Recording Artists Need To Organise And Become Businesswise

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Since this thread didn't find a lot of interest in the Prince music forum I figured it might here in the Org artists forum. In response to Prince's comments on "staying out" of the music industry I wrote an opinion on one of the things I think is really needed for a true change in the music recording industry.

Judging by his latest comments, Prince seems to be saying to young aspiring artists out there that the best thing they can do is to: "stay out of the system". Perhabs he is being misinterpreted, or perhabs Prince knows a secret way how recording artists can become publicy known and make a living all on their own. Whatever it may be, these are comments that draw sure fire reactions, from many different people, but probably especially from aspiring recording artists.

I personally disagree with Prince's opinion and wonder if he thought back to the 70's when he was trying to get himself signed before he expressed it. What motivated him back then (and now still), is probably the same as what motivates most other aspiring recording artists out there.

Realistically speaking, for most artists it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to become ánd publicly known ánd make enough money for a decent living, all on your own. Prince found that out in the late 70's and every other artist would confirm that. You can't it do all by yourself. Prince isn't doing it all by himself either. Unlike what he may think himself he is part of the system and has got people working for him. He has got his own companies and lawyers. Lucky for him; he can afford that.

But most other artists, especially the young aspiring ones, can't. They too want to make an album, do a tour and be seen on the MTV, just like Prince once wanted (and in a different way perhabs still wants). So when the aspiring artists get a recording contract offer, most of them see that as their chance to 'make their dreams come true'. When you blow it, you might not get another one.

This situation:

Artists with no money and no support looking for a record deal (plus the possibly inherent money and fame) versus Big greedy companies looking to own/control/exploit the work of the artists and the artists themselves as much as possible

is what I think Prince is probably referring to.

But advising people to then just "stay out" of it is a) easier said than done and b) not the best way for recording artists to have their interests protected and their dreams come true. Because it is very well possible that talented recording artists following Prince's advice, end up unhappy when they never got the publicity, the recognition of their work and the money they were looking for, because they will later realise that they did not do everything they could have done to make their dreams come true.

In the end that's what it is all about: protection of interests and dreams/aspirations, be that artistic, financial, spiritual or other interests and aspirations. Staing out of the system probably won't make many aspiring artists dreams come true. There must be a better way then 'simply' staying out of the system.

The answer I think can be found by looking at the history of recording artists:

Up untill this day recording artists all over the world are one the worst organised and busineswise artists around. There are hardly any real unions or other organisations protecting their interests for recording artists of all types and genres, espceially not the pop music recording artists. There are also no effective lobbies vigurously protecting their interests. The only effective lobbies in the recording industry are done by the record and music publishing companies, exploiting the work of the artists.

These companies think about money first. And they are very powerful compared to an individual artist simply 'trying to make it'. Do you want to sue them? Beware: they could destroy your future carreer. Other artists, like writers of novels for example, have proven that it is true - the only thing that will be able to sufficiently protect recording artists is recording artists themselves organising and becoming businesswise.

Because when you are organised you can make a fist, when you are organised you have more power than on your own. When you are organised you can educate eachother. When you are organised you can prevent the same mistakes that have been made by recording artists over and over during the history of recorded music. This way true change of the system can be made.

When you are businesswise there is no contract a company can offer you without you truly understanding what it actually says and willential for you. When you are busineswise you can make more money, because you know how and where to make it best. When you are busineswise you become more powerful because you will be able to say no to the bad deals and yes to the good ones leading towards succes in business.

When recording artists become organised and busineswise they will have the power to change the system from within. Since this has never been seriously tried before by recording artists this option should not be overlooked, before legends like Prince for example start calling all aspring artists to "stay out of the system". They won't and Prince knows it, for the simple reason that artists want a public and need to make money just like everybody else.

I feel Prince and/or other established "superstars" ought to take the challenge and become the first recording artist out there to start building a true - all recording artists encompassing - union, that will finally be able to raise the much needed fist against the companies and that will be a safe haven for recording artists for all the information and help they need in succeeding with their profession.

22 views and no recording artists?

This is a great article that brings up lots of good points. Toooo many to comment on for now because I'm at work. But really, Prince is playing the game right now... he usually doesn't. I just figures he's milking the 20th Anniversary of Purple Rain for all it's worth and I don't blame him. He's gonna go back to his normal self once he makes enough money off of this period of time.

A related link: http://www.unitedmusician...index.html

And a little something from back when Courtney Love had half a brain: http://www.mindspring.com...racy2.html


[Edited 9/27/04 10:09am]

i suppose where Prince's coming from is 30 years of battling the giant companies, and he's done better than most."Sex, Drugs & rock'n'Roll" doesn't sound as cool with 'Businesswise' tagged onto it ;and unfortunately Artist's whose souls are held with creating music are easy pray 4 'Businesswise' record companies.Let's hope that future Artist's can get a better deal, once they've gotten their foot in the door, they will hopefully be ready to go for a fairer deal. So for Prince to say stay out of the business is a bit nihlistic.The whole nature of the beast is to 'play' with the companies,coz without musicians there's no product and no profit!

2 examples of the process in progress:

www.newfunkorder.com
www.newfunk.us

Peace,
JD

Now that's cool, brave ánd smart, but what do they really mean with "united musicians" and what are the member benefits? What can this organisation really do?

I mean, for instance: how many musicans are member of 'UM'? And how does UM plans to really change things when there are still hundreds if not thousands of musicans who would sign away their rights in a heartbeat when offered a deal with a multinational?

Abrazo said:

Well, see that's the thing. There will ALWAYS be "artists" and "musicians" who need lots of help and just want to be famous. They are easily taken advantage of by the "music" industry machine. I don't think that will ever end. There is just a severe imbalance nowadays with too much emphasis on the fast buck. Too much of, "Oh, you want to be famous? Well, you look good, but you can't sing, but hey, you can shake that ass pretty good and we can take care of all the rest." So these are truly "recording artists" where the real artistry lies in the hands of the producers, songwriters and engineers... and that magical pitch correction button in the studio.

Major labels used to sign talent, now they sign a marketable look. So, I guess now people have to go independent and start their own label, do their own promotion, sell cds online and at shows, etc. Either way it's hard work. You might as well do it yourself, or at least on a small enough level so that you can keep your eye on things.

The only word P left out was 'current'. STAY OUT OF THE CURRENT SYSTEM. Anyone that knows P and anyone that understands the 'current' situation within the recording indsutry, at least with the majors - KNOWS. It's hard enoughh for the established acts to stay on top of them, never mind the uneducated 'business-wise' Artist.

U wanna make a CD....U wanna Tour....U wanna sell CD's....U wanna make some $????? Ain't nuphin' stoppin' ya. Selling music is no different than selling popcorn. U make it good, U butter it up, you serve it to the public. If they like it, they'll BUY! Yes, one needs distributorship in order to get it to the masses, but believe me...there are other distributors out there besides 'record companies'. HEY BLOCKBUSTER, HEY HARD ROCK CAFE, HEY HEINZ...U WANT SOME FUNK WIT DAT SAUCE?!? Wanna feature this compilation of really cool Artists over your Christmas period? I'll give you 40-50%. And I'm open to any promotional needs U may have.

Gotta think outside of the BIG LINEAR BOX.

U can still have it - you just gotta want it bad enough and work it, work it, work it. Yeah, sponsorship would be nice right off the bat for support, but you gotta pay your dues to get there. Hell some Artists have been out there for 15 years before anyone takes notice. It's a hard gig man, but it's certainly NOT impossible. And really, it's no different than any other business. My business didn't really boom until it's 10th year. It's been 21 years... and the friggin train can't be stopped.

VinaBlue said:

As long as these 'artists' are in the majority the companies will milk them and pass the other artists - who do have some self respect - by.

Then things will never change. True cange can only come from within the industry by those who make the music: the artists, or at least a majority of them.




That's not enitrely true. The 'majors' may not have been majors back in the day (the 80's and before), but signing useless throw-away 'talent' is nothing new to them. It's just now that they are so big, they have even less money, space and time to spend on true artistry.




Well, there are many artists who do that and how big is their average audience? How mcuh do they struggle to make ends meet each month? How many of them need to have a job next to their music?

It's not like the majors can't play the game differently, because there are quite a few artists with reasonably balanced license deals. The problem is there are too many who don't have such a deal, nor (dare) ask for it. The result of that is that the majors invest more in the crap they own than in the art they only licensed and thus normally make less on.

There must be a way to unite the vast majority of artists. When they combine their resources they can collectively demand a change in the industry, starting with the often terrible contract practices.



---
[Edited 10/4/04 12:15pm]

Red said:

Oh no my friend, the music industry, especially in the states, has always been rotten to the core. Not the entire industry, but the biggest part of it definitly.

Abrazo said:

Oh Bullshit! I can remember the early days of the industry quite clearly, even if I am heading into my dino years. I remember when the industry was fresh, exciting and vibrant; when it was fueled by fun and enthusiasm and when intimacy and support between artist and label was real. Those WERE the good ole days. So...I'm stickin' to my original statement of 'current' state of affairs with the majors.

stay out of the old world music industry where the pointless desire for fame and lots of money eventually bites you on the butt.

be your own revolutionist - let your business decisions be guided by integrity and high spiritual principles.

prince said to make sure your spiritual house is on order FIRST.

if it truly is - you wont desire fame - or lots of money - for the true adept is happy just to be alive - the simple joy of BREATHING enough to excite his/her every second of creative expression.

are you in it for what you can get out of it or what you can GIVE to the world - and what is it exactly you want to GIVE and WHY and who has already done it before ??

it is understandable that " being on MTV " is a 'dream come true' for young people who have been raised in a society to believe that MTV actually means something.

my dream come true is living in heaven on earth.

being on MTV pales tragically in comparison.

the land of milk and honey - the musicians playground where Love Leads the Way - where HUMILITY is the foundation of ALL 'business transactions' - where LAWSUITS ARE PASSE - where the Gift of Song is ALWAYS A GIFT - not a taking or an ego boost or any of those other ILLUSIONS the MEDIA have taught you to believe count for anything.

getting caught up in the illusions of money and material possessions is the risk you take if you want to go down the path of FAME.

Life is much Sweeter on the ' Other-Side '.


IMO : BEST ADVICE PRINCE HAS EVER GIVEN.

Sorry if it's rubbed people the wrong way - but it's better you find out now that a Spiritual Life must PRECEDE your work - if indeed your work will be a GIVING THING - and your business partnerships successful.



Deep in the Centre of IT ALL - are quiet humble souls - who revere and love and give and share - with deep respect for Life and Creator/God .. with no need to broadcast anything - just to give .. with no need for praise or recognition .. they would prefer you to recognise the beauty of simplicity and humility - and charity and mercy - before they would ever hope for you to recognise THEM.




A corrupt industry is born from spiritually corrupt participants.

Break the chain..


http://www.pbphonehome.com/school.html


Peace,
PB
[Edited 10/4/04 18:06pm]

I agree - ignore the music industry until they come begging. Until then, run your own show. And when they come begging, hire five lawyers and whatever they offer, triple it.

At least, that's what I did! HAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh I hurt me.

Red said:


I agree. The industry has begun 2 change, especially with the examples Prince has set. But let's get real, it's only changed for him! You do what you can to follow his example, and maybe in 30 years you'll be earning 1,000,000 bucks a concert. One of my best friends, gave away chasing fame and fortune, and he has the ability to go all the way to the top.But he's content to 'Busk', every fucking night after a full day's work and make 50 bucks, coz that's where he's chosen 2 B ! This debate about fame and fortune, businesswise, air head soulmuse's is just a simple choice.Do what you do, be what U B.
I couldn't see Prince busking at $50 a day, because i feel he's decided through grit and determination to be what he is, a Super Mega Star.We're all different. Don't get me wrong, you may become an overnight success, and the internet is our saving grace; it's an open forum for those who choose to use it as a cheap way of marketing, just don't forget the music And that if your after big buck's you're gonna have to play with "The Man", sell your soul at the crossroads, do what U wanna B.

Red said:

Oh brother... maybe you ned to read up on how many rights by law artists used to have back in the day. And how each and every last penny is still squeezed out of their creations without them getting a penny.

sacredwarrior said:

And what exactly has Prince been doing for uhh... ohh well the last 25 years or so?

Back to the topic, which is: 'Recording Artists Need To Organise And Become Businesswise'
and not so much Prince saying "stay of the system".

I have to ask those of you who stand behind that flat "stay out of the (current) system"....

What more could you do when you are not out there all alone anymore? When you are a member of an organisation that has your creative, legal and financial back against the power of the system in which you, as an individual (as opposed to the thousands who do play along), mean nothing to them?

Sure Ab. Many Artists back in the day were robbed.

Ahhhhh....just take Little Richard for instance...and God Bless him. Last time I saw Richard was at the Grammy Awards in the lobby, pushing bibles at intermission. He was young and over the top to begin with, knew how make those keys talk, but couldn't read a contract. Didn't bother to get representation. He was taken. No denial... too many were.

But there WAS another side, in the 60's & 70's, when the music, the rags, the radio, the Art, the SCENE... was amazing. A&R was out there, trolling the clubs, the garages - everywhere scoping and developing talent. And when they had it...well we'd actually get into our cars, with trunk loads of vinyl, run into the station, breathless with excitement... and hand deliver to the jock on air - the new stuff. The jocks were personalities then, they too were involved in the growth of the industry. They spent hours listening to new music. It was EXCITING! It was GOOD.

I applaud P for getting and taking what he did out of it, especially the early years. I applaud him for being able to step back whenever he feels like it...and say Fuck U. I applaud him for trying to tear down the 'current' system. THAT'S what he's been doing for the last 25 years. Going thru the system. But he came out of that system at the other end...U know....the end... where the light is.

He's workin' it for himself, like so many OTHER Artists these days. Look at Bowie, look at the Stones.
Van Halen just revised their relationship with the label. Do U think the labels are in control of them? No way Jose, those are well greased cogs run for the band, by the band. They're dumping their labels or at least a major portion of their contracts and saying....uh uh...no more. We demote you to distributor only. No more $ off the top for what U call promotion, touring etc.. This is our business now.

Ab, the ORGANIZATION U are talking about...once existed. And there's no denying that there were people inside that robbed Artists. Unfortunately, this will always exist. Yin and Yang. But, don't be bitter. The organization you are talking about WILL exist again. It just won't be with record companies - as we know them today.
[Edited 10/5/04 16:39pm]

Abrazo said:

jeez, Sacredwarrior.. u cited prince as he was an apostle! u made me shudder!

Tell me Red, what organisation are you talking about?

And I see what you mean now; the industry used to be different in the sense that there was a totally different vibe going on. It used to be a bit more about the music back in the day than it is now. And we can hear that by comparing the tunes from then with now. Popular music used to be a lot more interesting before.

Now, music lovers are basically forced 'underground' to find more true artistry than is given on the MTV and mainstream radio. And I know there are many artists who are doing fine this way. Which is all good, but still only happening in the margins of the industry. The majority of the music buying public still depends on the mainstream outlets, controlled by the majors, owning and controlling the popular artists.

Sure, the Stones, David Bowey and Prince have a different position now, but that is after decades of getting screwed. They and we should eb glad they are still willing to make new music and give new concerts. But you know these are the exceptions in the undustry and even they, "superstars" had to go deep to get where they are today. 99% artists can't say they went through the same, except for the screwing part.

That's where the individual artist, trying to make his dreams come true, needs the organisation to back him and the business knowledge to shield him from the pitfalls.

Most other artist have at least some form of organisation on a large scale that can protect their interest better than when they are alone. When will recording artists become smart and follow the advice and experiences of their collegues in art?

----


when will recording artists become smart and not only follow the advice of those who have gone before - but learn that " what is best for all mankind " does not always equate with " personal ambition " - if ever .


I guess it depends what musician consider more important - their own ideas of " dreams come true " ( the need for fame being mainly an attention seeking thing ) - or how to use their talents to truly benefit the world at large without becoming media fodder.



Think Global - Act Local - is the key to success - of both personal ambition and what is best for everyone.. imo..


P.S. It's not too hard to see that the world is experiencing its most perilous times - musicians getting organised and business-wise is great - as long as it's for a greater cause and the Greater Good - and not just another media-induced belief system that Fame and Money and International Exposure are required to truly make a difference.




-

sacredwarrior said:

I don't think it's solely an "attention seeking" thing. If it were thenall artist would be attention seeking whores when as a matter of fact many are not.

The point of the need to have a public is that an artist without a public is like a tennis player without a racket, or a lawyer without his lawbooks. It just doesn't cut it.




Oh, but it has never been said that "fame an money" are "required" to truly make a difference.

Organising and becoming businesswise are however. Because that's - imo - the only way to truly change the industry... from within.

Just some rant from the Lefsetz column:


One thing I LOVE about the major labels is they're COMPLETELY OUT OF TOUCH WITH THEIR AUDIENCE!

Self-satisfied old execs are really no different from their predecessors like Mitch Miller. They think music is an AFTERTHOUGHT! ENTERTAINMENT!

No, what was being sold at Monterey Pop was RELIGION! You had an entire GENERATION that was REJECTING the music of its parents. Because their parents had no idea WHERE IT WAS AT!

Today's kids' parents run record companies. And these execs are as out of touch as THEIR parents were. I mean is somebody driving a 600SL and flying on a private jet really going to be in touch with a kid wearing torn clothes IM'ing all day?

Makes me sick and tired. Kids DON'T have a short attention span. That's a myth perpetrated by MTV to explain why they went from videos to long form programming. Kids would flip the channel when a bad video came up, and therefore ratings were shitty. Ergo kids have no attention span? NO, that means kids have a shit detector NONPAREIL! And that shit detector tells them that the major labels are COMPLETELY OUT OF TOUCH WITH THEM!

Oh, don't mess with me. SOME people want Jessica Simpson. Justin Timberlake even. But that's not why the value of these corporations BLEW UP! No, it was the RELIGION! Talk to execs who were around then. The albums FLEW out of the stores, without expensive marketing campaigns. The music sold itself, because it was so damn good, because it represented the audience, where it was coming from and where it was going TO!

Where the hell is Jessica Simpson going? To early motherhood and a quick divorce? Or is that Britney Spears? These two airheaded Republicans say they defend their President, right or wrong. I MIGHT give them an inch if they could explain why, but they're too interested in their hair and makeup. MEANWHILE, why is it that all the REAL acts played the DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION? Why is it that all these hypes of the major labels are not playing Springsteen's tour? Because these new acts DON'T STAND FOR ANYTHING!

Kids know a sell-out better than you do. They know when someone's doing something for the cash. They might like the catchy tune ANYWAY, but they can't IDENTIFY with the act. Because they've got MORALS, SCRUPLES! I mean could you imagine the stars of the sixties and seventies on "The Surreal Life"? Jon Anderson of Yes? The aforementioned Neil Young? What, would they sit around and discuss PHILOSOPHIES? BORING TV, but riveting music.

Nobody wants the damn album because it doesn't REPRESENT anything. It's not a STATEMENT! I don't see any problem selling Radiohead albums, even without airplay, WITHOUT ENDORSEMENTS, because they've got a plethora of believers. Look at Pink's follow-up album. Not even GOLD! Even WITH videos and SOME airplay. Because NOBODY BELIEVED IN HER AND SHE DIDN'T REPRESENT ANYTHING! Oh, she's all over the media, she's on MTV...but kids DON'T CARE!

The SUBCULTURE determines who's cool, not the major label marketing machine. Kids in high school. And these kids are into INDIE bands. Because they know the bands are doing it because they LOVE MUSIC! Because there's not that much money INVOLVED! Kind of like the old days, if you think about it. A spirit we haven't had in the business since Kurt Cobain.

The major labels are running the mainstream music business right off a cliff. P2P isn't cratering their business, it's THEM! Through MISMANAGEMENT! They want such quick profits that they've fired all the WORKERS and are JAMMING product down the audience's throat. This isn't the way you fall in love. Love is SUBTLE! That's how you fell in love with acts in the past. You were at somebody's house, they spun the disk, you started to nod your head, tap your foot, you said I LIKE THIS! And then you researched, found out more, kicked the tires, and THEN became a believer. Who can be a believer in something that's all over not only MTV, but E! and EXTRA and every magazine known to man. There's no exploratory discovery process. It's a TURN-OFF!

Advertisers sell PRODUCTS! They're not interested in SOUL!

Then again, there's more soul in the iPod than the new music being purveyed. Because no corners were cut. The consumer believes that every effort was made to create the most cutting edge product POSSIBLE! Therefore, they don't MIND that it's expensive. Because ALL great shit is expensive.

I don't want to hear about you defraying costs. The kind of exposure advertisers give you is the kind that kills acts. Just like MTV kills acts. But worse. Because at least on MTV you're not tainted by association with a greedy corporation selling something you don't NEED!

How could these people be SO OUT OF TOUCH!

I don't want to hear it's like the TV business. Music WAS NEVER LIKE THE TV BUSINESS! Music is something you listen to, not watch!

As Eddie Rosenblatt once told me, movies, when done right, are larger than life. But rock music, when done right, is LIFE ITSELF!

But the acts being purveyed no longer fit this paradigm.

Maybe Geffen Records went under because they ONLY sold rock, but that doesn't make the aphorism untrue. Music is about SOUL FULFILLMENT! All selling has to be IN SERVICE to this. If not, you're TAINTING THE MUSIC!

sacredwarrior said:


Abrazo said:




I can see both your points of view:I think that as an Artist in the public eye that if you can be a good role model,it would be a very important thing,for young and old.
As we live in a capitalist society it's a little hard to break the trend.The Art of being a "spiritual Artist", who can hang their soul on a stage and not take on all the trappings of fame and glorification,and spout words of profound life changing wisdom might may take hundred's of years to come about Then again people are looking towards different marketing stategies, so they don't get chewed on so much by "The Man"(Record companies), so they get more cake to take home.In the Now, and at the moment and 4 the time being ; Music in Western culture is a Businees, if you want to be part of it.You don't have to, you can upload to Soundclick, play at local gigs, keep a low profile, once again it's really your own choice.Mega bucks,Record deals fame and fortune don't just fall out of the sky,people work really hard to get there,and expect to be reimbursed for their efforts.I've kinda lost the thread here.Enjoy doing what turns you on!
As long as you play and make some good sounds,or even bad! the world's gotta be a better place.(preferably good is better )
P.S. sacredwarrior=>

Could you break that down for me please Sounds interesting but i dont quite know what you mean

Red said:

Yeh, it's weird to remember the Hippies of the sixties who wanted to break the 'system' and make it 'better', have evolved into the 'Yuppie' Exec's & power brokers of today.Of course some are still sticking to their guns, but i find it interesting to see evolution & the wearing down of values as time takes it's toll.Slowly things are changing for the better. There's a theory in busineess that when you reach a certain point of wealth ,you've basically transcended the 'system',as "Money Don't Matter Tonight".The point being, get some of these Super Rich people Enlightened to the fact, and get them on side for the young, and older , or just the Fucking active Artist's who wanna be seen, and heard; as money is a toy that means little more than, as you said;"the Light at the end of the tunnel".Which aint such a little thing.Maybe we're watching this happen right now as Prince is coming out the end of the tunnel and He'll create a new World for comercial Artist's as we know it!

Red said:

" Music is about SOUL FULFILLMENT! All selling has to be IN SERVICE to this. If not, you're TAINTING THE MUSIC! "


..and thank you very much goodnight that's a wrap ..

love to see who's eager to sign up to a major and do the shallow fame and fortune thing cuz it's their " dream " after reading that article.


MTV ?? bwahahahaah - make me laugh !!





abrazo - dude - how many people qualifies as an audience ? - and of what mindset ?





flux - think global act local just means do what you do as if you were doing it for the world but do it locally.





xo

Red said:

sacredwarrior said:




Thanks P.B.,i thought as much. That's what's happening in my neighborhood, and i can't see myself, or my friends changing our ways after 20 years! Nothing wrong with being a street musician in my mind!

Red said:

I think that was because they sold out to Universal...

FLUX said:

Uploading to soundclick, playing local gigs, keeping a low profile ... you still need to be businesswise if you don't want to get screwed.

But it's true, music is a business in Western culture. Then again, it has always been a business in Western culture where art is valued in money. It may have been MORE about the art back in the day, but it was still also about business.

No matter how you look at it, that's inherent to Western culture.