Hi Everyone!

Can anyone please suggest ways to begin a solo and prolong it for a lengthy time?

I have used different patterns but I can not seems to get a whole solo to work together.

i.e it sounds good is some parts and bad or out of rhytm in other?

Thank you!

Eddie Van Halen compared his solos to falling down stairs. And it holds true on just about every solo he's done... bump a bump, slide, bump, stop, bump, skiddd.

The solo is a journey or exploration through the song. If you have a short space to fill, then whip it out and slap them in the face with it. If you have a lot of time to fill, then the previous application will leave you deflated and uninteresting after the first 4 measures.

Think of it like a drive. There's hills, valleys, turns, stops, bumpy fast parts, rolling slow parts. Rather than tell you, "slow | slow | fast | high up on the neck fast | hold a long note going out " I would tell you to just take your time, explore... when you find a passage that you like, repeat it a few times, changing it a little each time maybe, and then hold the last note a few beats to say "I'm done with this part, I'm moving on".

A famous blues guitarist said, "play a lick, scratch your chin, play a lick, scratch your chin" which is to say, don't have note diarrhea where you just go and go and go and NEVER pause. The listener appreciates space in a solo, to reflect what you've already played.

Lastly, on that phrase repeating stuff, once you move away from it, it's cool to sometimes return to it. This applies if you have just some insanely long space of time for solos.

Now, as far as where on the neck to play... I always (to a fault) start low and work my way up to the top and then hold the last note high and boom. that's my solo. On the longer tunes, I vary it... again, just to keep the party interesting. Start high, screaming solo, hold the last note, then slide down an octave, move around slowly, since I've already done the high-screaming shit, and then slowly work my way back up.

But that's just me. I could be wrong.

Timely post pbs, i've been trying to record a track for a couple of weeks.It starts of with clean tone,then i kick the distortion button and are finding my original idea; starting in jazz mode, then crancking into a rock phase, causing me to have to re write the whole thing.At first all seemed well, but going from clean to distorted sound is really hard as i've got some hammering lick's goin on, which are fine with a warm clean tone, but when i play basically the same chord structure with distortion(crunchy Hendrix tone), the hammering is sounding stupid.So i'm re writing the whole thing. Lot's of fun, but i'm really sweating over this.Figured it out just about, but aint no easy ride.AS for a solo, iwant to work from D,in the 5th fret , up to D in the 10 th,as the tune starts on a bar chord, D minor, in the 10 th fret. Structure, timing & all the permutations i've tried means i need to let it lay for a while, as i'm thinking too much,and reading what OTAN said has fitted in with my conclusion that in the faster 'Rock' section, to leave spaces , as distortion, lingers and is sounding saner without too much hammering or trilling.I'll leave all that 4 the solo.Sorry contemplating while i write.In the end, ya hear the whole thing in your head, (after playing your solo 50 or so times),and let it naturally flow out of yourself.Easier said than done.Other times a solo can just pop out like you've laid a turd....

PBS said:

Yeh you have to play the correct scale of notes in your solo corresponding to what key the chords are in.Then the thing will fit and cement together logically, and sound sweet.you may have to consult some music books or take a seminar from one of Otan's theory threads

Rather than regurgitating a bunch of licks, think of one complete musical statement.
It does not have to be a long or complex one just a complete one. Then begin to alter it.
Either melodically, retaining the original rhythm or rhythmically, retaining the original melody.
You could look at it as variations on a theme.

Or consider yourself as having a conversation with the listener or more accurately telling the listener a story.
The lines that you play would be analogous to the sentences you would be speaking.

As Otan pointed out, use the spaces. Music consists of notes AND rests.
The rests are as important as the notes...sometimes even more so.

All of this is easier said than done.
However if you start to develop this as a part of your "solo" mindset now,
you should become quite satisfied with the results over time.

tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...rmusic.htm

ORrrrr,

you could just flail away like an 8 year old kid:
http://www.compfused.com/...tlink/212/

otan said:

I saw this kid or a similar mini guitarbot at a NAMM show.
One of the saddest things i've ever seen. His dad was
off to the side of the stage while this kid had to stand
there and play for 30 minutes at a time throughout the
course of the day. This kid looked so bored and played
with zero emotion.

Bad scene.

tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...rmusic.htm

ORrrrr,

you could just flail away like an 8 year old kid:
http://www.compfused.com/...tlink/212/
Woh! I'm hoping they'll get him of the Ritolin real soon
Abut ten years ago there was an 8 year old blues Guitarist in Australia called Nathan Cavalleri.
His strat was much the same size as him, but this boy could play; watching the other lad reminded of him.He played with B.B.king when he was out here.I'll have to do a search and see what became of him. T'was a brilliant guitarist

Vibrato and bends top my list of what can make a solo work or fall on it's face. I could listen to Freddie King play the same 5 notes endlessly because he makes the guitar sing. Rhythm is also very important when laying down a solo, you gotta play off the beat and I hear to many folks that don't connect those dots. Solo's don't need to be virtuoso to be compelling, IMO most aren't. I think the blues are a great thing to really delve into, I play lots of scales but the pentatonic is always my starting point.

FLUX said:

If you read down in the comment section following the clip you'll learn that the kid in the video is actually 14yrs old & was 13 when the footage was recorded. It would be interesting to
see the event in it's entirety. Another guitarist in the band posted that his playing is much better than his wank....eh...solo spot, I certainly hope so. Y'know the 90's spawned a few
"guitar prodigies". Once the novelty of their youth + chops wears off, they never seem to hear much about them. Anybody remember Thomas McRocklin (McLaughlin)?

Dude, I don't care if he's 13, 8 or 2 - that's some damn sloppy playing!
Anyway, my 2 cts on playing a solo: don't make the mistake of playing everything just once. This goes for notes AND licks. repeat a note a couple of times every now and then. Or play a liock, play something else, come back to the lick and expand on it, etc. The reason you run out of ideas during a solo is often that you fail to expand on them. Also, have a clear idea of what you want to do rhythmicly (damn how do you spell that?). Putting an emphasis on the one every eight bars (P-Funk style) will give your solo a different flow from playing with a more bluesy emphasis on the two and four (think thye music to Miami Vice!). And stop soloing when you're done.

oh. and set your shit on fire when you're done.

JUST DO IT..,NOW, OR WHENEVER IT HAPPENS.HAVE A LISTEN TO 'OTAN' OR 'THE AUDIENCE' .HIT THEIR LINKS ON THIS PAGE AND YOU'LL HEAR SOME MAGIC! (HIT MINE 2 IF YOU DARE)

FLUX said:

oh man you're too kind. I wouldn't call it magic so much as I'd just call it an amazing overflowing of talent.















I kid.

The only way for you to come with imaginative solos, IMO, is don't follow any advice of anyone here. It's just what works for them and only for them, in the best cases. The worst thing i can imagine is someone saying, hey it sounds like hendrix, slash, otan, or joe satriani. it sucks bigtiem in my book to do something with my heart that sounds like it come from other entity. So my advice is fuck the advices. EVEN mine

7salles said:

I gotta disagree, there is alot to be learned from other perspectives, yeah spirituality applies with any expression, but you gotta know your history, and what put players from point A to Point B. You have to have a place to build from. It's like saying don't listen to JB to learn how the beat works. The more you take in the more you can express IMO. Ignoring it is missing out.

Just an opinion

FLUX said:

Dude.

(did you get that $20?)

Sincere thanks.

tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...rmusic.htm

Well, i think hearing people like Prince, hendrix, satch and others, they teach you musically all you need to know. by sound, and not words, step by step bs, it's like IMO it will never be natural if you think too much about what you are doing. i think music should be spontaneous, at least it is for me and always will be.
[This message was edited Tue Jul 20 19:56:57 2004 by 7salles]

7salles said:

But someone came to this forum asking advice on how to solo, when someone asks for help I think you take the opportunity to teach. In this context words are all you and I have to offer.Given that this is the medium we are presented with I think words are as effective as sounds. If your path is different embrace it, but no one else should be judged for the path they choose to take. People learn in many different ways, this is just one of them.

Kevlar said:

And besides - I DO preface all my jimma-jam with "this is what works for me..."

I think everything I wrote was more of an emotional/strategic guideline; not some note-by-note transcription of successful solos. The original question was something like, "how do you do a solo because mine get boring after awhile" - so all these tips are methods by which you, the player, could expand your library of 5 or 6 licks. That's all my solos are - connected licks - 6 or 7 tops, just played in different places on the neck, at different speeds, using maybe just a slice of a lick here and the whole lick again later... that's all.

But there's certainly no harm in learning solos, note for note, if purely for the purpose of learning what another artist was thinking when they recorded their awesome solo, [EDIT:] because hell, if you were to dissect my masterful soloing, you'd find a chunk of "Voodoo Chile", a slice of "Let's Go Crazy" and certainly some "Pride and Joy" with a hint of "Cult of Personality" mixed in with "Back in Black".

Honest. Those are the cornerstones of all my solos.

Sad. But true.

I call it "Pentatonia"
[This message was edited Tue Jul 20 20:15:03 2004 by otan]

Kevlar said:

"But someone came to this forum asking advice on how to solo, when someone asks for help I think you take the opportunity to teach. In this context words are all you and I have to offer.Given that this is the medium we are presented with I think words are as effective as sounds. If your path is different embrace it, but no one else should be judged for the path they choose to take. People learn in many different ways, this is just one of them."

Well, it is MY advice
My advice for a guitar player is not go around asking how they should play.
the scales are all he should ask, questions about skills, picking. But how to construct a solo? there are manual to how to construct a song too? SO hel will be what? The king of the cliches? like it or not, it's my advice.

7salles said:

I understand what you're saying 7Salles, but in advanced art school, you spend half your time painting copies of art from the masters, so you can better understand how they achieved certain aspects of their craft. It's not intended to teach mimicry, but to help them learn things from other people. If you focus inward, solely, you'll end up re-inventing the wheel a LOT. I understand your quest for individuality, but at the same time, there is definitely something to be said about influences.

Stevie Ray Vaughan: Albert King, Jimi Hendrix
Jimi Hendrix: Chuck Berry, Albert King
Eddie Van Halen: Eric Clapton
Prince: Santana

Behind every GREAT, groundbreaking guitarist is a long list of influences, where those players did take the time to learn solos, note-for-note, and then dissect that solo and find out what makes it tick, what makes it a better solo than most? What makes them a better guitarist than most. It's not always divine intervention or sheer genius, as music critics would want you to believe.

A lot of times it's just somebody learning all the tricks from another guitar player or two, and then blending it together and adding what they DO hear in their head. That's all.

"But what about Satriani or Vai, or guitarists like that? Their style is so unique, it HAD to come from shutting themselves in a room without external influences". I disagree. Vai played with Zappa when he was 16, right? You don't think Zappa showed him how to break outside of the norm?

SO while you're right - struggle to find your own style and your own approach to playing solos, or writing songs, it sure doesn't hurt to study the masters, and talk to your peers to find out how THEY invent the wheel.

If ANYTHING, the truly groundbreaking guitarists are indeed those who learn all the rules and tricks of the trade, and then disregard them. Like they say, you can't break any rules if you don't KNOW the rules to begin with.
[This message was edited Wed Jul 21 5:26:15 2004 by otan]

Ah, well i know you are right and i won´t argue about this because i don´t have arguments, I learned tons of solos note by note, and i am sure it influenced me, hell i even learned solos from bands I hate (Iron Maiden), of course it all helped me better my playing, but it's just that, in my world, and in my head, its very strange to see someone asking on a guitar forum how to construct a good solo, it does not bother me, but i think it aint the way to go. Its just like i can ask a guy, how you do this arpeggio? or what scale is this? show me this lick! But how to apply it is totally up to me. but what I knwo anyways? I end up talking like i mastered the instrument 20 years ago, since i play guitar since fifteen and i am only twenty one.

no no - in the end you and I are saying the same thing:
Its just like i can ask a guy, how you do this arpeggio? or what scale is this? show me this lick! But how to apply it is totally up to me.

said:

theAudiencesaid:

Hey1 i thought we agreed on $50

Otan Said

I'd have 2 agree ..

7salles said:

wow, i'm just a newborn with the guitar but it's good to hear/read stuff like this. Ever since I started I've been listening and watching EVERYONE.. songs I hate, and used to hate, just to see if i can break it down to basics. I come from a Soul/hip hop background and I don't want to mention any of the songs I hate and risk turning off potential teachers but since you already said Iron Maiden, its just really hit me how much more I appreciate certain songs now even though I wouldn't say I "like" them per se.. Also, diggin in the crates for Zeppelin and Pink Floyd etc actually has brought me new ones that I do like... Guess it's part of the journey huh?

Otan makes me piss my pants sometimes. I seriously think you should write a music book for beginers.

Your phrasing cracks me up but I can't help but think it's perfect for a beginer to understand and entertain.

Thanks everyone for your help on this topic, any more just keep them comming!

On a serious,and sincere note pbs, backtrack through the threads in this Forum,and check out the posts of people who've uploaded their music to 'soundclick' ,or 'New Funk Order' ; or just uploads in general .There are at least thirty world class Guitarists and other types of muso's posting here, and having a listen to them would be an inspiration and real brain food.

Thanks for the nice words and shit.

I gab so much now because I play so little. I'd rather be unable to write because I'm so busy cranking out the songs, but, time being what it is, it's easier to ramble about stuff that I've done, instead of hepping you to stuff that I'm DOING.

But, patience. Maybe sometime soon. Maybe. Who knows. Sleep - it's so overrated really.

You had yours yet Kelly? I'm thinking the doctor messed up the date, and I've got about a week or two before I say farewell to sleep, "O" time, functioning... I'm going to shave my head just to cut down on shower time!! That's 5 extra minutes of SLEEP.

It's all I think about really.

(edit: that last part is to Yamomma, who's expecting his second child around the same time me and my wife are expecting - something like six weeks from now...)
[This message was edited Mon Jul 26 20:49:44 2004 by otan]