At what point does a writer need to be produced by other people? After he/she writes 500 songs or more? 100 songs or less? What I am getting at is, sometimes when I listen to other peoples music I wonder if a person's style is getting in the way of them reaching a higher level. At some point a writer develops a "style". After digging a person's style for a while, I think it would do us good to get some fresh ears on our projects. What do you think?

I was going to write some long essay about my own experience but changed my mind.

I think the introduction of a Producer to your music isn't entirely necessary until you're ready to go HUGE with it - like more than 10,000 copies - maybe more than 100,000 copies. Why? The expense and your own experience.

Producers - GOOD producers - producers who actually drastically improve your original music - cost lots of money. Amateur producers are no different than you and me - we've been recording our own songs for 20 years now - we know what we want out of our music, we have a sound we're looking for... bringing in another amateur won't really change your music all that much.

Bringing in a pro, that'll hear your songs and then say "you need more cowbell" (HAHAHA) or sax, or violins, or a different chorus - THOSE guys require two things - lots of money (not only for them, but to bring about the changes they're suggesting) and lots of trust from you, that their ideas are the right ideas.

So then, why would you want to spend up to $10,000 on a real producer, when you're only going to spend $5,000 on your project at this level? Now, when you've got $100,000 to throw around, a producer - a big name producer with hits under their belt - then it's worth it.

And so I think that's why big labels always bring in a big producer... that additional expense is minor compared to all the money you're spending on your record. But me - I'd STILL argue to produce my own music, or at least be able to name my own producer. Which the label probably wouldn't grant, so, there you are.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong.

[ EDIT ]

In re-reading your question - the producer part is only a tiny part of your question - you're asking about seeking outside opinions/input on your songs? That's why we're here. But go find musicians/writers in your area that write the kind of songs you like, the kind of songs you want to write, and ask THEM for input/opinions on the songs. It sounds like you're looking to push your compositions to a more refined level - while a producer can do that, so can any other songwriter. Send your discs to some DJs, not for airplay, but for input and opinions.
[Edited 10/20/05 5:58am]

I'd like to get other people (in here) to remix, add vox to, or play on my songs. I'm just waiting for volunteers!

not really Beau. I was thinking this as I was listening to "other" peoples music. I was thinking how after a person writes a set amount of songs that they begin to sound so similar that it can be called that persons style or monotony. at some point after you write a bagillion songs "the writer" may need a different ear to bring out a different viewpoint to a song and take it to another place. I think that is why Prince surrounds himself with different musicians from time to time to bring another variable to what he writes.

I see what you are saying. Sometimes I wonder if it's the limited gear we have. But ... maybe the way we should approach the gear we do have? Using the same recording techniques can get monotonous. Yep. It's not like the Beatles and Jimi had super advanced gear like we have today. They just explored all kinds of directions through a series of processes with what was available. Why use panning when you can run around the room? Or have the mic suspended from the ceiling and have it swing around, putting a mic in a tin bucket for example. Using guitar effects on the vocals and keyboards, etc. You can go on and on, I guess it's just stepping out of a box.

I think it is more about seeing what or where an artist is going with a song and beautifying it somehow. Like sharpening the knife or shining the silver. Almost like removing an artist bad tendencies and keeping all of the good tendencies without destroying their overall vibe. Some people have great songs but sometimes their style is too monotonous/predictable that it subtracts from the song.

hi tal .. interesting .

'real music real musicians'
http://www.pbphonehome.com/real.html

- perhaps you've already seen .



everyone has their own unique soul/music signature
i think its good to come from that place nearly every time i record ..
there's something 'true' about being the one thing that makes you uniquely you ..

magic can happen there.

its about removing veils - when i record i'm aware of 'the vibe' of a song :
moving energy around can be a powerful thing -- not always .. depends on your intent . - why do you do what you do .

i do it cuz its fun - its easy - but i'm too tired to be a perfectionist

all the single-mothers in the house sing hey yo ..

Talk 2 me....




J-

talmuzic said:

I realized after listening to Prince that it's less about How you write but probably more about how you arrange. I'm sure the methods he uses to write songs hasn't changed drastically over the years, but the sounds he uses and the instruments he chooses affect the sound more than the actual writing. Try experimenting with different instruments, different patches, different riffs, after you have the song written and it'll definitely change your sound. Remember a good song is a good song no matter what, but you can take a fair to decent song and jazz it up with a good arrangement.

word.