to improvise? Please share.

heartbeatocean said:

So when I played violin I remember sometimes playing more than one note at a time (then again, I was eight) but 3 notes at once is a chord. right?

I could've substituted "right" with a "proper" way of going to school and learning theory and practicing scales with a metronome with tests and such for grades. Earning a degree to actually build some kind credibility in the professional world or at least an income to survive on. Unfortunatley, it seems most people with music degrees teach it and I'll teach when I'm old enough to actually know shit

I could have substituted "wrong way" with "long way" but I meant the opposite of everything I mentioned above. Trying to work it into your life by teaching yourself and taking classes/reading about music while having an income in another field.
[Edited 6/15/06 20:31pm]

heartbeatocean said:

All-righty, ma'am! Here was my journey to improvisation:

First, I had to make up my mind that I really wanted to do this. Music is very spiritual for me, as well as creative, and I had to truly decide that I would go ahead and jump in the deep end and get out of my own way. Especially since I've got friends like Regina Carter (and others), which can intimidate the hell out of any beginning improvisating violinist!

Next, I started listening to jazz. I mean REALLY listening. I've listened to and enjoyed jazz all my life, but this time I began listening differently. I also listened to other music where improvisation is featured (like our dear Prince and others) in many different genres.

Next, I started learning some tunes I liked. Bought me a Real Book. Also bought two of the Jamey Aebersold books (the first one and the "Nothin'But Blues" books were very helpful) mainly because they come with CD's and you can try your hand at improvisation with the backgrounds that are provided.

Next, I started to study. I bought "Patterns for Jazz" by Jerry Coker, which helped me stop READING every note (ah, our classical training!) and just playing more by ear. I take occasional private lessons with Diane Monroe (www.monroesbow.com) and will be taking some with John Blake Jr. (www.johnblakejr.com). John has a great method book for beginning violin improvisation. I took two jazz theory classes (a good one and a better one). I went to Mark O'Connor's string conference in San Diego. It's good to sit down with other jazz instrumentalists, too, not just violinists (although not everyone can teach--I've had people explain things to me not too succesfully).


And finally, I started to PLAY LIVE! I joined a few bands, played at some jazz jam sessions and finally started my own band.

I'm still learning, girl. My ear is much better, and I'm good with bow rhythms, but I still have problems playing through the chord changes. But the journey continues. . .There's no right or wrong way to do this thing--just figure out what fits for you. That's my story. Who's next?

By the way, you asked what chord progressions are. In violin speak: When you play a song and piano or guitar accompanies you, they are playing chord progressions. It's just a set of chords that make up a song--for the most part.
[Edited 6/15/06 21:17pm]

I don't mean to just blab on about myself... How did other people learn to improvise? Please share.

NuPwr319 said:

Wow, THANK YOU. This gives me a road map. Coming from my training, improvisation has been such a cloudy mystery to me my whole life.

So I think I've made the most important step you speak of, which is DECIDING I want to do this and making a commitment toward it despite how foggy and unknown it feels. (and yet enticing and exciting)

Playing across chord changes sounds really tricky. Do you mean key changes? I'm playing against chord changes now (I think) on my fiddle jam CD, but it's all within the same scale. I'll really have to work to memorize different scale fingerings and play them on the fly.

I have almost gotten to the REALLY listening part, sensing that's what I've got to do next. I'm still trying to figure out what kind of music I want to play. I don't know much about jazz, and am not necessarily drawn towards it (though I could get into it, I think). My biggest attraction now seems to be toward gypsy music, so I'm going to follow that trail first.

heartbeatocean said:

You're very welcome! Yes, playing across chord changes is tricky. It's *kinda* related to playing across key changes. Sometimes the chords are in the same key and sometimes not.

Even if you're not into jazz, you should listen to *some* of it. Even if it's only one or two of Regina's CDs. She's studied and plays in so many different styles (Middle Eastern, various Latin and African styles). . .you're bound to get some ideas listening to her solos. Gypsy music is GREAT to listen to! Definitely do what you're drawn to. Besides listening--maybe read a bit, too. Learn some of the history of the music you're drawn to. Read a few autobiographies. I always like to get into the head of an artist, so I've read quite a few of these and found it very helpful.

NuPwr319 said:

Well, I have heard Regina play live and loved it. Are there any autobiographies that you suggest?

I love this discussion. Let's keep talking as we progress onward and upward...

heartbeatocean said:

Good weed.

okey-dokey

yesterday I improvised against the funk-rock track and really excelled with that one. Well, of course, that's because I listen the most to that kind of music and genuinely enjoy it and can work with the sound much easier -- so now I can see how listening to music really really helps. And liking the music you play.

So much different than classical.

Whoo-hoo! Funk-Rock! You GO!!

Well, now, I know you're a bit disillusioned right now with Bach, Beethoven and the Boys (that' a book title, by the way), but listening to music and liking the music you play is important in ANY type of music you create. I've found that improvisation has actually made me a little bit better classical player! I'm throwing in "classical improv" whenever I play in a string quartet (although, I'm actually playing less classical--except when I work with my students and the occasional gig here and there. No more weddings for me, though--did that gig for 20 some years and I'm SO done with it But I digress).

I'll always enjoy listening to ANYTHING by Bach, and my favorite violin concertos, and string quartets from all eras.

Hey, have you checked out Turtle Island String Quartet or the Kronos String Quartet? I think you'll get some inspiration from listening to how they meld their classical training with all KINDS of stuff.

I don't mean to just blab on about myself... How did other people learn to improvise? Please share.